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  #261  
Old 03-04-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by soapstar View Post
I don't get this from the article at all. She applauded Meghan for speaking out about women's issues, but then says Meghan has to be careful because many prefer the royals wives to be silent and not get involved in political causes. And this part of the article sounds like a slam at Meghan's critics.



Sure the article was a little snarky, but I thought it had some interesting points and thought her hardest dig was at Kate (she calls her a Stepford wife).
I read the article similarly. I don't think her point was that Meghan can't speak, but rather that Meghan is wrong in saying that Women in Britain have a voice.... which actually, I think Johnson missed the point that Meghan was making. Women do have a voice, in Britain, in the US, in much (if not all of the Western world); they just don't necessarily use it, and aren't necessarily listened to when they do use it.

I actually find Johnson's article a bit ironic... Meghan's saying women need to speak and be listened to, and Johnson is completely missing the point because she's not actually listening to what Meghan's saying.
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  #262  
Old 03-04-2018, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post
Yes...another column by a white woman who thinks that the black girl from America should have kept her mouth shut and just let the white folk speak!

Amazing! It is mostly women who are the hardest on other women! Sometimes women are their own worst enemy!

Meghan is too self-assured, self-confident, intelligent and too good a public speaker for a black woman and some people can't help but pull her down!
That's not at all what the article says. The author seems to caution Meghan as she comes across as an American feminist being very (too) outspoken before she is even a member of the firm and that's not necessarily the way to warm the British public to her (and public opinion is important even though royal families shouldn't strive to be 'popular'). All 'married in' members of the family need to know their place (as well as those born into the family as the elder is always more prominent than the younger).

I agree with the writer in that Meghan should try to show a little more sensitivity (and not come across as an American (=outsider) know-all) while she is only at the early stages of her new role as (a future) royal. There are many years to come in which she can advocate for topics close to her heart while always keeping in mind which institution she represents. I have no doubt that she will be a great advocate for these issues, so best to take the time to get to know Britain and it's people and in that way make sure that the people will listen as to one of their own. Right now, they can easily dismiss what she is saying as irrelevant/uninformed.

So far it seems that the transition is on the one hand rather easy as she feels very comfortable in the public eye (and seems to have found a purpose for life in her new role) but on the other hand not as easy as she needs to learn when and how to advocate for issues that are important in British society (step 1: really get to know British society). Harry even stressed the importance of getting to the root cause of issues and doing so takes a lot of time. And according to William; that's one of their advantages; they do have time.
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  #263  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:00 PM
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I just don't agree that women aren't being heard. Women are in all levels of jobs, military, government....if they weren't being heard and listened to they'd all still be in the 'secretarial pool'.

I'm really not sure what it is that women should be doing that they are not already able to do. Speaking of the western world ...not countries where women don't have rights.


LaRae
  #264  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I read the article similarly. I don't think her point was that Meghan can't speak, but rather that Meghan is wrong in saying that Women in Britain have a voice.... which actually, I think Johnson missed the point that Meghan was making. Women do have a voice, in Britain, in the US, in much (if not all of the Western world); they just don't necessarily use it, and aren't necessarily listened to when they do use it.

I actually find Johnson's article a bit ironic... Meghan's saying women need to speak and be listened to, and Johnson is completely missing the point because she's not actually listening to what Meghan's saying.
You have a great point here.

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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I just don't agree that women aren't being heard. Women are in all levels of jobs, military, government....if they weren't being heard and listened to they'd all still be in the 'secretarial pool'.
As a female who is the supervisor and works alongside many men... I can see your point but can't really agree. I have to work extra hard to be heard on a daily basis despite my status. In fact many think I am in the position I am in because I am a woman and they had to meet some absorb quota. They think I can't hear them but I hear every word. So yes it is important for women to stand up for themselves and speak up.
  #265  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:12 PM
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That's not at all what the article says. The author seems to caution Meghan as she comes across as an American feminist being very (too) outspoken before she is even a member of the firm and that's not necessarily the way to warm the British public to her (and public opinion is important even though royal families shouldn't strive to be 'popular'). All 'married in' members of the family need to know their place (as well as those born into the family as the elder is always more prominent than the younger).

I agree with the writer in that Meghan should try to show a little more sensitivity (and not come across as an American (=outsider) know-all) while she is only at the early stages of her new role as (a future) royal. There are many years to come in which she can advocate for topics close to her heart while always keeping in mind which institution she represents. I have no doubt that she will be a great advocate for these issues, so best to take the time to get to know Britain and it's people and in that way make sure that the people will listen as to one of their own. Right now, they can easily dismiss what she is saying as irrelevant/uninformed.

So far it seems that the transition is on the one hand rather easy as she feels very comfortable in the public eye (and seems to have found a purpose for life in her new role) but on the other hand not as easy as she needs to learn when and how to advocate for issues that are important in British society (step 1: really get to know British society). Harry even stressed the importance of getting to the root cause of issues and doing so takes a lot of time. And according to William; that's one of their advantages; they do have time.

American feminist being too outspoken.....she should know her place....American outsider!
All sly comments which means that Meghan should just be content to keep silent and disappear behind her 'betters'. Whatever!
  #266  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
As a female who is the supervisor to many men... I can see your point but can't really agree. I have to work extra hard to be heard on a daily basis despite my status. In fact many think I am in the position I am in because I am a woman and they had to meet some absorb quota. They think I can't hear them but I hear every word. So yes it is important for women to stand up for themselves and speak up.
Being a tall white middle-aged man is still the profile of those who are 'automatically' (unconsciously?) best listened to. The more you deviate from this prototype the harder it can be to be heard/listened to. That's not to say that others' voices are not considered important but it takes more effort for them to be heard.
  #267  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:18 PM
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Theodore Roosevelt — ‘People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care ...
  #268  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by soapstar View Post
I don't get this from the article at all. She applauded Meghan for speaking out about women's issues, but then says Meghan has to be careful because many prefer the royals wives to be silent and not get involved in political causes. And this part of the article sounds like a slam at Meghan's critics.



Sure the article was a little snarky, but I thought it had some interesting points and thought her hardest dig was at Kate (she calls her a Stepford wife).
That's funny because I felt the hardest dig was at Kate as well. I didn't read it as her bashing Meghan but stating that she needs to be careful about what she says and how she says it. She even makes a good point about royal wives job being to accept flowers and have babies which I see as a dig against those who promote these standards in royal women. I do wonder if as an America Meghan can learn to curb her opinion; I know Charles has found it hard and he wad raised in the institution.

@Somebody I applaud your post and agree with it. I would quote you but it was rather long and I don't want to fill up the board.

As a woman and an American I would not want Meghan to come off as some known it all outsider. The country is extremely old and it would take me years to learn the history let alone the politics and I agree it takes time to learn the ins and outs of an issue.
  #269  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Terri Terri View Post

American feminist being too outspoken.....she should know her place....American outsider!
All sly comments which means that Meghan should just be content to keep silent and disappear behind her 'betters'. This wis why this article is disingenuous IMO.:
Yes, ANY future member of the family should know his/her place! Meghan is no exception to that rule. She is not yet a member of the family.

William and Catherine will always be above Harry and her in the order of precedence. They will once be their king and queen.

Furthermore, it would be hard to argue that someone who is new to the UK suddenly should tell those who have been preparing all their lives for their roles in the royal family and Britain what to do/focus on just because she fell in love with one of them; or tell the British public that they've seen things wrongly and need to amend their ways - she may have a point but there are other more effective ways (in the long run) to promote that message.

With time her role will grow as she learns from the more experienced members of the family; in that way she can become a valuable member of the family with her own characteristics and all she brings to the table - while they also learn from her perspective.
  #270  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:25 PM
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Being a tall white middle-aged man is still the profile of those who are 'automatically' (unconsciously?) best listened to. The more you deviate from this prototype the harder it can be to be heard/listened to. That's not to say that others' voices are not considered important but it takes more effort for them to be heard.
But isn't that exactly what Meghan pointed out. People don't have to find their voice but all they need to do is use it but just as importantly people need to LISTEN. That is what it really boils down too. People refusing to listen.
  #271  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:35 PM
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As a female who is the supervisor and works alongside many men... I can see your point but can't really agree. I have to work extra hard to be heard on a daily basis despite my status. In fact many think I am in the position I am in because I am a woman and they had to meet some absorb quota. They think I can't hear them but I hear every word. So yes it is important for women to stand up for themselves and speak up.

I don't think what I said had anything to do with meaning women shouldn't speak up or stand up for themselves.

The fact that women are in all areas of the workforce indicates they are being heard and are standing up.

You have to work extra hard...and? Lots of folks have to work extra hard to prove themselves. Even in all women work environments. This is not a gender issue. You see it in all male/majority male work settings as well.




LaRae
  #272  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:36 PM
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Yes, ANY future member of the family should know his/her place! Meghan is no exception to that rule. She is not yet a member of the family.

William and Catherine will always be above Harry and her in the order of precedence. They will once be their king and queen.

Furthermore, it would be hard to argue that someone who is new to the UK suddenly should tell those who have been preparing all their lives for their roles in the royal family and Britain what to do/focus on just because she fell in love with one of them; or tell the British public that they've seen things wrongly and need to amend their ways - she may have a point but there are other more effective ways (in the long run) to promote that message.

With time her role will grow as she learns from the more experienced members of the family; in that way she can become a valuable member of the family with her own characteristics and all she brings to the table - while they also learn from her perspective.
What does knowing her place and W&K future as King and Queen have to do with anything? When did Meghan ever tell any member of the royal family and the British public that they have seen things wrongly and need to amend their ways? Where is that coming from?

Meghan's comments came from her work as a supporter of women's rights and representinbg the UN which the UK is a part of.

And are you saying that with Meghan's background as an established humanitarian well before she met Harry, that they also cannot learn from her knowledge and experience? Or is it only to be one way where she needs to keep her mouth shut and just do what they tell her without having an opinion?
  #273  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:39 PM
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From the article..."Wow. I’m all for women being empowered and using their voices and people (ie men) ‘hearing’ them. But this was risky on a couple of fronts. Over here, we secretly don’t like women who speak out too loudly and often (I should know), let alone women who order other women to speak out and men to listen.
Actually, that’s true over in America too (remember what happened to Hillary).

And as a nation, we certainly prefer Royal women who don’t really speak, like the Queen, or the Duchess of Cambridge, as demonstrated by that No 1 hit about a perfect girlfriend with the lyric ‘you say it best when you say nothing at all’."

If I read this right, it sounds like the author believes the country is supportive of the concept of women being empowered but not so much the real-word embodiment. Basically, use your voice if you must, but do it quietly and modestly. And we'd actually prefer if you didn't say much at all. Kate seems to catch quite a bit of flack, as she does in the article, for being nearly mute in her role, but is also held up as the archetype. All this makes me question whether the underlying issue with expressing a POV on an apolitical topic is:

A) Meghan because she hasn't been there long enough and isn't married yet
B) In-laws because they're not blood royals so should just feel lucky to be taxpayer funded
C) Royal women because...I don't even know but the author threw the Queen in so I wonder if HM/Anne would be criticized for the same statement
D) All royals
E) British women in general

Based on the article, it sounds like E to me but I'm curious what others think.
  #274  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GrammaSueSue View Post
Theodore Roosevelt — ‘People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care ...
As ably represented by Meghan from the time she was 11 speaking out against gender bias...feeding the homeless on skid row in LA as a teenager....travelling to Rawanda working on a clean water campaign....travelling to India and looking at menstrual health....speaking at the UN for women's rights.....working with young people to be future leaders as part of the World Vision forum...

Evidence of how Meghan has always cared is public knowledge for all to see....she didn't have to wait to be a member of the British Royal Family to be taught about humanitarism OR caring about others.
  #275  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:45 PM
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I think the author is jumping the gun a bit on the negative side of things. A woman can be empowered and support women without going to the extremes we often see at various public events (Meghan has never behaved this way). It is possible to be a feminist without getting all up into someone's face about it.

Plenty of examples around.




LaRae
  #276  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:47 PM
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I don't think what I said had anything to do with meaning women shouldn't speak up or stand up for themselves.

The fact that women are in all areas of the workforce indicates they are being heard and are standing up.

You have to work extra hard...and? Lots of folks have to work extra hard to prove themselves. Even in all women work environments. This is not a gender issue. You see it in all male/majority male work settings as well.




LaRae
I shouldn't have to be treated as less than because of my sex which I am often. My hardwork has nothing to do with that nor the point which was clearly missed.

I'll just agree to disagree on this subject because we clearly see things very differently.
  #277  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:50 PM
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If you are being treated in a negative manner due to your gender then you need to be speaking to your HR department.


LaRae
  #278  
Old 03-04-2018, 03:57 PM
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What does knowing her place and W&K future as King and Queen have to do with anything? When did Meghan ever tell any member of the royal family and the British public that they have seen things wrongly and need to amend their ways? Where is that coming from?
I wonder as well. Meghan hasn't given off this impression she doesn't "know her place" at all. And heavens know people are quick to remind her with everything breath she takes. She hasn't actually done anything yet but clearly the idea of it is bothering many. It will definitely be interesting when she become official and starts with her patronages.
  #279  
Old 03-04-2018, 04:04 PM
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Exactly. Harry and Meghan has talked about working in the Commonwealth which will also include Harry's work with the youth forum. The Commonwealth also has a women's forum. On International Women's Day, they will visit a program dealing with girls and sciences. It is more than likely that Meghan will be involved in this area as the one bringing her experience into the family. All of these will connect with the royal foundation as the organization seeks to make the programs more global.
  #280  
Old 03-04-2018, 04:23 PM
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Ms Markle will [for some years] be seen [by the public] as the 'newest member of the Board', and therefore the most junior. She will never be CEO, and so [as with anyone in a similar position] she would be well advised to take things slowly, and 'feel her way' into her new position..
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