Marie Cavallier: Degreed? Assumptions? True or False?

[Madame Royale]

Joachim seems quite the tuned in indavidual. I doubt he'd marry a 'dud'...

Time will tell though.

[rosalee]

So many royals do not have formal education and one has to wonder, it's not about the money or anything? (e.g., Princesses of Monaco). Marie's parents would have had to pay about 8x the normal fees for her to attend University in the USA as an "alien". A one-bedroom apartment in Manhattan in even a decent building in Greenwich Village would cost around $4000USD+++ per month plus utilities and Internet and, etc ... I don't know how much money her parents have, but that would have made her stay in Manhattan about $7000 per month. I think that's rather lavish for a student anyway, no matter what the background. She would need to learn about life itself.

I wish her well and hope she takes the time to finish a degree she struggled to get and get on with her married life. She was smart and hearty enough to land a prince and will need some smarts to shine in that family. They're all fairly smart people and she must have something to say of intelligence.

She is, after all, a girl marrying a boy she's in love with. I doubt he cares what she's studied.

R.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by Charlotte1

The interview Marie gave was in a March 2006 issue of Billed Bladet, she was tracked down in Geneva by the same journalist who tracked Mary Donaldson down in Sydney to break the news that Frederik had an Australian girlfriend. The journalist's name is Anna Johannesen.

An example of message board discussion that made it into a tabloid story. Not Marie and Joachim but illustrates my point. A year or so ago Camilla was pictured wearing a brooch with the Prince of Wales feathers ( which she had actually worn before) A discussion ensued on at least 2 message boards, including this one, whether or not the brooch Camilla was wearing had previously been worn by Diana. Message boarders hunted up pictures and posted them to compare. There was a 4 day gap between when Camilla's picture appeared in the British papers at a function wearing the brooch ( no mention of Diana) to when the story actually appeared in the tabloids with screaming headlines, Camilla wearing Diana's jewellery. It was the message boarders who spotted it, and several days later it hit the papers.

It's not just TRFs that are quoted and used, if a really negative story is needed then quotes are taken from royalty message boards who seem to specialise in negative comments. Quotes are attributed in the story to 'royalty watchers'. Certain women's magazines journalists have admitted using message boards, they don't make any secret of it. ( Australia magazines here)

Tabloid magazines ( generally women's magazines who report on royalty) gleen stories where ever they can and yes they do make them up! The German tabloid editors have even gone public and admitted it by saying first they get a picture then 'interpret' what is happening in the picture and then write the story. Don't underestimate the message boarders many actually do have quite a bit of knowledge, and there are some boards which are very educational, I've learnt a lot! Few journalists actually have the kind of long term royalty knowledge that someone who has being following royalty for years has. I haven't been following royalty all that long and even I get irritated by the mistakes I see in articles.

A kind of 'Chinese whispers' tends to happen too, once something about a royal is written, regardless of whether it's correct or not ( a major problem with Wikipedia! Their criteria is that a source needs to be provided, but there is no requirement that the source be accurate) the piece of information gets repeated and then suddenly it becomes a fact. Such as Marie's "I studied in Boston" to she went to Boston College ( which by the way is still on her Wikipedia page). I know that if I had the time and energy to read archival threads I could find the discussions on when it went from studying in Boston to she went to Boston College. I remember it!

Royalty reporting is not 'hard' journalism, simply because royalty now is seen as part of celebrity culture. Look at the type of stories that are written about, mostly on the royals love lives, children, women's clothing. Very little on the roles the royals carry out, the issues they promote. How many articles have you read on Charles and Camilla's relationship, compare with how many articles are on their work? I read the official website to have an idea of what they're doing, about 10% of the press releases on their patronages and the work they do actually makes the media. But 'Camilla miserable' or 'Charles foolish' stories sell tabloids which are not 'hard' journalistic outlets.

Yes, thank you.

A gentleman on another site graciously translated two long articles from Billed Bladet. Even though the structure (as well as the use of awkward words) of the articles made it difficult to fully comprehend what was being stated, I’m sorry to say. Overall interview gave me a lot of insight regarding Marie, her relationship with Joachim, and her education whilst in the US. The journalist noted, that she did graduate (which college I am still confused about.) Good to know and perhaps that’s the answer Se og Hor should read. However, I did have few questions after I read the entire Billed Bladet articles, and yes, I am still wondering what university she attended whilst in Boston (she states Wellesley not Babson directly) as well as some other questions.

Now I am in the minority when I say this, but when it comes to the media: I question everything and trust no one (sorry to sound so cynical, but I’ve been duped by several people in the past who have stated over and over again they had “close ties” with particular royals from a Scandinavian country.)

Furthermore, this applies to all aspects of the media; hence the magazines who report nothing but glowing/gushing reviews (Billed Bladet) as well as those who constantly attack (Se og Hor). These specific magazines have an agenda just like "message boarders" who become irate when one does not agree with their "side" (for or against). These varying views are demonstrated on several sites. That is why questioned this whole story regarding Marie’s education. Should I blatantly trust Billed Bladet or Se og Hor every time they print something about royals? Nevertheless, I wish you had read my original post when I noted that this story is most likely untrue. With that, I still had some questions, which irritated several members both on and off TRF.

Now, CharlotteAntonia, I am well aware that various journalists who report on royals are not considered "hard" and/or "hard" journalism. That being said, they still have a job to do, and I believe that they would still take it semi-seriously like any other news story. Therefore, yes, I am giving them an inch of credit.

Finally, I do realize there are a few members who have written well-respected books about a particular royal and who have an in depth scholarly knowledge about them. For example, Marlene who wrote the book entitled Queen Victoria's Descendants; however, she is a rare gem, and we are lucky to have her post on TRF’s. On a whole, I cannot agree with your testament that a majority of “message boarders” may be in the league of Marlene and others such as David Cannadine. More importantly, Charlotte, please do not take my comments the wrong way.

In sum, it was recently implied, here and on another board, that higher learning might not be important to everyone thus it seems trite to even discuss this whole story. Obviously, obtaining a higher education is not for everyone, but I do not believe discussing this untrue Se og Hor story is meaningless. It creates discussion, which is important on a discussion forum, rather than gushing over photos in every other post.

By the way, Charlotte, thank you for your comments as well as contributing TRF's.

[Charlotte1]

Some more research on when the information we have on Marie's education came out, I see GT you've found the Billed Bladet article that came out in October 2007. This was a Danish translation of an interview done in French with Etienne de Montpazat for Point de Vue magazine both Marie and Joachim we interviewed. ( Mary Donaldson also did one at the time of her engagement). Hello magazine had extracts of this interview Nov 2007 and although I haven't checked I think it would be safe to say that Spanish extracts were published in Hola. Therefore information about Marie's education has been public, and made public by her since Oct 2007, so the controversy about her education is one now manufactured by a tabloid magazine.


As far as the contribution of the message boarders, you're missing my point. It's not that I'm saying that the majority of message boarders are in the league of specialist royalty writters, but there are specialists who do contribute, not necessarily to this board but other specialist boards. Anyway as far as the royalty journalist is concerned their contributions are not the ones they want, it's the chatter "Camilla v Di" "Marie's education" "Is Mary happy?" that then leads into stories. The ideas don't just come from 'interpreting' photos but also from what people are discussing on forums. It still hinges on the fact that there are few if any royalty specialist journalists therefore the journalists that do cover royalty tend to go for simplistic coverage. Eg Peter Philips having to renounce his place in the line of succession because he's marrying a catholic. There is no renouncing, he marries a catholic and he's not in succession. Articles have constantly stated he's going to renounce, when a royalty specialist on a message board actually emailed the journalist in question they journalist answered back saying most people wouldn't know what he wrote wasn't correct!

[carlota]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

You don't need a degree to possess the qualities which would encourage a friendly and charming public image. As long as Marie goes about her duty with a common touch, lovely smile and general enthusiasm, I can't imagine her education being that great of a deal.

i completely agree. besides, isn't it just easier to wait for the official biography that the danish royal court will soon release? i can't remember when mary's biography was made public on the website, but i'm sure we won't have to wait long for it. i doubt they would lie about what degree (if any) marie has - as it's something easy to find out.

[Fashionista100]

According to Marie she graduated from the school in Manhatten. I forgot the name of it. She did mention it. She said in an interview she had trouble in Boston with the language and fitting in. But that she got on well in Manhatten. She thought Boston was too European and NY was more American.

Not trying to start a comparison btwn the two. But I've never read Alex had a degree. I know she attended many Universities but I've never read about a completion. Even on her website the last time I checked it didn't say. Does anyone know? If it turns out she doesn't have one, why should Marie?

[Australian]

Originally Posted by Fashionista100

Not trying to start a comparison btwn the two. But I've never read Alex had a degree. I know she attended many Universities but I've never read about a completion. Even on her website the last time I checked it didn't say. Does anyone know? If it turns out she doesn't have one, why should Marie?

Because it was implied/ claimed that Marie did have a degree.

[Paty]

And what important is that Marie didn´t has a degree?

[Gaia]

(she states Wellesley not Babson directly)

Babson is in Wellesley, Mass and probably within spitting distance to Wellesley College as the town is small. I am pleased that the Boston College rumor is put to bed in this interview.

I remember a now defunct royal board whose members used to laugh at how their actual sentences were quoted in Aussie magazines. In the US, fans of Brangelina took on the NY Times when a contributor to the paper used internet chatter as fact in her article, so I do think the contributors to the printed media are using the boards as material.

We only have two months and hopefully this will be answered. I am curious now about Alexandra...professional student?

[Australian]

It's not important at all, at least in my opinion. What some people have an issue with is that it was claimed that she had a degree and that is now being bought into question, thats all. It is not a question of importance of the degree, just if she does in fact have one like it is claimed.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by Charlotte1

As far as the contribution of the message boarders, you're missing my point. It's not that I'm saying that the majority of message boarders are in the league of specialist royalty writters, but there are specialists who do contribute, not necessarily to this board but other specialist boards. Anyway as far as the royalty journalist is concerned their contributions are not the ones they want, it's the chatter "Camilla v Di" "Marie's education" "Is Mary happy?" that then leads into stories. The ideas don't just come from 'interpreting' photos but also from what people are discussing on forums. It still hinges on the fact that there are few if any royalty specialist journalists therefore the journalists that do cover royalty tend to go for simplistic coverage. Eg Peter Philips having to renounce his place in the line of succession because he's marrying a catholic. There is no renouncing, he marries a catholic and he's not in succession. Articles have constantly stated he's going to renounce, when a royalty specialist on a message board actually emailed the journalist in question they journalist answered back saying most people wouldn't know what he wrote wasn't correct!

Charlotte, I've heard your sentiments for the past day and a half, and with all due respect, your statements still have not thoroughly convinced me. Thus I am not missing your point nor have I since the first time you mentioned it. If you can provide concrete evidence to support your claim (hence recent published books, articles minus the reference from Billed Bladet ages ago, regarding the DRF specifically Marie) -- again not hearsay -- that would hold up in court then perhaps the tide will turn.

Babson is in Wellesley, Mass and probably within spitting distance to Wellesley College as the town is small.

Yes, I knew that already since my neighbor is an Alumni, but in one of the articles she notes Wellesley not Babson directly. What it comes down to at this point, is that it seems she has graduated from somewhere. As a result, Ser og Hor's story is just that... a story.

[acdc1]

This just confuses me. I'm just about ready for Marie to come out and say "Yes, I went to so-and-so college, and I graduated" or "No, I attended but didn't graduate and made coffee for people in New York" (although it's highly unlikely that she'd do that). For all we know, neither of these are the true situation! It's so hard to separate fact from fiction these days.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Frankly, it seems to be half and half. Even with dictionaries (Hi Muhler) next to desks some members are still confused with those two awkward articles. Without a doubt, Marie will weather this storm like she has in the past... bless her heart. This Se og Hor story just doesn't fly and the gushing Billed Bladet (darn those language barriers) articles aren't helping either.

[Martha]

Nowadays, because of media is more difficult try to hide some information. Danish Royal House shows a good position for a future Princess.

[ricarda]

Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

What it comes down to at this point, is that it seems she has graduated from somewhere. As a result, Ser og Hor's story is just that... a story.

According to S&H she did finish her studies of liberal arts at Marymount Manhattan College. Therefore I assumed she does have a bachelor degree in liberal arts.

I personally think Marie is a well educated woman and I don't really care where and what she studied and whether she finished her studies or not. From the beginning she appeared to me as the well protected child of wealthy parents (flat from Daddy, job in step-Daddy's company), not as someone who had to go the hard way in life or as a self-made career woman. That makes her a lucky girl, not a bad girl.

But according to S&H and CPH Post it was claimed she has a degree in marketing, trade and IT (which seems to rank higher than liberal arts). And what irritates me much more than the S&H article is actually what CPH Post writes:

During the engagement, the royal press officer distributed information about the future princess, stating that she had a bachelor degree in marketing and IT from Marymount Manhattan College in New York and also that she had studied business at Babson College in Boston for two years.

I like Marie, I just want to know the truth.
But perhaps S&H is wrong and the information distributed by the royal press officer is right? Or perhaps CPH Post is wrong.

carlota
besides, isn't it just easier to wait for the official biography that the danish royal court will soon release? i can't remember when mary's biography was made public on the website, but i'm sure we won't have to wait long for it. i doubt they would lie about what degree (if any) marie has - as it's something easy to find out.

AFAIR Mary's CV was online as soon as the engagement was announced. Obviously they are doing things differently with Marie. I have the feeling we will have to wait for the official CV of Marie until May although it would make things easier.

[norwegianne]

The Danish court didn't release any information on Marie's education/work, as far as I'm aware. From what I remember from the Billedbladet article which did mention her education and work - nothing about "The Palace said" was mentioned. Billedbladet is rather fond of throwing any connection to the palace around, (It's not for nothing they call themselves Denmark's Royal Magazine) so if it had been released from the upper level, I'm sure we would have heard it

Given that the official biographies on Kongehuset.dk also have a point called "education" I think it is safe to say that once Marie is part of the royal family and have her biography on there - we will get a final resolution.

Until then does it really matter? And, as long as the Palace are not actively trying to lie to the press, does it matter where she got her degree if she got it? Mette-Marit did not complete her degree, and she's managed ok enough in the years she has been the Crown princess of Norway. For that matter, CP Victoria of Sweden has also done a lot of courses within many different areas, without getting an actual degree, but still manages to be well-rounded and do her royal duties.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Until then does it really matter?

Well, as some one else noted in another thread (however it's a slightly different situation, but still extraordinarily petty)... yes.

It all depends on ones perspective. For some it is a major whoopdeedo, while others not so much.

[Madame Royale]

I couldn't have cared if Marie worked as a florist, to me, all this talk about her education (the validity of) really doesn't matter much because a degree does not provide someone with the qualities to be a charming, friendly and enthusiastic indavidual. She isn't looking for a job, she is looking towards a way of life which requires a tolerance and understanding of etiquette, public standing and physical representation. Smiling, shaking hands and making polite and interested conversation needs no degree as it is something, I would have hoped, we should all be familiar with. It just so happens these are amongst the primal influences surrounding court and need to be observed by those who personify the majesty of tradition, the humility of charity and the honour in national pride.

Marie would, I'm certain, possess a certain savoir-faire and I look forward to seing her envolvement with community initiatives and sectorial charities.

[acdc1]

I was looking at DRW's, and I found an interesting article in the section where Marie and Joachim got engaged. I can't directly link to the article, but it's about halfway down the page, in the article 'Denmark's divorced Prince Joachim to marry Marie Cavallier of France', from the International Herald Tribune.
Danish Royal Watchers

It mentions several spots about her life and education. This one I find quite interesting: "Cavallier went to Boston College where she studied commerce and marketing, and later moved to New York City where she worked with an IT company, Danish news agency Ritzau said."

It seems like this newspaper, or whatever it is, took its information from another news agency. What if the other news agency got information from yet another agency? It's like a pattern.

Above this article, where the folks from Danish Royal Watchers put a little bit about Marie's life, they said this: "Marie studied at Boston College and in New York and lived there for some years. Details about Marie's education and career are still unclear."

So, I think that we'll never quite know the truth until her official biography is put on the Danish Royal Family's website.

Oh, and whichever poster (sorry, I forgot!) said that it might have been a miscommunication between Marie and someone else (a journalist?), I totally agree. I saw the video of her with Joachim and the boys skiing, and a journalist asked her a question. She gave a puzzled looked and and answered very slowly, like she didn't understand what was being said. She then suddenly said "Oh!" and gave a direct answer, like she finally got the meaning of the question. So, if Marie doesn't understand exactly what she's saying, and was speaking to a journalist whose English skills aren't the best, either, it is easy to tell where a miscommunication could take place.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by acdc1

...So, I think that we'll never quite know the truth until her official biography is put on the Danish Royal Family's website.

Oh, and whichever poster (sorry, I forgot!) said that it might have been a miscommunication between Marie and someone else (a journalist?), I totally agree. I saw the video of her with Joachim and the boys skiing, and a journalist asked her a question. She gave a puzzled looked and and answered very slowly, like she didn't understand what was being said. She then suddenly said "Oh!" and gave a direct answer, like she finally got the meaning of the question. So, if Marie doesn't understand exactly what she's saying, and was speaking to a journalist whose English skills aren't the best, either, it is easy to tell where a miscommunication could take place.

:raises hand:

That would be me.

As for newpapers getting the same report, which happens all the time, it's called an unofficial press wire (at least that's what my friends cal it.) So it's understandable that if someone from a single press agency in Denmark reports something, another core or agency (mainly international) like Reuters or AP will pick up on the story and use it. Then other newscorps like MSNBC or CNN will pick it up, from there smaller local corps like ABC Channel 7 in Los Angeles will pick it up and so on and so on.

If the news continues to be "hot" these agencies and newsroom people will do their own investigations to find out more information. For example, the Spitzer story. If not, they'll drop it. In the end, the original story even if it's slightly flawed, will remain the same and forgotten internationally. But, in the country for which it orginated will still be "active." Did that make sense?