Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by xenobia

I think there has been bad moves on both sides. They are all hurt, and they are all human even though they also have titles. We don't make our best decisions in times of emotional turmoil, royal or not.

edited to add: And yes, the birth of a child is itself a big and emotional thing. The birth ot little Lili and adjusting to that also is something to consider. Cut them all some slack.

I doubt any of them are reading this thread and I think most people have acknowledged that there is a little baby at the centre of this who is clearly very precious.

Edward has publicly acknowledged that this rift has caused pain and hurt on both sides and that family can be difficult whilst staying family.

The press is reaction to what both sides are putting out there (and BBC sources are pointing out everything "royal" is getting triple checked because of Bashir).

It even seems that both sides technically "agree" that Harry told/informed HM of the name but did not ask specifically about the use of Lilibet but the Palace seems to be more fed up with the Sussexes announcing they're in constant contact with HM, trying to play it as if she's separate from the firm and using her for PR but attacking everything else.

For their part the Sussexes didn't have to respond to these reports by issuing legal threats to all the major UK media outlets - which happened in the middle of the night California time. They could have ignored everything and focused on their beautiful baby and the story would have been forgotten by most in a few days.

I think we can all agree that we hope for a settling down of tensions for everyone's own good both personal and for the Firm but everyone has different ideas on how or if that's going to happen.

ETA. I'm sorry for your loss Olive, welcome to the forums.

[Alison H]

Olive, I'm so sorry for your loss.

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by Olive80

Good morning. I am new, and I have posted this in one other place- but I lost my infant son last year (he was born three months too early due to eclampsia and lived for a week). I mention this not for sympathy, but because I feel I have enough experience in the matter to comment. With all due respect, I feel that it is H&M who need to drop this petty crap. Let the media say what they will say. H&M are the ones dragging this out when they already have so much to be thankful for and no reason to pick every single battle to fight. Stop threatening more lawsuits, stop whining about what they don't have, be grateful for what they do (their ingratitude for their incredible wealth and privilege and healthy children just astounds), and just go home to their mansion and enjoy their new baby and ignore the rest of the world.

I wish every. single. day that I could go home to mine.

I’m so very sorry for your loss.

I agree with you. Much of this is just petty. They are truly privileged- in so many ways- wealth, children, etc. Why they can’t just focus on that is beyond me.

Welcome to the forum!

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by angieuk

Statement from Prince Edward; it’s all very sad!



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ghan-rift.html



It's difficult for everyone but that's families for you': Prince Edward admits sadness over Harry and Meghan rift but says 'staying out of it is the safest place to be' as he wishes couple 'happiness' over birth of Lilibet

-----

Relative of Meghan Markle says she 'won't ever talk to her family again' because she acts like she is 'in a different social class' and like she 'is above them and where she came from'



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ily-again.html



RICHARD KAY: Only Harry and Meghan could call in lawyers over a baby's name

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...abys-name.html



Harry wages war with BBC: Furious prince threatens legal action over claim he did not consult Queen before naming his daughter Lilibet - as extraordinary briefing row breaks out between Sussexes, Palace and broadcaster



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...urce-says.html

Thanks. These were all interesting.

I do think one of the articles makes a fair point: Harry and Meghan named their daughter after his grandmother, using a nickname her grandfather coined : Lilibet. But are calling the baby Lili. I think it’s cute, but do they even like the name? IDK- but it’s not an unreasonable question IMO. It’s certainly not uncommon to give children nicknames. But they gave their child a nickname from a nickname.

I really liked Edward’s remarks. He basically left it as: it’s all sad, and he stays out of it. Very diplomatic. Smart man. And- fortunate that he’s likely in a position where he can largely stay out of it.

Honestly- Harry threatening legal action on the eve of his grandfather’s 100th birthday is just tone deaf and rather thoughtless IMO. I mean- here’s Edward stuck talking about Harry again when he wasn’t the point of the interview. Philip was. Why? Because Harry and Meghan couldn’t just announce the name of their child and drop it. They had to add extra, private behind the scenes details about HM. Again. (Albeit he might have gotten asked anyway without the name issue, but this IMO pretty much all goes back to Harry and Meghan running their mouths.)

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by ACO

Doubt Meghan and kids will step foot in the UK anytime soon, if ever. And at this point Harry might not come either. I don’t see anything being postponed. William, Kate and their kids will go and everyone will get what they want.

Originally Posted by muriel

Lets see. In what appears to be his current frame of mind, Harry, IMO, is probably unwilling to not be present and part of the unveiling of Diana's statue.

In all honesty, I sort of agree with both of you even though your statements are the opposite of each other. Part of me absolutely agrees that Meghan and the kids will likely never set foot in the UK again and I have my doubts that Harry will other than in the most dire of circumstances and potentially not even then. Then again, Harry has spent much of the last few years behaving like a petulant and stubborn child having a tantrum and this seems to be only increasing in frequency. We can talk until the cows come home about whether this is simply the "real Harry" showing itself after all these years, whether he's in the throes of a mental health break, or maybe it's both. Either way, part of me believes that while he won't bring his wife and children, he will show up and be present for the statue unveiling if only for the ability to then say "see, you didn't stop me, I win; I'm her son, too and she'd be most proud of me" much like you'd expect from a toddler or a bratty child.

Also, Osipi, I fully agree with your earlier statement that these two are heading for a big fall or a major crash and burn. I've said that exact same thing a time or two in another thread but the trajectory they're on is a dangerous one and if they aren't careful, the dangerously out of control train is going to jump the tracks in a big way.

As for Edward's statements in that interview, I think they were very well done, very diplomatic, very reserved and fair and removed. However, I do think they very much carry a tone that implies that though HM and the PoW might still be fighting this battle, the rest of the family has accepted that Harry, Meghan, and their children are no longer really much a part of the family. I don't expect that to change anytime soon.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Olive80

Good morning. I am new, and I have posted this in one other place- but I lost my infant son last year (he was born three months too early due to eclampsia and lived for a week). I mention this not for sympathy, but because I feel I have enough experience in the matter to comment. With all due respect, I feel that it is H&M who need to drop this petty crap. Let the media say what they will say. H&M are the ones dragging this out when they already have so much to be thankful for and no reason to pick every single battle to fight. Stop threatening more lawsuits, stop whining about what they don't have, be grateful for what they do (their ingratitude for their incredible wealth and privilege and healthy children just astounds), and just go home to their mansion and enjoy their new baby and ignore the rest of the world.

I wish every. single. day that I could go home to mine.

Welcome Olive..I'm very sorry for your loss. I work as a Labor and Delivery nurse here in the US and I frequently see how serious maternal conditions like pre-eclampsia can devastate a woman's perinatal course. My condolences again.

Harry & Meghan are no different from royals or celebrities that sue and threaten legal action. They all live in exorbitant wealth compared to the common man and they all have much to be grateful for. Still they sue as a mean to silence the press or have them admit that they were wrong.

Things are very tricky for H&M- they live in a world where it is damned if they do and damned if they don't. There every move is criticized. There were reports of Harry planning to name a daughter in honor of the Queen long before he even got married and had a child and here when he does he is being criticized for it- taking things further that the Queen didn't approve.
The BBC report of " Palace Sources" was being picked up and used by other print press like "see we told you he didn't consult the Queen". Now when Harry threatens to sue I he is made out to be the bad guy.

Sorry I personally don't believe the press should have sole control over the narrative and be allowed to vilify and castigate the royal. In this day and age false and inaccurate information spreads like wildfire. It is also use to start other fires. Let the couple sue!

[Sandy345]

This is a happy occasion. The Queen has had three new great grandchildren this year! Cause to celebrate. I hope this "namegate" goes away. Maybe a statement should be just plain issued by BP and end this. Now. Family members issued congratulations about the baby's birth, it seems to me there was no rancor about the name. The press seems to be making trouble. IMO.

[Royalist.in.NC]

Originally Posted by King of the Jungle

Harry threatening the press is courting too much negative attention. It is over shadowing the birth of his daughter and the birthdate of the D of E.
Why can't Harry just issue a straightforward comment (about getting his blessing to use Lilibet) along with the first picture of Lili?

No one needs to ask permission to use a name. In this case the name is not one in regular circulation and, as it pertains to a private nick name of the Monarch, one assumes Harry asked the Queen's permission. People are interested in hearing such - because they respect Queen Elizabeth and have lost trust in Harry's motives.
Instead of expecting public scrutiny, irate Harry is creating a fuss.
Winning a court case means nothing if one loses credibility in the eyes of the public.

I am sure that (at least one) of the RF’s concern is of the name being monetized.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Sandy345

This is a happy occasion. The Queen has had three new great grandchildren this year! Cause to celebrate. I hope this "namegate" goes away. Maybe a statement should be just plain issued by BP and end this. Now. Family members issued congratulations about the baby's birth, it seems to me there was no rancor about the name. The press seems to be making trouble. IMO.

Do you really think that the RF are not going to send congrats or are going to say publicly that they dont like the name? They dont do that. It doesn't mean that they think H's and Meg's behavior in the past 3 months was Ok.. or that they are all that happy about the way the baby was named. It would be pretty odd if they liked being called heartless and bad parents and racists and generally awful, would it not?

[muriel]

Originally Posted by Sandy345

This is a happy occasion. The Queen has had three new great grandchildren this year! Cause to celebrate. I hope this "namegate" goes away. Maybe a statement should be just plain issued by BP and end this.

I think BP have said all that they wanted to on this topic. I see no point in getting further dragged into a muck that Sunshine Sachs is keen to rake up.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by muriel

I think BP have said all that they wanted to on this topic. I see no point in getting further dragged into a muck that Sunshine Sachs is keen to rake up.

True but if Harry's suing the papers or the BBC for libel? I wonder if you are right that Sunshine Sachs is behind all this "rousing things up" and if they push Harry to go on line annd bash his family and ramble on about things? Because I can't help feeling that its not the best PR move. Increasingly it seems it omly makes him look at best angry and petulant and at worst a bit crazy...

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

True but if Harry's suing the papers or the BBC for libel? I wonder if you are right that Sunshine Sachs is behind all this "rousing things up" and if they push Harry to go on line annd bash his family and ramble on about things? Because I can't help feeling that its not the best PR move. Increasingly it seems it omly makes him look at best angry and petulant and at worst a bit crazy...

On top of all this, Denville, all this petty blathering and creating a media storm with stories of whom is at odds with whom today and what's the latest "reaction" to the latest scoop is serving to guarantee that the notoriety and fame that will be attached to Harry and Meghan will always and forever be remembered for the feuds they're having with everyone under the sun and how everyone under the sun has made them "victims".

It most certainly will not hinge on their philanthropic work. There isn't much out there even that is focusing on what they hope to accomplish at all. We know there's to be a documentary on the Invictus Games. Anyone see anything else in print that shows them moving ahead positively in their new lives anywhere? I get they've just had a newborn child but what are they actually taking a "leave" from exactly?

[Royalist.in.NC]

Originally Posted by Olive80

Good morning. I am new, and I have posted this in one other place- but I lost my infant son last year (he was born three months too early due to eclampsia and lived for a week). I mention this not for sympathy, but because I feel I have enough experience in the matter to comment. With all due respect, I feel that it is H&M who need to drop this petty crap. Let the media say what they will say. H&M are the ones dragging this out when they already have so much to be thankful for and no reason to pick every single battle to fight. Stop threatening more lawsuits, stop whining about what they don't have, be grateful for what they do (their ingratitude for their incredible wealth and privilege and healthy children just astounds), and just go home to their mansion and enjoy their new baby and ignore the rest of the world.

I wish every. single. day that I could go home to mine.

Olive, I am so very sorry about the loss of your infant son. I cannot begin to imagine what it has been like experiencing this enormous grief. I hope that you have the unfailing support of your family and friends.

This forum can be helpful as a distraction from everyday life - at least it is for me.

Your comments about what is really important in life are quite poignant. You are right that this is petty and I also think emotionally damaging to the Sussex family. Their two little ones pick up on the anger and anxiety whether it is stated or not.

I agree that they should just stop and enjoy their precious newborn.

[caethi]

Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC

Olive, I am so very sorry about the loss of your infant son. I cannot begin to imagine what it has been like experiencing this enormous grief. I hope that you have the unfailing support of your family and friends.

This forum can be helpful as a distraction from everyday life - at least it is for me.

Your comments about what is really important in life are quite poignant. You are right that this is petty and I also think emotionally damaging to the Sussex family. Their two little ones pick up on the anger and anxiety whether it is stated or not.

I agree that they should just stop and enjoy their precious newborn.

Right on. Life is precious.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Osipi

On top of all this, Denville, all this petty blathering and creating a media storm with stories of whom is at odds with whom today and what's the latest "reaction" to the latest scoop is serving to guarantee that the notoriety and fame that will be attached to Harry and Meghan will always and forever be remembered for the feuds they're having with everyone under the sun and how everyone under the sun has made them "victims".

It most certainly will not hinge on their philanthropic work. There isn't much out there even that is focusing on what they hope to accomplish at all. We know there's to be a documentary on the Invictus Games. Anyone see anything else in print that shows them moving ahead positively in their new lives anywhere? I get they've just had a newborn child but what are they actually taking a "leave" from exactly?

But the whole point of a PR firm is to make them look good, and I think that Harry doesn't look good. He's been seen as saying stupid things like abut the First Amendment and sounding a bit out of control, in the past couple of months. Then instead of having some good PR on the birth of the baby, he has managed to pick a name that really sounds odd, given their bad relationship with the RF.. and made it worse by his saying that the queen supported him giving this name.. and threatening to sue people.
If they really want to be seen as "good people" I agree, it would be better to focus on their charity work but we dont hear anything about that. ONE documentary that might not happen for ages, seems to be all they are doing...
they could have tlaked about thier charity work in the Oprah interview but instead chose to focus on the RF...

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by Denville

But the whole point of a PR firm is to make them look good, and I think that Harry doesn't look good. He's been seen as saying stupid things like abut the First Amendment and sounding a bit out of control, in the past couple of months. Then instead of having some good PR on the birth of the baby, he has managed to pick a name that really sounds odd, given their bad relationship with the RF.. and made it worse by his saying that the queen supported him giving this name.. and threatening to sue people.
If they really want to be seen as "good people" I agree, it would be better to focus on their charity work but we dont hear anything about that. ONE documentary that might not happen for ages, seems to be all they are doing...
they could have tlaked about thier charity work in the Oprah interview but instead chose to focus on the RF...

I can't help but get the feeling that they're striving so very hard to extend their 15 minutes of fame into 20. To me, they're kind of on par with the short lived celebrity of Tiny "Tiptoe Through The Tulips" Tim who famously married his "Miss Vicky" on the Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson or any singer or band that had a one hit wonder. It's all they're known for and all they will be forever remembered for even if they had gone on to discover a cure for cancer.

To quote Uhtred of Bebbanburg in "The Last Kingdom", "Reputation is everything".

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Osipi

I can't help but get the feeling that they're striving so very hard to extend their 15 minutes of fame into 20. To me, they're kind of on par with the short lived celebrity of Tiny "Tiptoe Through The Tulips" Tim who famously married his "Miss Vicky" on the Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson or any singer or band that had a one hit wonder. It's all they're known for and all they will be forever remembered for even if they had gone on to discover a cure for cancer.

To quote Uhtred of Bebbanburg in "The Last Kingdom", "Reputation is everything".

Call me cynical but I never thought that Meghan was that sincere in wishing to "do good" in a political or charitable sense.... She may believe she means to be an worthwhile activist, and clearly leans to the left in politics but I really felt that when they said they wanted to make a professional income THAT was their priority.... not urging people to vote or delivering meals to charities. And Harry - I think he follows where she leads and as the prince and member of the RF, h e is the one who has the floor when it comes to talking about the RF and their odd and bad behaviour. Meg was only part of the family for a year or so, so she cant have as much to say... and Harry is dutifully doing much of the talking, if he is making himself look foolish.....

|but it really isn't going down that well. He sounds so incoherent... and did Sunshine Sachs really think it was a good idea ot name their baby Lilibet and to say that it was after the queen who had given her blessing to it? Did they not realise that it sounded odd to give the baby an very very unusual nickname which was pretty much confined to the queens intimates AFTER Hary had done a lot of bashing her for bad parenting etc? Or are these Hs own ideas? People DO remember that he was hitting out at her, and his family even knowing that Philip was very ill... and that she was about to lose her husband of 70 years.

[Kaye1850]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Anyone see anything else in print that shows them moving ahead positively in their new lives anywhere? I get they've just had a newborn child but what are they actually taking a "leave" from exactly?

To quote the opinion piece (NYT) referenced earlier……
“from their senses.”

[Royalist.in.NC]

Originally Posted by Alison H

There are travel restrictions in place. Both the British and American governments strongly advise against non-essential transatlantic travel due to the pandemic, and quarantine measures are in force. Travelling to attend a grandparent's funeral is acceptable in everyone's eyes. Travelling to unveil a statue probably isn't.

Alison, this is a good point. Whether or not Harry wants to go, the travel restrictions may allow him to save face if he doesn’t .

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC

Alison, this is a good point. Whether or not Harry wants to go, the travel restrictions may allow him to save face if he doesn’t .

I do think he should go.. but if there are still travel restricitions, perhaps not. But to put it off for a year - well it has been wiating a long time now, so perhaps it is best for Will to go and for Harry to join in on video. but it is sad that the 2 sons can't be togehter to honour their mother...