Do you think Harry (or Wills) will ever date outside their race?

[lizz70]

someone answer my question about the royal family having other races/nationality in there ancestry. I heard something about there being some russian ancestry?

well they are strictly speaking all caucasian - the present royal family is from Hanover and Saxe-Coburg-Gotha in Germany and through Queen Victoria's huge amount of children and grandchildren, the British Royals are related to all the other royal houses through marriage although the last Russian Czarina was by blood. But racially, they are all Northern European.

 

[Toledo]

someone answer my question about the royal family having other races/nationality in there ancestry. I heard something about there being some russian ancestry?

The Royal Family and all their cousins are related to everyone who is anyone in history. They don't just descend from William the Conqueror but one thing always left out as important is the female line ancestors. That traces her lineage from the caucasus to the Roman Empire and even further down. Reminds me of the plot of Frank Herbert's book series Dune when the lead character was able to bring up in his mind all his ancestors from the dawn of time.

I'll see if I can fetch a site I've seen that traces Queen Elizabeth so far back in so many lines it will make your jaw drop.

...I'll be back with it

Joy, I've found it! I save all those unusual sites like a links pack rat. I have not visited this link in a long time and it still works:

five descent-lines of Queen Elizabeth of Britain from JULIA, sister of JULIUS CAESAR

descent-line from Queen CLEOPATRA of Egypt to Queen ELIZABETH of Britain

Imagine, our lovely Queen Elizabeth II can rightfully claim she descends from three Continents, Europe, Asia and Africa and their races. And so the Royals and aristocrats related to her family, either in Britain or Continental Europe. Not to many elected politicians have those bragging rights when pushing for votes. Queen Elizabeth II has the history of the Western civilzation running through her veins.

 

[JOY!]

OMG thats amazing! thanx Toledo.
I can only go back 2 great grandparents and then I'm lost. Looks like I've got a lot furthur to go. The woman is related to Caesar? I recently got an account at ancestry.com to find more information about my family history, though I doubt I'll be able to go that far back.

 

[GreenLily]

What do you suppose would happen if the woman of a different race were a foreign princess or aristocrat? I can see a lot of countries that would take offence if their princesses/noble women were deemed unacceptable for the role of future Queen of England due to the color of her skin - especially if it was the British Parliament that said so.

On the other hand, the only country I can think of in which a king/heir to the throne has married outside of his race is Jordan; so perhaps other nations would be understanding of this pattern too. I don't know.

 

[BeatrixFan]

What do you suppose would happen if the woman of a different race were a foreign princess or aristocrat?

Well, in Britain, I think it wouldn't go down well. The Government would love it and would play the multi-cultural society card all the way. The people wouldn't like it very much - the real British people that is. Popularity would drop but that would be about it.

 

[Saragli]

I dont believe that for one second Sam. And what do you mean by the real British People. The British society is very multicultural. There are so many international aspects that have merged together to make todays british culture. I dont think for one second that the popularity of the monarchy would drop if William or someone else married outside of their race. It would probably boost their popularity by showing them to be modern and accepting. Caught up with the times instead of stuck in the past.

 

[BeatrixFan]

The British society is very multicultural

With all due respect Johnny, you'd have to live here to know whether it was or not. The Government like to portray us that way but the truth is very different.

And what do you mean by the real British People.

Do you mind if I don't answer? I don't think people could cope with my true opinions on this subject.

 

[Saragli]

I was expecting the "you dont live here" remark. Its not the government that potrays the multicultural society. Its pretty obvious. Other cultures have made a big impact on todays Britian. Maybe everything I have seen and heard about Britian is wrong but I doubt it. IMO, I dont think it would cause a fuss but I will take into account what all the brits on this forum say. They do have first hand knowledge.

 

[JOY!]

With all due respect Johnny, you'd have to live here to know whether it was or not. The Government like to portray us that way but the truth is very different.



Do you mind if I don't answer? I don't think people could cope with my true opinions on this subject.

I wish you would speak on your opinions on this subject. I would hope that all of us here are mature enough to be respecful of others opinions. If you don't feel comfortable saying it in this post, then please PM your opinions on this subject I would love to hear them.

 

[Toledo]

OMG thats amazing! thanx Toledo.
I can only go back 2 great grandparents and then I'm lost. Looks like I've got a lot furthur to go. The woman is related to Caesar? I recently got an account at ancestry.com to find more information about my family history, though I doubt I'll be able to go that far back.

The first time I've heard of Queen Elizabeth's mega ancestry was when I found a book from the 1950's in an used books bookstore here in the New England area of the USA. It's called Blood Royal and was fist published in 1956. I just grabbed it from my shelf next to me. On page 60 and 61 it traces the ancestry of both the Queen and Prince Phillip as far as the children of the Khans, the Caucasus monarchs and the Zoroastrian Shahs of ancient Persia. The book was made by Ian MonCreiffe and Don Pottinger. When I found that site a few years back I've realized that the book was not only accurate but missed more ancestors.

And back to your original question, on page 61 one of the Russian ancestors of both Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip is the daugther of Saint Vladimir, Grand Prince of Russia. She was Anna of Kiev, married to Henry I, King of France. Imagine, Queen Elizabeth even has Saints for ancestors too!
And not only that, from her Spanish branch Queen Elizabeth II of Britain descends from Alfonso VI of Castille and his wife, Princess Zaida, who descends from Mohammed I, King of Seville, descendant of the Moorish Princess of Denia who descends from Mujahid Al-Aamiri, King of the Barbary Corsairs.

PS. I also have the companion book of Blood Royal titled Simple Heraldry Cheerfully Illustrated, by the same authors. This site reproduces some of it's content and funny pictures: http://www.geocities.com/barensteel/women.html

 

[HRH Kimetha]

This is only my second post, but I do not wish to offend anyone. But, the question was presented.

Multicultural is by true definition, multi-cultures. Meaning than one culture such as Irish, German, English, French, South African, Zimbabwe, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc. It also means, cultures of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. So, as we little people that the world governments wish to keep in order and from allowing businesses make money globally, they have misused the term multicultural and added race to it. The real term that most are talking about her is multiracial. Many more than one race, whether it is a multiracial town, state, country or person.

I feel that it is okay for a multiracial town, state, country. But, not people. So, I do not hope that Harry and Wills will ever date outside their own race. That may result in a multiracial child and I don't follow that route. I find nothing wrong with having multiracial friends, but dating is what it is in that it is trying out someone which may lead to marriage and children.

I like the family the way it is. However, I would like to see them become more multicultural like Harry and Chelsy (British and Zimbabwean). And I think, isn't Kate from the US? So, that would be British and American, if she is from the US.

So, that's my reply to the question, without trying to offend but giving my two cents.

 

[princesslily]

Kate is not from the US, there was a slight mix-up as to her identification when the press first noticed that she was Will's girlfriend awhile ago. She's all British.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I was expecting the "you dont live here" remark. Its not the government that potrays the multicultural society. Its pretty obvious. Other cultures have made a big impact on todays Britian.

Johnny, I would spend some time in London. Real London. Not the tourist spots. Or Brixton. Or Birmingham - the Vicar's wives you live in Cheltenham love to say we're a multicultural society. It makes them feel good. The truth is that the British people are not all that happy with the way Britain is headed. The truth is that we are fed up with mosques being erected, we are fed up with councils of varying ethnicity telling the Government what to do, we are fed up of being told, "You can't say that - it offends minorities". Would you believe that the Mayor of London told Londoners not to fly the flag of St George because it might offend Muslims? And that leads to a feeling of resentment.

We have ghetto-like towns emerging where British people are becoming the minority. That isn't multi-culturalism - that's encroaching and people do not like it. For example, in the area in which I live, we have two BNP councillors. We regularly see spray-painted slogans and swastikas - and it's because this idea of a multi-cultural society is being forced but isn't wanted. I'd suggest that you do come here and see it for yourself before claiming that a)we're a multicultural society and b)we're happy about it if we are.

I wish you would speak on your opinions on this subject. I would hope that all of us here are mature enough to be respecful of others opinions.

I really don't think I should. But from what I've posted, I hope people will actually see that there is resentment towards other 'cultures'. And so a black girlfriend or an indian girlfriend would not go down well for William or Harry at all.

 

[JOY!]

Johnny, I would spend some time in London. Real London. Not the tourist spots. Or Brixton. Or Birmingham - the Vicar's wives you live in Cheltenham love to say we're a multicultural society. It makes them feel good. The truth is that the British people are not all that happy with the way Britain is headed. The truth is that we are fed up with mosques being erected, we are fed up with councils of varying ethnicity telling the Government what to do, we are fed up of being told, "You can't say that - it offends minorities". Would you believe that the Mayor of London told Londoners not to fly the flag of St George because it might offend Muslims? And that leads to a feeling of resentment.

We have ghetto-like towns emerging where British people are becoming the minority. That isn't multi-culturalism - that's encroaching and people do not like it. For example, in the area in which I live, we have two BNP councillors. We regularly see spray-painted slogans and swastikas - and it's because this idea of a multi-cultural society is being forced but isn't wanted. I'd suggest that you do come here and see it for yourself before claiming that a)we're a multicultural society and b)we're happy about it if we are.

Thats awful. It seems as if the government is trying to force some people except things, that they really don't want to except. Thats never the way to bring about something new and different. I think if the government over there took a more gradual, and understanding approach the results from the people might be different, or for some not at all. Some people don't like the idea of a multicultural town or city.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Some people don't like the idea of a multicultural town or city.

Exactly right Joy. People don't like the idea - and they don't want it. The word on the streets at the moment is, "Did you hear about the spray paint" and the majority of comments I've heard is, "About bloody time". Now you can't hide that. You can say, "How terrible" and "Racists" but if thats how people feel, nothing will change that and so whilst people feel that way, the Royal Family would be seen as betraying those who want the Royal Family to stay British - and yes, that means white, however awful that may sound to some.

 

[Skydragon]

The truth is that the British people are not all that happy with the way Britain is headed. The truth is that we are fed up with mosques being erected, we are fed up with councils of varying ethnicity telling the Government what to do, we are fed up of being told, "You can't say that - it offends minorities". Would you believe that the Mayor of London told Londoners not to fly the flag of St George because it might offend Muslims? And that leads to a feeling of resentment.

We have ghetto-like towns emerging where British people are becoming the minority.
But from what I've posted, I hope people will actually see that there is resentment towards other 'cultures'. And so a black girlfriend or an indian girlfriend would not go down well for William or Harry at all.

Hear, hear!

 

[MOLEY]

youv'e hit the nail on the head beatrixfan. In my village in south wales my mother from ayrshire is the most exotic person there and they don't really accept her but 20 mins down the road there is a school which was part of the local community and thrived and the council converted it to a muslim school and now local parent's who already live in a deprived area have to take children by car or bus to the nearest school, but good old tony blair thinks its great all religions and creeds mixing, but we are not mixing because why should we be forced to mix with people, that is not freedom of choice, yet people live side by side each other and grit their teeth all day until one day they will all explode and we will see real problems in inner-cities areas.

 

[melissajames]

youv'e hit the nail on the head beatrixfan. In my village in south wales my mother from ayrshire is the most exotic person there and they don't really accept her but 20 mins down the road there is a school which was part of the local community and thrived and the council converted it to a muslim school and now local parent's who already live in a deprived area have to take children by car or bus to the nearest school, but good old tony blair thinks its great all religions and creeds mixing, but we are not mixing because why should we be forced to mix with people, that is not freedom of choice, yet people live side by side each other and grit their teeth all day until one day they will all explode and we will see real problems in inner-cities areas.

Moley, do you mean that the council converted the school from a Christian school to a Muslim school and that Christian children can no longer attend this school unless they convert?

Or are the local Christians not happy to send their kids to a Muslim school even if the school would have them?

 

[oskana]

many people have posted what sounds like something that recently happened in France concerning street riots. France has this impression thats its proud to be multiculturalism. when in fact as we have seen it is not truly. at the heart of all these problems i think its mainly equality for all. while British council sees turning a formerly white british school into a muslim school as opportunity for muslims to advance. in reality it isnt equal bec your taking away form others. Thats what some have named the price of equality. in America, california has now majority hispanic and lets just say many people(whites in particular) are not happy this.

 

[BeatrixFan]

It's a forced integration - I find it interesting that what I've posted (lets call it a view from England) is also supported by someone living in Wales and someone living in Scotland - so the problem is affecting everyone in Great Britain.

 

[MOLEY]

Moley, do you mean that the council converted the school from a Christian school to a Muslim school and that Christian children can no longer attend this school unless they convert?

Or are the local Christians not happy to send their kids to a Muslim school even if the school would have them?

christians are not allowed to attend as it is for muslims only and yes the council sold the school to the musim community. it is now over protected with higher walls built and the lovely murals are now painted over and the main hall was used for evening classes and summer classes for all people and now its like a fortress in amongst an area of white cardiffians who are not welcome. its such a lovely victorian building.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Our local Protestant Church is being demolished - it's been heading that way for years sadly. The Muslim Council of Great Britain have said that there isn't a mosque in our town and they are planning to buy the site and have a mosque built - so Moley, it's happening everywhere. So you see people, this is the current climate in Britain - if anything, William and Harry would be seen as joining ranks with the PC brigade and I would see it as an insult.

 

[melissajames]

christians are not allowed to attend as it is for muslims only and yes the council sold the school to the musim community. it is now over protected with higher walls built and the lovely murals are now painted over and the main hall was used for evening classes and summer classes for all people and now its like a fortress in amongst an area of white cardiffians who are not welcome. its such a lovely victorian building.

It's a shame that its now become like an army barracks. I can see in this context that the way the council had done this with the aim of creating more facilities for the muslim community is actually increasing the divide and increasing the tension rather than the opposite.

 

[lizz70]

Multi-culturalism is a 'buzz' word for the government. You cannot force integration and let us not forget that there are minority peoples who do not wish to integrate and would not welcome an indigenous white British person in the family. As BeatrixFan said, you can call it racism but it actually cuts both ways. People may live in the same towns and cities but that is a world away from an integrated multicultural society in the true sense. It is a very difficult issue and not as cut and dried as politicians would like people to believe.

 

[babybird]

if anything, William and Harry would be seen as joining ranks with the PC brigade and I would see it as an insult.

If Harry or Will happened to fall in love with someone of a different race you would find it insulting, Why? I understand that no one wants to be forced to intergrate with people of different races but if two people choose to be together why would that offend you or anyone else?

I, myself am the product of an interacial marriage(mom black/dad white). So I know how hateful people can be. I have seen up close and personal, when I go out with my dad and when I have heard the comments people make when my parents go out together and people make nasty comments.
why, if two people are choosing to be together would strangers take it so personally?


Don't get me wrong I also doubt that Will or Harry will date outside of their race, but I think it is sad that if they did people would be personally offended and see it as an betrayal. When it is really just their own personal choice.

Pleae help me understand why you would be personally insulted? I think it would help me to understand peoples reaction to my family.

Please dont see this as an attack on you. I respect your opinions, even if I dont agree with all of them. I think a civilized discussion on race is a good thing.

 

[BeatrixFan]

I don't take it as an attack so don't worry. I just wouldn't be happy with a black or half-caste member of the Royal Family I'm afraid. And that's me being honest.

 

[HRH Kimetha]

in America, california has now majority hispanic and lets just say many people(whites in particular) are not happy this.

Here here to that! I'm looking for a white enclave tosend my children to away from a lot of social ills that are produced by the government with its multiculturalism. I want my child to be proud of their heritage as well as those who's rights have pushed my child out the door. Sorry to sound sooo harsh! You should read what they teach kindergarten children now in California. Go to google and read the propositions that have been passed.

 

[Lil princess lost]

There not allowed to marry a catholic because of an archaic law but they are allowed to marry Buddists, Hindus and Muslims. That has no relevance as to whether they will marry someone outside of their race. Race and religion are two completely different things. IMHO, there wouldnt really be that big of a deal. For Harry there would be no deal and maybe some commotion for William but that would quickly dissapear if his wife shows good traits and qualities.

Really? I had no idea they could marry someone of the Hindu or Muslim faith. Can you imagine one of the royal boys announcing he wants to marry someone of Hindu or Muslim faith? How do you think people would react?

 

[HRH Kimetha]

I don't take it as an attack so don't worry. I just wouldn't be happy with a black or half-caste member of the Royal Family I'm afraid. And that's me being honest.

Neither would I be too happy. I think it would be only to bow down to pressure to save the monarchy. From every sign I've seen, the boys are looking towards their own race to marry and raise children. It's good nationalism to be that way. Too bad the Western governments see that it's wrong to be nationalistic if you are caucausian and yet bring it on if you are not no matter if it is in your own country or not.

Minorities are very proud of their race and ethnicity and will not be afraid to show it or say it. But, not for the caucasians and from what I've seen and hear coming out of Britain, it's a thought crime to think about who you are if you are caucasian and a thought crime to voice your criticism of the social ills of your community if the social ills are pointing to a ill not of caucasian doing.

But, this question has really fired us up. I do see that my compatriots in the British Isles are not all fired up and giving up their Isle's as Blair and the leftwingers(?) have convinced them to do. However, let them catch this forum and our friends in the BI may get supeoned for taking part in this question. That's the sad part of the whole thing. You aren't allowed the debate to discuss it.

 

[Lil princess lost]

.....On page 60 and 61 it traces the ancestry of both the Queen and Prince Phillip as far as the children of the Khans, the Caucasus monarchs and the Zoroastrian Shahs of ancient Persia. The book was made by Ian MonCreiffe and Don Pottinger. When I found that site a few years back I've realized that the book was not only accurate but missed more ancestors.

They missed ancestors from The Empire of Babylon.