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  #561  
Old 06-09-2021, 05:44 PM
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My guess is we will likely never see the kids in the UK now which is a shame.
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  #562  
Old 06-09-2021, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
I have tried so hard to keep out of this but you sum this whole mess up beautifully. Harry and Meghan know that the palace would never have made a comment with regards the existence or not of a conversion where the Queen was asked or told about the name, It would have remained a family matter.

By allowing Omid and I use the word for a reason to issue a comment that inferred she had agreed the name opened the can of worms.

I have made the comment before , the sentence out of the paragraph, they position things in a way to lead people down a road, while failing to correct if the wrong impression has been taken.
I do not have an opinion one way or another regarding the use of the name, the only comment I will make is why name a child one name and at the same time tell you she will be called a different name.
Absolutely, it makes no sense.
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  #563  
Old 06-09-2021, 06:01 PM
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Red face

Back to business -- on the baby thread, there was an observation that HM would benefit by always having a witness to conversations with the Sussexes -- someone in the room, so to speak.

An interesting point.

The conversation was on the telephone and not witnessed, or not totally witnessed (meaning a witness with HM could not hear both sides) .... unless the call was being monitored. That, the monitoring, may be something the Sussexes want to expose and point at to boost their "victims of conspiracies" storyline, which now seems to be their brand. They might even try a "Poor HM, trapped and spied upon, a victim like us" line of attack.

If the conversation was not witnessed, these two are essentially playing "he said she said" with a 95 year old lady.
  #564  
Old 06-09-2021, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
My guess is we will likely never see the kids in the UK now which is a shame.
I agree with you - not after this. And that really is too bad.
  #565  
Old 06-09-2021, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Camilla Tominey in the Telegraph making many of the same points we've been discussing here. That that name isn't the exact issue it's part of a wider frustration. As well as also pointing out that the BBC statement and the Sussex Global Press secretary statement don't actually contradict each other very much:





https://archive.ph/i2IOw


Thanks. This really is a very good article.

I personally think the Sussexes are making a mountain out of a molehill in threatening legal action over this. There isn’t a huge difference in the statements. Pick your battles….IMO. And- noteworthy- no one has retracted or clarified or amended anything yet. Hmmm….

And I do agree this response wasn’t just about the name- but about EVERYTHING. It wouldn’t overly stun me if HM hasn’t been thrilled that private conversations with her have been used by the Sussexes - IMO- for their own positive PR. (However true the stories may- or may not- be.) The whole additional explanation about Lili’s name is a perfect example. Totally not needed, but they apparently needed the public to know just how onboard HM was with everything. And….only her.

I really like the point that criticizing the institution IS criticizing HM. Totally agree. She embodies it. She’s the CEO so to speak. They have been careful to mostly- with one huge exception- not criticize her by name….but it is still criticism IMO. (I don’t want to go OT in the baby thread, but this has been my thought as well. And I liked seeing it in print.)
  #566  
Old 06-09-2021, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Maybe this goes in here to separate this latest spat from Baby Lili herself.

Apparently the Sussexes have now sent legal letters to every major British media outlet warning them not to repeat the "defamatory" BBC story. Which doesn't seem to have had much affect as they're all running both stories most leading with "Harry goes to war with BBC over name story" and then repeating the original quote from Palace Source.

It bears pointing out that the Palace has so far not put out a statement or another "source" disavowing the report this morning.

It appears that once again the Sussexes are trying to control the media which is an impossible task.

In spite of all this legal drama still no one is able to put out a statement that says "we asked for specific permission to use the specific name Lilibet within the last few days/weeks and HM was delighted to specifically grant the request."

It's all weasel wording and this is the same Harry that used a phone call with HM before Megxit to claim that HM had agreed to all their HIHO demands and courtiers were just overstepping/vengeful/wrong when that was clearly not true.

They have a brand new baby girl and they seem very focused on the media. If they let this go the questions over her name would die down in a few days

This sums it up perfectly IMHO. I tend to believe also that Her Majesty was simply informed by the Sussexes that they intended to honor her by using one of her names along with Diana for their daughter. However I do not believe that they specified that it would be "Lilibet."



Sadly what should be a very happy and busy week in California is now become yet another announcement that the couple is considering taking legal action.
  #567  
Old 06-09-2021, 07:57 PM
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The highlight of this BBC saga is not that the story remains up on the BBC's homepage under the headline "Harry and Meghan did not ask Queen to use Lilibet name- Palace source" but this line from the article:

"There were subsequent stories in the press quoting 'friends' of the couple who strongly suggested that Harry had sought permission from his grandmother."

"Friends."
  #568  
Old 06-09-2021, 08:08 PM
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[QUOTE=Heavs;2406764]

"All this drama over a baby's name at what should be a happy time. I really wonder what the end game is in threatening to sue the BBC and any other media that reported on it. Control? Forcing a statement from HM? Because any publicity is good publicity?"

My thoughts and questions exactly.
  #569  
Old 06-09-2021, 08:43 PM
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Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
One thing does stand out for me with the Sussexes taking on the BBC and threatening "legal action" is that it does accomplish something.

It's like dangling a carrot before a horse, Whenever someone writes and prints something in regards to the Sussexes, they're guaranteed to get a reaction and those reactions generate more stories and interest by the public and the end result then is.... (drum roll please).... more green dollars in the pocket.

Harry and Meghan are getting pretty darned good at playing the PR game. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the name "Lilibet" was chosen because they *knew* it would create controversy. Perhaps the chances are slim to none that this actually happened as I don't think any human being would use their child this way but just the fact that it *could* be a possibility indicates how much they do need any kind of PR to remain relevant in today's world.
It's about the "Almighty Dollar".

Reminds me of the Paul Burell story where he had a lot of Princess Diana's things that he said she had given to him and the Queen was forced to step in and save the day some how. I don't remember the whole story and may be wrong.
  #570  
Old 06-09-2021, 08:55 PM
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Congratulations to them and their families.
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  #571  
Old 06-09-2021, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Q

I wish that the Royal Family would just take their gloves off and the queen ask Parliament to remove their titles and remove Harry from the line of succession.

As it has been discussed before on this forum, that doesn't depend solely on the UK Parliament. The other Commonwealth realms have to consent to any act of the UK Parliament that changes the line of succession and, when the succession law is also part of their own domestic law (as it is the case for example in Australia and New Zealand), they have to change their domestic law too before giving their consent.



The last act of the UK Parliament changing the line of succession, namely the Succession to the Crown Act 2013, took two years to be ratified (or consented to) in all 15 Commonwealth realms besides the UK.
  #572  
Old 06-09-2021, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Here you are:

The Times view on Harry and Meghan’s baby name: Tone-Deaf

The Sussexes have taken a very personal nickname and added it to their brand

https://archive.ph/uK8AF

Thank you for the posting Heavs. Very good editorial. It would seem, at best, that the Sussex's are "tone deaf." Harry has a very skewed view of love and honor. The Sussex's HAD TO KNOW that this would cause massive publicity and uproar. How is controversy like this good for the Queen he supposedly loves and respects so much?

Furthermore, has he even considered the trail of bad will he has blazed over his daughter's name... all of which is in the public domain for her to read one day? If he really wanted to show love and protection toward his daughter a less noticeable name rather than lawsuits would have been the way to do it.
  #573  
Old 06-09-2021, 09:48 PM
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Congratulations to the Duke and Duchess of Sussex on the birth of their baby girl. Best wishes to the Sussexes and their children.
  #574  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I think all of it is over the top but we are where we are now. So we shall see how it unfolds. I think it is safe things just got worse in the dynamics between the Sussexes and the palace. So whatever potential softening that could have happened with Lili's arrival is dead in the water.
[…]I feel bad for Archie and Lili because they're the ones who will pay the price for what H & M are doing and be cut off from the rest of the family through no fault of their own.
  #575  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kellydofc View Post
I feel bad for Archie and Lili because they're the ones who will pay the price for what H & M are doing and be cut off from the rest of the family through no fault of their own.
[…]They left volunteeringly and my guess Meghan nor the kids will set foot in the UK anytime soon. I almost wonder if Harry will even attend the statue unveiling now. Maybe all for the best actually. This might have been exactly what was needed to finally cut the cord on all sides.
  #576  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:50 PM
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A number of posts have been deleted. Let’s steer clear of claiming that the Queen/members of the royal family don’t care about Archie and Lili.

Let’s also not speculate about how William will react to the Sussexes when he becomes King.
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  #577  
Old 06-09-2021, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryVirginia View Post
Thank you for the posting Heavs. Very good editorial. It would seem, at best, that the Sussex's are "tone deaf." Harry has a very skewed view of love and honor. The Sussex's HAD TO KNOW that this would cause massive publicity and uproar. How is controversy like this good for the Queen he supposedly loves and respects so much?

Furthermore, has he even considered the trail of bad will he has blazed over his daughter's name... all of which is in the public domain for her to read one day? If he really wanted to show love and protection toward his daughter a less noticeable name rather than lawsuits would have been the way to do it.
The more I read, the more all of this is starting to look like a chess game being played through the looking glass. With every mention of HM, The Queen, it seems like she's being reduced from being a queen to a pawn and basically used as "name dropping". You get the idea. They spout about their home, their foundation, their children oh and don't forget, ever, they know the Queen and she's standing by for their zoom calls with bated breath to hear from the golden couple.

As far as the Sussexes being ready, willing and able to slap legal warnings on whomever publishes something where H&M don't like their "tone", suppose they go too far one of these days and as a result, *all* media just simply refuses to even mention them anymore for fear of being sued. They'd have a heck of a problem getting any kind of a message out. If these two think that in any way, shape or form that they have the chutzpah to control the media and what it prints anywhere, I know of someone that's trying to set up their own social media network that may allow them on it.

The more that comes from this couple, the more I get the feeling that they're heading for a big crash and burn somehow. To me it seems like they're riding high on being legends in their own minds. That's what ego does.

It's time to come back through the looking glass again and join the real world, Harry and Meghan. You've kids to raise now and that's a responsibility for adults.
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  #578  
Old 06-09-2021, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The more I read, the more all of this is starting to look like a chess game being played through the looking glass. With every mention of HM, The Queen, it seems like she's being reduced from being a queen to a pawn and basically used as "name dropping". You get the idea. They spout about their home, their foundation, their children oh and don't forget, ever, they know the Queen and she's standing by for their zoom calls with bated breath to hear from the golden couple.

As far as the Sussexes being ready, willing and able to slap legal warnings on whomever publishes something where H&M don't like their "tone", suppose they go too far one of these days and as a result, *all* media just simply refuses to even mention them anymore for fear of being sued. They'd have a heck of a problem getting any kind of a message out. If these two think that in any way, shape or form that they have the chutzpah to control the media and what it prints anywhere, I know of someone that's trying to set up their own social media network that may allow them on it.

The more that comes from this couple, the more I get the feeling that they're heading for a big crash and burn somehow. To me it seems like they're riding high on being legends in their own minds. That's what ego does.

It's time to come back through the looking glass again and join the real world, Harry and Meghan. You've kids to raise now and that's a responsibility for adults.
Amen, Osipi!
  #579  
Old 06-10-2021, 01:39 AM
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Harry threatening the press is courting too much negative attention. It is over shadowing the birth of his daughter and the birthdate of the D of E.
Why can't Harry just issue a straightforward comment (about getting his blessing to use Lilibet) along with the first picture of Lili?

No one needs to ask permission to use a name. In this case the name is not one in regular circulation and, as it pertains to a private nick name of the Monarch, one assumes Harry asked the Queen's permission. People are interested in hearing such - because they respect Queen Elizabeth and have lost trust in Harry's motives.
Instead of expecting public scrutiny, irate Harry is creating a fuss.
Winning a court case means nothing if one loses credibility in the eyes of the public.
  #580  
Old 06-10-2021, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post

Incidentally, the Queen Mother's childhood nickname was Buffy, long before anyone was into vampire slayers. I'm not sure why, but I suppose that a little kid might say Elizabuff, and that could easily become Buffy. At least they didn't use that!
I read somewhere that it was the QM's younger brother David - he called her "Lizabuff" as a toddler and continued to call her Buffy for the rest of his life.
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