Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

[Queen Claude]

To be sure the BBC headline was tabloid-ish and click-baity to give the impression that The Queen was not consulted at all. The key point that the BBC makes in the article itself is that there were reports that the Sussexes informed The Queen prior to Lili's birth, and according to the BBC The Queen was informed after Lili's birth about what the Sussexes wanted to name the baby. And Omid Scobie's tweets / comments basically confirm that The Queen was informed after Lili's birth. So my take is that the Sussexes rang up The Queen and said [my made up words], "Hey Granny, just calling to let you know our baby girl is here, we're gonna name her Lilibet Diana and call her Lili, mmkay?"

 

[Addapalla]

Seriously?! I’d say this is unbelievable.

They are fighting back against a sensationalist media which feeds on people for its own ends, exactly as Diana and Caroline of Monaco did when they had enough of the media's intrusive, excessive and unrelenting coverage. This no doubt has a lot to do with Harry's indignation and disgust with the media over the recent Bashir/Diana revelations.

 

[Denville]

I mean why wouldn't they response? Their little girl's name is being thrown all over the media. They are protective of their kids and people are in a way attacking her. She 5 days old has had the most vile crap said about her.

The fact the palace is briefing against an infant is pretty wild to me but here we are in another drama between the Sussexes and the palace over a baby's name.

It was inevitable.

? Nobody is saying anything against the baby, it is the names that her parents have given her, which were bound to produce discussion if not controversy, that are being discussed. The palace is not "briefing against an infant.." they are questioning the statement by the Sussexes that they had the Queen's approval for the name.

 

[ACO]

Seriously?! I’d say this is unbelievable….but it’s not. This drags HM into this mess. That’s…..kind.

No the BBC did that when a reporter went on air and said the palace source is saying the Queen authorized the briefing.

 

[Addapalla]

I don’t think that we created it here. Have you looked at the BBC today?

My point was it is a deliberately concocted controversy, like so much insubstantial media and social media click-bait.

There is so much legitimate world news to get fired-up about - Lilibet-gate is 100% stoked-up fluff for the benefit of the media.

 

[Biset]

No the BBC did that when a reporter went on air and said the palace source is saying the Queen authorized the briefing.

Umm, have you heard of something called freedom of press?

 

[Somebody]

Does the Queen have trademark on the name?

You were the one claiming that you've come across the name countless other times, so it shouldn't be too hard to name at least 5-10 of those countless others that use this name. Seems a reasonable request from Denville - as I and probably most others have never seen it used in any other context, so it would be helpful if you could support your claim with evidence.

 

[ACO]

? Nobody is saying anything against the baby, it is the names that her parents have given her, which were bound to produce discussion if not controversy, that are being discussed. The palace is not "briefing against an infant.." they are questioning the statement by the Sussexes that they had the Queen's approval for the name.

Didn't two people get fired for being racist as hell about her? I am talking overall. She has been alive for 5 days and the only peace she has had was the two days we didn't know she existed.

It really is a shame that people are this riled up over an infant's name. It does not make sense to me and frankly I don't blame anyone for being confused. Watching the conversations on TV and I am like "Is this really happening?"

 

[ACO]

Umm, have you heard of something called freedom of press?

Have a denied them that? Someone said the Sussexes were dragging HMQ into the drama. I corrected them and said the BBC did. It is their story and claim. They can write what they want. And the Sussexes can respond the same.

 

[Somebody]

Palace source denies that Harry and Meghan asked the Queen to use Lilibet name.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57408163

Sussex spokesperson claims, however, that the Queen was the first member of the Family to be informed of the chosen name and was " supportive ".

The two statements are not necessarily mutually exclusive or contradictory.

Being 'supportive' that your great-granddaughter is named after you sounds rather distant; something that you don't really have a choice in because the alternative would be to be unsupportive, which isn't an option in that position. You would hope that she would have been 'delighted' if she truly liked her pet name to be used by her great-granddaughter by her third grandson whose new professional life unfortunately consists of bashing her, her family and her life's work.

 

[Curryong]

It's a very rare name

According to the most recent data from the UK's Office for National Statistics, no baby girls born in England or Wales in 2019 were named Lilibet — but there were four Lilibeths.
However, the second Baby Sussex's nickname is very on trend, with Lily being ranked the ninth most popular girl's name in 2019.

 

[Biset]

Have a denied them that? Someone said the Sussexes were dragging HMQ into the drama. I corrected them and said the BBC did. It is their story and claim. They can write what they want. And the Sussexes can respond the same.

No, they claimed they asked permisson from the queen and BBC claimed they didn't. That's not dragging the queen into anything. Harry and Meghan did just that on their own.

 

[ACO]

I wonder if President Biden will be asked. His team has been asked about the Siussexes each time some big news story popped up and he is on his way to the UK now. Lili is an American member of the royal family. Will be interesting how he responds if they do.

 

[Somebody]

And now they're accusing the BBC of libel and defamation:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...about-naming-their-daughter-lilibet-xqblbxx7t

Not sure why it is 'libel'. Why do they consider it "a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation." that the BBC explains that within the family they called the queen first to share the news of her birth but did not ask for permission to use her name (note: they did not need her permission - and if they asked it would be like cornering her: it would be very hard to withhold permission as that would further deteriorate relationships and they could still do as they please and build a whole different story around it).

I guess it mainly tells us that they know that the BBC is taken seriously; next to them broadening their fight from tabloids to the press in general.

 

[assia]

I don’t understand all this fuss ! Even if they had named the baby Lilibeth without asking HMQ maybe they wanted to make her a surprise ! And they are free to give their own Baby whatever name they wish even if it is to underline their royal connections ! Give them a break !

 

[Somebody]

I would have liked it better when the parents announced: "Her names are Elizabeth Diana. We call her Lilibet."

When the late Prince Claus registered his firstborn to the Mayor of Utrecht he litterally said (as was broadcast on TV): "His names are Willem-Alexander Claus Georg Ferdinand. We call him: Alexander".

By doing so it would be more stylish, it would have had more cachet, after all we are talking about a future Princess of the blood royal, no matter she will use her rightful title or not. "HRH Princess Lili of Sussex" is really too Barbie-esque.

But they are calling her 'Lili' not Lilibet. And this is what they stated by putting Lili between apostrophes, so that would be equal to "Her names are Lilibet Diana. We call her: Lili."

 

[_Heather_]

Being 'supportive' that your great-granddaughter is named after you sounds rather distant; something that you don't really have a choice in because the alternative would be to be unsupportive, which isn't an option in that position. You would hope that she would have been 'delighted' if she truly liked her pet name to be used by her great-granddaughter by her third grandson whose new professional life unfortunately consists of bashing her, her family and her life's work.

It does read, and feel, rather like she was backed into a corner. Sure, she could have flat out told them not to do it but the reality is that they probably wouldn't have listened or, if they did, that would have been the next story from Gayle King with headlines screaming "Harry and Meghan say the Queen is alienating them, wouldn't allow them to use her nickname for new baby, all the others got to name babies after her, etc." while conveniently forgetting that all the others used her full (and very common) name. And, frankly, the statements coming from the Montecito camp seem rather generic for something being used as a defense. Did they specifically share with her that they hoped to name her Lilibet and ask for her permission? Or did they share with her only that they hoped to name their daughter after her? Because those are two very different things.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

My point was it is a deliberately concocted controversy, like so much insubstantial media and social media click-bait.

There is so much legitimate world news to get fired-up about - Lilibet-gate is 100% stoked-up fluff for the benefit of the media.

I absolutely agree there are far more important things going on in the world than the drama over this newborn’s name.

But I’m not sure who/m you are suggesting started the drama?

 

[muriel]

Do H&M really think they are enhancing their brand by this unnecessary and tawdry skirmish?

 

[ACO]

No, they claimed they asked permisson from the queen and BBC claimed they didn't. That's not dragging the queen into anything. Harry and Meghan did just that on their own.

A reporter on Victoria Derbyshire's show literally said "The Queen would have given the authorization to source to brief the BBC."

Umm... why put them on record unofficially and not officially? Right now it is a lot of hearsay. All of it is ridiculous to me.

 

[Erin9]

No, they claimed they asked permisson from the queen and BBC claimed they didn't. That's not dragging the queen into anything. Harry and Meghan did just that on their own.

Thank you. That was basically my point.

 

[Denville]

Do H&M really think they are enhancing their brand by this unnecessary and tawdry skirmish?

I think they operate on the principle that there's no such thing as bad publicity. even if people are attacking them for attacking the queen, they are still being talked about. Even if people are saying that Meg's new book is silly, its being talked about and people will buy it.

 

[ACO]

Do H&M really think they are enhancing their brand by this unnecessary and tawdry skirmish?

Honestly the way some have very publicly reacted toward baby Lili these last few days, many likely completely understand.

 

[muriel]

Honestly the way some have very publicly reacted toward baby Lili these last few days, many likely completely understand.

Not sure I get quite what you are trying to say. I have not seen anything negative being said towards Lili per se. I have seen people question why her parents chose to name her as such, and whether they had the consent of HM before using her nickname.

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I think they operate on the principle that there's no such thing as bad publicity. even if people are attacking them for attacking the queen, they are still being talked about. Even if people are saying that Meg's new book is silly, its being talked about and people will buy it.

Yep, any publicity is good publicity - supposedly.

 

[Heavs]

I don’t understand all this fuss ! Even if they had named the baby Lilibeth without asking HMQ maybe they wanted to make her a surprise ! And they are free to give their own Baby whatever name they wish even if it is to underline their royal connections ! Give them a break !

Normally it is considered good manners to ask someone if you want to honour them by naming the baby after them in case they would rather you not. Especially if it is a private and unusual nickname. In this case the Sussexes have spent the last few months trashing HM (and no mistake trashing The Firm is trashing HM) and then may or may not have used her private name without fulling making sure she was happy with it.

Not sure I get quite what you are trying to say. I have not seen anything negative being said towards Lili per se. I have seen people question why her parents chose to name her as such, and whether they had the consent of HM before using her nickname.

Agreed. Everyone here has made it quite clear that this has nothing to do with Lili or her existence, I only wish her a long, happy and healthy life. I question her parents. Not her.

It does read, and feel, rather like she was backed into a corner. Sure, she could have flat out told them not to do it but the reality is that they probably wouldn't have listened or, if they did, that would have been the next story from Gayle King with headlines screaming "Harry and Meghan say the Queen is alienating them, wouldn't allow them to use her nickname for new baby, all the others got to name babies after her, etc." while conveniently forgetting that all the others used her full (and very common) name. And, frankly, the statements coming from the Montecito camp seem rather generic for something being used as a defense. Did they specifically share with her that they hoped to name her Lilibet and ask for her permission? Or did they share with her only that they hoped to name their daughter after her? Because those are two very different things.

The First Sussex Spokesperson statement said they had "shared the hope" that their daughter would be named after her. Not when they shared this and no where did they explicitly say "we got permission". Since then several other clarifications have come.

Interestingly at one point ITV backed the BBC and stated that "a source close to H&M said they never asked, despite a Sussex spokesperson saying they did".

There's a lot of obfuscating and "they would never have done it without permission therefore they had permission" that doesn't actually explicitly say "HM was delighted to say yes to Lilibet". In the slightest.

 

[Archduchess Zelia]

As I just said, I'm sure she was bewildered to find that the Sussexes wanted to call the baby after her, when they have made it clear that they feel they were so cruelly treated by the RF of which she is the head. IF they had said they wanted to call her Elizabeth as a second name, I think seh would have tried to be charitable and believe that they meant the name as an olive branch..

So... it's your own personal assumption? Doesn't really answer my question I afraid. I was asking for tangible evidence that she disapproves which seems to be the general belief in here.

but to use a private name that only a few call her, as the given name, could only be some odd decision to focus public attention on her and their relationship iwht her.

Lilibet is obviously not some sacred nickname that a select few call her. It's a nickname. Private? Yes, in the sense that family and friends use it. King Felipe calls her "Aunt Lilibet". David and Sarah call her "Aunt Lilibet". But baby Lili is her great-granddaughter. She's family, not some stranger.

If you mean the unidentified palace source cited by the BBC report, she/he did not state that the Queen disapproved or was unsupportive of the name.

I did not ?

 

[Osipi]

One thing does stand out for me with the Sussexes taking on the BBC and threatening "legal action" is that it does accomplish something.

It's like dangling a carrot before a horse, Whenever someone writes and prints something in regards to the Sussexes, they're guaranteed to get a reaction and those reactions generate more stories and interest by the public and the end result then is.... (drum roll please).... more green dollars in the pocket.

Harry and Meghan are getting pretty darned good at playing the PR game. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the name "Lilibet" was chosen because they *knew* it would create controversy. Perhaps the chances are slim to none that this actually happened as I don't think any human being would use their child this way but just the fact that it *could* be a possibility indicates how much they do need any kind of PR to remain relevant in today's world.

 

[Erin9]

Honestly the way some have very publicly reacted toward baby Lili these last few days, many likely completely understand.

It seems like an over the top response to me to start talking about legal action. Especially when their….team….opened the door to a response to begin with from my POV.

Besides- this is specific to reports about conversations with HM regarding the name. Not public opinion.

Harry and Meghan with ALL their public complaints lately have literally invited more public responses than they ever would have gotten had they just kept quiet. The response to the name would have been very different IMO had Oprah 1 and 2 and the podcast never happened. They made their choices. This was a very foreseeable result. The last attack was only about a month ago….

 

[ACO]

I think all of it is over the top but we are where we are now. So we shall see how it unfolds. I think it is safe things just got worse in the dynamics between the Sussexes and the palace. So whatever potential softening that could have happened with Lili's arrival is dead in the water.