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  #81  
Old 11-17-2018, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Iolanthe View Post
If I understand the article well enough, it's more or less an advertising/promotion piece. So Nikolai makes advertising now? Isn't that a bit... unusual for a Danish royal?
And didn't he get a Twingo for his 18th birthday? (I don't want to judge his car choices, because I really don't know anything about the circumstances and his needs, I am just a bit confused and want to understand)
He did get a Twingo. So I don't understand either what he would need a subscription car for - many of his age group might be tempted to subscribe for a car though.

And you are right, this a very much promotion. So unless this little piece has been written without an OK from Nikolai, this is advertising IMO.
And since he is basically lending his name - and title - I predict there will be a little controversy in the press.
This is something Christian in particular and M&F's children in general would not be able to get away with!
But Nikolai is pretty far down the pecking order and officially not a working royal. However, this is something not even Elisabeth ever did. And the two are very much comparable status-wise.
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  #82  
Old 11-17-2018, 07:10 AM
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me too. Looks indeed as if Nikolai was hired as a model to promote Sixt and because of him being a prince they both use him as the model and the famous name.

Indeed, even more weird considering he already has a car, so he doesn't need to rent to figure out what type of car he needs...
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  #83  
Old 11-17-2018, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
He did get a Twingo. So I don't understand either what he would need a subscription car for - many of his age group might be tempted to subscribe for a car though.

And you are right, this a very much promotion. So unless this little piece has been written without an OK from Nikolai, this is advertising IMO.
And since he is basically lending his name - and title - I predict there will be a little controversy in the press.
This is something Christian in particular and M&F's children in general would not be able to get away with!
But Nikolai is pretty far down the pecking order and officially not a working royal. However, this is something not even Elisabeth ever did. And the two are very much comparable status-wise.
I presume that Nikolai advertising for Sixt is similar to YouTubers and other social media influencers being given cars in return to advertise them on their channels/platforms (in addition to any current cars they already have). I wonder if Nikolai kept his Sixt car after he advertised for them, otherwise it seems a little odd for someone to have two cars at his age.
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  #84  
Old 11-17-2018, 06:03 PM
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You could perhaps argue that it's a kind of infomercial for fellow students, most of which do not have the financial means Nikolai has.

Without having had time to check it further, it seems to me that a car that you subscribe to is very much aimed at young people, and probably especially students.
It's my impression that it's cheaper, and easier to deal with than leasing or renting a car. - There are probably some conditions, like the cars being older. And that the car is on a "when you need it only" basis.
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  #85  
Old 11-17-2018, 06:43 PM
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Even if the product is a good one. I would say that a member of the royal family shouldn't actively promote products for his own advantage (i.e. to get lots of money - just because of his name).

It would be different if he himself had his own business because in that case promotion would just be part of the job (like Märtha Louise with her Angel School or Bernhard with Levi9). In this case he was hired to promote a product just because he is a prince - and has no relationship in any other way.

Is there any discussion in Denmark about Nikolai's choices in this regard?
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  #86  
Old 11-17-2018, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
He did get a Twingo. So I don't understand either what he would need a subscription car for - many of his age group might be tempted to subscribe for a car though.

And you are right, this a very much promotion. So unless this little piece has been written without an OK from Nikolai, this is advertising IMO.
And since he is basically lending his name - and title - I predict there will be a little controversy in the press.
This is something Christian in particular and M&F's children in general would not be able to get away with!
But Nikolai is pretty far down the pecking order and officially not a working royal. However, this is something not even Elisabeth ever did. And the two are very much comparable status-wise.

agree.
sign, sorry but it looks cheap.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsJeKAXX4AAKruh.jpg:large
I hope he doesn't go down that route of prompting everything he is wearing or using like all others on instagram.
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  #87  
Old 11-17-2018, 10:17 PM
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Even if the product is a good one. I would say that a member of the royal family shouldn't actively promote products for his own advantage (i.e. to get lots of money - just because of his name).

It would be different if he himself had his own business because in that case promotion would just be part of the job (like Märtha Louise with her Angel School or Bernhard with Levi9). In this case he was hired to promote a product just because he is a prince - and has no relationship in any other way.

Is there any discussion in Denmark about Nikolai's choices in this regard?
I haven't seen anything at all so far.

And admittedly I don't think it's a good idea for Nikolai to promote products.
If he want to go the way of an influencer, it would be better if he ditched the royal title. Count of Montpezat can do commercials, but not a prince.

I should like to know whether he has spoken with Alexandra or Joachim about this. I doubt it.
So he may be in for a major telling-off!

But having said that, you are allowed to make mistakes when you are young. And I know from experience that guys (and girls?) that age can be pretty oblivious to what should otherwise be considered self-evident.
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  #88  
Old 11-18-2018, 07:27 AM
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One concern with Nikolai giving up his title is that in that case the expectation surely would be for his siblings to do the same while they might aspire careers that are perfectly fine for a prince or princess.

However, you might be right that part of these rather incosiderate actions might be related to his age. Nonetheless, in that case his parents or grandmother should explain his responsibilities as a prince of Denmark and the limitations that brings (next to many advantages).
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  #89  
Old 11-18-2018, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
One concern with Nikolai giving up his title is that in that case the expectation surely would be for his siblings to do the same while they might aspire careers that are perfectly fine for a prince or princess.

However, you might be right that part of these rather incosiderste actions might be related to his age. Nonetheless, in that case his parents or grandmother should explain his responsibilities as a prince of Denmark and the limitations that brings (next to many advantages).

Coincidentally, the issue of royals giving up their titles is also being discussed now in another Swedish forum. My question here is the same I asked in that other forum: is that legally possible in the Scandinavian monarchies ?


Queen Anne-Marie gave up her place in the line of succession when she married King Constantine. but the legal backing for her renunciation was that she had converted to the Greek Orthodox faith and, therefore, was no longer eligible to succeed to the Danish throne. Since the Danish Act of Succession does not provide for unilateral renunciation of succession rights, I believe the only options available to Nikolai would be to leave the Lutheran church as her great-aunt did, or get married in a few years without asking for the Queen's consent declared in a Council of State.


On the point of someone explaining to him "his responsabilities as a prince of Denmark", I'm afraid his mother actually encourages or has been supportive of his latest decisions (pursuing a modeling career, leaving the army, endorsing commercial products, etc.). With Frederik and Mary having four children, Nikolai is already 7th in the line of succession and will get increasingly lower in the future, so I guess the Queen and the Court don't really care too much about his antics. His father should be more concerned though and maybe he is the one who should talk to Nikolai about it.
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  #90  
Old 11-18-2018, 10:20 AM
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Yes, they can give up their titles in several way.

Queen Anne-Marie gave up her place in the Line of Succession by default. I.e. converting from the Lutheran variant of Christendom.
Should she, albeit unlikely, divorce King Constantine and live in DK, it would be up to QMII to decide her title. Probably Princess of Denmark.

Princess Elisabeth considered marrying and thus giving up her title by default. I.e. marrying a commoner - with the unspoken precedence set by Frederik IX that it meant giving up the royal title.

QMII can at any time strip any member of her family of their titles, except for the Crown Prince. Frederik titles and status is secure by law.
So she can strip Nikolai of his title if she wants to.

There is nothing to hinder Nikolai from "requesting"/genuinely requesting QMII to strip him of his royal title. That's considered a matter within the family by the politicians. - Who might very well see the sensible thing in reducing the number of royals anyway, so I doubt there will be many protests.
It would be another matter if she decided to strip Frederik's children of their titles, without very good reason. (And here Christian would a major "no go!")

I can imagine there is a quiet agreement within the family that Joachim's children will be stripped of their royal titles upon marriage. Which is likely to take place during Frederik's reign.
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  #91  
Old 11-18-2018, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Coincidentally, the issue of royals giving up their titles is also being discussed now in another Swedish forum. My question here is the same I asked in that other forum: is that legally possible in the Scandinavian monarchies ?
Would you agree that Joachim's children could give up their titles but remain in the line of succession? It seems that would be a novelty for Denmark. I prefer consistency and while the current prince each have 4 children, I'd rather be on the safe side and make sure that the new standard is that all children and grandchildren of the monarch are in the line of the throne (it will be interesting to see what happens with Isabella's children regarding titles).

Quote:
On the point of someone explaining to him "his responsabilities as a prince of Denmark", I'm afraid his mother actually encourages or has been supportive of his latest decisions (pursuing a modeling career, leaving the army, endorsing commercial products, etc.). With Frederik and Mary having four children, Nikolai is already 7th in the line of succession and will get increasingly lower in the future, so I guess the Queen and the Court don't really care too much about his antics. His father should be more concerned though and maybe he is the one who should talk to Nikolai about it.
Do you think his mother is encouraging him because she seems to be going the same route? Imo if Joachim doesn't step up grandma Margrethe should have a good conversation about certain commercial (and other) behaviors/endeavors not being compatible with being a member of the royal family.
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  #92  
Old 11-18-2018, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
And you are right, this a very much promotion. So unless this little piece has been written without an OK from Nikolai, this is advertising IMO.
And since he is basically lending his name - and title - I predict there will be a little controversy in the press.
This is something Christian in particular and M&F's children in general would not be able to get away with!
But Nikolai is pretty far down the pecking order and officially not a working royal. However, this is something not even Elisabeth ever did. And the two are very much comparable status-wise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Even if the product is a good one. I would say that a member of the royal family shouldn't actively promote products for his own advantage (i.e. to get lots of money - just because of his name).

It would be different if he himself had his own business because in that case promotion would just be part of the job (like Märtha Louise with her Angel School or Bernhard with Levi9). In this case he was hired to promote a product just because he is a prince - and has no relationship in any other way.

Is there any discussion in Denmark about Nikolai's choices in this regard?
An interesting discussion. I agree that Nikolai, as a member of the royal family, has the same status as Elisabeth had: first cousin of the future monarch in their generation, HH Prince/ss of Denmark, a member of the Royal House, and in the line of succession with several cousins ahead of them.

Therefore, why have Queen Margrethe II's decisions changed regarding the status of working royal (Elisabeth was one) and acceptable career choice (since Nikolai's advertising promotions using his title would not have been allowed for Elisabeth) for royals of their status?

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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
QMII can at any time strip any member of her family of their titles, except for the Crown Prince. Frederik titles and status is secure by law.
Is there a law regulating his titles? The Constitution does not require male heirs to the throne to use the title of Crown Prince. It does secure the succession rights of all people in the line of succession (not only the Crown Prince).
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  #93  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:19 PM
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Is there a law regulating his titles? The Constitution does not require male heirs to the throne to use the title of Crown Prince. It does secure the succession rights of all people in the line of succession (not only the Crown Prince).
Yes.
The law is very specific. The Monarch cannot by his/her own decision change the status of the heir. That status is guaranteed by law. (Presumably that was to avoid a civil war, should a king fall out with his son and cut him off. Resulting in factions fighting for the new heir or the old heir.)
As such the official title of the heir, whatever that may be at any given time (i.e. The Heir or The Crown Prince/ss or The Successor etc.) is also secure.

So QMII can't do anything about Frederik becoming the next king. Not legally, that is. - Even if she should hate every single atom in his petulant body!
There are other ways to rid of him, but that would involve the Parliament and the courts. And that's besides the scope of this thread.
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  #94  
Old 11-18-2018, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Do you think his mother is encouraging him because she seems to be going the same route? Imo if Joachim doesn't step up grandma Margrethe should have a good conversation about certain commercial (and other) behaviors/endeavors not being compatible with being a member of the royal family.
Alexandra seems to be going down the same route. I doubt she'll be of much help. I agree, Joachim (and/or QM) should have a talk with his son.

I hope this isn't the route the members of the next generation of the DRF (or any other royal families) will be taking.
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  #95  
Old 11-18-2018, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Yes.
The law is very specific. The Monarch cannot by his/her own decision change the status of the heir. That status is guaranteed by law. (Presumably that was to avoid a civil war, should a king fall out with his son and cut him off. Resulting in factions fighting for the new heir or the old heir.)

[...]

So QMII can't do anything about Frederik becoming the next king. Not legally, that is. - Even if she should hate every single atom in his petulant body!
There are other ways to rid of him, but that would involve the Parliament and the courts. And that's besides the scope of this thread.
I agree! However, if the definition of "status" is "place in the line of succession", the Queen cannot change anyone's status by her own decision, even someone as far down the line of succession as Prince Nikolai. The Constitution does not allow the monarch to unilaterally make the decision to strip the succession rights of any person, unless she does so by denying her consent to their marriage (which is also required for the marriage of the Crown Prince). So, the status (in the line of succession) of Nikolai, Felix, Henrik, or Athena is as much guaranteed by law as Frederik's.

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As such the official title of the heir, whatever that may be at any given time (i.e. The Heir or The Crown Prince/ss or The Successor etc.) is also secure.
If there is a law requiring the heir to have the title The Crown Prince/ss, I would appreciate a link to it (or the name of the law if it is unavailable online), since I've been led to believe that it is the prerogative of the Danish monarch to regulate royal titles, including the titles of the heir.
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  #96  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:01 PM
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I agree! However, if the definition of "status" is "place in the line of succession", the Queen cannot change anyone's status by her own decision, even someone as far down the line of succession as Prince Nikolai. The Constitution does not allow the monarch to unilaterally make the decision to strip the succession rights of any person, unless she does so by denying her consent to their marriage (which is also required for the marriage of the Crown Prince). So, the status (in the line of succession) of Nikolai, Felix, Henrik, or Athena is as much guaranteed by law as Frederik's.

If there is a law requiring the heir to have the title The Crown Prince/ss, I would appreciate a link to it (or the name of the law if it is unavailable online), since I've been led to believe that it is the prerogative of the Danish monarch to regulate royal titles, including the titles of the heir.
No, only the heir is protected from being stripped of his status by the monarch by law. Those further down the line are not.
I have written about this several times before with referenced to the specific paragraph and a translation.
I don't have time to find the specific link right now. That I'll leave to someone else.
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  #97  
Old 11-18-2018, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
No, only the heir is protected from being stripped of his status by the monarch by law. Those further down the line are not.
I have written about this several times before with referenced to the specific paragraph and a translation.
I don't have time to find the specific link right now. That I'll leave to someone else.

Here is the link to the English version of the Constitution, including the Act of Succession.

https://www.thedanishparliament.dk/~...3,-d-,pdf.ashx

From the link, here is the full Act of Succession. It does not appear (to me) to give the rights of those further down the line any less protection than the rights of the crown prince, but I am open to any explanation.


THE ACT ON SUCCESSION TO THE THRONE OF THE KINGDOM OF DENMARK OF MARCH 27th 1953, AMENDED ON JUNE 12th 2009
§ 1
The throne shall be inherited by the descendants of King Christian X and Queen Alexandrine.
§ 2
(1) Upon the death of a King or a reigning Queen, the throne shall pass to his/her son or daughter, the elder child taking precedence over the younger child.
(2) If one of the King’s or reigning Queen’s children has died, the issue of the deceased person shall take his/her place according to lineal descent and to the rules laid down in Sub-section 1.
§ 3
If a King or a reigning Queen dies without issue who is entitled to inherit the throne, the brother or sister of the King or reigning Queen shall succeed to the throne. If the King or the reigning Queen has several brothers or sisters or if some of their respective brothers or sisters have died, the rules laid down in Section 2 shall apply correspondingly.
§ 4
If no person is entitled to succeed to the throne in accordance with the provisions laid down in Sections 2 and 3, the throne shall pass to the nearest collateral descendants of King Christian X and Queen Alexandrine according to lineal descent, the elder person taking precedence over the younger in accordance with Sections 2 and 3.
§ 5
(1) Only children born in lawful wedlock are entitled to succeed to the throne.
(2) The King or the reigning Queen shall not marry without the consent of the Folketing.
(3) If a person who is entitled to succeed to the throne decides to marry without the King’s or reigning Queen’s consent which shall be given during a meeting of the Council of State, he/she forfeits his/her right to succeed to the throne and so do his/her children born in lawful wedlock and their issue.
§ 6
If a King or a reigning Queen decides to abdicate, the provisions in Sections 2-5 shall apply.
§ 7
This Act enters into force conjointly with the Constitutional Act of the Kingdom of Denmark of June 5th 1953.
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  #98  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:17 PM
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Look at the older versions of §2.

There it is specified that the Monarch cannot remove the Heir from the Line of Succession. - That is now simplified to say that the Heir will take over - period!
The reason for this specification was and is that it is up the monarch to decide what titles the members of her family gets - except of course the Heir. I.e. Frederik because the law says he will become the next king. Period!
But there is nothing to hinder QMII from stripping say Mary of her title as Crown Princess, and decide she should only be Countess of Montpezat. - She is still married to the crown Prince, only with a lesser title.
Nor is there anything to hinder her from stripping Joachim from his title of Prince to Denmark. - It would cause a stir alright! But she can do it.
Should Frederik's line somehow become extinct next week, it will be Joachim's line, the Parliament will look at first when considering who to select as candidate for the next king - even though Joachim is no longer officially listed on the Line of Succession.
Keep in mind the Count Ingolf was also officially in the Line of Succession.

There simply is no such thing as the 274th in line for the throne in Denmark, like there is in Britain. It has been simplified.

However, the Parliament would no doubt cough disapprovingly should QMII consider stripping M&F's children of their titles. Especially Christian!
But how about Isabella's grandchildren, should she have any? Should they remain officially listed in The Line of Succession? Still be princes/princesses even though Christian has grandchildren of his own in this hypothetical future?

It's a question of practicality.

It will probably be Frederik who will have to decide one day what titles Joachim's children and their spouses will have. And I'm pretty certain he will "cut the list short" at that point.
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  #99  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:51 PM
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Hmm, the press release from SiXT has been deleted from the internet ...
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  #100  
Old 11-18-2018, 04:56 PM
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I understood the discussion of the last few posts to be about succession, not titles. Succession is regulated by the Act of Succession, while titles are not. The Act of Succession provides that Frederik will become the next king, but his title of Crown Prince was not decided by the Act of Succession (the Act of Succession does not use the word Crown Prince).

I agree that, theoretically, Queen Margrethe II could strip Prince Joachim of his title. However, the Act of Succession does not give her the prerogative to remove him from the line of succession (unless she denies him consent to marry a third time and he marries without her consent, the same way Count Ingolf was removed from the line of succession).

As you also pointed out, the Act of Succession decides that Frederik will become the next king, regardless of what the Queen or Parliament desires. It decides the whole line of succession the same way: If something happened to Margrethe, Frederik, and Frederik's children, Joachim would become king under the Act of Succession, no matter what Queen Margrethe II had decided about Joachim's title.
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