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  #261  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
If it hadn’t been for all of the recent, repeated attacks which do the exact opposite of honoring his grandmother - Harry just criticized his grandmother’s parenting skills a few weeks ago- I would have wholeheartedly thought it was a lovely and unique idea to use HM’s nickname as their daughter’s first name. No one else has done it. I presume they like the nickname Lili too- which is cute IMO. It flows well with Archie too.

If they’d just done what they actually said they’d do at the time of the exit, I’d see this differently.
Exactly! It comes across as insincere .
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  #262  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
I agree. They have spent the past few weeks tearing the royal family apart, including the Queen, but now they all of a sudden think so much of her that they want to name their baby using a very personal name only used by HM. This smacks of nothing more than trying to needle the family and, as you said, remind the World of their connection to the BRF as that is their main selling point.
And its the obvious nature of this ploy from the Sussex playbook that will always be remembered. The family are now known as celebrities that happen to be royal relations. NOT private persons known for their humanitarian works, elegant citizens of the world, fulfilling their deepest altruistic goals. Quite a departure from what was announced when they left the UK.
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  #263  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyGlendower View Post
And its the obvious nature of this ploy from the Sussex playbook that will always be remembered. The family are now known as celebrities that happen to be royal relations. NOT private persons known for their humanitarian works, elegant citizens of the world, fulfilling their deepest altruistic goals. Quite a departure from what was announced when they left the UK.
Was it? I recall that they said they wanted to leave to make a professional income. They may have mentioned "altruistic" stuff as well, but they could have done the philanthropy without quitting the UK or the RF.. or without "looking to make a professional income".
  #264  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:33 AM
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Well. I'm happy to hear that the baby arrived healthy and safely.

As for her name, well, what more would anyone expect. While I think we all expected her middle name to be Diana and rightly so, that first name is really something. I do think Lily would have been a nice choice. Still a tribute to HM if they really wanted to go there and sounds fabulous with Archie. However, using Lilibet is really a step too far. This was a private family nickname and while we've known for years that it was, indeed, HM's nickname, it was held for private use only by her absolute nearest and dearest. The use of it here feels intrusive and awkward, like we've stumbled into a private conversation not meant for our ears. And for the record, I would feel that way if any of HM's grandchildren used the name, not just these two. And that's to say nothing of the fact that it feels very contrived, calculated, disingenuous, and insincere. To have conscripted such a private and intimate thing for public consumption just feels...wrong. It would feel wrong no matter who chose to do it but in this case, from these two, it absolutely feels like the worst kind of PR stunt. I do wonder how it all went down behind palace walls.

Considering that the congratulations posts from the family felt a bit cool and reserved I'd wonder if it might not be going over terribly well. Or maybe that was just the fact that the two people who have gone out of their way to bash the monarchy and the entire family felt the need to conscript an intimate family nickname and then release the information on an official press release with a royal monogram at the top.
  #265  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Well. I'm happy to hear that the baby arrived healthy and safely. As for her name, well, what more would anyone expect. While I think we all expected her middle name to be Diana and rightly so, that first name is really something. I do think Lily would have been a nice choice. Still a tribute to HM if they really wanted to go there and sounds fabulous with Archie. However, using Lilibet is really a step too far. This was a private family nickname and while we've known for years that it was, indeed, HM's nickname, it was held for private use only by her absolute nearest and dearest. The use of it here feels intrusive and awkward, like we've stumbled into a private conversation not meant for our ears. And for the record, I would feel that way if any of HM's grandchildren used the name, not just these two. And that's to say nothing of the fact that it feels very contrived, calculated, disingenuous, and insincere. To have conscripted such a private and intimate thing for public consumption just feels...wrong. It would feel wrong no matter who chose to do it but in this case, from these two, it absolutely feels like the worst kind of PR stunt. I do wonder how it all went down behind behind palace walls. Considering that the congratulations posts from the family felt a bit cool and reserved I'd wonder if it might not be going over terribly well. Or maybe that was just the fact that the two people who have gone out of their way to bash the monarchy and the entire family felt the need to conscript an intimate family nickname and then release the information on an official press release with a royal monogram at the top.
Had another family member used this name for their child it would have been an interesting choice. Had it been Zara, for example, it would have come across as being selected with the deepest affection but, as we all know, none of the Queen's family have used this as it's hugely personal to HM alone. To therefore have Harry and Meghan do it, ie people who have slated Harry's family for the past 6 or so weeks, looks like a passive aggressive move to actually cheese the Queen and the rest of the family off.They wanted out so they really should move on and stop with this kind of nonsense.
  #266  
Old 06-07-2021, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
Had another family member used this name for their child it would have been an interesting choice. Had it been Zara, for example, it would have come across as being selected with the deepest affection but, as we all know, none of the Queen's family have used this as it's hugely personal to HM alone. To therefore have Harry and Meghan do it, ie people who have slated Harry's family for the past 6 or so weeks, looks like a passive aggressive move to actually cheese the Queen and the rest of the family off.
I dont think that Zara or the other younger royals would do this. I dont much like the names Z and Mike have chosen for their girls, as they're abbreviations and I dont really like these. But to honour HM, Zara chose "Lena Elizabeth" not "Lena Lillibet"....
  #267  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont think that Zara or the other younger royals would do this. I dont much like the names Z and Mike have chosen for their girls, as they're abbreviations and I dont really like these. But to honour HM, Zara chose "Lena Elizabeth" not "Lena Lillibet"....
That's my point. Even those family members who haven't sat down with Oprah and attacked the Queen wouldn't call their child Lilibet yet here we have H and M doing so. You couldn't make it up.
  #268  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Was it? I recall that they said they wanted to leave to make a professional income. They may have mentioned "altruistic" stuff as well, but they could have done the philanthropy without quitting the UK or the RF.. or without "looking to make a professional income".
I don't see "private citizens" and making a "professional income" as mutually exclusive---but it may be my wording as an American that is lacking here. In my part of the US "private" is used much the same as the term "civilian" meaning non-military, non-governmental, non-position of authority. I should have been more explicit and said "non-royals" living low-key out-of-the-spotlight lives.

Be patient with me, friend. I'm just now getting the hang of hollering Oi!!! at my family. Twenty more years of watching BritBox and I should be proficient.
  #269  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:15 AM
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Whatever the motives behind it, it smacks (and reinforces) that H&M are neither creative nor secure enough to give their child a name that doesn't tie them all to the institution they've been professing to flee for the past year and a half, or even to allow their newborn daughter that freedom.

At worst, it's a deliberately cynical and calculated slap/cash-in.
  #270  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyGlendower View Post
I don't see "private citizens" and making a "professional income" as mutually exclusive---but it may be my wording as an American that is lacking here. In my part of the US "private" is used much the same as the term "civilian" meaning non-military, non-governmental, non-position of authority. I should have been more explicit and said "non-royals" living low-key out-of-the-spotlight lives.

Be patient with me, friend. I'm just now getting the hang of hollering Oi!!! at my family. Twenty more years of watching BritBox and I should be proficient.
Sorry I meant the point being that they quit royal life, to make money. They said this.. so it wasn't to "lead a quiet life away from the media", or to devote themselves to charity work. So what they are doing IS what they wanted to do and said, when they left. I admit that I didn't expect them to start talking about the RF's private life, and bashing the RF, in the way they did, but I did expect that they had to do SOMETHING of a commerical nature, to make the money that they need for thier lifestyle.
  #271  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Whatever the motives behind it, it smacks (and reinforces) that H&M are neither creative nor secure enough to give their child a name that doesn't tie them all to the institution they've been professing to flee for the past year and a half, or even to allow their newborn daughter that freedom.

At worse, it's a deliberately cynical and calculated slap/cash-in.
That's a great summary of the situation.
  #272  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:30 AM
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Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Well. I'm happy to hear that the baby arrived healthy and safely.

As for her name, well, what more would anyone expect. While I think we all expected her middle name to be Diana and rightly so, that first name is really something. I do think Lily would have been a nice choice. Still a tribute to HM if they really wanted to go there and sounds fabulous with Archie. However, using Lilibet is really a step too far. This was a private family nickname and while we've known for years that it was, indeed, HM's nickname, it was held for private use only by her absolute nearest and dearest. The use of it here feels intrusive and awkward, like we've stumbled into a private conversation not meant for our ears. And for the record, I would feel that way if any of HM's grandchildren used the name, not just these two. And that's to say nothing of the fact that it feels very contrived, calculated, disingenuous, and insincere. To have conscripted such a private and intimate thing for public consumption just feels...wrong. It would feel wrong no matter who chose to do it but in this case, from these two, it absolutely feels like the worst kind of PR stunt. I do wonder how it all went down behind palace walls.

Considering that the congratulations posts from the family felt a bit cool and reserved I'd wonder if it might not be going over terribly well. Or maybe that was just the fact that the two people who have gone out of their way to bash the monarchy and the entire family felt the need to conscript an intimate family nickname and then release the information on an official press release with a royal monogram at the top.


Well- I would think that any other member of the family would have surely asked HM if she had any objection to using her nickname if they wanted to use it to honor her. Maybe Harry and Meghan did. Though- their track record of doing whatever they want lately leads me to wonder. IOW- if she has no objection- why not use it.

What grates to me is simply using her name after months of attacks on their family. Your words to describe it sum up my feelings on how it comes across to me.

I noticed the royal monogram too at the top of the announcement. I couldn’t help but laugh. They bash the institution and family repeatedly- but they sure do love using the trappings of royalty when they can. They said it doesn’t matter....but IMO it clearly does. If they hate everything royal as much as they seem to in their interviews, you’d think they’d want to completely disassociate with everything royal. Funny how that hasn’t happened.

The congratulations posts seemed pretty standard to me. Admittedly- I just glanced at them. What made them sound a bit cool and reserved? I’m curious.
  #273  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
The congratulations posts seemed pretty standard to me. Admittedly- I just glanced at them. What made them sound a bit cool and reserved? I’m curious.
For me, it was a couple of things. Admittedly they were minor things but they stood out to my eye. Then again, I spend a lot of my time each day writing due to the nature of my job and those weird little things tend to jump out at me even when they seem pretty standard to others who maybe don't see them the same way. For instance, in the post from William and Catherine, it was two very short sentences, no emojis, no exclamation points. We know that they often use emojis much as they did in the birthday post for Archie and we can see by their other posts that they often use punctuation and emojis to express their tone, excitement, etc. In the post from Charles and Camilla, I again found the lack of exclamation point to be notable though they did use an emoji. What really struck me, though, was the last sentence "Wishing them all well at this time." That seems very cool, very distant. There's no excitement, no exclamation point. It almost reads like a get well soon message or even a message of condolence. It felt like something they would have written about an acquaintance or someone they know but not terribly intimately, certainly not something that feels like the celebration of the birth of a new grandchild. I would agree that the statement from HM seemed much more standard and like that which we normally see from her on the birth of a new great-grandchild.
  #274  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:50 AM
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I think that most of the RF will just offer polite congrats and best wishes, no more.
  #275  
Old 06-07-2021, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
For me, it was a couple of things. Admittedly they were minor things but they stood out to my eye. Then again, I spend a lot of my time each day writing due to the nature of my job and those weird little things tend to jump out at me even when they seem pretty standard to others who maybe don't see them the same way. For instance, in the post from William and Catherine, it was two very short sentences, no emojis, no exclamation points. We know that they often use emojis much as they did in the birthday post for Archie and we can see by their other posts that they often use punctuation and emojis to express their tone, excitement, etc. In the post from Charles and Camilla, I again found the lack of exclamation point to be notable though they did use an emoji. What really struck me, though, was the last sentence "Wishing them all well at this time." That seems very cool, very distant. There's no excitement, no exclamation point. It almost reads like a get well soon message or even a message of condolence. It felt like something they would have written about an acquaintance or someone they know but not terribly intimately, certainly not something that feels like the celebration of the birth of a new grandchild. I would agree that the statement from HM seemed much more standard and like that which we normally see from her on the birth of a new great-grandchild.


Thanks. Those are good observations.
  #276  
Old 06-07-2021, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
That's a great summary of the situation.
It's also not just that Lilibet is HM's personal name and how she thinks of herself.

"Elizabeth" is arguably a standard, enduringly popular name with many different associations. Even that has some space for maneuvering.

"Lilibet" is only the Queen. No ifs, ands, or buts. There were no others until last Friday. And of all the names in the world Harry and Meghan could have given their daughter, that was the one they decided she absolutely had to have?

Just me, but I think HM would have considered it a real honor even if they'd named her Diana Philippa (and they could still have called her "Lili").
  #277  
Old 06-07-2021, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
For me, it was a couple of things. Admittedly they were minor things but they stood out to my eye. Then again, I spend a lot of my time each day writing due to the nature of my job and those weird little things tend to jump out at me even when they seem pretty standard to others who maybe don't see them the same way. For instance, in the post from William and Catherine, it was two very short sentences, no emojis, no exclamation points. We know that they often use emojis much as they did in the birthday post for Archie and we can see by their other posts that they often use punctuation and emojis to express their tone, excitement, etc. In the post from Charles and Camilla, I again found the lack of exclamation point to be notable though they did use an emoji. What really struck me, though, was the last sentence "Wishing them all well at this time." That seems very cool, very distant. There's no excitement, no exclamation point. It almost reads like a get well soon message or even a message of condolence. It felt like something they would have written about an acquaintance or someone they know but not terribly intimately, certainly not something that feels like the celebration of the birth of a new grandchild. I would agree that the statement from HM seemed much more standard and like that which we normally see from her on the birth of a new great-grandchild.
Those were my thoughts too. Everything was a brief and generic.

"Wishing them well at this time" struck me as very cool, which wouldn't be a surprise given Harry's trashing of Charles recently. That combined with using HM's personal private nickname? Hmm. They they immediately followed up by posting one of Camilla's patronages. Charles has written more personal condolence letters to people he's never met.

Then there's the Cambridges use of "Lili" no official acknowledgement of her full name for the first time.

Of course some of this might be because they found out at the same time the world did. There was nothing wrong with them but they weren't very personal.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were upset that not only was Lilibet now in the public domain but it's literally a domain name.

Then again I don't think we'll ever know HM's real feelings on it, even in her Christmas broadcast.
  #278  
Old 06-07-2021, 11:45 AM
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I would say she's not that happy wiht the name, but the use of an unofficial name is mild compared with the bashing that she has had from Harry in the past few months. So she's probalby not even gonna mention it to him. Im sure she's having a time recovering from Phil's death and remembering what horrible things her grandson's said lately.
  #279  
Old 06-07-2021, 11:51 AM
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I would say she's not that happy wiht the name, but the use of an unofficial name is mild compared with the bashing that she has had from Harry in the past few months. So she's probalby not even gonna mention it to him. Im sure she's having a time recovering from Phil's death and remembering what horrible things her grandson's said lately.
Yes, things like her being an awful parent to Charles and that making him an awful parent to himself and William yet he gives his daughter that name. What on Earth are he and his wife playing at? Seriously.
  #280  
Old 06-07-2021, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Those were my thoughts too. Everything was a brief and generic.

"Wishing them well at this time" struck me as very cool, which wouldn't be a surprise given Harry's trashing of Charles recently. That combined with using HM's personal private nickname? Hmm. They they immediately followed up by posting one of Camilla's patronages. Charles has written more personal condolence letters to people he's never met.

Then there's the Cambridges use of "Lili" no official acknowledgement of her full name for the first time.

Of course some of this might be because they found out at the same time the world did. There was nothing wrong with them but they weren't very personal.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were upset that not only was Lilibet now in the public domain but it's literally a domain name.

Then again I don't think we'll ever know HM's real feelings on it, even in her Christmas broadcast.
The impact the congratulations from the BRF in various places come across to me as being "standard" or "emotionless" or "generic" because it was for public consumption. Even the way they did it is cause for us to weigh and analyze their words and come up with a lot of "what ifs".

What we don't know is the level of personal congratulations that the family has shared privately since Lili's birth. For all we know, they've had zoom calls and got the see the newest addition and the proud parents beaming ear to ear and Archie even holding his baby sister (with help of course).
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