Birth of Lilibet “Lili” Diana Mountbatten-Windsor: June 4, 2021

[sophie25]

Whatever the motives behind it, it smacks (and reinforces) that H&M are neither creative nor secure enough to give their child a name that doesn't tie them all to the institution they've been professing to flee for the past year and a half, or even to allow their newborn daughter that freedom.

At worse, it's a deliberately cynical and calculated slap/cash-in.

That's a great summary of the situation.

 

[Erin9]

Well. I'm happy to hear that the baby arrived healthy and safely.

As for her name, well, what more would anyone expect. While I think we all expected her middle name to be Diana and rightly so, that first name is really something. I do think Lily would have been a nice choice. Still a tribute to HM if they really wanted to go there and sounds fabulous with Archie. However, using Lilibet is really a step too far. This was a private family nickname and while we've known for years that it was, indeed, HM's nickname, it was held for private use only by her absolute nearest and dearest. The use of it here feels intrusive and awkward, like we've stumbled into a private conversation not meant for our ears. And for the record, I would feel that way if any of HM's grandchildren used the name, not just these two. And that's to say nothing of the fact that it feels very contrived, calculated, disingenuous, and insincere. To have conscripted such a private and intimate thing for public consumption just feels...wrong. It would feel wrong no matter who chose to do it but in this case, from these two, it absolutely feels like the worst kind of PR stunt. I do wonder how it all went down behind palace walls.

Considering that the congratulations posts from the family felt a bit cool and reserved I'd wonder if it might not be going over terribly well. Or maybe that was just the fact that the two people who have gone out of their way to bash the monarchy and the entire family felt the need to conscript an intimate family nickname and then release the information on an official press release with a royal monogram at the top.

Well- I would think that any other member of the family would have surely asked HM if she had any objection to using her nickname if they wanted to use it to honor her. Maybe Harry and Meghan did. Though- their track record of doing whatever they want lately leads me to wonder. IOW- if she has no objection- why not use it.

What grates to me is simply using her name after months of attacks on their family. Your words to describe it sum up my feelings on how it comes across to me.

I noticed the royal monogram too at the top of the announcement. I couldn’t help but laugh. They bash the institution and family repeatedly- but they sure do love using the trappings of royalty when they can. They said it doesn’t matter....but IMO it clearly does. If they hate everything royal as much as they seem to in their interviews, you’d think they’d want to completely disassociate with everything royal. Funny how that hasn’t happened.

The congratulations posts seemed pretty standard to me. Admittedly- I just glanced at them. What made them sound a bit cool and reserved? I’m curious.

 

[_Heather_]

The congratulations posts seemed pretty standard to me. Admittedly- I just glanced at them. What made them sound a bit cool and reserved? I’m curious.

For me, it was a couple of things. Admittedly they were minor things but they stood out to my eye. Then again, I spend a lot of my time each day writing due to the nature of my job and those weird little things tend to jump out at me even when they seem pretty standard to others who maybe don't see them the same way. For instance, in the post from William and Catherine, it was two very short sentences, no emojis, no exclamation points. We know that they often use emojis much as they did in the birthday post for Archie and we can see by their other posts that they often use punctuation and emojis to express their tone, excitement, etc. In the post from Charles and Camilla, I again found the lack of exclamation point to be notable though they did use an emoji. What really struck me, though, was the last sentence "Wishing them all well at this time." That seems very cool, very distant. There's no excitement, no exclamation point. It almost reads like a get well soon message or even a message of condolence. It felt like something they would have written about an acquaintance or someone they know but not terribly intimately, certainly not something that feels like the celebration of the birth of a new grandchild. I would agree that the statement from HM seemed much more standard and like that which we normally see from her on the birth of a new great-grandchild.

 

[Denville]

I think that most of the RF will just offer polite congrats and best wishes, no more.

 

[Erin9]

For me, it was a couple of things. Admittedly they were minor things but they stood out to my eye. Then again, I spend a lot of my time each day writing due to the nature of my job and those weird little things tend to jump out at me even when they seem pretty standard to others who maybe don't see them the same way. For instance, in the post from William and Catherine, it was two very short sentences, no emojis, no exclamation points. We know that they often use emojis much as they did in the birthday post for Archie and we can see by their other posts that they often use punctuation and emojis to express their tone, excitement, etc. In the post from Charles and Camilla, I again found the lack of exclamation point to be notable though they did use an emoji. What really struck me, though, was the last sentence "Wishing them all well at this time." That seems very cool, very distant. There's no excitement, no exclamation point. It almost reads like a get well soon message or even a message of condolence. It felt like something they would have written about an acquaintance or someone they know but not terribly intimately, certainly not something that feels like the celebration of the birth of a new grandchild. I would agree that the statement from HM seemed much more standard and like that which we normally see from her on the birth of a new great-grandchild.

Thanks. Those are good observations.

 

[Prinsara]

That's a great summary of the situation.

It's also not just that Lilibet is HM's personal name and how she thinks of herself.

"Elizabeth" is arguably a standard, enduringly popular name with many different associations. Even that has some space for maneuvering.

"Lilibet" is only the Queen. No ifs, ands, or buts. There were no others until last Friday. And of all the names in the world Harry and Meghan could have given their daughter, that was the one they decided she absolutely had to have?

Just me, but I think HM would have considered it a real honor even if they'd named her Diana Philippa (and they could still have called her "Lili").

 

[Heavs]

For me, it was a couple of things. Admittedly they were minor things but they stood out to my eye. Then again, I spend a lot of my time each day writing due to the nature of my job and those weird little things tend to jump out at me even when they seem pretty standard to others who maybe don't see them the same way. For instance, in the post from William and Catherine, it was two very short sentences, no emojis, no exclamation points. We know that they often use emojis much as they did in the birthday post for Archie and we can see by their other posts that they often use punctuation and emojis to express their tone, excitement, etc. In the post from Charles and Camilla, I again found the lack of exclamation point to be notable though they did use an emoji. What really struck me, though, was the last sentence "Wishing them all well at this time." That seems very cool, very distant. There's no excitement, no exclamation point. It almost reads like a get well soon message or even a message of condolence. It felt like something they would have written about an acquaintance or someone they know but not terribly intimately, certainly not something that feels like the celebration of the birth of a new grandchild. I would agree that the statement from HM seemed much more standard and like that which we normally see from her on the birth of a new great-grandchild.

Those were my thoughts too. Everything was a brief and generic.

"Wishing them well at this time" struck me as very cool, which wouldn't be a surprise given Harry's trashing of Charles recently. That combined with using HM's personal private nickname? Hmm. They they immediately followed up by posting one of Camilla's patronages. Charles has written more personal condolence letters to people he's never met.

Then there's the Cambridges use of "Lili" no official acknowledgement of her full name for the first time.

Of course some of this might be because they found out at the same time the world did. There was nothing wrong with them but they weren't very personal.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were upset that not only was Lilibet now in the public domain but it's literally a domain name.

Then again I don't think we'll ever know HM's real feelings on it, even in her Christmas broadcast.

 

[Denville]

I would say she's not that happy wiht the name, but the use of an unofficial name is mild compared with the bashing that she has had from Harry in the past few months. So she's probalby not even gonna mention it to him. Im sure she's having a time recovering from Phil's death and remembering what horrible things her grandson's said lately.

 

[sophie25]

I would say she's not that happy wiht the name, but the use of an unofficial name is mild compared with the bashing that she has had from Harry in the past few months. So she's probalby not even gonna mention it to him. Im sure she's having a time recovering from Phil's death and remembering what horrible things her grandson's said lately.

Yes, things like her being an awful parent to Charles and that making him an awful parent to himself and William yet he gives his daughter that name. What on Earth are he and his wife playing at? Seriously.

 

[Osipi]

Those were my thoughts too. Everything was a brief and generic.

"Wishing them well at this time" struck me as very cool, which wouldn't be a surprise given Harry's trashing of Charles recently. That combined with using HM's personal private nickname? Hmm. They they immediately followed up by posting one of Camilla's patronages. Charles has written more personal condolence letters to people he's never met.

Then there's the Cambridges use of "Lili" no official acknowledgement of her full name for the first time.

Of course some of this might be because they found out at the same time the world did. There was nothing wrong with them but they weren't very personal.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were upset that not only was Lilibet now in the public domain but it's literally a domain name.

Then again I don't think we'll ever know HM's real feelings on it, even in her Christmas broadcast.

The impact the congratulations from the BRF in various places come across to me as being "standard" or "emotionless" or "generic" because it was for public consumption. Even the way they did it is cause for us to weigh and analyze their words and come up with a lot of "what ifs".

What we don't know is the level of personal congratulations that the family has shared privately since Lili's birth. For all we know, they've had zoom calls and got the see the newest addition and the proud parents beaming ear to ear and Archie even holding his baby sister (with help of course).

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

Nice alternatives might have been:
Lili Diana
Elizabeth Diana (they could have still used Lili as a nickname)
Eliza Diana
Elise Diana
Isabella Diana
Alexandra Diana
Diana Alexandra
Diana Elizabeth


I still think Lilibet would have been a lovely choice if they treated the Queen with love and respect, and could be assumed to have asked her permission.

Hopefully they will also take baby Lilibet to meet her namesake when the pandemic allows, because what's a name in honour of a great-grandmother if the girl does not get to actually develop a relationship with great-grandma because they keep the children away from the BRF?

 

[Osipi]

Hopefully they will also take baby Lilibet to meet her namesake when the pandemic allows, because what's a name in honour of a great-grandmother if the girl does not get to actually develop a relationship with great-grandma because they keep the children away from the BRF?

In all honestly, I don't see where it's going to be possible for little Lili to actually form a close relationship that she'll remember with her great grandmother and namesake. Kids don't really start remembering and keeping memories intact until around the age of 7.

Think about it, how much do you remember from before that age?

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

In all honestly, I don't see where it's going to be possible for little Lili to actually form a close relationship that she'll remember with her great grandmother and namesake. Kids don't really start remembering and keeping memories intact until around the age of 7.

Think about it, how much do you remember from before that age?

I don't think it's just about remembering. What I meant is that if you want to honour the great-grandmother, you should take the children to see her when possible. Otherwise saying you named the child to honour her, is really just lip-service and does not line up with actual actions.

But also, it's not just about remembering, what happens during the first years of a child's life is very influential, even if they don't remember it. Spending time with her great-grandmother would probably be a nice experience for Lilibet, even if it is not consciously remembered later or remembered just in fragments. She might also like to look at pictures of herself with the woman she was named after when she is older...

 

[Prinsara]

Quite a bit, actually.

It's very much dependent on the individual child, but consensus and neuroscience say you have conscious memories from about the age of 3. Even Charles claims to have one of George VI.

3 years from now is still quite a long way off. The question is whether Lili will even get to have any pictures with Gangan.

 

[camelot23ca]

Well. I'm happy to hear that the baby arrived healthy and safely.

As for her name, well, what more would anyone expect. While I think we all expected her middle name to be Diana and rightly so, that first name is really something. I do think Lily would have been a nice choice. Still a tribute to HM if they really wanted to go there and sounds fabulous with Archie. However, using Lilibet is really a step too far. This was a private family nickname and while we've known for years that it was, indeed, HM's nickname, it was held for private use only by her absolute nearest and dearest. The use of it here feels intrusive and awkward, like we've stumbled into a private conversation not meant for our ears. And for the record, I would feel that way if any of HM's grandchildren used the name, not just these two. And that's to say nothing of the fact that it feels very contrived, calculated, disingenuous, and insincere. To have conscripted such a private and intimate thing for public consumption just feels...wrong. It would feel wrong no matter who chose to do it but in this case, from these two, it absolutely feels like the worst kind of PR stunt. I do wonder how it all went down behind palace walls.

Considering that the congratulations posts from the family felt a bit cool and reserved I'd wonder if it might not be going over terribly well. Or maybe that was just the fact that the two people who have gone out of their way to bash the monarchy and the entire family felt the need to conscript an intimate family nickname and then release the information on an official press release with a royal monogram at the top.

Lillibet would seem odd to me coming from any of the grandchildren because none of them would know her as that. They would have grown up calling her something like Grannie or Grandma in private and their parents would address her as Mama. And a person who usually called her Lillibet would say something like, “I saw Grannie yesterday” or, “I had dinner with the Queen last week” when speaking to one of her grandchildren. Even someone like Philip would be more likely to say, “where’s your grandmother?” instead of, “where’s lillibet” to a grandchild. If Lillibet was a pet name used by the grandchildren themselves it would feel less forced to me, although still awkward in this particular case given everything that’s gone on.

It also seems strange that they gave the baby someone’s private nickname as her legal name but have made it clear they intend to call her by an actual name. Why not just name her Lily/Lili then?

Anyway, it’s good that everything went well and the baby is healthy. Hopefully they’re all settling in as a family of four and Archie is enjoying being a big brother!

 

[ACO]

I would guess they will visit later this year. We already know the family will be travelling next year, so no doubt with a stop in the UK. I mean people think they might be at the Jubilee. We shall see.

Also will she be christened like Archie was? Will they make that trip in a few months?

 

[Sandy345]

Too bad Harry and Meghan forgot to show kindness to his family when his grandfather was dying or when Charles and the queen was grieving. But hey they named her Lilibet. I guess that’s all the kindness they need.

Charles said much worse about his parents through Dimbleby authorized biography. They forgave him, his words are still out there for anybody who reads that book. Charles needs to consider that in his dealings with Harry. Whatever happened in that family or much of it will never be publicly known.

 

[Biri]

Both children have double citizenship, don't they?

 

[_Heather_]

Both children have double citizenship, don't they?

Most likely.

 

[ACO]

Both children have double citizenship, don't they?

Yes they do.

 

[RandyDrx]

Charles said much worse about his parents through Dimbleby authorized biography. They forgave him, his words are still out there for anybody who reads that book. Charles needs to consider that in his dealings with Harry. Whatever happened in that family or much of it will never be publicly known.

Last time I check, Charles didn't say those things when his parents were GRIEVING. Also, Charles only went after his parents while Harry went after the whole family AND the institution, so Harry is worse IMO.

 

[Osipi]

It just seems kind of odd to me to have Harry make the statement that he's left the UK and royal work behind because he needs to "break the cycle of genetic pain and suffering" (or however he worded it), yet he gives his daughter a name that reflects the people that he felt he needed to get away from.

Methinks Harry is confused and doesn't know which way is up sometimes.

 

[Sandy345]

I had the impression that Harry's grievances were with Charles and William. Not the entire family.

 

[Blog Real]

When will Harry and Meghan release a photo of Lilibet Diana?

 

[Erin9]

I had the impression that Harry's grievances were with Charles and William. Not the entire family.

Harry has called Charles and William out by name....and generically included “family” in a litany of other grievances. Along with the institution itself. No one has been spared.

 

[Sandy345]

When will Harry and Meghan release a photo of Lilibet Diana?

A family photo would be cute, with Harry, Meghan, Archie, and Lili.

 

[Blog Real]

Nice alternatives might have been:
Lili Diana
Elizabeth Diana (they could have still used Lili as a nickname)
Eliza Diana
Elise Diana
Isabella Diana
Alexandra Diana
Diana Alexandra
Diana Elizabeth


I still think Lilibet would have been a lovely choice if they treated the Queen with love and respect, and could be assumed to have asked her permission.

Hopefully they will also take baby Lilibet to meet her namesake when the pandemic allows, because what's a name in honour of a great-grandmother if the girl does not get to actually develop a relationship with great-grandma because they keep the children away from the BRF?

I like Diana Elizabeth and Elizabeth Diana. Isabella Diana is also a beautiful name.

 

[Erin9]

It just seems kind of odd to me to have Harry make the statement that he's left the UK and royal work behind because he needs to "break the cycle of genetic pain and suffering" (or however he worded it), yet he gives his daughter a name that reflects the people that he felt he needed to get away from.



Methinks Harry is confused and doesn't know which way is up sometimes.

I have trouble applying logic to a lot of their decisions. They often seem to be both contradictory....and predictable in a way.

 

[ACO]

When will Harry and Meghan release a photo of Lilibet Diana?

Maybe on Father's Day? I assume they will in the next week or so. We shall see.

 

[_Heather_]

When will Harry and Meghan release a photo of Lilibet Diana?

I believe Scobie said they aren't planning to anytime soon. But who knows. I find these two to often be quite contradictory so I wouldn't rule out seeing one soon, though I don't anticipate it being anything more than possibly her hand, her foot, the back of her head. It's almost guaranteed to be black and white. I certainly wouldn't expect to see an actual full on face shot or a shot in color and definitely wouldn't expect a traditional family portrait.