Marie Cavallier: Degreed? Assumptions? True or False?

[GlitteringTiaras]

The Copenhagen Post picked up on the Se og Hor story regarding Marie's education and her supposed "miserable time" in NYC. The reporters are questioning her education, including her graduation university, amongst other stuff.... [URL="http://www.cphpost.dk/get/106279.html"]this[/URL] is what he/she supposedly found. Who knows if it is true; most likely it's not. But if it is, well, it looks bad on the DRF PR team. Click the above link to read the article, it's in English.


Meanhwhile, Ekstra Bladet is also reporting about Joachim's stag party over the weekend. Click [url=http://ekstrabladet.dk/flash/dkkendte/danskekongelige/article986161.ece]here[/URL] to read the story.

 

[ricarda]

Interesting to see that Se&Hoer actually blames the Danish media for having given wrong information whereas The Copenhagen Post blames the royal house. So, I'd say the Copenhagen Post article is "slightly tweaked" itself (since they are referring to S&H but ...).

This is what Se&Hoer found out (I'll try to just give the "facts" and ignore the magazine's "Pretty Woman"-interpretation):
Marie lived in the USA for seven years, from 1994 to 2001.
First she was at Babson College in Boston but did not finish her studies there.
Then she moved to New York.

Apparently it was claimed (by Danish media according to S&H, by the royal house according to CPH Post) that she finished her studies there and achieved a bachelor degree in marketing, trade and IT. This is not correct according to Se&Hoer (which is by no means a relieable source, but in this case they claim they have official documents to prove what they wrote).

With half a year of delay between colleges Marie started to study liberal arts (?) at Marymount Manhattan College, which is portrayed as a highly general basic education (I am not familiar with the American education system). She should have finished in March 1999 but only did so in September the same year. After that she worked for 1 1/2 years as an intern for Double Click company, making coffee and entering data.

According to S&H she led an anonymous student life (well, she was a student and anonymous then ), lived in a dowdy flat at the border to Greenwich Village and her stay in the USA did not bring the results she and her parents who paid a lot of money for her education (but hadn't enough to pay for a decent flat? ) had counted on.

If the royal press officer really distributed wrong informations that looks bad on Marie as well since she is probably the source of information for the DRF's PR team. I hope the royal house will put Marie's official CV online soon, so these speculations will have an end, and I sure hope it will stick to facts.

 

[BurberryBrit]

It will be very intersting to see her CV! You can't lie about a degree that you never obtained. More than likely, if she didn't get a degree, some creative wording will state she attended university in the US where she studied X, Y and Z. They can be very liberal with her career at ReInvest since it is her stepfather's company. He can say she did just about anything.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

There are a lot of people in this world who never finish their studies at university, and Marie is no different, if these stories are true. Nevertheless, does it really matter that she completed her studies or not? No, not really especially when it comes to her future role (I mean, really. Being a Princess really doesn't require a lot of brain power or require one to have a 170 IQ.) However, someone either blatantly lied, or there was a miscommunication between two parties regarding her academic career or lack of it.

So, she made coffee and was a wiz at data entry whilst in NYC... it's not that big of a scandal. Unless she fibbed, directly, to the DRF PR machine who then spoke off the record to the media... then there is a problem.

 

[ashelen]

what ever she did is in the past, will stay in the past, certenly she must get now the princess school education with the best tuttors and for free, and she will graduate of course, plus learning to speak danish, what ever she did in the past i am sure she will have the PR working in this to show a good publicity for her. and what ever they show in her CV who knows if it will be true???????

 

[BurberryBrit]

There are a lot of people in this world who never finish their studies at university, and Marie is no different, if these stories are true. Nevertheless, does it really matter that she completed her studies or not? No, not really especially when it comes to her future role (I mean, really. Being a Princess really doesn't require a lot of brain power or require one to have a 170 IQ.) However, someone either blatantly lied, or there was a miscommunication between two parties regarding her academic career or lack of it.

So, she made coffee and was a wiz at data entry whilst in NYC... it's not that big of a scandal. Unless she fibbed, directly, to the DRF PR machine who then spoke off the record to the media... then there is a problem.

I think for most of us that is the issue. Whether or not she lied.

 

[Amelia]

I have to wonder though if she would be foolish enough to lie. She has to have known that the press would dig into her background; they even started doing that in a little way when they found out about her dating Joachim, how many times did she stop to talk to journalists outside her apartment, on her way to work etc. I really want to believe that this is a mix up between the press officers at the Danish Court and the media; surely Marie cannot be as ignorant to believe that she could lie about anything in her past into today’s media driven world, especially about something as easy to check as her education. And I hope that if this is the fault of the Danish Court they will admit as much or else in the years to we will constantly be hearing about how she lied about her education.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Honestly, my gut tells me that there was a miscommunication on someone's side.

Scenario number one:
Marie was known as a raging chatterbox up until mid-summer, then all of a sudden she became quite coy, and finally stopped being so open with the press. Plus, her English isn't that perfect (yes, I know she can put sentences together quite well, but I've noticed that she generally doesn't understand the context of the words she uses.) Add on top of that, let's say a Danish reporter English skills are average at best... so now you have two people who may not fully understand exactly what the other meant/means. Also, if this took place, this all could have been off the record as well.

Scenario number two:
Someone at the DRF PR headquarters heard from another party, off the record {key words here, people}, that she completed her studies. Thus she had a somewhat desirable job position in NYC. As a result someone ran with this degree and great job in NYC story, and there you have it.


It has been said that universities are not supposed to reveal the status or former status of their students. That's not necessarily true. Furthermore, it is quite easy to find out if one graduated or not from a particular school. So, in the end, as I said previously, I believe this is all one big misunderstanding, and really isn't such a big deal. Unless, she blatantly lied to someone thinking they wouldn't go digging into her past.

Marie is a nice girl, so whether or not she has a degree from DeVry or Boston (or is it Babson?) University it really doesn't matter at this point. She doesn't need a BA in order to smile and wave for the rest of her life.

 

[ashelen]

"""""Marie is a nice girl, so whether or not she has a degree from DeVry or Boston (or is it Babson?) University it really doesn't matter at this point. She doesn't need a BA in order to smile and wave for the rest of her life.""""""""
i agree with you 100 %

 

[MARG]

. . . . . she doesn't need a BA in order to smile and wave for the rest of her life. . . . . .

I think that a lot of royals, born to and married into, would take issue with you on that one.

Governments expect their royals at the very least to be able to both walk and talk during public events.

Diplomatic functions and affairs of state are facilitated by their Royal Families who are expected to dazzle with thier rapier wit, and not to commit social suicide or a diplomatic faux pax.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

I think that a lot of royals, born to and married into, would take issue with you on that one. Governments expect their royals at the very least to be able to both walk and talk during public events.

Diplomatic functions and affairs of state are facilitated by their Royal Families who are expected to dazzle with thier rapier wit, and not to commit social suicide or a diplomatic faux pax.

That would be me, Marg. I stated the quote in Ashelen's post, and let's face it... it is true.

 

[HRH Kerry]

Regardless of the fault being laid at the DRF's door (or the media's for that matter) clearly a rebuttal is needed. However, we may never get any clarification one way or the other.

So much for her being educated at a higher learning institution in America but not understanding the context of the words she uses. Something just ain't right.

 

[ashelen]

I know people that have lived here in America for 12 years and still can not speak english, but if it is true that her english is not good how is possible that she graduated?

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Now to be clear, my observations of her English is simply my opinion. It's not a fact. Yes, she can speak English, but in my opinion, she doesn't understand context. Others may disagree, and that's fine. However, it doesn't change the fact that someone isn't telling the truth. Whether it's a journalist, DRF PR machine, or whomever.

Degree or no degee. A great position with a firm or one who makes awesome coffee for the office. Marie will still be Denmark's next princess come May 24, 2008.

 

[madeleine victoria]

I read an article too in a Danish magazine that Marie doesn't have a degree. Well, I don't think that it's necessary but given that it was Marie who said that she has a degree from a particular university and it turned out that she doesn't have one, must be really shocking for the DRF. Honestly, we don't know yet if she has a degree or not. It will come out in due time since anyone can dig your history now especially in today's world wherein access to any infos can be done easily especially if you became a public figure. Let's just hope that she has a degree because admit it or not it will haunt her for the rest of her royal life like some past of other royals. Some may say that a degree is not relevant in becoming a royal but education is regarded as one of the most essential thing especially if you're becoming a royal. You may disagree with me but I think the media will have a field day once all this rumors are true. Poor Marie, welcome to the royal life..

 

[Amelia]

Regardless of the fault being laid at the DRF's door (or the media's for that matter) clearly a rebuttal is needed. However, we may never get any clarification one way or the other.........

ITA I really think that they need to come out and say some. I don’t think that this is something that is going to go away, if they don’t clear it up they will continue to raise the subject for years to come. The fact that she doesn’t have a degree doesn’t make her in anyway unsuitable to be a princess but if the cause of this mess is hers due to lies she told then I really don’t think she has any concept of the new life she is marrying into, there was no way that any untruths told wouldn’t be discovered by the relentless media.

 

[pinklady1991]

Just as a clarification: Babson College is a small, private, business college in Wellesley, MA about 15 miles or so outside of Boston. It is very well-respected for the professional training its students receive and particularly in terms of entrepreneurship and its Institute for Women in Business. Marymount Manhattan is a small, Roman Catholic college for women in NYC. Like many small single-sex schools, it often struggles to attract students. Hearing that she attended Babson is news to me. Previously, I had heard Boston University, a large university in downtown Boston with several undergraduate schools including Liberal Arts, Engineering, Communications, Fine Arts, Business Management, and Hotel Management.

Re: whether or not Marie attended or graduated from a particular school is all a matter of semantics. Generally in the US, if someone puts on his/her resume that they "attended" such-and-such university, it means they graduated. On my resume I do put that I received a Bachelor of Arts from University X and a Master of Science from University Y. In that way, there is no misunderstanding: I have the degrees. Many European students attend American schools as special students which means they can take courses for a fee, but they do not obtain a degree. When I was an undergraduate, there were a few European students who thought that b/c they took classes at the university in return for work as teaching assistants, they were entitled to a degree. They didn't understand that in the US, incoming students must apply for admission and their admission to a particular school is determined on a variety of criteria including grades, standardized test scores, etc. It isn't like France where you show up somewhere with your credentials, pay a fee, and you are in.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I think Marie was honest in saying that she attended these schools but she never said she graduated. Most people make the assumption that attended = graduated. Whether or not Marie falls into the scenario described above, I don't know. But if there were a six-month gap between her attendance at the various schools, it sounds to me like at one point she went through the application process.

If Marie were at a company for 1 1/2 years, I highly doubt she spent all of that time as an intern as interns are generally unpaid. Often companies give swanky titles to junior staffers to entice them aboard and they get stuck making copies, coffee, and doing data entry. Also, most internships are designed around a specific project for a major enabling the student to complete the internship for credit. Interns are generally in the office for 1-2 days per week and is often how the students gain full-time (35-40 hours/week) employment at many prestigious firms.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Thanks PL, I guess when people mention that they attended University without mentioning they dropped out, many assume one has graduated. So Marie attended two different schools without ever graduating, and worked in NYC as an intern... how was she able to support herself for the past seven years on a paid interns salary?

 

[Charlotte1]

Thanks PL, but just one thing: It is my understanding that Marie never told anyone a thing about her education directly to the media. This was all done by the DRF PR members and the media who were/are trying to figure out her background on their own.

The DRF PR members didn't give any information about Marie's education or CV to the media. They issued no statements on her background only on her future in the DRF, ie what she will be called, her change in religion and citizenship.

The media and message boarders ( where the media also gets it information) are the ones who made assumptions on where Marie went to school and her degrees. No-one lied and no-one misled, the media got things wrong and now use those errors to create a 'scandelous' story.

 

[acdc1]

Babson college? I always heard that she was at Boston College.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Babson college? I always heard that she was at Boston College.

Nobody knows...

The DRF PR members didn't give any information about Marie's education or CV to the media. They issued no statements on her background only on her future in the DRF, ie what she will be called, her change in religion and citizenship.

The media and message boarders ( where the media also gets it information) are the ones who made assumptions on where Marie went to school and her degrees.

Yes, but I noted in previous posts that some of this could have been off the record. Second, I'm not convinced the media soley relys on message boarders for their information. The other way around is more likely.

No-one lied and no-one misled, the media got things wrong and now use those errors to create a 'scandelous' story.

Could you provide evidence for this claim?

 

[HRH Kerry]

If creating a scandalous story on Marie was indeed the media's intent rolleyes, it worked. If it sold papers or achieved ratings then it definitely worked in their favor. These days you better not mis-step after your kindergarten graduation. After that its all down hill.

 

[Charlotte1]

Nobody knows...




Yes, but I noted in previous posts that some of this could have been off the record. Second, I'm not convinced the media soley relys on message boarders for their information. The other way around is more likely.




Could you provide evidence for this claim?

It's not difficult to track this story. Marie gave one interview where she talked about her background, that's where she stated she had gone to Boston at age 17 to attend school. ( She named her boarding school in Switzerland that she attended prior to that) She didn't name her schools in the US nor did she claim she graduated from college.
After this interview the assumptions happened, message boarders mainly and it was assumed she graduated from Boston College, simply from the statement "I went to school in Boston" Her attendance at Boston College was even placed on her Wikipedia page.
The DRF statements about Marie are in the public domain and all can be tracked, no mention of Marie's schooling or job history.

As far as the new story about Denmark being misled about Marie's education, all that originated from the tabloid Se & Hor even the Copenhagen Post article quotes Se & Hor. Other news outlets who have used this story all base it on the Se & Hor story. Se & Hor have been quite openly determined to dig up whatever dirt they can on Marie's time in the US, they have actively been advertising for people with information about her. The college information comes from their digging.
I doubt very much if the DRF press office has made any statements 'of the record' to a down market tabloid.

Royalty message boards are used frequently to source royalty stories and commentary about royals. Often quotes attributed to 'seasoned royalty watchers' have come directly from a message board. You'd be surprised how often this kind of comment appears and then can be matched directly to a post on a message board written before the magazine article. Sometimes the message board itself is actually named in the story, the media doesn't rely soley on message boards I never wrote that, but a percentage of their stories do originate from message board commentary. Few magazines or media outlets actually do have specialist royalty commentators they tend to rely on larger magazines or news outlets. Australian magazines don't anymore have a royalty specialist, all their royalty stories comes directly from Danish magazines ( if about the DRF) and some sourced from message boards ( again easily tracked if one has the time and inclination to play match up with the stories and message boards) or the British tabloids if about the BRF. The other royals rarely rate a mention.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

It's not difficult to track this story. Marie gave one interview where she talked about her background, that's where she stated she had gone to Boston at age 17 to attend school. ( She named her boarding school in Switzerland that she attended prior to that) She didn't name her schools in the US nor did she claim she graduated from college.
After this interview the assumptions happened, message boarders mainly and it was assumed she graduated from Boston College, simply from the statement "I went to school in Boston" Her attendance at Boston College was even placed on her Wikipedia page.

Probably the same message boarders who endlessly discuss the value of Mary's degrees - and she has some! I wouldn't wonder if they gave the tabloid an idea that the education of a new princess is a topic people feel heartily about.

 

[Stefanie]

Obviously the bad media attention about her non-existing degrees seems to have come here to the board. I have the feeling that just because some of the posters don´t like Marie they make a big fuss about whether she has graduated or not. If Joachim doesn´t care so what´s the problem? The fact that she didn´t tell everything acurately doesn´t mean that she´s a liar. She was just charming enough not to tell just everybody that she isn´t as smart as Mary.....

 

[madeleine victoria]

Obviously the bad media attention about her non-existing degrees seems to have come here to the board. I have the feeling that just because some of the posters don´t like Marie they make a big fuss about whether she has graduated or not. If Joachim doesn´t care so what´s the problem? The fact that she didn´t tell everything acurately doesn´t mean that she´s a liar. She was just charming enough not to tell just everybody that she isn´t as smart as Mary.....

Yup, that's true. But the point is Marie will be haunted by the media unless she made it clear or perhaps the DRF. But I don't think they will waste time feeding the media about the educational background of Marie. As far as they're concerned, Marie's background is suitable or well-enough to be the next Pss of Denmark. It's really up to Marie whether she will give-in to the media scrutiny or ignore them. Let's wait and see how she handles royal life.

 

[rominet09]

Whether she has got a degree or not has no importance with her future role

 

[Australian]

Whether she has got a degree or not has no importance with her future role

I agree. It really doesn't matter if she has a degree or not.....Whether it was just a case of miscommunication or someone just wanting to talk her up it doesnt make much difference in the long run. Its not like she needs a degree to be a princess.

 

[sgl]

Whether she has got a degree or not has no importance with her future role

Exactly! So what? It's not like she is an un-educated or illiterate person. This magazine Se & Hor sounds like they are searching high and low for anything that they feel might show Marie in a bad light. Too bad that this expose isn't causing the big fuss they were hoping for (I mean that sarcastically).

 

[BurberryBrit]

how was she able to support herself for the past seven years on a paid interns salary?

Did you forget she comes from money? Any student from another country who studies in the US probably has financial support from their parents because it's incredibly expensive to study and live abroad (particularly in NY!).