Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

[_Heather_]

... She can't have an important bond with both grandsons?

Seriously? Of course she can. And probably does. That isn't even remotely the point, though I think it likely that you're aware of that. The point, since it apparently needs to be stated yet again, is that we've long known that while HM's relationships with each of her grandchildren differ just as individuals differ, she's always had close relationships with each of her grandchildren. This is nothing new. However, after the constant whine-fest of the last few months this article that was contributed heavily to by friends of Harry and Meghan, was at great pains and went to great lengths to reassure us, yet again, of just how close she and Harry are. We all know that that was because of all of the public bashing she's suffered at the hands of these two. There was really no need for them to, yet again, beat us over the head with that nugget of information unless they really, really feel the need to drive home the point and be sure that we all know that, without a doubt, HM and Harry are besties, super tight for life, nothing will break the bond kind of tight, doesn't matter what he says or does, he's the favorite kind of tight. Honestly, methinks they doth protest too much.

 

[Denville]

I think Lili and Archie will be just fine. Kids have different names all over but especially where they are growing up in California.

Kids get teased for anything and everything. They probably will be more mocked for their family connections more than their name if we being honest.

so wont it be even worse if they are PRince Archie and Princess Lilibet?

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I have many friends who are teachers and, as others have pointed out here, that poor girl is going to be spelling out her name to everyone. It will get tiresome. She'll introduce herself as Lilibet. The response will be, "Elizabeth?" "No, it's Lilibet." When we named our daughter, we thought long and hard and didn't want to give her a name that would give her a headache. They also did Archie no favors with that name especially since they moved to the US--not a popular name here. A bit like Johnny Cash's "Boy Named Sue."

Thanks so much to parents like you who select names that will not give their child a headache or worse. I had one student who begged me to talk to his mother about using a “typical” nickname for his quite unusual given name which he disliked. I called his mom but she refused to call him the requested (shortened and typical) name. However at school, I called him the nickname he requested and let teachers know about his request.

 

[ACO]

so wont it be even worse if they are PRince Archie and Princess Lilibet?

It won't matter what they are called because bullies will bully regardless. You can't live your life worried about what people who have their own inner issues have. You can name your child the most generic name ever and someone will still mock it if that is the goal.

I am grateful I had parents who taught be to be proud of my name. It was similar to a character in Disney and people would attempt to tease. It didn't really work though cause I loved my name and I also was the type to push back on the bully. Though not all have that kind of personality.

 

[Erin9]

... She can't have an important bond with both grandsons?

Of course she can. And with ALL her grandchildren. And great grandchildren for that matter.

I’m not sure why we need people magazine to point that out though. We’re getting hit over the head IMO with the idea that no matter what Harry says..... everything is all good with Granny. I have no idea how she actually feels, of course, but that’s the message anyway IMO.

 

[Denville]

Of course she can. And with ALL her grandchildren. And great grandchildren for that matter.

I’m not sure why we need people magazine to point that out though. We’re getting hit over the head IMO with the idea that no matter what Harry says..... everything is all good with Granny. I have no idea how she actually feels, of course, but that’s the message anyway IMO.

Yeah Im sure teh queen loves having her family abused and called racist, and her grandson having a go at them a few weeks before her husband died.

 

[Erin9]

Yeah Im sure teh queen loves having her family abused and called racist, and her grandson having a go at them a few weeks before her husband died.

I believe she’s likely quite hurt for all those reasons. I just try to be careful about saying how people feel.

 

[TLLK]

Thanks so much to parents like you who select names that will not give their child a headache or worse. I had one student who begged me to talk to his mother about using a “typical” nickname for his quite unusual given name which he disliked. I called his mom but she refused to call him the requested (shortened and typical) name. However at school, I called him the nickname he requested and let teachers know about his request.

I need to send you a pm so we can discuss the various student names that have appeared on our rosters.

 

[Denville]

I believe she’s likely quite hurt for all those reasons. I just try to be careful about saying how people feel.

I dont think she can be happy with Harry's behavior. He's her grandson and she's probably worried about the state that he appears to be in, and worrying that he is now living so far away from his family and seems so angry with them. But her statement as soon as they did the first interview seemed to me to clearly state that she's not willing to accept what he said without protest... I think she is probably thinking that while most of what he says is nonsense it is worrying that hes in such a state and attacking his family....so she wants to keep a hand out for him. But Im not so sure that they were having al that many cosy chats on Zoom and with Philip I'd be even more sceptical....

 

[lea]

Fairly random point , but the last two or three generations of royals have been unusually nickname/abbreviation-free. If you go back to the early 20th century, you can get extremely confused as you read about Ducky, Sunny, Moretta, Sandro, Greek Georgie, Lenchen, Ena, etc etc etc!

Maybe random, but interesting!!

 

[Denville]

Maybe random, but interesting!!

its quite understandable. In the Victorian era and a bit later, families were large and they used a lot of the same names. Victoria had several grand daughters called Victoria as well so they used nicknames to distinguish them. Victoria Melita was "Ducky"... Helena was Lenchen, her daughter Helena Victoria was Thora. Pss Victoria of Wales was Toria.
Now most royals have only 2 or 3 children.. and mostly, they have a broader range of names.. so there's no need to make up pet names for them. THere are a couple of Georges, and Jameses... i n the present RF but by and large there aren't that many doubled up names.

 

[lea]

its quite understandable. In the Victorian era and a bit later, families were large and they used a lot of the same names. Victoria had several grand daughters called Victoria as well so they used nicknames to distinguish them. Victoria Melita was "Ducky"... Helena was Lenchen, her daughter Helena Victoria was Thora. Pss Victoria of Wales was Toria.
Now most royals have only 2 or 3 children.. and mostly, they have a broader range of names.. so there's no need to make up pet names for them. THere are a couple of Georges, and Jameses... i n the present RF but by and large there aren't that many doubled up names.

That is quite understandable, thanks!

 

[Somebody]

I have many friends who are teachers and, as others have pointed out here, that poor girl is going to be spelling out her name to everyone. It will get tiresome. She'll introduce herself as Lilibet. The response will be, "Elizabeth?" "No, it's Lilibet." When we named our daughter, we thought long and hard and didn't want to give her a name that would give her a headache. They also did Archie no favors with that name especially since they moved to the US--not a popular name here. A bit like Johnny Cash's "Boy Named Sue."

There won't be confusion about the name Lilibet as she will introduce herself as 'Lili'. Nonetheless, she most likely will have to explain that it is written with an 'i' at the end and not with 'y' (at least, that's what she would need to do if she wasn't world famous because of her parents - so, I'm not too worried about her in that respect).

 

[lea]

Even if the Queen isn’t thrilled with Harry’s behavior, I don’t think it rules out that she could have given approval for her nickname to be used. She evidently forgave Charles for his direct attack on her parenting skills, why couldn’t she also forgive Harry?

I also don’t think the Queen is as fragile as some seem to think. Or even perhaps as innocent? I would bet that she doesn’t see herself or anyone else in the family as perfect.

In a strange way it’s refreshing to see Harry attacked over his behavior. For a while I thought it was only Meghan who was going to take the blame for their actions.

 

[Mirabel]

Even if the Queen isn’t thrilled with Harry’s behavior, I don’t think it rules out that she could have given approval for her nickname to be used.

I really doubt they even asked the Queen for permission.

Also, if it's true that Harry was invited to lunch with the Queen when he's in the U.K. for the unveiling of the Diana statue, she would be wise to have a disinterested person of standing present throughout.

Otherwise, who knows what Harry will say later?
Time to protect herself!

 

[lea]

I really doubt they even asked the Queen for permission.

Also, if it's true that Harry was invited to lunch with the Queen when he's in the U.K. for the unveiling of the Diana statue, she would be wise to have a disinterested person of standing present throughout.

Otherwise, who knows what Harry will say later?
Time to protect herself!

It certainly wouldn’t hurt, although I’m not sure she would use that information if her policy is not to respond?

 

[Denville]

She responded when Harry did his first interview and remarked that "recollections may vary". I dont think she'll trust Harry again for a long time....

 

[Mademoiselle Lilo]

Welcome to the world little Lili
Glad to know the Duchess and baby are in good health

 

[_Heather_]

So, I'm no fan of Harry and Meghan and I'll be the first to admit that I find much of their behavior questionable and worthy of some serious side-eye and a bit of shade throwing. That said, racism is never, ever okay and it's even less okay when it is aimed at children, in this case a newborn. While I suspect that the columnist thought she was being "edgy" and making fun of Harry and Meghan rather than Lili, she wasn't. She was just simply outing herself as a racist. Though the article does imply that this is not the first time she's been involved in these kinds of incidents. And the fact that she flatly refused to apologize is...well...I'm not really sure I have the words even though these sorts of people are rarely apologetic and even less rarely do they see their own errors and shortcomings. And for an added touch of "wow, really" she even went so far as to call Lili "it." Not "the baby" or "she" or even "the child" but "it." Anyway, here's the article in case anyone cares to read it.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/juli...fired-racist-tweet_n_60746dc7e4b0fcee71a07a9e

 

[ACO]

And a lawyer she was exchanging tweets with was suspended and now the bar association is doing an investigation. People letting their dislike of Harry and Meghan affect their professional life. It has been happening quite a bit these days.

 

[Heavs]

Julie Birchill's tweet was extremely wrong, as were others along similar lines but they've been fired/suspended.

I think it doesn't stop there being legitimate discussion about Lili's actual name and her parents thoughts and motivations for it both potentially positive and less positive.

 

[camelot23ca]

Even if the Queen isn’t thrilled with Harry’s behavior, I don’t think it rules out that she could have given approval for her nickname to be used. She evidently forgave Charles for his direct attack on her parenting skills, why couldn’t she also forgive Harry?

I also don’t think the Queen is as fragile as some seem to think. Or even perhaps as innocent? I would bet that she doesn’t see herself or anyone else in the family as perfect.

In a strange way it’s refreshing to see Harry attacked over his behavior. For a while I thought it was only Meghan who was going to take the blame for their actions.

I don’t think the Queen is fragile and I definitely don’t think she believes anyone in her family is perfect - the 90s alone would have cured her of that notion!

I assume Harry would have at least given her notice about the baby’s name. I’d be interested to know whether he asked for permission or presented the name choice as a done deal. It would put her in an awkward position either way; if your grandchild comes to you and asks if he can use your private family nickname for his daughter, is there really a way to say “I’d actually rather you didn’t” without potentially causing hurt feelings?

The Queen is over 90 years old and most likely a pragmatist. Would she be ok with a future King Archie or Queen Lillibet? Probably not, in the same way she wouldn’t have accepted a future King Peter or Queen Zara. But Peter, Zara, Archie and Lillibet are private citizens - their names really have no bearing on the monarchy. I suspect the Queen will stand up for the interests of the monarchy as best she’s able, but has a higher threshold for making a fuss about her personal wishes as a family member.

Maybe the Queen was happy with the choice of name. Or maybe she wasn’t but was aware that Harry and Meghan would be quite capable of publicly expressing their displeasure if she said no, and didn’t feel it was worth stirring up a hornets nest by saying no.

 

[Alison H]

I don't think it's the fact that Lilibet isn't a "proper" name that would be bothering her, more the fact that it's her private, intimate, family nickname, being used by people who've said that her family are racist, uncaring, neglectful, and bad parents, just after the death of her husband of 74 years. But we'll never know how she feels about it, because she doesn't go around discussing her private business on TV talk shows.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I really doubt they even asked the Queen for permission.

Also, if it's true that Harry was invited to lunch with the Queen when he's in the U.K. for the unveiling of the Diana statue, she would be wise to have a disinterested person of standing present throughout.

Otherwise, who knows what Harry will say later?
Time to protect herself!

Would the disinterested person of standing be a lady-in-waiting?

 

[Royalist.in.NC]

I need to send you a pm so we can discuss the various student names that have appeared on our rosters.

Absolutely! I can only imagine!

So, I'm no fan of Harry and Meghan and I'll be the first to admit that I find much of their behavior questionable and worthy of some serious side-eye and a bit of shade throwing. That said, racism is never, ever okay and it's even less okay when it is aimed at children, in this case a newborn. While I suspect that the columnist thought she was being "edgy" and making fun of Harry and Meghan rather than Lili, she wasn't. She was just simply outing herself as a racist. Though the article does imply that this is not the first time she's been involved in these kinds of incidents. And the fact that she flatly refused to apologize is...well...I'm not really sure I have the words even though these sorts of people are rarely apologetic and even less rarely do they see their own errors and shortcomings. And for an added touch of "wow, really" she even went so far as to call Lili "it." Not "the baby" or "she" or even "the child" but "it." Anyway, here's the article in case anyone cares to read it.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/juli...fired-racist-tweet_n_60746dc7e4b0fcee71a07a9e

Oh gosh! This article about the racist tweet - how awful!

 

[Sunnystar]

I used to know someone to whom everyone referred as "Michele with one l", because that was how she always introduced herself! Why her parents didn't just call her Michelle, I don't know. The Snowdons' daughter is Margarita, because Margaret, whilst a very popular name in the first half of the 20th century, was very old hat by the time that Margarita was born.

Liz, Lizzie, Liza, Eliza, Bet, Betty, Bess, Bessie, Bessy, Betsy and Beth are all used as shorts for Elizabeth: it's been such a popular name over the years that there are umpteen versions of it.

But Lilibet is a private family nickname.

Incidentally, the Queen Mother's childhood nickname was Buffy, long before anyone was into vampire slayers. I'm not sure why, but I suppose that a little kid might say Elizabuff, and that could easily become Buffy. At least they didn't use that!

My middle name is Michele - and it was a deliberate choice by my mom. Our last name has two Ls in it and she felt that one set of double Ls in my name was enough. Personally, I like the less common, but traditional French spelling of Michele vs Michelle.

I knew an Elizabeth when I was a teenager who went by the nickname of Buffy. When she was a small child her dad wanted to call her Beth/Bethy (and he did, now that I recall) but one of her brothers had difficulty with the "th" and it turned into an F sound, so Bethy became Buffy. Now, once she went away to college where no one knew her as Buffy she chose to introduce herself as Beth and successful changed her nickname so that she is known as Beth.

 

[Frelinghighness]

I'm not sure why there's so much confusion over saying that her name is Lilibet but they're going to call her Lili. If they'd said that her name was Elizabeth but they were going to call her Lizzie, or her name was Jennifer but they were going to call her Jenny, presumably that would be OK? No-one refers to Prince Harry as "Henry", or to the Duchess of Cambridge's sister as "Philippa". It's a bit unusual to put it in the official announcement, but I wouldn't have thought it was so weird as to attract so much comment. A lot of families use a short version of a baby's full name right from the start.


Having said all that, Queen Victoria was known as Drina when she was a baby, so Lilibet may end up calling herself Bet, Betty, Di or anything else.


I still think using a nickname as a proper name is odd, though.

Wow you really missed the point. They used an intimate nickname that only super close family members used, for example her recently deceased husband, after publicly trashing the entire family enterprise. Why name your baby after an enterprise that you think is so toxic and also announces her birth with letterhead showing royal emblems if all you do is try to show how you want to be free from it

 

[soapstar]

A number of posts have been deleted. Let’s stick to discussing the new baby and not start comparing Meghan to other royals, or turn this into a discussion about the media. Further off-topic comments will be deleted.

 

[Kervjacque]

They won't be putting "Lili" on the birth certificate. It's a bit confusing that the announcement said "Lilibet "Lili" Diana", but that was just to show that she'd be known as Lili. Harry's birth certificate says Henry Charles Albert David, but he's only ever been "Harry". That's nothing unusual. When I was at school, there were loads of Kates, Debbies, Mandys, Daves, Andys, Mikes, etc, whose birth certificates said Katherine, Debra, Amanda, David, Andrew or Michael but who'd never been known by the full versions.


It does seem to be a trend now to use a nickname/short name as the official name, e.g. Teddy rather than Edward or Beth rather than Elizabeth. I'm not a great fan of that idea, but each to their own.


Fairly random point , but the last two or three generations of royals have been unusually nickname/abbreviation-free. If you go back to the early 20th century, you can get extremely confused as you read about Ducky, Sunny, Moretta, Sandro, Greek Georgie, Lenchen, Ena, etc etc etc!

This is what happened to me! reading some biographies, I at first was getting the hang of the nicknames but, the way the nicknames kept coming, was a mental train wreck! hhahaha

 

[muriel]

I really doubt they even asked the Queen for permission.

We seem to have an answer to that question!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57408163