The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1201  
Old 03-15-2018, 02:41 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades CA, United States
Posts: 4,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Wording or not, the Queen has officially given consent. The document from 2011 did not have trusty and well beloved, the flourishes would be on the charter. Of course the tabloids are trying to create a scandal, implying the queen is throwing shade at Meghan without presenting the Will and Kate document. If there was a problem with Meghan the queen would have never given consent. Samantha and Nikkai Priddy can't be happy now because it shows their hit pieces on Meghan didn't work; and that is something to cheer about.
If there were a problem Meghan would never have been at Sandringham at Christmas nor at the Commonwealth service, not so? In spades the Queen is letting it be known that Meghan is A-OK by her. It's why Meghan is being so unusually embraced, in fact, in my view, to push-back on the nay-sayers.
__________________

__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
  #1202  
Old 03-15-2018, 03:07 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Woodbridge, United States
Posts: 894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
We have the more detailed document from 2018 for Harry and it’s basically word for word of William’s charter version minus “trusty and well beloved”

Seems odd at least to me to omit those words in the detailed document only to add them in the charter.
We don't have Harry's Charter version yet. Both Harry and William's PRIVY version which Harry's was release today are identical with the William's privy version.

The Charter should be released closer to the wedding. At that time comparisons can be made about Harry's Charter document vs. Williams.
__________________

  #1203  
Old 03-15-2018, 03:24 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,908
Royal Reporter just said on Twitter that according to the Clerk of the Privy Council this is the official version released today.

It’s the Instrument of Consent.
  #1204  
Old 03-15-2018, 03:26 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
My understanding is Catherine has always been Catherine. It has been the tabloids that began referencing her as Kate. There is a video of Catherine when she was a child (quite young, maybe 8 or 10) where you can hear someone calling to her and using Catherine (not Kate).

Miss Middleton used Kate and Catherine. From the 2011 Official Royal Wedding website
Should I use Kate or Catherine?

Miss Middleton uses both names equally, and she has never expressed a preference for either Catherine or Kate since her engagement to Prince William. Catherine is the name that Miss Middleton grew up with in her family, and Kate is the name that she tends to use in a work context.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Here is the 2011 Privy for William and Kate

https://privycouncil.independent.gov...9-feb-2011.pdf

Here is Harry and Meghan's from yesterday.

http://privycouncil.independent.gov....ess-Part-1.pdf

Again, folks keep referring to the charter which is a different document. That was released a few days before the wedding. I assume the same will happen with Harry and Meghan.

Here is the charter for William and Kate

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYV0lAhUQAAqrxJ.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYV028kWkAM3Yys.jpg:large
Quote:
Originally Posted by monica_ View Post
Difference is, 2011 Privy does not include detailed version of the consent. But today's order has this version with very similar wording of the 2011 William and Kate's charter except these mentioned adjectives.

The consent charter for Prince William and Kate Middleton

Elizabeth the Second by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith

To all to whom these Presents shall come, Greeting!

WHEREAS by an Act of Parliament intituled "An Act for the better regulating the future Marriages of the Royal Family", it is amongst other things enacted "that no descendant of the body of His late Majesty King George the Second, Male or Female, (other than the issue of Princesses who have married, or may hereafter marry, into Foreign Families,) shall be capable of contracting Matrimony without the previous consent of His Majesty, His Heirs or Successors, signified under the Great Seal, and declared in Council":

NOW KNOW YE that We have consented and do by these Presents signify Our Consent to the contracting of Matrimony between Our Most Dearly Beloved Grandson Prince William Arthur Philip Louis of Wales, K.G., and Our Trusty and Well-beloved Catherine Elizabeth Middleton

IN WITNESS whereof We have caused Our Great Seal to be affixed to these Presents

GIVEN at Our Court at Buckingham Palace the ninth day of February Two thousand and Eleven in the Sixtieth year of Our Reign

BY THE QUEEN HERSELF SIGNED WITH HER OWN HAND

The full version of the consent for Prince Harry and Meghan Markle

ELIZABETH THE SECOND, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, To all to whom these Presents shall come, Greeting!

WHEREAS by an Act of Parliament entitled "Succession to the Crown Act 2013", it is amongst other things enacted that "a person who (when the person marries) is one of the 6 persons next in the line of succession to the Crown must obtain the consent of Her Majesty before marrying", such consent to be signified under the Great Seal, declared in Council, and recorded in the books of the Privy Council:

NOW KNOW YE that We have consented and do by these Presents signify Our Consent to the contracting of Matrimony between Our Most Dearly Beloved Grandson Prince Henry Charles Albert David of Wales, K.C.V.O., and Rachel Meghan Markle.

In Witness whereof We have caused Our Great Seal to be affixed to these Presents.

Given at Our Court at Buckingham Palace the Fourteenth day of March 2018 in the Sixty-seventh year of Our Reign.

BY THE QUEEN HERSELF SIGNED WITH HER OWN HAND


I am only being speculative, but perhaps the language "our trusty and well-beloved" is reserved for Queen Elizabeth's subjects.
  #1205  
Old 03-15-2018, 03:34 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The consent charter for Prince William and Kate Middleton

Elizabeth the Second by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen Head of the Commonwealth Defender of the Faith

To all to whom these Presents shall come, Greeting!

WHEREAS by an Act of Parliament intituled "An Act for the better regulating the future Marriages of the Royal Family", it is amongst other things enacted "that no descendant of the body of His late Majesty King George the Second, Male or Female, (other than the issue of Princesses who have married, or may hereafter marry, into Foreign Families,) shall be capable of contracting Matrimony without the previous consent of His Majesty, His Heirs or Successors, signified under the Great Seal, and declared in Council":

NOW KNOW YE that We have consented and do by these Presents signify Our Consent to the contracting of Matrimony between Our Most Dearly Beloved Grandson Prince William Arthur Philip Louis of Wales, K.G., and Our Trusty and Well-beloved Catherine Elizabeth Middleton

IN WITNESS whereof We have caused Our Great Seal to be affixed to these Presents

GIVEN at Our Court at Buckingham Palace the ninth day of February Two thousand and Eleven in the Sixtieth year of Our Reign

BY THE QUEEN HERSELF SIGNED WITH HER OWN HAND

The full version of the consent for Prince Harry and Meghan Markle

ELIZABETH THE SECOND, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Our other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, To all to whom these Presents shall come, Greeting!

WHEREAS by an Act of Parliament entitled "Succession to the Crown Act 2013", it is amongst other things enacted that "a person who (when the person marries) is one of the 6 persons next in the line of succession to the Crown must obtain the consent of Her Majesty before marrying", such consent to be signified under the Great Seal, declared in Council, and recorded in the books of the Privy Council:

NOW KNOW YE that We have consented and do by these Presents signify Our Consent to the contracting of Matrimony between Our Most Dearly Beloved Grandson Prince Henry Charles Albert David of Wales, K.C.V.O., and Rachel Meghan Markle.

In Witness whereof We have caused Our Great Seal to be affixed to these Presents.

Given at Our Court at Buckingham Palace the Fourteenth day of March 2018 in the Sixty-seventh year of Our Reign.

BY THE QUEEN HERSELF SIGNED WITH HER OWN HAND


I am only being speculative, but perhaps the language "our trusty and well-beloved" is reserved for Queen Elizabeth's subjects.
That's what I was wondering as well. Meghan cannot be 'her' trusty and well-beloved anything as she isn't the queen's (subject).
  #1206  
Old 03-15-2018, 03:58 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 7,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
That's what I was wondering as well. Meghan cannot be 'her' trusty and well-beloved anything as she isn't the queen's (subject).
I fail to see why "trusty and well-beloved" would have anything to do with nationality or citizenship. Can anyone confirm that is the case ?
  #1207  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:01 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
It's interesting some are trying to make an issue out of few words and trying to use that as an indication of the Queen's feelings towards Meghan. The Queen has made her feelings regarding Meghan plenty clear by including in events that has not included fiances or fiancees in the past both as family and in official events.
  #1208  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:31 PM
Soula's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Somewhere in southern Australia, Australia
Posts: 228
I think the omission of those few words speaks volumes
__________________
Soula
  #1209  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:33 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,425
Is there a version of the Privy Council consent that was issued for the Duke of Gloucester and his Danish bride anywhere on the Forum that could be used for a comparison, or Prince and Princess Michael when they married?
  #1210  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:37 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,776
My take on the wording is that there is nothing really to be read into the lack of the term "our beloved and trusty" when it comes to the Instrument of Consent.

What we're forgetting here is that HM, The Queen and her Privy Council have issued this document as part of something that is required from the monarch for Harry to marry Meghan. This is issued by The Queen and not Granny. We have no problems accepting the fact that the monarch is apolitical when it comes to government matters but we fail to see that this Instrument of Consent is also a very legal document where the Queen's personal feelings have to be set aside. In order to not give her consent to the marriage, she would have to have a strong *legal* reason to withhold her consent.

The most logical explanation, to me, is the the "our beloved and trusty" adjectives denote a subject of Her Majesty's realm. It has absolutely nothing to do with her personal feelings whatsoever.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
  #1211  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:37 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soula View Post
I think the omission of those few words speaks volumes
Out of curiosity, do you think the Queen personally writes these consents or is it a mere formality by the time the consent is actually given?
  #1212  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:43 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Out of curiosity, do you think the Queen personally writes these consents or is it a mere formality by the time the consent is actually given?
She signs in her own hand so she certainly reads it. You’re not suggesting someone at the Privy Council office took it upon themselves to add ‘trusty and well beloved’ to the official consent?

The BRF does everything by the book.
  #1213  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:46 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
She signs in her own hand so she certainly reads it. You’re not suggesting someone at the Privy Council office took it upon themselves to add ‘trusty and well beloved’ to the official consent?

The BRF does everything by the book.
I'm suggesting she didn't personally draft either one. I'm sure they have someone else in the background to drafts these things up. I don't know about everyone else here, but when I read a document, I read for the substance, which the consent to marriage here. An embellishment is certainly something that I wouldn't think about if it wasn't already there.

I don't know why they specifically left those words off this time. I'm merely suggesting that I don't think the Queen took it upon herself to publicly sly a woman she has included in events she didn't have to both as family and as a future working royal. Perhaps the person that drafted is new and didn't look at the prior consent close enough. Perhaps that is something that will later be added to the scroll. Who knows. The public announcement from BP is the same. But for some to suggest this says a lot about the Queen's personal feelings is quite a stretch when we've seen actions from the Queen that says the exact opposite.
  #1214  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:47 PM
Soula's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Somewhere in southern Australia, Australia
Posts: 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Out of curiosity, do you think the Queen personally writes these consents or is it a mere formality by the time the consent is actually given?
The Queen is meticulous and not prone to making mistakes
__________________
Soula
  #1215  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:51 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Bellevue, United States
Posts: 1,395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soula View Post
I think the omission of those few words speaks volumes
I don't. As AlowVera points out the document matches the wording used in William and Catherine's.

The words "trusty and well-beloved" only appear in William and Catherine's own copy, issued on April 21, 2011, just eight days before their wedding.

If Henry and Meghan's copy - which presumably will be issued days before their wedding - doesn't include those words then AND ONLY THEN will we have reason to wonder.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...Catherine.html
  #1216  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:56 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Torrance, United States
Posts: 5,194
[QUOTE=Curryong;2082190]Is there a version of the Privy Council consent that was issued for the Duke of Gloucester and his Danish bride anywhere on the Forum that could be used for a comparison, or Prince and Princess Michael when they married?[/QUOTE

I'd love to see it as well Curryong but I doubt that these documents are available on line anywhere considering that these weddings were decades ago.
  #1217  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:58 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,908
Harry’s Instrument of Consent was already released today. That’s it.
  #1218  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:58 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 15,835
Everything so far has pointed to the fact that The Queen and the family has officially embraced Meghan as Harry’s fiancée and future wife.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
  #1219  
Old 03-15-2018, 04:58 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,218
Can I be a bit picky please?

Can we not refer to the Council by the single word 'privy' as that means a toilet.

The single word 'Council' means a council while the full body that agreed to this is the Privy Council.

Unless there were two council meetings this week there were four people plus the Queen at the meeting where this consent was given. That is not unusual by the way - four or five out of the over 600 members.

I think people are reading way too much into the wording of this document ... this is the 'consent' but the formal pretty document that will go on the wall somewhere possibly will be far more detailed in its wording.

One difference in wording I have picked up - for William it was 'our dearly beloved grandson' but for Harry it was 'my dearly beloved grandson'. Has something happened to Philip that hasn't been made public yet???? or is it simply a difference in terminology due to Philip's retirement ... or something else - because Harry is the spare compared to William the heir? or ...
  #1220  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:01 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
One difference in wording I have picked up - for William it was 'our dearly beloved grandson' but for Harry it was 'my dearly beloved grandson'. Has something happened to Philip that hasn't been made public yet???? or is it simply a difference in terminology due to Philip's retirement ... or something else - because Harry is the spare compared to William the heir? or ...
I thought the monarch is always we or our rather than singular?
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Meghan Markle: Future Tiaras and Jewels soapstar Royal Jewels General Discussion 197 01-09-2020 10:29 AM
Meghan Markle: Family and Background - November 2017-May 2018 soapstar The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family 3418 06-19-2018 01:39 PM
Meghan Markle: Wedding Dress Suggestions and Musings soapstar Royal Style File 1819 05-19-2018 06:22 AM
Meghan Markle: Wedding Tiara and Jewelry Suggestions and Musings Tilia C. Royal Jewels General Discussion 999 05-19-2018 06:02 AM




Popular Tags
america american archie mountbatten-windsor asia birth britain britannia british british royal family buckingham palace camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles carolin china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing clarence house colorblindness crown jewels customs doge of venice dresses duchess of sussex duke of cambridge duke of sussex edward vii elizabeth ii family life fashion and style gemstones genetics gradenigo harry and meghan hello! henry viii history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs japan japanese imperial family japan history kensington palace king edward vii king juan carlos lili mountbatten-windsor list of rulers medical meghan markle monarchist movements monarchists monarchy names nara period plantinum jubilee pless politics prince harry queen elizabeth ii queen victoria royal ancestry solomon j solomon spanish royal family st edward sussex suthida tradition unfinished portrait united states of america wales welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:27 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×