Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by Biset

No, they claimed they asked permisson from the queen and BBC claimed they didn't. That's not dragging the queen into anything. Harry and Meghan did just that on their own.

Thank you. That was basically my point.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by muriel

Do H&M really think they are enhancing their brand by this unnecessary and tawdry skirmish?

I think they operate on the principle that there's no such thing as bad publicity. even if people are attacking them for attacking the queen, they are still being talked about. Even if people are saying that Meg's new book is silly, its being talked about and people will buy it.

[ACO]

Originally Posted by muriel

Do H&M really think they are enhancing their brand by this unnecessary and tawdry skirmish?

Honestly the way some have very publicly reacted toward baby Lili these last few days, many likely completely understand.

[muriel]

Originally Posted by ACO

Honestly the way some have very publicly reacted toward baby Lili these last few days, many likely completely understand.

Not sure I get quite what you are trying to say. I have not seen anything negative being said towards Lili per se. I have seen people question why her parents chose to name her as such, and whether they had the consent of HM before using her nickname.

[Royalist.in.NC]

Originally Posted by Denville

I think they operate on the principle that there's no such thing as bad publicity. even if people are attacking them for attacking the queen, they are still being talked about. Even if people are saying that Meg's new book is silly, its being talked about and people will buy it.

Yep, any publicity is good publicity - supposedly.

[Heavs]

Originally Posted by assia

I don’t understand all this fuss ! Even if they had named the baby Lilibeth without asking HMQ maybe they wanted to make her a surprise ! And they are free to give their own Baby whatever name they wish even if it is to underline their royal connections ! Give them a break !

Normally it is considered good manners to ask someone if you want to honour them by naming the baby after them in case they would rather you not. Especially if it is a private and unusual nickname. In this case the Sussexes have spent the last few months trashing HM (and no mistake trashing The Firm is trashing HM) and then may or may not have used her private name without fulling making sure she was happy with it.

Not sure I get quite what you are trying to say. I have not seen anything negative being said towards Lili per se. I have seen people question why her parents chose to name her as such, and whether they had the consent of HM before using her nickname.

Agreed. Everyone here has made it quite clear that this has nothing to do with Lili or her existence, I only wish her a long, happy and healthy life. I question her parents. Not her.

It does read, and feel, rather like she was backed into a corner. Sure, she could have flat out told them not to do it but the reality is that they probably wouldn't have listened or, if they did, that would have been the next story from Gayle King with headlines screaming "Harry and Meghan say the Queen is alienating them, wouldn't allow them to use her nickname for new baby, all the others got to name babies after her, etc." while conveniently forgetting that all the others used her full (and very common) name. And, frankly, the statements coming from the Montecito camp seem rather generic for something being used as a defense. Did they specifically share with her that they hoped to name her Lilibet and ask for her permission? Or did they share with her only that they hoped to name their daughter after her? Because those are two very different things.

The First Sussex Spokesperson statement said they had "shared the hope" that their daughter would be named after her. Not when they shared this and no where did they explicitly say "we got permission". Since then several other clarifications have come.

Interestingly at one point ITV backed the BBC and stated that "a source close to H&M said they never asked, despite a Sussex spokesperson saying they did".

There's a lot of obfuscating and "they would never have done it without permission therefore they had permission" that doesn't actually explicitly say "HM was delighted to say yes to Lilibet". In the slightest.

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by Denville

As I just said, I'm sure she was bewildered to find that the Sussexes wanted to call the baby after her, when they have made it clear that they feel they were so cruelly treated by the RF of which she is the head. IF they had said they wanted to call her Elizabeth as a second name, I think seh would have tried to be charitable and believe that they meant the name as an olive branch..

So... it's your own personal assumption? Doesn't really answer my question I afraid. I was asking for tangible evidence that she disapproves which seems to be the general belief in here.

Originally Posted by Denville

but to use a private name that only a few call her, as the given name, could only be some odd decision to focus public attention on her and their relationship iwht her.

Lilibet is obviously not some sacred nickname that a select few call her. It's a nickname. Private? Yes, in the sense that family and friends use it. King Felipe calls her "Aunt Lilibet". David and Sarah call her "Aunt Lilibet". But baby Lili is her great-granddaughter. She's family, not some stranger.

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

If you mean the unidentified palace source cited by the BBC report, she/he did not state that the Queen disapproved or was unsupportive of the name.

I did not

[Osipi]

One thing does stand out for me with the Sussexes taking on the BBC and threatening "legal action" is that it does accomplish something.

It's like dangling a carrot before a horse, Whenever someone writes and prints something in regards to the Sussexes, they're guaranteed to get a reaction and those reactions generate more stories and interest by the public and the end result then is.... (drum roll please).... more green dollars in the pocket.

Harry and Meghan are getting pretty darned good at playing the PR game. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the name "Lilibet" was chosen because they *knew* it would create controversy. Perhaps the chances are slim to none that this actually happened as I don't think any human being would use their child this way but just the fact that it *could* be a possibility indicates how much they do need any kind of PR to remain relevant in today's world.

[Erin9]

Originally Posted by ACO

Honestly the way some have very publicly reacted toward baby Lili these last few days, many likely completely understand.

It seems like an over the top response to me to start talking about legal action. Especially when their….team….opened the door to a response to begin with from my POV.

Besides- this is specific to reports about conversations with HM regarding the name. Not public opinion.

Harry and Meghan with ALL their public complaints lately have literally invited more public responses than they ever would have gotten had they just kept quiet. The response to the name would have been very different IMO had Oprah 1 and 2 and the podcast never happened. They made their choices. This was a very foreseeable result. The last attack was only about a month ago….

[ACO]

I think all of it is over the top but we are where we are now. So we shall see how it unfolds. I think it is safe things just got worse in the dynamics between the Sussexes and the palace. So whatever potential softening that could have happened with Lili's arrival is dead in the water.

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by ACO

Didn't two people get fired for being racist as hell about her? I am talking overall. She has been alive for 5 days and the only peace she has had was the two days we didn't know she existed.

It really is a shame that people are this riled up over an infant's name. It does not make sense to me and frankly I don't blame anyone for being confused. Watching the conversations on TV and I am like "Is this really happening?"

I'm completely dumbfounded by it as well. What a shame that people and the media alike feel a need to use a 5-day-old's name as an outlet to further their own agenda.

[_Heather_]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Harry and Meghan are getting pretty darned good at playing the PR game. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the name "Lilibet" was chosen because they *knew* it would create controversy. Perhaps the chances are slim to none that this actually happened as I don't think any human being would use their child this way but just the fact that it *could* be a possibility indicates how much they do need any kind of PR to remain relevant in today's world.

Honestly, I've thought this, too. While I really hate the idea that they chose this name solely or in part to provoke a reaction and keep themselves in the headlines for better or worse, the possibility odes have to be recognized. In light of all of the problematic incidences of the past few years I think people could certainly be forgiven for wondering. I mean, maybe they did or maybe they didn't choose Lilibet as a bit of a PR stunt but there's just absolutely no possible way that they didn't know what they'd be stepping into with their choice of name and their choice of announcement method. They had to have known. It's really beyond belief that they thought everyone would look at this and blandly say "that's nice, good choice" and roll on...

[Biset]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

I'm completely dumbfounded by it as well. What a shame that people and the media alike feel a need to use a 5-day-old's name as an outlet to further their own agenda.

What did they expect? Harry and Meghan and their supporters are living in this fairy world that they're allowed to do anything, say anything and everyone will have to agree with them.

They've been giving interview after interview saying the famiy are cold, cruel and racist. Harry accused her grandmother of being a bad parent just a month ago. Of course people are going to question them.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Biset

What did they expect? Harry and Meghan and their supporters are living in this fairy world that they're allowed to do anything, say anything and everyone will have to agree with them.

They've been giving interview after interview saying the famiy are cold, cruel and racist. Harry accused her grandmother of being a bad parent just a month ago. Of course people are going to question them.

Even had they used the name Elizabeth, i think that there would have been many people questioning why they did so, when they had been so critical of the entire family. But to use this pet name, to keep up the insistence that they are family and close ot the queen, has really looked odd and bad. I thought that they could not possibly use a royal name, after the various things that they've said the past 3 months. If they had had another son, would they have called him Charles? If they had, would they not have had people wondering "harry said that Charles was heartless and selfish and a bad father and would not take his calls. Why would they use his name?"

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Osipi

One thing does stand out for me with the Sussexes taking on the BBC and threatening "legal action" is that it does accomplish something.

It's like dangling a carrot before a horse, Whenever someone writes and prints something in regards to the Sussexes, they're guaranteed to get a reaction and those reactions generate more stories and interest by the public and the end result then is.... (drum roll please).... more green dollars in the pocket.

Harry and Meghan are getting pretty darned good at playing the PR game. Sometimes it makes me wonder if the name "Lilibet" was chosen because they *knew* it would create controversy. Perhaps the chances are slim to none that this actually happened as I don't think any human being would use their child this way but just the fact that it *could* be a possibility indicates how much they do need any kind of PR to remain relevant in today's world.

Of course they knew naming the baby Lillibet would invite comment and strong opinions from the public and press. They can name their child whatever they want, for whatever reasons they choose, but giving her this particular name guaranteed them attention, publicity and controversy. Certainly the Sussex publicity and legal machine was primed and ready to go from the moment the announcement was made.

They are good at the PR game, and they and their team have had the philosophy that any publicity is good publicity from the start. Harry and Meghan aren’t victims here; they would have made this decision with their eyes wide open.

If the reason behind the name was really to honour the Queen, they’d have made the announcement and then gone into hibernation. No Omid Scobie and other lap dogs arguing for them in the media, and certainly no threat of legal action because of a BBC article that people would forget about in less than 24 hours if they left it alone. Their daughter is a private citizen, they don’t need to engage with the media or defend their decision, full stop.

Instead they’re on the phone with their PR and legal teams, doing all they can to prolong a sh*t storm that they helped create and that didn’t need to happen. It’s truly sad that this is how they’re choosing to spend their time when they could be ignoring the whole world and focusing completely on their newborn daughter.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by camelot23ca

Of course they knew naming the baby Lillibet would invite comment and strong opinions from the public and press. They can name their child whatever they want, for whatever reasons they choose, but giving her this particular name guaranteed them attention, publicity and controversy. Certainly the Sussex publicity and legal machine was primed and ready to go from the moment the announcement was made.

They are good at the PR game, and they and their team have had the philosophy that any publicity is good publicity from the start. Harry and Meghan aren’t victims here; they would have made this decision with their eyes wide open.

If the reason behind the name was really to honour the Queen, they’d have made the announcement and then gone into hibernation. No Omid Scobie and other lap dogs arguing for them in the media, and certainly no threat of legal action because of a BBC article that people would forget about in less than 24 hours if they left it alone. Their daughter is a private citizen, they don’t need to engage with the media or defend their decision, full stop.

Instead they’re on the phone with their PR and legal teams, doing all they can to prolong a sh*t storm that they helped create and that didn’t need to happen. It’s truly sad that this is how they’re choosing to spend their time when they could be ignoring the whole world and focusing completely on their newborn daughter.

or they could have siad "we've had a lovely daughter and we're taking a few months off to be with her.. and we'll announce her name later." Yes the press might moan, but if they really vanished off the radar, I think that gradually the interest would fade. If they really DID lead a private life in the US, the British press would problaby go on about them for a time but in due course, the interest would fade as there would be nothing to feed it, except an occasional sighting of Harry on a bike or the like.

[Prinsara]

The obvious conclusion is they have no interest in having interest in them fade, by their actions.

[Royalist.in.NC]

Originally Posted by Curryong

It's a very rare name

According to the most recent data from the UK's Office for National Statistics, no baby girls born in England or Wales in 2019 were named Lilibet — but there were four Lilibeths.
However, the second Baby Sussex's nickname is very on trend, with Lily being ranked the ninth most popular girl's name in 2019.

Yes! Lilabeth is a name. Lilibet is an unusual nickname.

[Alison H]

Lots of people use their children's names to invite comment. With all due respect to those concerned, does anyone imagine that people thought "Ooh, Apple/Sunday Rose/North West/Zowie Bowie/Fifi Trixabelle/Brooklyn is such a nice name - why don't we go with that?"? The difference is that none of those names "involve" other people.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC

Yes! Lilabeth is a name. Lilibet is an unusual nickname.

and there dont seem to be "lots of other Lilibets" out there......

Originally Posted by Alison H

Lots of people use their children's names to invite comment. With all due respect to those concerned, does anyone imagine that people thought "Ooh, Apple/Sunday Rose/North West/Zowie Bowie/Fifi Trixabelle/Brooklyn is such a nice name - why don't we go with that?"? The difference is that none of those names "involve" other people.

I think some people truly have a rather bizarre taste in names.. Paula Yates was one.. with other celebs, one does feel that they chose the odd names to attract attention..and I think that later on, the kids have often changed their names ot something more mundane.