The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #801  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:11 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I think it's more an issue of confusion. Archie has a (courtesy) title, whether it is used for him or not, and he will be an HRH at the death of the Queen, whether it is used or not. All of this is true since no LP's have been issued to change that. Hence, the confusion. There's a discrepancy that is putting everything up in the air, and what it means and what the Sussexes intend by it is all open to interpretation. Whenever there is ambiguity it opens the door to conjecture. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
But is there confusion? I do think it's clear they are going with Master Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor. He is entitled to the title, and we all know what it is, but he's not being known as that.

On a different note. If little Archie grows up and decides, you know what, I want to be known as Earl of Dumbarton before I'm Duke of Sussex, I believe the Sussexes would be supportive of his choice.
__________________

  #802  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:11 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I think it's more an issue of confusion. Archie has a (courtesy) title, whether it is used for him or not, and he will be an HRH at the death of the Queen, whether it is used or not. All of this is true since no LP's have been issued to change that. Hence, the confusion. There's a discrepancy that is putting everything up in the air, and what it means and what the Sussexes intend by it is all open to interpretation. Whenever there is ambiguity it opens the door to conjecture. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
I mean I guess. I don't get saying they need to renounce their titles because they don't want their baby to be HRH when he will likely never be a working royal. It just seems extreme to me but to each their own.
__________________

  #803  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:13 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,909
If I'm not mistaken ITV said the decision on titles was made between The Queen, Harry, Charles and William.

If I got that right it probably means the decision on Archie's style has been made into the next reign.
  #804  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:13 PM
Zaira's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: A, United States
Posts: 1,216
Papers are running with the powerful, lovely and historic image of the Queen, Philip, Harry/Meghan/Doria and little Archie.

I've seen lots of comments from British folks online (and in my personal life) about how meaningful the pic is. People saying they see their families reflected for the first time at the national level/in the BRF.

Really, its been a moving day.
  #805  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:14 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Memphis, United States
Posts: 12
I don’t really think the comparisons to Anne and her children are totally correct either. At the end of the day, Peter Phillips was born and will die without a title. The same cannot be said of Archie. He will be Duke of Sussex one day, if not Prince. The comparisons to Margaret are more fair and her children were known as Viscount Linley and Lady Sarah at birth. And I don’t buy that it inherently affords you more privacy. “Lady” Sarah Chatto leads a more private life than “Mrs.” Zara Tindall.

I’m not arguing as some above that Harry and Meghan should renounce all titles. Obviously they’re still working royals. But if they really want Archie to go without a title they could have not accepted a dukedom that forces him to have one one day. Or maybe the Queen could have stated at their wedding that the Sussex dukedom was non-inheritable and one-off for Harry.
  #806  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:16 PM
Ista's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: the West, United States
Posts: 3,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
But is there confusion? I do think it's clear they are going with Master Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor. He is entitled to the title, and we all know what it is, but he's not being known as that.
Well, clearly there is, as we've seen by the pages of discussion about it. If there had been an announcement that he was going to be known as Archie Harrison etc, but would assume the courtesy title at a later point, there would have been more clarity. As it is now, there are lots of questions. As we see.
  #807  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:17 PM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 10,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
At this point, I doubt the Sussexes ever plan to give their son Archie either a courtesy nobility title, nor a royal title. But we shall see. Perhaps his parents want Archie to make the decision on his own, when he's reached a certain age.
They have no say in that. As eldest son and heir of the 1st Duke of Sussex, the baby IS Lord Archie Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Dumbarton, future 2nd Duke of Sussex.

The point is that Harry and Meghan can not say "we do not want a title for Archie". They have no authority about that and the titles bestowed are not Harry's. They as much Archie's future titles as they are Harry's present titles, as the Letters Patent goes way beyond the current holder of these peerages.

Of course, Harry and Meghan can say: just call him Archie. But this private preference does not wipe out thay their son is the Heir to three peerages and is by convention and jurisdiction what he is.
  #808  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:17 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,470
Name surprised me. Lack of title did not. I think it is right that only the future children of the monarch should be a prince or princess. Actually I think only a child of a monarch should be and titLes upgraded as. A grandchild, but whose parent will be monarch, a lord or lady and then upgraded when parent becomes monarch. The rest can just not have them. If they won't work for the monarchy, then why would they. A lot has changed in the past ten years.
  #809  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:18 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
If I'm not mistaken ITV said the decision on titles was made between The Queen, Harry, Charles and William.

If I got that right it probably means the decision on Archie's style has been made into the next reign.
I haven't heard that but I did see Chris Ship and other royal correspondents clarify that no decision on his future HRH status has been discussed. So basically nothing has occurred to prevent him from having it once Charles is king. It is not like the Wessexes in that case though they might make it official when that times comes.
  #810  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:18 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Memphis, United States
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I mean I guess. I don't get saying they need to renounce their titles because they don't want their baby to be HRH when he will likely never be a working royal. It just seems extreme to me but to each their own.
I think very few people here are advocating for Archie to be an HRH or a Prince. That is the title most people were against him having, for his own sake. Most of us are wondering about a subsidiary title, something used by not only the royal family but almost every Dukedom, Marquisette and Earldom in Britain.

There’s a big gap between being HRH Prince Archie and Archie, Earl of Dumbarton.
  #811  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:19 PM
Ista's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: the West, United States
Posts: 3,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I mean I guess. I don't get saying they need to renounce their titles because they don't want their baby to be HRH when he will likely never be a working royal. It just seems extreme to me but to each their own.
I don't see the need for the Sussexes to renounce anything, either, but I understand why some are perplexed by the whole thing.
  #812  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:21 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
If I'm not mistaken ITV said the decision on titles was made between The Queen, Harry, Charles and William.

If I got that right it probably means the decision on Archie's style has been made into the next reign.
Chris Ship also said Archie will in time become HRH when Charles becomes sovereign. Unless there is a source they are using that's telling them this, it seems they are all just assuming. Even on how the decision would come about. Queen and Charles I can believe. But why would William be consulted if his nephew is Master or Lord or Earl of Dumbarton?

Personally, I doubt most of them will care even if there is another HRH in the future. One, the Queen can put a stop to all this right now if she wanted. She can issue an LP to further limit HRHs, she hasn't. And on this issue, any future monarchs must live with the decisions before their time. The only thing they would care about is this child will not be working royal when they are monarch as they would be supporting them.

I think at the end of the day, they are all making assumptions as we are here. BP isn't addressing this right now with the public.
  #813  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:23 PM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
If I'm not mistaken ITV said the decision on titles was made between The Queen, Harry, Charles and William.

If I got that right it probably means the decision on Archie's style has been made into the next reign.

Perhaps a future monarch wants to honor Archie at a later point in time?
  #814  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:25 PM
helenw's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 144
Archie was born on George Clooney’s birthday, and my husband just pointed out that the character Clooney played in Three Kings was Archie.

Just a thought. 😉
  #815  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:29 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Even on how the decision would come about. Queen and Charles I can believe. But why woud William be consulted if his nephew is Master or Lord or Earl of Dumbarton
William would be consulted because Harry's children will fall under his reign.
  #816  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:30 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
Well, clearly there is, as we've seen by the pages of discussion about it. If there had been an announcement that he was going to be known as Archie Harrison etc, but would assume the courtesy title at a later point, there would have been more clarity. As it is now, there are lots of questions. As we see.
Based on what I've seen from official channel, it doesn't appear that Harry and Meghan have any intention to add Earl of Dumbarton in the future until it's time for Archie to inherit the title as his or have said anything that leads people to believe they would. And it's not a confusion that he would eventually become Duke of Sussex, Earl of Dumbarton, and Baron Kilkeel as the LP explicitly states how that will work. It'll take a legislation of Parliament to change it.

The confusion comes from what others are saying right now, which is more in reference to HRH Prince Archie of Sussex when Charles becomes king. At this point, it is premature to announce that.

But a lot of what I'm seeing isn't confusion (there are some), but a lot of it is just anger at the situation it seems. People seem to have a difficult time accepting that he'll just be Master Archie rather than Lord Archie.
  #817  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:32 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 6,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
But is there confusion? I do think it's clear they are going with Master Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor. He is entitled to the title, and we all know what it is, but he's not being known as that.

On a different note. If little Archie grows up and decides, you know what, I want to be known as Earl of Dumbarton before I'm Duke of Sussex, I believe the Sussexes would be supportive of his choice.
It is unrealistic to believe he will go against his parents’ wish and decide he wants to be called Lord Dumbarton instead of Mr Archie Mountbatten-Windsor . And, as others have said, if he does , the
Media will say he is being pushy ( it would definitely backfire against poor Archie).

I also think that decision seals the deal about Archie not becoming an HRH in the future.
  #818  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:33 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
William would be consulted because Harry's children will fall under his reign.
But we aren't talking about HRH. And again, I don't see why anyone who have strong objections either way on HRH. As long as they don't have to fund him, why does it matter? Like I said, if anyone feels so strongly about it, they should just encourage the Queen to issue a new LP. It'll solve the problem for good.

As it stands, it brings up the question if a monarch can at will take away someone's HRH status if they haven't reached it yet? If not, and she certainly hasn't commented either way, do we really think the first order of business for Charles the minute his mother passes will be to take away his grandchild's HRH status? Because by LP, he has it the minute Charles becomes King.
  #819  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:37 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,293
It may sound very weird but I'm having a flashback to all the outrage way back when a lot of Mrs. suddenly decided to become Ms. As Archie Bunker said "a near Miss".

The kid is going on a whopping 4 days old. We'll see what develops when it happens.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
  #820  
Old 05-08-2019, 06:37 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
It is unrealistic to believe he will go against his parents’ wish and decide he wants to be called Lord Dumbarton instead of Mr Archie Mountbatten-Windsor . And, as others have said, if he does , the
Media will say he is being pushy ( it would definitely backfire against poor Archie).

I also think that decision seals the deal about Archie not becoming an HRH in the future.
Why would he need to announce it to the media? He is a private individual after all. Unrealistic a child would go against the wish of his parents at some point? We've all been teenagers right?

I'm not saying this is the issue he's going to pick up, but I'm just saying theoretically, it's his decision when he's old enough to understand.
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Windsor/Mountbatten-Windsor: Name of Royal House and Surname HRH Kimetha British Royals 298 04-06-2021 10:39 PM
Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor News and Pictures 3: October 2005-March 2007 Elspeth Current Events Archive 195 06-07-2007 08:24 AM
Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor News and Pictures 2: May 2004-October 2005 USCtrojan Current Events Archive 220 10-10-2005 10:51 PM
Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor News and Pictures 1: November 2003-May 2004 montecarlo Current Events Archive 157 05-29-2004 01:38 PM




Popular Tags
#royalrelatives #royalgenes american baby names biography britain britannia british royal family buckingham palace camilla's family camilla parker bowles canada china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing clarence house cpr dna doge of venice dubai duchess of sussex duke of cambridge duke of sussex earl of snowdon edward vii elizabeth ii emperor family life family tree fashion and style george vi gradenigo hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume history hochberg hypothetical monarchs jewellery jewelry kensington palace king willem-alexander list of rulers mary: crown princess of denmark maxima mountbatten names nepal nepalese royal family plantinum jubilee pless prince charles of luxembourg prince harry princess ariane princess chulabhorn princess dita princess eugenie princess laurentien princess of orange queen louise resusci anne royal court royal jewels royalty of taiwan russian court dress solomon j solomon spain stuart thailand thai royal family unfinished portrait united states united states of america wales


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:09 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×