Marie Cavallier: Degreed? Assumptions? True or False?

[BurberryBrit]

Originally Posted by ricarda

Well, I actually find it a bit strange that they listed summer holiday jobs. Looks a bit as if they tried to make her CV more impressive (?).
And the fact that she worked for a news agency like Reuters makes me wonder if she really was that naive and clueless when she first met the media.

But I would say it's the future that counts not the past. As long as she and Joachim make their marriage work and as long as she fulfills her duties as a princess (which I believe she will) I don't care where or what she worked before.

Yes, they seemed to include summer jobs and internship positions probably to make it longer. It seems she mostly did assistant work in the last few years. But yes, it will be interesting to see what she does for the Danish RF but she understandably she needs to settle into married life first.

[HRH Kerry]

I'm sure they wanted to beef it up. Besides, I'm thrilled that the speculation (thanks media for causing controversy, selling mags, papers,etc!) has finally been put to rest.

[Exlibrarian]

I browsed The Danish Monarchy official website and found the following information concerning Princess Marie's degree :

' The Princess has a Bachelor of Arts from Marymount Manhattan college, New York ( 1997-1999 )

The thing that intrigues me is that --- Can one get a BA degree in two years at a college? My daughter went to Columbia University and it took her 4 years to get a BA.

[norwegianne]

Originally Posted by Exlibrarian

I browsed The Danish Monarchy official website and found the following information concerning Princess Marie's degree :

' The Princess has a Bachelor of Arts from Marymount Manhattan college, New York ( 1997-1999 )

The thing that intrigues me is that --- Can one get a BA degree in two years at a college? My daughter went to Columbia University and it took her 4 years to get a BA.

As I've understood it from friends who have done it, it is possible to transfer credits from one educational institution to another. Marie had studied international business and economics at Babson College, Boston, for two years prior to the transfer to Marymount.

[Benedikte]

{Moved from Swedish forum}

Originally Posted by Bine221

At the moment the connection giving the impression of becoming closer than ever before. Joint "Love nest" goes already pretty much in the direction of a very serious relationship.
If it is getting further this way, then we may have to consider an anouncement within 2011.

I seriously hope, that CP Victoria has something really important to announce beforehand..... this would be the best gift for the Swedes after her fathers scandalous intimacies and a potential conflicting proposal.

On the other hand: it may happen, that people will be exciting on potential news, as they will receive a new member of the royal family -- and even if her past is a very "discussionable" one, she is a beautiful girl and her look may become another "jewel in the crown".
See Catherine Middleton: the British press titled her "Waity Katie", and suddenly after the proposal everybody is completely excited about her. Just my 2 cents, of course.


Bye Bine

You got a point.

In Denmark Marie Cavallier was a public joke. Everyone thought she had to be plain stupid based on quite odd remarks to the press.
Joachim ended the affair because he couldn't handle the criticism of Marie.

But they eventually got engaged and married.

And they are still married even though there has been a "lying about work and a business degree" scandal.

[Sternchen]

Has the business degree thing really been a scandal? I haven't read too much online about it.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

You got a point.

In Denmark Marie Cavallier was a public joke. Everyone thought she had to be plain stupid based on quite odd remarks to the press.
Joachim ended the affair because he couldn't handle the criticism of Marie.

But they eventually got engaged and married.

And they are still married even though there has been a "lying about work and a business degree" scandal.

Be careful what you post about the Danish Royal Family, Benedikte. Some of the members on this forum respond in a manner that is mild (calling people "lame") to rabidly attacking (calling people "liars" or worse) anyone who criticizes the DRF, particularly Mary. They also seem to post so many defenses that the threads get shut down, as recently happened with the one about the photoshoot in Vogue.

[Benedikte]

What happened?
Marie Cavallier wanted to be with her boyfriend spanish Ramon and she followed him to USA.
A handsome man Prinsesse Marie: Se hendes spanske elsker - - SE og HØR

But the relationsship didn't last.

She failed college and worked in a dead-end job brewing coffee at double click USA.

She then could'nt stay because her visa ran out I guess.

She got a job at her stepfathers firm answering the telephones.

Fortunately Marie met Joachim who had a wife and a new born second son Felix (2 month old) at home. None the less Marie gave Joachim her mailadress and phone number.

The rest is history as they say.

Marie and Joachim got engaged and the court informed the reporters about a business degree and a business career.

The business degree turned out to be a mistake.
Se og Hør: Marie Cavalliers CV er fup - hun var kaffebrygger - Avisen.dk

http://www.e-pages.dk/urban/346/full...fc1191b78b.pdf

and the court changed the cv.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Hasnt any court out there NOT changed a CV or tried to sell the new family member in a manner that is more based on wishful thinking rather than on facts, especially when there is a grey area? Nobody wants to acknowledge possible unsuitability and therefore there will be "airbrushing", whenever possible.

Mentioning any examples would only derail this thread therefore I stick to Marie. While I dont think much of her I dont really think changing her CV etc doesnt really matter because a) she is quite unimportant for the instituiton and b) she doesnt go out there presenting herself as gods gift to monarchy.

I think Marie wanted to marry well in order to have a privileged life without having to work her butt off, so to say, and thats what she did. She seems happy and without further ambition to me.

[dee4855]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Hasnt any court out there NOT changed a CV or tried to sell the new family member in a manner that is more based on wishful thinking rather than on facts, especially when there is a grey area? Nobody wants to acknowledge possible unsuitability and therefore there will be "airbrushing", whenever possible.

Mentioning any examples would only derail this thread therefore I stick to Marie. While I dont think much of her I dont really think changing her CV etc doesnt really matter because a) she is quite unimportant for the instituiton and b) she doesnt go out there presenting herself as gods gift to monarchy.

I think Marie wanted to marry well in order to have a privileged life without having to work her butt off, so to say, and thats what she did. She seems happy and without further ambition to me.

Yes, I am sure none of us were able to figure out who God's gift to Monarchy would be.

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by Benedikte

{Moved from Swedish forum}

You got a point.

In Denmark Marie Cavallier was a public joke. Everyone thought she had to be plain stupid based on quite odd remarks to the press.

Eh? Did "everyone" really think that?

Originally Posted by Benedikte

Joachim ended the affair because he couldn't handle the criticism of Marie.

Or did Marie end it, as the press was hunting her like dogs?

Originally Posted by Benedikte

and a "lying about work and a business degree" scandal.

I don't recall this "scandal" at all. Are you sure it's not just some gossip-press trying to create a scandal that's not there?

If you use Se & Hør as a source, keep in mind that they are particular malignant towards the DRF, as the DRF have put that particular piece of garbage on ice. I.e. you should take anything coming from there with a huge block of salt, as most of it is make-believe.

[UserDane]

Benedikte, I really wish you would stop the campaign against Marie you seem to have going here. It doesn't hurt Marie, but as a newbie you put yourself in a really poor light.
You are of course free to not like her, but in my book you keep crossing the boundary for acceptable vocabulary when you describe her.

Just my opinion of course.

Originally Posted by Rascal

Be careful what you post about the Danish Royal Family, Benedikte. Some of the members on this forum respond in a manner that is mild (calling people "lame") to rabidly attacking (calling people "liars" or worse) anyone who criticizes the DRF, particularly Mary. They also seem to post so many defenses that the threads get shut down, as recently happened with the one about the photoshoot in Vogue.

You think so? Do you find it acceptable to read Benedikte's insinuations about sex scandals, Marie being a home broker, being plain studpid etc.? Isn't that what people out in the real world call defamation? There are other places to go, if people need to vent in this way.

Someone at the TRF has said that we should treat people as we would if we were facing them which is very good advice.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by UserDane

You think so? Do you find it acceptable to read Benedikte's insinuations about sex scandals, Marie being a home broker, being plain studpid etc.? Isn't that what people out in the real world call defamation? There are other places to go, if people need to vent in this way.

Someone at the TRF has said that we should treat people as we would if we were facing them which is very good advice.

Thank you for making assumptions about my thoughts/feelings/attitude toward Marie and attacking me based on your assumptions.

Yes, there are other places to go if people need to vent this way. It seems with that statement as if you are inviting Benedikte and/or myself and/or anyone else with a differing opinion to yours to leave from here and go to one of those places. I would extend the same invitation to you...there are places where people can go to gush endlessly without any critical thought and ignore/discredit anything to their image of a particular person.

Finally, thank you for clearly proving the point of my original post.

To anyone else who can read this before it is deleted - I agree that opinions can be expressed in a civil manner generating discussion and many times I have been on the other side of an issue (at least once with UserDane IIRC) and we expressed our opinions and came to respectful disagreement. But in this instance, I expressed no opinion about Marie. Therein lies the problem. When one poster cautions another about the consequences of their post, they are attacked...usually repeatedly and ending up in the elimination of discussion, which I thought was the purpose here. This situation seems only to occur in relation to the Danish Royal Family, and as I stated earlier, with Mary in particular. Maybe moderators could advise everyone to ignore the posts on the opposing side...but then that would be eliminating discussion.

I'm guilty of it as well, purely by responding here I am not ignoring. Glad I'm not a moderator.

[Al_bina]

Well ... European Crown Princesses and Princesses have got a lacklustre educational background and glossed CVs. That is not a big tragedy. They are not going to harm anyone, I guess. Getting M.Sc. is not essential for some Europeans.

[nwinther]

Originally Posted by Rascal

Yes, there are other places to go if people need to vent this way. It seems with that statement as if you are inviting Benedikte and/or myself and/or anyone else with a differing opinion to yours to leave from here and go to one of those places. I would extend the same invitation to you...there are places where people can go to gush endlessly without any critical thought and ignore/discredit anything to their image of a particular person.

Criticism where criticism is due.
I find it completely acceptable to critizise Marie for fiddling with her resumé. But once that criticism is extended, give it a rest.

Another thing is when lies and/or malignant rumours are promoted. As said above, criticism where it's due, but calling people names or accusing them of something they haven't done is uncalled for - especially when it comes to people who cannot defend themselves, such as the DRF.

In those instances, I for one, will go out of my way to push the proponent of the rumours to his/her utmost for concrete evidence and don't expect any quarter.

The seriousness of promoting (false) rumours only gets worse when it happens on international forums like this one, where residents of other countries have little or no chance to confirm or repulse the nature, size or seriousness of a rumour, situation etc.

The gossip-press can escalate a situation - or make it seem so - on a cover or a small article. Some people in this thread grab these headlines and suggest, nay, insist they have merit when they don't. And to foreigners is may seem that the DRF is dissolved, being dragged to the guillotine or performs morally depraved excercises and that this is common knowledge.

As a Danish citizen I refuse to let such malice and sewing of discord pass unopposed.

You are entitled to your opinion - everyone is - but you are not entitled to go around slandering other people or spreading false rumours, especially not about my Sovereign. {edit}

[Al_bina]

As usually, European courtiers are clumsy dealing with the situation. They should have checked everything and been prepared to deal with the gossip -press that easily escalates any situation as well as should have done a better job lying about the resume.

[UserDane]

Originally Posted by Rascal

Thank you for making assumptions about my thoughts/feelings/attitude toward Marie and attacking me based on your assumptions.

Yes, there are other places to go if people need to vent this way. It seems with that statement as if you are inviting Benedikte and/or myself and/or anyone else with a differing opinion to yours to leave from here and go to one of those places. I would extend the same invitation to you...there are places where people can go to gush endlessly without any critical thought and ignore/discredit anything to their image of a particular person.

Finally, thank you for clearly proving the point of my original post.

To anyone else who can read this before it is deleted - I agree that opinions can be expressed in a civil manner generating discussion and many times I have been on the other side of an issue (at least once with UserDane IIRC) and we expressed our opinions and came to respectful disagreement. But in this instance, I expressed no opinion about Marie. Therein lies the problem. When one poster cautions another about the consequences of their post, they are attacked...usually repeatedly and ending up in the elimination of discussion, which I thought was the purpose here. This situation seems only to occur in relation to the Danish Royal Family, and as I stated earlier, with Mary in particular. Maybe moderators could advise everyone to ignore the posts on the opposing side...but then that would be eliminating discussion.

I'm guilty of it as well, purely by responding here I am not ignoring. Glad I'm not a moderator.

I have no problem with people disagreing and discussing various aspects of royals (or other matters). I just detest the below-the-belt method which Benedikte in my opinion used. No, you did not state an opinion about Marie and my intention was not to include you in Benedikte's views; my, apparently failed, intention was to question the method - whether the bar hasn't ben set to low if this is the way we express our likes and dislikes? If you feel that I categorized you wrongly for that, I apologize. My intention was more to question if you feel that Benedikte's methods are OK, I don't think so. If she is on a hate quest, this is not the place - my opinion of course.
And thanks, if I ever feel the need to just 'gush' I'll be sure to look up some appropriate sites.

Addition: forgot to say: I did not attack you, I questioned which is different in my view.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by nwinther

In those instances, I for one, will go out of my way to push the proponent of the rumours to his/her utmost for concrete evidence and don't expect any quarter.

I am in absolute agreement about questioning anyone for sources on something they allege as fact. Particularly in regards to the statements mentioned in the original post. However, when someone provides examples of their impressions based on images, events, or personal communication with another person/royal, that is about their own impression/opinion. Unfortunately, however, with the Danish princesses it seems their fans/supporters oftentimes attack the person expressing their opinion. Even if every person who posts in support of them has actually met them (which is unlikely), the vast majority of them would have done so only in a professional (royal event) capacity/setting which does not give a clear picture of the person any more than a photo selected for a magazine or footage on Youtube. For the very few who may have spent time with any royal beyond a simple greeting, it would be very easy for them to have a very favorable impression of said royal because if they gush over them they way they do here and feed their egos to bursting, of course that royal will respond with kindness, appreciation, sweetness, etc. I don't think the same response would come when that royal was questioned about anything that was embarassing/mistake they made/put them into a light other than the generally assumed role of a royal. Beyond that, the fan/supporter could be a family member or personal friend of the royal prior to their notoriety, in which case that fan/supporters outlook/opinion may be a bit biased. And if they were a family member or true friend, they would recognize that speaking about their friend/family member at all can actually be contrary to the royal in question.

[Rascal]

Originally Posted by Al_bina

As usually, European courtiers are clumsy dealing with the situation. They should have checked everything and been prepared to deal with the gossip -press that easily escalates any situation as well as should have done a better job lying about the resume.

Originally Posted by nwinther

As said above, criticism where it's due, but calling people names or accusing them of something they haven't done is uncalled for - especially when it comes to people who cannot defend themselves, such as the DRF.

Perhaps at the time Marie did not have the support system of the royal court...I don't know. I didn't follow her or her relationship with Joachim very closely. But all of the royal families have a court/press office that is able to advise them and when necessary respond in whatever manner they choose to any comments. Most of them tend to follow the time-honored tradition of no response. But that does not mean people cannot defend themselves. It means they choose not to do so, even if they pay any attention to all to these types of forums (not likely).

In regards to Benedikte's statements about Marie, IMHO they are probably wrong for the most part. And they could definitely have been presented in a more productive manner. But couldn't these last two sentences have been posted by one of the fans/supporters of Marie or the DRF? For all the posting about what a person can/cannot or should/should say or how they say it, it seems that (especially with a Newbie) it would be more productive and possibly generate a more interesting discussion than the attacking (I know...it's a strong word) that occurs and ultimately amounts to telling a person to shut up or leave if they can't express an opinion in alignment with the fan/supporter's.

[FasterB]

Originally Posted by nwinther

Eh? Did "everyone" really think that?

No, "everyone" didn´t think that. To be honest then "We, the Danes" thought that she was a bit open-mouthed and "We, the Danes" didn´t think that Prince Joachim would choose to marry her.

But when they announced their engagement, then "We, the Danes" were happy for them and everything was forgotten