The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #141  
Old 06-10-2020, 09:39 AM
muriel's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 11,025
To me, Joachim's move makes complete sense. This move allows him to carve out a career for himself independent of the DRF, in the medium term. That career could be as a career Defece Attache, serving first in France and subsequently, in other locations. Alternatively, after this 3 year posting, he could take other Defence related roles.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 06-10-2020, 09:46 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
To me, Joachim's move makes complete sense. This move allows him to carve out a career for himself independent of the DRF, in the medium term. That career could be as a career Defece Attache, serving first in France and subsequently, in other locations. Alternatively, after this 3 year posting, he could take other Defence related roles.
But have an apanage anyway...?
Shouldn't he have chosen the salary to be completely independent of the DRF?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 06-10-2020, 09:56 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 4,352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
But have an apanage anyway...?
Shouldn't he have chosen the salary to be completely independent of the DRF?
It may be that as Muhler proposed, this is a trial period and Prince Joachim is not fully committed to permanently settling in France. If Denmark is comparable to other democracies, I imagine it is politically more attractive for Parliamant to withdraw an apanage than to restore an apanage to a royal who renounced taxpayer funding years earlier. Preserving the apanage for the time being smooths the way for Prince Joachim to return to Denmark as a working royal in three years, if he wishes.
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 06-10-2020, 10:15 AM
muriel's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 11,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
It may be that as Muhler proposed, this is a trial period and Prince Joachim is not fully committed to permanently settling in France. If Denmark is comparable to other democracies, I imagine it is politically more attractive for Parliamant to withdraw an apanage than to restore an apanage to a royal who renounced taxpayer funding years earlier. Preserving the apanage for the time being smooths the way for Prince Joachim to return to Denmark as a working royal in three years, if he wishes.
Fair point.
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 06-10-2020, 10:23 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 1,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
If Denmark is comparable to other democracies, I imagine it is politically more attractive for Parliamant to withdraw an apanage than to restore an apanage to a royal who renounced taxpayer funding years earlier. Preserving the apanage for the time being smooths the way for Prince Joachim to return to Denmark as a working royal in three years, if he wishes.
Yes, of course. On the other hand, if he has already decided that he is not coming back to be a working royal and the PM has already promised him the apanage as long as he is working as an attache (or something else) in Paris (or somewhere else), it could be, that a Danish apanage is paid abroad for the 10-15 years until he retires. I assume the apanage is bigger than what a salary would have been, or?
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 06-10-2020, 11:04 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,981
The apanage is considerably higher than a defence attache's (and brigadiers) salary, but not overwhelmingly so, as Joachim has to pay for the expenses for him and Marie when on the job for the DRF.
And as he is not getting a salary he won't get expenses to housing and schooling of his children covered either, which is normal for diplomats stationed abroad.
However as he will have next to no expenses for a staff and doesn't pay vat nor taxes of his apanage, he should be able to live a quite comfortable life even if he had no private fortune - which he has.
J&M are in no danger of having to live of crackers at the end of the month.

I don't know the living-expense level in Paris but I don't imagine it can be much higher than Copenhagen - on the contrary more likely.

-----------------

A Prince Henrik Art Gallery?

Well, speaking only for myself, I would find that quite inappropriate now as well as in 20 years.
Not for personal profit.
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 06-10-2020, 12:30 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 6,802
Copenhagen is more expensive than Paris
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 06-10-2020, 02:28 PM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 13,996
I guess it's a win win situation. From the vibes I'm getting nobody really misses Joachim in Denmark so good for him that there is something meaningful for him abroad.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 06-10-2020, 04:01 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I guess it's a win win situation. From the vibes I'm getting nobody really misses Joachim in Denmark so good for him that there is something meaningful for him abroad.
I'm afraid it pretty much sums it up.

I've been doing a little reading.
Most believe he should lose his apanage - without considering that no apanage de facto means that he and our Marie stops being active members of the DRF.

A "royal expert" (free me from royal experts who don't know what they are talking about!) has said that Joachim's job is pretty unimportant. And that a job at NATO would be more important.
- That may be. It would certainly be pretty unimportant if he was defense attache in say Italy, because DK has very few military connections with Italy and next to no direct co-operation. France is a different matter.
Also, Joachim is a specialist in France and speaks fluent French and understand the nuances of French culture and mindset. He also have some credits in France by having completed the staff curse.
But more importantly Joachim is relatively new to this kind of work. So placing him at the NATO HQ would be less efficient. And he would bypass other Danish officers who have spend years in the NATO system. So IMO France is the better option.

- So come September we won't be seeing much of J&M, There will be the odd interview to magazines. Marie doing some work in DK every couple of months for a few days. Joachim returning back on occasion for a day event. And J&M representing DK in France whenever there is an event there.
Apart from that we will pretty much only see them at the New year Court and the QMII's birthday.

I'm sure he will be happy in France, living a pretty anonymously life.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 06-10-2020, 05:21 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 7,037
So, is it reasonable to think that this was the plan all along? That he took the course as a stepping stone to becoming a military attache in Paris?
Reply With Quote
  #151  
Old 06-10-2020, 06:15 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
So, is it reasonable to think that this was the plan all along? That he took the course as a stepping stone to becoming a military attache in Paris?
I find that very reasonable.

You have to be invited to attend this course and to me it seems odd if President Macron suddenly extended an invitation to this course out of the blue.
There must have been a wish for a high ranking Danish officer to attend this course and thereby serve as some kind of in-depth liaison between DK and France.
A wish that was no doubt shared by Denmark, given the long military co-operation between the two countries.
Whether that invitation was general or specifically aimed at Joachim is of course open for debate.

- Personally I find it very plausible that Joachim was the top-contender and that France had been quietly told that DK has a fitting candidate, I.e. Joachim. So that France could extend an invitation at the appropriate moment.

Personally I also believe that Joachim for some time, perhaps since the sale of Schackenborg, has been looking for a permanent job outside the DRF. (*)
Of course it takes time to figure out what to do next. He was after all supposed to be the owner of a manor for life, while doing royal duties inbetween.
Then he has to prove his competence. He worked in a job in the Defense Command. And then a suitable job would have had to be found for him.

So my theory is that the job as a defense attache was found to be perfect for Joachim - and his family.
Okay, the previous defense attache has had to finish his tour of duty (usually three years) and Joachim would need to be up-qualified. So France would quietly have been approached: We have just the right candidate.
Of course France is not interested in an incompetent candidate, so an invitation to attend an advanced staff course was extended.

As mentioned before, normally defense attaches rotate every three years, but since France has invested a course in Joachim and Joachim is fond of France, has small children and is married to a woman with a French background it seems reasonable to expect that Joachim will apply for an extension of that period.
So he may very well serve for six years. And then perhaps take on a position in the NATO HQ or return to DK for a job in say the Defense Academy.
He could also become a liaison officer at the French Defense Command or something similar.
- There are a number of options ensuring that Joachim can remain in France if everything works out satisfactorily for all parties.

Prince Georg, the cousin to Frederik IX, was a defense attache in London for several periods.

So in three, five or six years from now, I find it very likely that it will be announced that Joachim will renounce his apanage and retire as a working member of the DRF.
It may also be announced that Joachim's younger children will renounce their royal titles and become Count of Montpezat. It's up to the monarch to decide whether Athena can have a title as well, but I think that can easily be arranged. Say a non-hereditary title of countess of Schackenborg or Marselisborg. (**)

(*) What we in DK call a "retrætejob" i.e. stepping back job, where you are ensured a nice cozy permanent employment until retirement.

(**) I understand hereditary titles of counts can traditionally only be bestowed through the male line, while females can only have a personal title. Just like Countess Alexandra.
Countess of Marselisborg would be neat, because the manor is the personal property of the DRF (the Monarch) and in that way Isabella and Josephine can have titles as well.

ADDED: The Minister for Defense has said that the Defense Ministry approached Joachim for this job, because he was the best qualified. - Whether Joachim knew he would be approached is of course another question.
The vacant position was also made public. - it has to, even if the right candidate has already been chosen.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 06-10-2020, 07:04 PM
FasterB's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 1,442
I have since the news came in DK said that Prince Joachim will be his generations Princess Elisabeth. He will stay in line for the throne, but he (and his family) will live a pretty private life.
__________________
Where charity and love are, God is there.

Candidata Theologiae / Master in Theology
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 06-12-2020, 02:08 AM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,817
Surprise but not a huge one to hear of the new position and move.

Honestly it seems the best way to deal with younger children of a monarch. You don't need too many full time royals. Even in the UK. Anyone other then the heir and their children are easily treated as part time royals. Encouraged to have a job and private life outside of the royal spectrum. And take one some royal duties and patronages on the side. The Dutch seem to have handled that well so far and others can take note.

I think there are two ways. Either you give them total freedom. There are no restrictions on the kind of work they take on and where they live. And in return they live off their own private funds with no government funding. The exception perhaps being in compensation for travel/expense for any royal duties they take on time to time.

Or there is a limited pool of royal approved jobs they take like military, which limit their earning potential. And in return for also doing part time royal duties, they receive some appanage/compensation for doing so.


Joachim and Marie its the second option. He continues serving Denmark in this role, and is a part time royal, and will continue to receive his appanage.


Perfect timing now that his older sons are adults and he doesn't have to be concerned about shared custody with Alexandra. They only have to worry about their younger two kids. And those two have already had a chance to get comfortable in French schools this past year.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 06-12-2020, 05:11 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,981
True.

There has of course been criticism of Joachim getting an apanage while working in France, but that's to be expected.
There has also been some criticism of Joachim getting favorable treatment in regards to his new job. Which IMO is no doubt true to some extent, but on the other hand he has been groomed and trained for this particular role and his background makes him very suited.

Apart from that, people have other things on their minds right now.

But with J&M out of the way, F&M will be open to more criticism regarding their workload and what they do, now that the "dislikable brother" is out of the way.

Like any god soap there has to be a favorite villain. The DRF is short of one now.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 06-26-2020, 11:38 AM
eya eya is offline
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 21,841
Prince Joachim today received his diploma for completing of the highest French military training at the Center des Hautes Études Militaires by the French Defense Secretary General Lecointre.⁣

https://www.instagram.com/p/CB5uK4dAyOE/
__________________
#ΜΕΝΟΥΜΕ ΑΣΦΑΛΕΙΣ! #StaySafe! and the 2022!!
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 06-26-2020, 01:06 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 7,037
Happy for Joachim; I assume it was an inspiring year for him and very different from the years of royal service he had behind him.

But apparently they assume Covid-19 is not among them given how close they stand to one another... Even though it was closely outline whom was supposed to stand where (see the line in front of Joachim when he stepped forward.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 06-26-2020, 02:08 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,981
Yeah. Don't know the rules in France though.

I read an interesting comment by an editor of a magazine dealing with military issues. The editor is respected because he is also critical of the military and decisions, purchase of equipment and so on.

To him it made sense to send Joachim to France, and also having two attaches in France.
Partly because Joachim is royal. (And brigadier and as such at times will need an adjutant at hand.) But also political. Being a Defense Attache is political. Analysis, recommendations, contacts and so, must of it will be more or less political. And there is very strict rule about the DRF being politically neutral.
So I imagine there may be reports that are written in the name of the assistant, or that the assistant lend credence to the notion than Joachim is politically neutral, because he has an advisor.
But the most important thing is the quiet, but significant change in Danish defense policy. - From a very close co-operation with in particular Britain and USA - to a more EU-based policy.
After the Trump administration and President Trumps (IMO justified) criticism of most of the NATO members, it is simply too risky for DK to rely only on USA. Especially as Britain is now moving away from EU and presumably even closer towards USA.
That is the reason why DK has quietly attached itself to France, which is the military fist of EU.
Germany being the economic arm of the EU, France being the military and security political arm of EU.
The only other place where DK has two defense attaches is in USA.

So what I see before me is that Joachim has has the indepth knowledge of France as well as the political pondus as well as status and connections. While the assistant has experience.
So there were five applicants to this position, but one of them may very well end up in Paris anyway.

It will be interesting to read further articles on this matter - and also in what regard DK will increase the military co-operation with France. Because if President Trump is re-elected, or someone who has an equal critical view of NATO becomes elected - then you don't need a crystal ball to predict a very increased military co-operation within EU in particular.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 08-26-2020, 11:25 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,981
The court has confirmed that Joachim will start his job as Defense Attache sometime during September.

"After advise from the doctors the Prince will start in a quiet and calm manner - including working from home, which is in accordance with the general way work is conducted in Paris as a result of Covid-19.
Prince Joachim's health continuous to improve and looks forward to, during September, to start in his new function as defense attache."

https://www.bt.dk/royale/prins-joachim-udskyder-job

ADDED:

BB is more specific: According to them the court (quote) clearly says that Joachim aims to start working in mid September.
https://www.billedbladet.dk/kongelig...joachim-det-nu
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 08-26-2020, 12:48 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san diego, United States
Posts: 9,651
That is great to hear that his recovery is going well and he'll be back at his job soon.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 08-26-2020, 12:57 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 7,037
That's sooner than I expected, so good to hear that the doctors consider him fit for (some) work.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
prince joachim, prince joachim current events


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Prince Joachim and Princess Marie, Current Events Part 5: August 2013 - dazzling Prince Joachim, Princess Marie and Family 299 11-26-2021 08:21 AM
Prince Joachim, Current Events Part 2: September 2005 - June 2016 norwegianne Current Events Archive 395 06-06-2016 02:09 AM
Prince Joachim and Marie Cavallier, Current Events 1: September 2005 - May 2007 Larzen Current Events Archive 549 05-07-2007 10:01 PM
Prince Joachim, Current Events 1: September 2004 - 2005 Alexandria Current Events Archive 148 09-10-2005 04:12 AM
Prince Joachim and Princess Alexandra, Current Events 1: September 2003 - Sept. 2004 xicamaluca Current Events Archive 474 09-27-2004 07:46 PM




Popular Tags
#uae #abudhabirullingfamily 18th birthday america american archie mountbatten-windsor asia asian birth braganza britain britannia british british royal family cadwallader camilla camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles castile charles china chinese clarence house colorblindness coronation crown jewels de la cerda dresses dubai expo duchess of sussex duke of sussex edward vii family tree fashion and style george vi guzman history ivrea japan japanese imperial family japan history kensington palace king edward iii king edward vii liechtenstein lili mountbatten-windsor list of rulers maria ii medical monarchists mongolia norway crown princely couple orleans-braganza pedro ii politics portugal prince charles prince harry prince of wales prince of wales in jordan queen victoria samurai spanish royal family state visit st edward uae unfinished portrait united states wales welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:27 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2022
Jelsoft Enterprises
×