Prince Joachim and Princess Marie, Current Events Part 5: August 2013 -

[eya]

The Palace shares pictures from today

Fejring af 800-årsdagen for Dannebrogs fald | Kongehuset

[iceflower]

Here's a short video from today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmJGFL4GF4c

[An Ard Ri]

Thankfully the weather held up for the Prince and Princess for the service at Copenhagen Cathedral.

Off topic do Danish bishops not wear mitres?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Thankfully the weather held up for the Prince and Princess for the service at Copenhagen Cathedral.

Off topic do Danish bishops not wear mitres?

I don't think so.

But that's a question for our resident theologian and no doubt soon to be bishop, FasterB.

[maria-olivia]

I read that Joachim and Marie already moved in France last week.
Barones Flemming will rent their house.
That means they will stay in France more than a year ?
NO attendence at Gärsten ??

[carina_a]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

I read that Joachim and Marie already moved in France last week.
Barones Flemming will rent their house.
That means they will stay in France more than a year ?
NO attendence at Gärsten ??

Yes, they moved last week (people saw furniture trucks coming and leaving, not sure when the people left in person)

Caroline Fleming renting the house doesn't necessarily mean J&M will stay longer than expectation I think. Fleming is not short on money and she's an old friend of the RF, so arrangement is probably quite flexible. She just recently moved back to Denmark from London, so maybe she needs time to purchase a more permanent residence. If J&M's villa is available and they need a tenant, why not rent it for a while?

J&M haven't been to Gråsten since 2014, at least not for the summer photocalls, so that's very expected.

[Archduchess Zelia]

It doesn't necessarily mean anything that they're renting/lending out their house but I do think it's significant that they seem to have moved the majority of their furniture to France. Who does that for a one year stay? Surely you'll be able to find furnished apartments in France? Moving all your stuff from one country to another is not cheap.

[MsJulie]

I missed it...but why did they move to France? Do either one of them have a job in France? Thanks.

[Queen Claude]

Joachim has an assignment in France with the French military.


ETA:
http://kongehuset.dk/en/news/prince-...ning-in-france

[carina_a]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

It doesn't necessarily mean anything that they're renting/lending out their house but I do think it's significant that they seem to have moved the majority of their furniture to France. Who does that for a one year stay? Surely you'll be able to find furnished apartments in France? Moving all your stuff from one country to another is not cheap.

You make a point. If it were me, I would probably put my furnitures in a storage somewhere close (to give room to the tenant), and buy/rent temporary ones in Paris.

Maybe they just can't be parted with their beloved furnitures? Or the costs of moving them is negligible for them.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

It doesn't necessarily mean anything that they're renting/lending out their house but I do think it's significant that they seem to have moved the majority of their furniture to France. Who does that for a one year stay? Surely you'll be able to find furnished apartments in France? Moving all your stuff from one country to another is not cheap.

Indeed.

I think there is a very good chance that Joachim will land himself a position as an attache of some sort either at the NATO HQ in Belgium or in France - and keep in mind that DK has a growing military co-operation with France. We have military units stationed in Sahara and a frigate attached to protecting the French carrier.
DK is not alone in joining France in this regional alternative to NATO (as you know NATO is no longer as certain an entity as it used to be) which is also an operational alternative to an EU military force.

It is not so much finishing the course that is important (even though that IS important of course) it is the contacts and network Joachim will form from attending the course and from the prestige of having finished the course. That opens doors.

All that provided of course that the family, i.e. the children can feel at home in France. I think they can.
So I don't think we should be surprised if it is announced next year that Joachim has accepted a job in France and as such he and his family will stay there for some years.

[theroyalfly]

Originally Posted by Queen Claude

Joachim has an assignment in France with the French military.


ETA:
Prince Joachim admitted to military training in France | The Danish Monarchy - Front Page

This is good news!!!

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by carina_a

You make a point. If it were me, I would probably put my furnitures in a storage somewhere close (to give room to the tenant), and buy/rent temporary ones in Paris.

Maybe they just can't be parted with their beloved furnitures? Or the costs of moving them is negligible for them.

As a Danish journalist pointed out: You can only really be arsed to splurge on something like that if someone else is paying for it

Originally Posted by Muhler

Indeed.

I think there is a very good chance that Joachim will land himself a position as an attache of some sort either at the NATO HQ in Belgium or in France (...)

So I don't think we should be surprised if it is announced next year that Joachim has accepted a job in France and as such he and his family will stay there for some years.

I agree. And that's probably also the best solution for him. But do you think it's even doable to extend his stay abroad following the whole apanage hullaballoo? Refusing to ask permission to take the allowance out of the country just doesn't strike me as a very forward-thinking stance to be stubborn about – especially if it isn't actually their intention to come home in a year's time.

I mean, he's largely gotten away with it this time but if they stay abroad and continue not to gain permission to enjoy the allowance outside the country, I think they'll receive much more heat (especially if I'm also right in thinking this current stay will show that it's fairly difficult not to let living in a different country affect your domestic patronages). On the other hand, if he (and the court ) caves in and ask for permission in the future, he (and largely the court as well) will just look foolish for not just doing it the first time around (especially since there's no way he would've been denied that permission).

[Muhler]

Well, after some initial debate about the apanage, J&M will be out of sight and out of mind most of the time.

Anyway, it's no worse than the insane amounts much less competent managers get as a compensation when leaving their (well-paid) jobs. - It's actually cheaper.

But a neat solution would be for J&M to have an expense account, to be used when they are on the job for the DRF. The rest of their time they can enjoy their much more free life in France. - And keep an eye on Chateau Cayx.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

I agree. And that's probably also the best solution for him. But do you think it's even doable to extend his stay abroad following the whole apanage hullaballoo? Refusing to ask permission to take the allowance out of the country just doesn't strike me as a very forward-thinking stance to be stubborn about – especially if it isn't actually their intention to come home in a year's time.

I mean, he's largely gotten away with it this time but if they stay abroad and continue not to gain permission to enjoy the allowance outside the country, I think they'll receive much more heat (especially if I'm also right in thinking this current stay will show that it's fairly difficult not to let living in a different country affect your domestic patronages). On the other hand, if he (and the court ) caves in and ask for permission in the future, he (and largely the court as well) will just look foolish for not just doing it the first time around (especially since there's no way he would've been denied that permission).

So, do I understand it correctly that there was some fuzz about Joachim keeping his apanage while not living in Denmark? Is that a requirement or only an assumed requirement? Is it somehow related to Benedikte's children not being in line to the throne because she moved to Germany after marriage?

And, you expect him to be allowed to keep his apanage even if he would decide to take on a 'primary job/position' and only doing some minimal representative work for the family and his charities? Or was your assumption only based on him being away for this year?

Thanks in advance for answering all my questions

[Archduchess Zelia]

The Danish constitution states that members of the royal family can't take their apanage abroad without gaining consent from the parliament. Joachim has failed to do so and the court has explicitly said that he (they) doesn't intend to, which is in direct conflict with the constitution. Nothing has come of it because no Danish politician with the slightest amount of influence would dare touching the DRF with a ten foot pole. But it is incredibly stupid because he would've been given permission in a heartbeat.

To the best of my knowledge, Benedikte's children aren't in line of succession to the throne because they didn't take up residence in Denmark when they started school

Originally Posted by Muhler

Well, after some initial debate about the apanage, J&M will be out of sight and out of mind most of the time.

Anyway, it's no worse than the insane amounts much less competent managers get as a compensation when leaving their (well-paid) jobs. - It's actually cheaper.

But a neat solution would be for J&M to have an expense account, to be used when they are on the job for the DRF. The rest of their time they can enjoy their much more free life in France. - And keep an eye on Chateau Cayx.

Surely it doesn't make their mess less atrocious that others do something equally atrocious (and also relatively incomparable)? If anything, as people who get their privileged lifestyles fully funded in return for being representatives for this country, they should make a point out of not stepping out of line like that.

But yes, I agree about an expense account or something similar to what the SRF are doing with Madeleine where only their work-related expenses are covered. If Joachim intends to get a job abroad that entails them spending the majority of their time abroad, it doesn't make sense to pay them as though they're full-time royals anyway.

[Muhler]

It's a grey area, because Joachim attending the staff course is very much in Danish national interests, vis a vis the Danish-French military co-operation.
The personal contacts Joachim may develop are also in the national interest. Joachim being a genuine royal does help in that respect. And he is colonel in the army - on the job.
So you can argue that he is very much doing his job as a member of the DRF - working for Danish interests.

The problem is that this is difficult to explain to the public, because many people, especially those who dislike Joachim, cannot (or will not) fathom that being a royal can be more than cutting ribbons.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

The Danish constitution states that members of the royal family can't take their apanage abroad without gaining consent from the parliament. Joachim has failed to do so and the court has explicitly said that he (they) doesn't intend to, which is in direct conflict with the constitution. Nothing has come of it because no Danish politician with the slightest amount of influence wouldn't dare touching the DRF with a ten foot pole. But it is incredibly stupid because he would've been given permission in a heartbeat.

Thanks! Indeed very strange that the DRF explicitly decides to go against the constitution and even more strange that everyone accepts them to be above the law. So, unless Joachim is not intending to keep his apanage this year, it's hard to explain. And I agree there seems to be little reason for his request to be denied, also based on Muhler's argument (somewhat comparable to Guillaume - I don't think anyone questioned whether he should be funded this year; although it's of course a little different as he is the future head of state and Joachim is not). If he would decide to stay abroad for other purposes after this, I could imagine his request to be denied and the route that several other royal houses take in just having their expenses covered would be the sensible approach.

[polyesco]

I guess we will see what happens after the one year. But certainly they should go the expense account route if they plan to live abroad more than 1 year.
If they do decide to live abroad permently, would that affect Henrik and Athena's being in the line of sussesion and not being raised/schooling in Denmark?

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by polyesco

I guess we will see what happens after the one year. But certainly they should go the expense account route if they plan to live abroad more than 1 year.
If they do decide to live abroad permently, would that affect Henrik and Athena's being in the line of sussesion and not being raised/schooling in Denmark?

I don't think it was included in the marriage conditions for Joachim and Marie unlike Benedikte's case in which her father made this a requirement for any children to be in line yo the throne.