Marie Cavallier: Degreed? Assumptions? True or False?

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by acdc1

Babson college? I always heard that she was at Boston College.

Nobody knows...

The DRF PR members didn't give any information about Marie's education or CV to the media. They issued no statements on her background only on her future in the DRF, ie what she will be called, her change in religion and citizenship.

The media and message boarders ( where the media also gets it information) are the ones who made assumptions on where Marie went to school and her degrees.

Yes, but I noted in previous posts that some of this could have been off the record. Second, I'm not convinced the media soley relys on message boarders for their information. The other way around is more likely.

No-one lied and no-one misled, the media got things wrong and now use those errors to create a 'scandelous' story.

Could you provide evidence for this claim?

[HRH Kerry]

If creating a scandalous story on Marie was indeed the media's intent (), it worked. If it sold papers or achieved ratings then it definitely worked in their favor. These days you better not mis-step after your kindergarten graduation. After that its all down hill.

[Charlotte1]

Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

Nobody knows...




Yes, but I noted in previous posts that some of this could have been off the record. Second, I'm not convinced the media soley relys on message boarders for their information. The other way around is more likely.




Could you provide evidence for this claim?

It's not difficult to track this story. Marie gave one interview where she talked about her background, that's where she stated she had gone to Boston at age 17 to attend school. ( She named her boarding school in Switzerland that she attended prior to that) She didn't name her schools in the US nor did she claim she graduated from college.
After this interview the assumptions happened, message boarders mainly and it was assumed she graduated from Boston College, simply from the statement "I went to school in Boston" Her attendance at Boston College was even placed on her Wikipedia page.
The DRF statements about Marie are in the public domain and all can be tracked, no mention of Marie's schooling or job history.

As far as the new story about Denmark being misled about Marie's education, all that originated from the tabloid Se & Hor even the Copenhagen Post article quotes Se & Hor. Other news outlets who have used this story all base it on the Se & Hor story. Se & Hor have been quite openly determined to dig up whatever dirt they can on Marie's time in the US, they have actively been advertising for people with information about her. The college information comes from their digging.
I doubt very much if the DRF press office has made any statements 'of the record' to a down market tabloid.

Royalty message boards are used frequently to source royalty stories and commentary about royals. Often quotes attributed to 'seasoned royalty watchers' have come directly from a message board. You'd be surprised how often this kind of comment appears and then can be matched directly to a post on a message board written before the magazine article. Sometimes the message board itself is actually named in the story, the media doesn't rely soley on message boards I never wrote that, but a percentage of their stories do originate from message board commentary. Few magazines or media outlets actually do have specialist royalty commentators they tend to rely on larger magazines or news outlets. Australian magazines don't anymore have a royalty specialist, all their royalty stories comes directly from Danish magazines ( if about the DRF) and some sourced from message boards ( again easily tracked if one has the time and inclination to play match up with the stories and message boards) or the British tabloids if about the BRF. The other royals rarely rate a mention.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Charlotte1

It's not difficult to track this story. Marie gave one interview where she talked about her background, that's where she stated she had gone to Boston at age 17 to attend school. ( She named her boarding school in Switzerland that she attended prior to that) She didn't name her schools in the US nor did she claim she graduated from college.
After this interview the assumptions happened, message boarders mainly and it was assumed she graduated from Boston College, simply from the statement "I went to school in Boston" Her attendance at Boston College was even placed on her Wikipedia page.

Probably the same message boarders who endlessly discuss the value of Mary's degrees - and she has some! I wouldn't wonder if they gave the tabloid an idea that the education of a new princess is a topic people feel heartily about.

[Stefanie]

Obviously the bad media attention about her non-existing degrees seems to have come here to the board. I have the feeling that just because some of the posters don´t like Marie they make a big fuss about whether she has graduated or not. If Joachim doesn´t care so what´s the problem? The fact that she didn´t tell everything acurately doesn´t mean that she´s a liar. She was just charming enough not to tell just everybody that she isn´t as smart as Mary.....

[madeleine victoria]

Originally Posted by Stefanie

Obviously the bad media attention about her non-existing degrees seems to have come here to the board. I have the feeling that just because some of the posters don´t like Marie they make a big fuss about whether she has graduated or not. If Joachim doesn´t care so what´s the problem? The fact that she didn´t tell everything acurately doesn´t mean that she´s a liar. She was just charming enough not to tell just everybody that she isn´t as smart as Mary.....

Yup, that's true. But the point is Marie will be haunted by the media unless she made it clear or perhaps the DRF. But I don't think they will waste time feeding the media about the educational background of Marie. As far as they're concerned, Marie's background is suitable or well-enough to be the next Pss of Denmark. It's really up to Marie whether she will give-in to the media scrutiny or ignore them. Let's wait and see how she handles royal life.

[rominet09]

Whether she has got a degree or not has no importance with her future role

[Australian]

Originally Posted by rominet09

Whether she has got a degree or not has no importance with her future role

I agree. It really doesn't matter if she has a degree or not.....Whether it was just a case of miscommunication or someone just wanting to talk her up it doesnt make much difference in the long run. Its not like she needs a degree to be a princess.

[sgl]

Originally Posted by rominet09

Whether she has got a degree or not has no importance with her future role

Exactly! So what? It's not like she is an un-educated or illiterate person. This magazine Se & Hor sounds like they are searching high and low for anything that they feel might show Marie in a bad light. Too bad that this expose isn't causing the big fuss they were hoping for (I mean that sarcastically).

[BurberryBrit]

Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

how was she able to support herself for the past seven years on a paid interns salary?

Did you forget she comes from money? Any student from another country who studies in the US probably has financial support from their parents because it's incredibly expensive to study and live abroad (particularly in NY!).

[Amelia]

Originally Posted by Australian

I agree. It really doesn't matter if she has a degree or not.....Whether it was just a case of miscommunication or someone just wanting to talk her up it doesnt make much difference in the long run. Its not like she needs a degree to be a princess.

No she certainly doesn’t need a degree and I’m sure the Danish people won’t hold it against her if she doesn’t but the media are making it seem like Marie lied about her educational background. From reading some of the posts here it seems like the only ones that said Marie had certain degrees are the papers not Marie or the DRF but will the average Danish person take the time to find out if what they are saying is true. Once something is planted in a person’s mind, be it true or false, it is very hard to remove it. I really see this story popping up every now and again in years to come, which is very sad for Marie.

[HRH Kerry]

Originally Posted by Amelia

...but will the average Danish person take the time to find out if what they are saying is true...

If she was the crown princess, definitely! But I guess its a matter of wait and see.

I know that I would want to know if I was a citizen of Denmark if she misrepresented herself.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by Charlotte1

Marie gave one interview where she talked about her background, that's where she stated she had gone to Boston at age 17 to attend school. ( She named her boarding school in Switzerland that she attended prior to that) She didn't name her schools in the US nor did she claim she graduated from college.

Oh yes, you may be correct. I vaguely remember this. Could you please provide a source and/or link please so we can read it again as well as for future reference?

After this interview the assumptions happened, message boarders mainly and it was assumed she graduated from Boston College, simply from the statement "I went to school in Boston" Her attendance at Boston College was even placed on her Wikipedia page.

I'm sorry to say this, and I mean this in a polite manner, but believe you put to much blame and point fingers regarding "message boarders."

The DRF statements about Marie are in the public domain and all can be tracked, no mention of Marie's schooling or job history.

True, but remember she is essentially still a "private person". Until she is married then the tables turn.

As far as the new story about Denmark being misled about Marie's education, all that originated from the tabloid Se & Hor even the Copenhagen Post article quotes Se & Hor. Other news outlets who have used this story all base it on the Se & Hor story.

I see.

Se & Hor have been quite openly determined to dig up whatever dirt they can on Marie's time in the US, they have actively been advertising for people with information about her. The college information comes from their digging.

Yes, this was already discussed at length within this sub-forum sometime ago.

I doubt very much if the DRF press office has made any statements 'of the record' to a down market tabloid.

So your speculating?

Royalty message boards are used frequently to source royalty stories and commentary about royals. Often quotes attributed to 'seasoned royalty watchers' have come directly from a message board.

With all due respect, Charlotte, you give way too much credit to message boards, and yes, I am well aware The Royal Forums has been quoted in several newspapers including Billed Bladet and most recently The Times (London).

You'd be surprised how often this kind of comment appears and then can be matched directly to a post on a message board written before the magazine article. Sometimes the message board itself is actually named in the story, the media doesn't rely soley on message boards I never wrote that, but a percentage of their stories do originate from message board commentary.

Then there are some lazy journalists. Why would they use members or discussion forums, who have no idea what is going on, and use them and their sepculating comments thus turning them into stories? That makes no sense.


Thank you for your comments/post, by the way.

Obviously the bad media attention about her non-existing degrees seems to have come here to the board. If Joachim doesn´t care so what´s the problem? The fact that she didn´t tell everything acurately doesn´t mean that she´s a liar. She was just charming enough not to tell just everybody that she isn´t as smart as Mary

Stephanie, you should go back a page or two and you will quickly realize that is far from the truth... and that includes all three discussion forums in which the Danish Royal Family are the main focus. Furthermore, the notion that "...just because some of the posters don´t like Marie they make a big fuss about whether she has graduated or not" is incorrect. If you were referring to me, well, I have said over and over again that I do like her. As I said many times before, I believe she is a perfect match for Joachim, and is a sweet/nice girl. Just becasue I am not fawning/gushing over her every single time I post, doesn't mean I dislike her.

[wymanda]

Then there are some lazy journalists. Why would they use members or discussion forums, who have no idea what is going on, and use them and their sepculating comments thus turning them into stories? That makes no sense.

However there are some posters on this and other boards who quite openly admit they have connections. One who comes to mind is a noted author on the descendants of Queen Victoria who posts under her own name & who recently quoted direct contact she had had with the Private Secretary to the Princess Royal. This gives journo's " creedence" when accessing message boards for information and/or quotes.

[Amelia]

Originally Posted by HRH Kerry

If she was the crown princess, definitely! But I guess its a matter of wait and see.

I know that I would want to know if I was a citizen of Denmark if she misrepresented herself.

But how far would you go to see if she misrepresented herself? I presumed, like a lot of people I’m sure, that the information about Marie’s education and degree came from Marie or the DRF so I was very surprised when all of this started. Now according to one poster here the only thing that Marie actually said about her education in America is that she went to Boston at 17 and they then went on to declare she had a degree etc., but would the average Danish person take the time to look back and find out exactly what she said or will they take it all as it is printed, she said she had this degree and now it has been found out she doesn’t. It would be very easy from the articles going around at the moment to come to the conclusion that Marie lied and I think that for most people that is the conclusion that will be reached if the DRF PR people remain silent.

[Charlotte1]

Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

Oh yes, you may be correct. I vaguely remember this. Could you please provide a source and/or link please so we can read it again as well as for future reference?


I'm sorry to say this, and I mean this in a polite manner, but believe you put to much blame and point fingers regarding "message boarders."

With all due respect, Charlotte, you give way too much credit to message boards, and yes, I am well aware The Royal Forums has been quoted in several newspapers including Billed Bladet and most recently The Times (London).


Then there are some lazy journalists. Why would they use members or discussion forums, who have no idea what is going on, and use them and their sepculating comments thus turning them into stories? That makes no sense.


Thank you for your comments/post, by the way.

The interview Marie gave was in a March 2006 issue of Billed Bladet, she was tracked down in Geneva by the same journalist who tracked Mary Donaldson down in Sydney to break the news that Frederik had an Australian girlfriend. The journalist's name is Anna Johannesen.

An example of message board discussion that made it into a tabloid story. Not Marie and Joachim but illustrates my point. A year or so ago Camilla was pictured wearing a brooch with the Prince of Wales feathers ( which she had actually worn before) A discussion ensued on at least 2 message boards, including this one, whether or not the brooch Camilla was wearing had previously been worn by Diana. Message boarders hunted up pictures and posted them to compare. There was a 4 day gap between when Camilla's picture appeared in the British papers at a function wearing the brooch ( no mention of Diana) to when the story actually appeared in the tabloids with screaming headlines, Camilla wearing Diana's jewellery. It was the message boarders who spotted it, and several days later it hit the papers.

It's not just TRFs that are quoted and used, if a really negative story is needed then quotes are taken from royalty message boards who seem to specialise in negative comments. Quotes are attributed in the story to 'royalty watchers'. Certain women's magazines journalists have admitted using message boards, they don't make any secret of it. ( Australia magazines here)

Tabloid magazines ( generally women's magazines who report on royalty) gleen stories where ever they can and yes they do make them up! The German tabloid editors have even gone public and admitted it by saying first they get a picture then 'interpret' what is happening in the picture and then write the story. Don't underestimate the message boarders many actually do have quite a bit of knowledge, and there are some boards which are very educational, I've learnt a lot! Few journalists actually have the kind of long term royalty knowledge that someone who has being following royalty for years has. I haven't been following royalty all that long and even I get irritated by the mistakes I see in articles.

A kind of 'Chinese whispers' tends to happen too, once something about a royal is written, regardless of whether it's correct or not ( a major problem with Wikipedia! Their criteria is that a source needs to be provided, but there is no requirement that the source be accurate) the piece of information gets repeated and then suddenly it becomes a fact. Such as Marie's "I studied in Boston" to she went to Boston College ( which by the way is still on her Wikipedia page). I know that if I had the time and energy to read archival threads I could find the discussions on when it went from studying in Boston to she went to Boston College. I remember it!

Royalty reporting is not 'hard' journalism, simply because royalty now is seen as part of celebrity culture. Look at the type of stories that are written about, mostly on the royals love lives, children, women's clothing. Very little on the roles the royals carry out, the issues they promote. How many articles have you read on Charles and Camilla's relationship, compare with how many articles are on their work? I read the official website to have an idea of what they're doing, about 10% of the press releases on their patronages and the work they do actually makes the media. But 'Camilla miserable' or 'Charles foolish' stories sell tabloids which are not 'hard' journalistic outlets.

[HRH Kerry]

Originally Posted by Amelia

...It would be very easy from the articles going around at the moment to come to the conclusion that Marie lied and I think that for most people that is the conclusion that will be reached if the DRF PR people remain silent.

I agree. The DRF might take their stance in correcting these conclusions once Marie is indeed a part of the establishment by simply publishing her brief bio on their website. Maybe we would all have to wait until then. Who really knows but the DRF?

[Madame Royale]

You don't need a degree to possess the qualities which would encourage a friendly and charming public image. As long as Marie goes about her duty with a common touch, lovely smile and general enthusiasm, I can't imagine her education being that great of a deal.

She presents the part, so lets hope she's as nice a person as she looks. I'll certainly be putting her through the ringer...

[Empress]

Well, I know that the past is the past, but in the past, Princesses, and even Princes to some extent, were not expected to hold a degree. It was all about family ties.

Now, times change, and I think that anyone who is going to be moving in such circles needs to be able to hold an intelligent, well thought out and educated conversation. As long as she can do that, well, she won't be sitting on a throne will she?

Her job will in essence be to support Joachim. And their jobs will be to support Fred and Mary and not be an embarrassment. And I doubt seriously that they would be getting married if she did not have the intelligence and social graces to do the job that she is now destined to do.

That being said, I think alot of people put alot of emphasis on degrees rather than life experience, and I don't think that it is all that it is cracked up to be. Quite honestly, I don't think that I am using a thing that I learned in University with the exception of working in groups, and I am working in the field that I went to school for.

None the less, I think that it would play better in the public sphere were she to have a degree. People tend to have different standards when it comes to royals than they have themselves.

Although, at the same time, which of the current set of royals (Kings/Queens to be) have an actual degree in a specialised subject?

[wymanda]

Personally I think that the aim here is to make Marie look a less attractive consort than Alexandra was. The Danish people seem to still be besotted with A. Hopefully once Joachim is married to Marie, Alex will quietly fade into the background.