Prince Joachim, Current Events Part 3: June 2016 -

[muriel]

To me, Joachim's move makes complete sense. This move allows him to carve out a career for himself independent of the DRF, in the medium term. That career could be as a career Defece Attache, serving first in France and subsequently, in other locations. Alternatively, after this 3 year posting, he could take other Defence related roles.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by muriel

To me, Joachim's move makes complete sense. This move allows him to carve out a career for himself independent of the DRF, in the medium term. That career could be as a career Defece Attache, serving first in France and subsequently, in other locations. Alternatively, after this 3 year posting, he could take other Defence related roles.

But have an apanage anyway...?
Shouldn't he have chosen the salary to be completely independent of the DRF?

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Nordic

But have an apanage anyway...?
Shouldn't he have chosen the salary to be completely independent of the DRF?

It may be that as Muhler proposed, this is a trial period and Prince Joachim is not fully committed to permanently settling in France. If Denmark is comparable to other democracies, I imagine it is politically more attractive for Parliamant to withdraw an apanage than to restore an apanage to a royal who renounced taxpayer funding years earlier. Preserving the apanage for the time being smooths the way for Prince Joachim to return to Denmark as a working royal in three years, if he wishes.

[muriel]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

It may be that as Muhler proposed, this is a trial period and Prince Joachim is not fully committed to permanently settling in France. If Denmark is comparable to other democracies, I imagine it is politically more attractive for Parliamant to withdraw an apanage than to restore an apanage to a royal who renounced taxpayer funding years earlier. Preserving the apanage for the time being smooths the way for Prince Joachim to return to Denmark as a working royal in three years, if he wishes.

Fair point.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

If Denmark is comparable to other democracies, I imagine it is politically more attractive for Parliamant to withdraw an apanage than to restore an apanage to a royal who renounced taxpayer funding years earlier. Preserving the apanage for the time being smooths the way for Prince Joachim to return to Denmark as a working royal in three years, if he wishes.

Yes, of course. On the other hand, if he has already decided that he is not coming back to be a working royal and the PM has already promised him the apanage as long as he is working as an attache (or something else) in Paris (or somewhere else), it could be, that a Danish apanage is paid abroad for the 10-15 years until he retires. I assume the apanage is bigger than what a salary would have been, or?

[Muhler]

The apanage is considerably higher than a defence attache's (and brigadiers) salary, but not overwhelmingly so, as Joachim has to pay for the expenses for him and Marie when on the job for the DRF.
And as he is not getting a salary he won't get expenses to housing and schooling of his children covered either, which is normal for diplomats stationed abroad.
However as he will have next to no expenses for a staff and doesn't pay vat nor taxes of his apanage, he should be able to live a quite comfortable life even if he had no private fortune - which he has.
J&M are in no danger of having to live of crackers at the end of the month.

I don't know the living-expense level in Paris but I don't imagine it can be much higher than Copenhagen - on the contrary more likely.

-----------------

A Prince Henrik Art Gallery?

Well, speaking only for myself, I would find that quite inappropriate now as well as in 20 years.
Not for personal profit.

[maria-olivia]

Copenhagen is more expensive than Paris

[Duke of Marmalade]

I guess it's a win win situation. From the vibes I'm getting nobody really misses Joachim in Denmark so good for him that there is something meaningful for him abroad.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I guess it's a win win situation. From the vibes I'm getting nobody really misses Joachim in Denmark so good for him that there is something meaningful for him abroad.

I'm afraid it pretty much sums it up.

I've been doing a little reading.
Most believe he should lose his apanage - without considering that no apanage de facto means that he and our Marie stops being active members of the DRF.

A "royal expert" (free me from royal experts who don't know what they are talking about!) has said that Joachim's job is pretty unimportant. And that a job at NATO would be more important.
- That may be. It would certainly be pretty unimportant if he was defense attache in say Italy, because DK has very few military connections with Italy and next to no direct co-operation. France is a different matter.
Also, Joachim is a specialist in France and speaks fluent French and understand the nuances of French culture and mindset. He also have some credits in France by having completed the staff curse.
But more importantly Joachim is relatively new to this kind of work. So placing him at the NATO HQ would be less efficient. And he would bypass other Danish officers who have spend years in the NATO system. So IMO France is the better option.

- So come September we won't be seeing much of J&M, There will be the odd interview to magazines. Marie doing some work in DK every couple of months for a few days. Joachim returning back on occasion for a day event. And J&M representing DK in France whenever there is an event there.
Apart from that we will pretty much only see them at the New year Court and the QMII's birthday.

I'm sure he will be happy in France, living a pretty anonymously life.

[Somebody]

So, is it reasonable to think that this was the plan all along? That he took the course as a stepping stone to becoming a military attache in Paris?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Somebody

So, is it reasonable to think that this was the plan all along? That he took the course as a stepping stone to becoming a military attache in Paris?

I find that very reasonable.

You have to be invited to attend this course and to me it seems odd if President Macron suddenly extended an invitation to this course out of the blue.
There must have been a wish for a high ranking Danish officer to attend this course and thereby serve as some kind of in-depth liaison between DK and France.
A wish that was no doubt shared by Denmark, given the long military co-operation between the two countries.
Whether that invitation was general or specifically aimed at Joachim is of course open for debate.

- Personally I find it very plausible that Joachim was the top-contender and that France had been quietly told that DK has a fitting candidate, I.e. Joachim. So that France could extend an invitation at the appropriate moment.

Personally I also believe that Joachim for some time, perhaps since the sale of Schackenborg, has been looking for a permanent job outside the DRF. (*)
Of course it takes time to figure out what to do next. He was after all supposed to be the owner of a manor for life, while doing royal duties inbetween.
Then he has to prove his competence. He worked in a job in the Defense Command. And then a suitable job would have had to be found for him.

So my theory is that the job as a defense attache was found to be perfect for Joachim - and his family.
Okay, the previous defense attache has had to finish his tour of duty (usually three years) and Joachim would need to be up-qualified. So France would quietly have been approached: We have just the right candidate.
Of course France is not interested in an incompetent candidate, so an invitation to attend an advanced staff course was extended.

As mentioned before, normally defense attaches rotate every three years, but since France has invested a course in Joachim and Joachim is fond of France, has small children and is married to a woman with a French background it seems reasonable to expect that Joachim will apply for an extension of that period.
So he may very well serve for six years. And then perhaps take on a position in the NATO HQ or return to DK for a job in say the Defense Academy.
He could also become a liaison officer at the French Defense Command or something similar.
- There are a number of options ensuring that Joachim can remain in France if everything works out satisfactorily for all parties.

Prince Georg, the cousin to Frederik IX, was a defense attache in London for several periods.

So in three, five or six years from now, I find it very likely that it will be announced that Joachim will renounce his apanage and retire as a working member of the DRF.
It may also be announced that Joachim's younger children will renounce their royal titles and become Count of Montpezat. It's up to the monarch to decide whether Athena can have a title as well, but I think that can easily be arranged. Say a non-hereditary title of countess of Schackenborg or Marselisborg. (**)

(*) What we in DK call a "retrætejob" i.e. stepping back job, where you are ensured a nice cozy permanent employment until retirement.

(**) I understand hereditary titles of counts can traditionally only be bestowed through the male line, while females can only have a personal title. Just like Countess Alexandra.
Countess of Marselisborg would be neat, because the manor is the personal property of the DRF (the Monarch) and in that way Isabella and Josephine can have titles as well.

ADDED: The Minister for Defense has said that the Defense Ministry approached Joachim for this job, because he was the best qualified. - Whether Joachim knew he would be approached is of course another question.
The vacant position was also made public. - it has to, even if the right candidate has already been chosen.

[FasterB]

I have since the news came in DK said that Prince Joachim will be his generations Princess Elisabeth. He will stay in line for the throne, but he (and his family) will live a pretty private life.

[Countessmeout]

Surprise but not a huge one to hear of the new position and move.

Honestly it seems the best way to deal with younger children of a monarch. You don't need too many full time royals. Even in the UK. Anyone other then the heir and their children are easily treated as part time royals. Encouraged to have a job and private life outside of the royal spectrum. And take one some royal duties and patronages on the side. The Dutch seem to have handled that well so far and others can take note.

I think there are two ways. Either you give them total freedom. There are no restrictions on the kind of work they take on and where they live. And in return they live off their own private funds with no government funding. The exception perhaps being in compensation for travel/expense for any royal duties they take on time to time.

Or there is a limited pool of royal approved jobs they take like military, which limit their earning potential. And in return for also doing part time royal duties, they receive some appanage/compensation for doing so.


Joachim and Marie its the second option. He continues serving Denmark in this role, and is a part time royal, and will continue to receive his appanage.


Perfect timing now that his older sons are adults and he doesn't have to be concerned about shared custody with Alexandra. They only have to worry about their younger two kids. And those two have already had a chance to get comfortable in French schools this past year.

[Muhler]

True.

There has of course been criticism of Joachim getting an apanage while working in France, but that's to be expected.
There has also been some criticism of Joachim getting favorable treatment in regards to his new job. Which IMO is no doubt true to some extent, but on the other hand he has been groomed and trained for this particular role and his background makes him very suited.

Apart from that, people have other things on their minds right now.

But with J&M out of the way, F&M will be open to more criticism regarding their workload and what they do, now that the "dislikable brother" is out of the way.

Like any god soap there has to be a favorite villain. The DRF is short of one now.

[eya]

Prince Joachim today received his diploma for completing of the highest French military training at the Center des Hautes Études Militaires by the French Defense Secretary General Lecointre.⁣
⁣
https://www.instagram.com/p/CB5uK4dAyOE/

[Somebody]

Happy for Joachim; I assume it was an inspiring year for him and very different from the years of royal service he had behind him.

But apparently they assume Covid-19 is not among them given how close they stand to one another... Even though it was closely outline whom was supposed to stand where (see the line in front of Joachim when he stepped forward.

[Muhler]

Yeah. Don't know the rules in France though.

I read an interesting comment by an editor of a magazine dealing with military issues. The editor is respected because he is also critical of the military and decisions, purchase of equipment and so on.

To him it made sense to send Joachim to France, and also having two attaches in France.
Partly because Joachim is royal. (And brigadier and as such at times will need an adjutant at hand.) But also political. Being a Defense Attache is political. Analysis, recommendations, contacts and so, must of it will be more or less political. And there is very strict rule about the DRF being politically neutral.
So I imagine there may be reports that are written in the name of the assistant, or that the assistant lend credence to the notion than Joachim is politically neutral, because he has an advisor.
But the most important thing is the quiet, but significant change in Danish defense policy. - From a very close co-operation with in particular Britain and USA - to a more EU-based policy.
After the Trump administration and President Trumps (IMO justified) criticism of most of the NATO members, it is simply too risky for DK to rely only on USA. Especially as Britain is now moving away from EU and presumably even closer towards USA.
That is the reason why DK has quietly attached itself to France, which is the military fist of EU.
Germany being the economic arm of the EU, France being the military and security political arm of EU.
The only other place where DK has two defense attaches is in USA.

So what I see before me is that Joachim has has the indepth knowledge of France as well as the political pondus as well as status and connections. While the assistant has experience.
So there were five applicants to this position, but one of them may very well end up in Paris anyway.

It will be interesting to read further articles on this matter - and also in what regard DK will increase the military co-operation with France. Because if President Trump is re-elected, or someone who has an equal critical view of NATO becomes elected - then you don't need a crystal ball to predict a very increased military co-operation within EU in particular.

[Muhler]

The court has confirmed that Joachim will start his job as Defense Attache sometime during September.

"After advise from the doctors the Prince will start in a quiet and calm manner - including working from home, which is in accordance with the general way work is conducted in Paris as a result of Covid-19.
Prince Joachim's health continuous to improve and looks forward to, during September, to start in his new function as defense attache."

https://www.bt.dk/royale/prins-joachim-udskyder-job

ADDED:

BB is more specific: According to them the court (quote) clearly says that Joachim aims to start working in mid September.
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelig...joachim-det-nu

[polyesco]

That is great to hear that his recovery is going well and he'll be back at his job soon.

[Somebody]

That's sooner than I expected, so good to hear that the doctors consider him fit for (some) work.