Lead-Up to Joachim and Marie's Wedding, 24th May 2008

[ladybelline]

One is Crown Princess Mary, the other will be Princess Marie. And still, maybe Marie will be officially Princess "Marie Agathe" ? that would be nice.

 

[magnik]

One is Crown Princess Mary, the other will be Princess Marie. And still, maybe Marie will be officially Princess "Marie Agathe" ? that would be nice.

Officialy she will be styled Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Marie
Kongehuset - Aktuelt - Nyheder

Little difference between spelling:
Mary - MER-ee
and Marie - ma-REE (French), mah-REE (German)


Maybe there would start call them for example
Mary the Older and Marie the Younger or
Mary the First and Marie the Second???

 

[Empress]

What do you exactly mean, that she doesnt deserve the title "princess"?

I don't think that biboquinhas was saying that she did not deserve it, at least as far as I can see. Although there are not that many Danish princesses, not as many as in England, or Asian countries say, so I am not sure what he means either.

 

[lyndaW]

I hope Marie has a Cinderella-style wedding dress and wedding. It would be nice if Prince Joachim's two sons stood up with him. Wonder who the Maid/Matron of honor will be ?

 

[norwegianne]

Officialy she will be styled Hendes Kongelige Højhed Prinsesse Marie
Kongehuset - Aktuelt - Nyheder

Little difference between spelling:
Mary - MER-ee
and Marie - ma-REE (French), mah-REE (German)

Maybe there would start call them Mary the Older and Marie the Younger or Mary the First and Marie the Second???

Of course, the main difference is that the end -e in Danish is pronounced, so the names don't really sound similar at all.

 

[UserDane]

Of course, the main difference is that the end -e in Danish is pronounced, so the names don't really sound similar at all.

It seems that it is non-Danes who have the trouble with distinguishing between the two - the names are sufficiently different from each other in Danish.
And even if they weren't, it wouldn't be such a big deal I think. There has been two young princesses called Alexandra at the same time in the family, so a Marie and a Mary is not really a problem

 

[magnik]

So there wouldn't be a problem if they for example will go for some event together - CPM and PM

 

[LadyS]

Will Marie pick a Danish designer for her dress?

I suppose she isn't obligated too but it would be a nice gesture as she will be a Danish princess.

Any ideas of style or is that a question for another thread?

 

[Jo of Palatine]

O.k I dind't know that! Sorry! Another Danish Princess, oh my God!!!!

They don't have that many, do they? I like it that the queen supports Jaochim and Marie on allowing the second wife the same privileges that the first had. If Alexandra had died, noone would wonder about the fact that the second wife will be princess as well. It's about time that the RFs recognize that the laws of their countries are above them. As Denmark accepts divorce, it's good that the RF does it as well. I always disliked the fact that Camilla is only called Duchess when she is the Princess of Wales as the legal wife of the prince. But finally she is presented in public in all the glamour of the wife of the prince and next king. While I guess we won't see that much of Marie and Joachim in public - seems both enjoy the peace and quiet of country life.

And I guess they'll keep Marie's appartment in Paris as a weekend resort...

 

[Currier]

I will be most interested in seeing the tiara Marie wear at her wedding. I am disappointed in the one gifted to Mary although it will be perfect someday for a young Isabella. Do you think the Queen is sorry she gave (not loaned) her tiny crown to Alexandra?

 

[Hanna Regina]

Do you think the Queen is sorry she gave (not loaned) her tiny crown to Alexandra?

I'm not sure what you mean by tiny crown. Alexandra's tiara isn't small at all, is it??

When the Queen was looking for a tiara for Mary, the upcoming divorce of Joachim and Alexandra was most likely already known to her. I don't think it was a coinsidence that it was announced a couple of months after the Crown princely wedding instead of before. The marriage must have been over for som time at that point, considering how the couple moved on.
The Queen must have been aware that a family heirloom from her grandmother would disappear from the family, and that might have effected her desicion to buy a tiara for Mary, and to buy a smaller and more modest piece with no emotional connection to her. Wasn't the diamond-drop tiara Margrethe's very first tiara, or at least one of the first she wore?

I think Marie will get a less grand tiara, similar to Mary's. It would look weird if the princess had grander jewellery than the Crown princess. But I hope she will get a more beautiful tiara, because I don't really like Mary's wedding tiara. I think it's too small for a her position as a Crown princess.

 

[Martha]

It could be a possibility that Marie Cavallier will be Princess Joachim.

 

[norwegianne]

It could be a possibility that Marie Cavallier will be Princess Joachim.

No, as mentioned several times above - she will be HRH Princess Marie of Denmark. The DRF don't really use the Princess "Husband's name" anymore. I think that Princess Viggo, Countess of Rosenborg, was one of the last to do so, and she died in 1966.

 

[princess olga]

I'm not sure what you mean by tiny crown. Alexandra's tiara isn't small at all, is it??

When the Queen was looking for a tiara for Mary, the upcoming divorce of Joachim and Alexandra was most likely already known to her. I don't think it was a coinsidence that it was announced a couple of months after the Crown princely wedding instead of before. The marriage must have been over for som time at that point, considering how the couple moved on.
The Queen must have been aware that a family heirloom from her grandmother would disappear from the family, and that might have effected her desicion to buy a tiara for Mary, and to buy a smaller and more modest piece with no emotional connection to her. Wasn't the diamond-drop tiara Margrethe's very first tiara, or at least one of the first she wore?

I think Marie will get a less grand tiara, similar to Mary's. It would look weird if the princess had grander jewellery than the Crown princess. But I hope she will get a more beautiful tiara, because I don't really like Mary's wedding tiara. I think it's too small for a her position as a Crown princess.

Completely agree with your theories. Mary's tiara even to me seemed a very subtle way of Margarethe putting the new CP in her place. Maybe that's putting it a bit extreme, but Mary's tiara imho is indeed too modest and small (not to mention ugly) for a crown princess: almost as if Margarethe wanted to say, albeit in a more-subtle than thou kind of way: 'you may be the new girl on the block, but know your place!'
I mean, there were plenty of better tiara's Margarethe could have loaned to her new daughter in law for the occasion but instead, gave her an ugly, insignificant-looking, almost invisible, non-heirloom piece! Royal subtlety if you ask moi!

 

[Madame Royale]

Maybe that's putting it a bit extreme

Yes, I would think so. I can't see how aquiring a tiara which was not before used by the dynasty, could be seen as putting Mary in her place.

In my mind, one is put in their place when they overstep 'the mark'. And knowing that Alexandra was to keep Queen Alexandrine's tiara, I think made Margrethe 'realise' that the Danish collection isn't that big, afterall. And even so, Mary is to wear everything Margrethe currently does so something small was probably seem as appropriate. It was afterall a wedding tiara.

And Mary does have the Desiree parure at her disposal. The only Crown Princess who, herself boasts, such a magnificant suite all to her own.

 

[Jo of Palatine]

Yes, I would think so. I can't see how aquiring a tiara which was not before used by the dynasty, could be seen as putting Mary in her place.

In my mind, one is put in their place when they overstep 'the mark'. And knowing that Alexandra was to keep Queen Alexandrine's tiara, I think made Margrethe 'realise' that the Danish collection isn't that big, afterall. And even so, Mary is to wear everything Margrethe currently does so something small was probably seem as appropriate. It was afterall a wedding tiara.

And Mary does have the Desiree parure at her disposal. The only Crown Princess who, herself boasts, such a magnificant suite all to her own.

Mary's wedding tiara was perfectly fitting to her style of bridal dress which featured renaissance motives - in the renaissance the techniques were not yet invented to create tiaras or necklaces like one could do in the Baroque or afterwards. They even had still difficulties in cutting stones, so often the creative idea of the designer was much more important than the actual craftsmanship. For example: Holbein did not only paint ladies in their finery but actually designed the dresses he then painted. Because due to the still rather poor knowledge of sewing dresses (or producing and colouring cloth) you needed an artist to use the available components and figure out what best to do with them. Or the lady herself was creatively talented.
Just think of the amount of Royal ladies in paintings who have nothing but rather simply made golden chains and golden nets for their hair. Glass was in the 1500s one of the most expensive materials for jewelery - when Catherine of Medici came to France her few necklaces of Murano glass were considered to be much more váluable than the gold she brought because it was rare and could be used to create something artistically - an art the goldsmiths did not yet really know. Artistic creations were all the rage.

And queen Margrethe is an artist herself, as is her son Joachim when it comes to designing jewelery. I can imagine that the fact of the upcoming divorce and the Alexandrine tiara leaving the family (though it may come back to the Joachim branch through one of the boys if Alexandra does not sell it) may have led to her decision to give the bride something new. But the actual design of the tiara in question surely was not influenced by the wish to save money or show Mary she is not wanted as a Crown Princess but to create something special for the bride and her wedding. Because since the wedding of course Mary can borrow whatever she likes from the Royal collection as she is one of the ladies of the family for whom the Royal collection was created.

I think Mary's wedding tiara was wonderful in the context of her bridal clothes.

 

[UserDane]

Completely agree with your theories. Mary's tiara even to me seemed a very subtle way of Margarethe putting the new CP in her place. Maybe that's putting it a bit extreme, but Mary's tiara imho is indeed too modest and small (not to mention ugly) for a crown princess: almost as if Margarethe wanted to say, albeit in a more-subtle than thou kind of way: 'you may be the new girl on the block, but know your place!'
I mean, there were plenty of better tiara's Margarethe could have loaned to her new daughter in law for the occasion but instead, gave her an ugly, insignificant-looking, almost invisible, non-heirloom piece! Royal subtlety if you ask moi!

No, the wedding tiara is far from ugly. It is quite delicate and very useable as an alternative to the much more imposing ruby set Mary also has. I am no expert, but it looks beautifully designed to me and who knows, the diamonds may be more beautiful (valuable) than some in more eye-catching tiaras.

As to putting Mary 'in her place' - why would QMII do that? She is not one to cause deliberate strife and there is no indication whatsoever of any strained relations between QMII and Mary, quite the contrarary I would say.

For a queen to be putting a new DIL deliberately down in connection with a wedding would be decidedly tacky, and QMII is certainly not tacky.

The queen has only made one major mistake in recent years - when she gave away the family diamond droplet tiara to Alexandra. It should only have been on loan.

 

[Paty]

Can someone translate this!

28-11: Maries fætter Frederik ... Billed-Bladet: Danmarks Royale Ugeblad...

 

[Stefan]

Mary's wedding tiara was perfectly fitting to her style of bridal dress which featured renaissance motives - in the renaissance the techniques were not yet invented to create tiaras or necklaces like one could do in the Baroque or afterwards. They even had still difficulties in cutting stones, so often the creative idea of the designer was much more important than the actual craftsmanship. For example: Holbein did not only paint ladies in their finery but actually designed the dresses he then painted. Because due to the still rather poor knowledge of sewing dresses (or producing and colouring cloth) you needed an artist to use the available components and figure out what best to do with them. Or the lady herself was creatively talented.
Just think of the amount of Royal ladies in paintings who have nothing but rather simply made golden chains and golden nets for their hair. Glass was in the 1500s one of the most expensive materials for jewelery - when Catherine of Medici came to France her few necklaces of Murano glass were considered to be much more váluable than the gold she brought because it was rare and could be used to create something artistically - an art the goldsmiths did not yet really know. Artistic creations were all the rage.

And queen Margrethe is an artist herself, as is her son Joachim when it comes to designing jewelery. I can imagine that the fact of the upcoming divorce and the Alexandrine tiara leaving the family (though it may come back to the Joachim branch through one of the boys if Alexandra does not sell it) may have led to her decision to give the bride something new. But the actual design of the tiara in question surely was not influenced by the wish to save money or show Mary she is not wanted as a Crown Princess but to create something special for the bride and her wedding. Because since the wedding of course Mary can borrow whatever she likes from the Royal collection as she is one of the ladies of the family for whom the Royal collection was created.

I think Mary's wedding tiara was wonderful in the context of her bridal clothes.

I think Mary's wedding tiara is not ugly it's nice and a little bit to small. I think it looked horrible on her Wedding day the way she wore it because it was almost not visible. She shoould it have worn the way she wears it now. I think reasons for Margrethe to not buy such a big tiara for Mary was also that Mary has the big Ruby parure to use.

I think a better way to keep tiaras in the Family would be to allow the in-laws to use the tiaras from the Family-Foundation and perhaps expand this with a few smaller tiaras.

 

[CPKatarina]

it just says that Marie also has a Frederik in her family. Her cousin Frederic Cavallier runs recruitment office in Brussels.

 

[lyndaW]

Yes, I would think so. I can't see how aquiring a tiara which was not before used by the dynasty, could be seen as putting Mary in her place.

In my mind, one is put in their place when they overstep 'the mark'. And knowing that Alexandra was to keep Queen Alexandrine's tiara, I think made Margrethe 'realise' that the Danish collection isn't that big, afterall. And even so, Mary is to wear everything Margrethe currently does so something small was probably seem as appropriate. It was afterall a wedding tiara.

And Mary does have the Desiree parure at her disposal. The only Crown Princess who, herself boasts, such a magnificant suite all to her own.

When Queen Ingrid died CP Frederick inherited the ruby and diamond Desiree parure. He then "presented" it to Mary Donaldson (I think the night before their marriage). My question is does CP Mary "own" the parure, or does it belong in the Royal Family Jewelery Collection.??????
If she owns it, could she legally sell it ???? Not that she would.
The same question would be her wedding tiara and the beautiful double strand of pearls (the pearls that Prince Henrik presented her with) ???
I realize that jewelry gifts purchsed for her by her husband belong only to her (I think ?)

 

[JessRulz]

When Queen Ingrid died CP Frederick inherited the ruby and diamond Desiree parure. He then "presented" it to Mary Donaldson (I think the night before their marriage). My question is does CP Mary "own" the parure, or does it belong in the Royal Family Jewelery Collection.??????
If she owns it, could she legally sell it ???? Not that she would.
The same question would be her wedding tiara and the beautiful double strand of pearls (the pearls that Prince Henrik presented her with) ???
I realize that jewelry gifts purchsed for her by her husband belong only to her (I think ?)

Mary doesn't own the parure, it belongs to Frederik. Mary has access to it whenever she wants to wear it though. I believe the wedding tiara is hers, to do whatever she likes with, but I could be wrong

 

[lyndaW]

Mary doesn't own the parure, it belongs to Frederik. Mary has access to it whenever she wants to wear it though. I believe the wedding tiara is hers, to do whatever she likes with, but I could be wrong

Thank you JessRulz it would be terrible if the lovely parure left the Danish Royal Family (for whatever reason). What about the lovely double strand of whote and black pearls that Prince Henrik gifted her with ?

 

[RachelD]

I wonder what tiara will be given to Marie? Something from the family vaults, like Alexandra's, or something bought for her specially, like Mary's?

 

[JessRulz]

Thank you JessRulz it would be terrible if the lovely parure left the Danish Royal Family (for whatever reason). What about the lovely double strand of whote and black pearls that Prince Henrik gifted her with ?

Well, if the necklace was a gift, then I'm assuming Mary can do whatever she pleases with it - include sell it if she needs to (which I doubt)

 

[UserDane]

I wonder what tiara will be given to Marie? Something from the family vaults, like Alexandra's, or something bought for her specially, like Mary's?

I hope they buy her something and do not repeat the big mistake of giving away a family tiara! - the royal family does not have enough tiaras to keep giving them away.
It would also look strange to me to give two DILs tiaras from the family collection and not the DIL who is a CP.
I still lament the tiaras that have left the family, queen Alexandrine's diamond drop and not least the khedive tiara (the 'wedding' tiara which queen Ingrid bequeathed to Anne-Marie)

 

[Principessa Cano]

Forgive my ignorance but won't the tiara they gave to Alexandra make its way back into the family anyhow, as it will be passed down to her sons, aka. the grandchildren of the queen?

 

[JessRulz]

Forgive my ignorance but won't the tiara they gave to Alexandra make its way back into the family anyhow, as it will be passed down to her sons, aka. the grandchildren of the queen?

IF it will be passed down to her sons. Alexandra could sell it before either Nikolai or Felix have any need for a tiara, or simply not give them the tiara

 

[Mandy]

I realize that discussing jewelry may be quite fascinating, but let's try to focus on the "Lead-up to Joachim and Marie's Wedding". You can discuss tiaras in the following threads:

Mary's Jewelry thread
Marie Cavallier's Jewelry thread
Alexandra's Jewelry thread

Thanks,

Mandy
Danish Forum Moderator

 

[lise]

I hope they buy her something and do not repeat the big mistake of giving away a family tiara! - the royal family does not have enough tiaras to keep giving them away.
It would also look strange to me to give two DILs tiaras from the family collection and not the DIL who is a CP.
I still lament the tiaras that have left the family, queen Alexandrine's diamond drop and not least the khedive tiara (the 'wedding' tiara which queen Ingrid bequeathed to Anne-Marie)

If they give Marie a tiara they should put a cause in the pre-nup, so that if Joachim and Marie divorce she has to give the tiara back.