General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 6: January 2021 -

[maria-olivia]

To me he was so happy with our Marie and had a new life with a warm person.
The interview in Point de Vue , i thought , was to say he was new in good condition.
But it seems in Denmark , the Point of Vues are different .
His Father Prince Henrik should have been grateful for what denmark has done for him.The Castle of Cayx , his collections of Jade etc...

[Muhler]

Well, he's at work these days.

France is heavily engaged in several countries in Sahara, among them Mali, where there is also a sizable UN-peacekeeping contingent.
Denmark is also involved there, with either an HQ, a helicopter contingent, a special forces contingent or a light combat contingent - depending on circumstances and what is needed. The next Danish unit to be deployed there is a helicopter contingent. - Under French command.
The aim is to combat Islamists there. And preventing them from establishing bases and training camps.
That has been going on for 10+ years now. With regular skirmishes.
The UN-troops have been suffering the most casualties though.
Partly because they try and protect tribes who are under attack, and partly because they are less well trained and much less well armed than the European forces there.
The war there is just as much between tribes than about religion, which makes the whole thing very murky.
And in-between we have bands of Tuaregs reverting to their old habits of marauding.
The situation is pretty much the same in Tchad, Mauritania and Niger. But now also spilling into the Central African Republic.
All that is within the French sphere of interest.

However, there has recently been a (another) military coup in Mali and President Macron has warned that if the government turn towards increased implementation of Islam in Mali, the French (and as such Danish) forces will be withdrawn.
Seemingly the people behind the coup omitted to inform France before committing the coup.
So Joachim is no doubt busy these days writing reports and having meetings and briefings with French officers and civil servants.

----------------

I myself will still prefer an elaboration of what Joachim really mean, before coming to any conclusions.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

I also disagree that they're planning to slim down the monarchy. That makes sense in the case of the BRF that has an overwhelming amount of members, many of which . But the DRF currently has 14 members. 6 of those are children. 4 have, since the day Christian was born, not been expected to have an official role within the monarchy. The DRF is already a slimmed-down monarchy and there's no need for further slimming down as that will happen naturally.

I've replied to this post in The Future of the Danish Monarchy.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Muhler

I believe he referred to himself as spare.

Anyway, it's annoying that he doesn't elaborate.

I can understand he won't do it the middle of the street, but Joachim needs to explain exactly what his misgivings are, soon, otherwise it will lead to a lot of needless speculation.
And for Joachim to be compared to another spare, (we all know who!) who is currently babbling away and shooting himself in the foot on a daily basis.

Talk about it, get it out in the open, so we the public can debate and agree or disagree, but do talk about it!
The cat is out of the bag, and it won't go back.

Part of the problem, though, is that it’s a complicated topic. For Joachim to give a full picture of his issues and misgivings would require a much lengthier interview! He’s also constrained in that giving the public a full picture of where he’s coming from would probably require going into detail about various family relationships and other things that most people would consider to be private.

I think the role of the spare is one of those topics where it’s best for the people involved to refrain from commenting in public as much as possible. There’s just no winning. The press doesn’t like complicated when it comes to royal coverage. Joachim could potentially give very thoughtful responses to questions about his role in the DRF, but it would be up to the press to report what he said accurately, within the correct context. I think Marie has made some ill considered statements over the years, but she hit the nail on the head in the recent interview when she said there always needs to be a villain. You see this to a greater or lesser extent in every royal family - sooner or later the heir and his/her family are built up by the royal court and the media, often at the expense of the spares.

I think the point someone else made above about how royal children work for a royal family from birth is very valid. The children are an integral part of a successful monarchy - all of them, not just the heir. In Joachim’s case he served the interests of the DRF well for a long time, and, with his marriage to Alexandra, may have been its strongest link for a number of years. He and his family certainly helped take some focus and pressure off Frederik during a time when, judging by Frederik’s own comments, he may not have coped so well with having to carry the full weight of everyone’s expectations. And there were almost certainly plenty of limits put on Joachim’s life - it’s not like he would have been told he could do whatever he wanted, marry anyone he wanted, live wherever he wanted, etc.

Most people have the expectation that they will personally benefit down the road from sacrifices they make, and that they will share in the rewards that come from anything they’ve done well. The problem with the life of a royal spare is that they’re making these sacrifices and doing good work for an organization that considers them expendable. If something bad happens with the monarch, the heir, or their spouses the official RF will circle the wagons and do whatever they can to make things right. If something bad happens with a lower level member of the family, they’re on their own. And even if nothing bad happens, over time the lower level members will still find they’re on their own. The organization that derived so much benefit from them has moved on.

I think Joachim has actually done well for himself, compared to his counterparts in other royal families. It’s hard to picture the UK or Spain, for example, agreeing to generously finance the second son’s ex spouse for many years. But I think there are parts of the lives of the non-heir children in every royal family that are legitimately not fair, and the money is only a small part of it. Honestly, there’s not much to be done about things for royals of Joachim’s generation, but hopefully this generation of royal parents will take on board that they need to be thoughtful and purposeful with the future of all of their children, not just the eldest.

[valeas]

Camelot you are making some good points and I agree to a lot of things,
but when taking a closer look the majority of spares are just fine with their life.
The BRF is an exception but due to what? Maybe structural changes needed like you proposed, but aswell probably a repeated weakness or unability of a parent when considering the situation ifs Margret, Andrew and now Harry.

Joachim is the son of his father and IMO tried to fulfill his expactations or what he himself considered those to be, reportedly a very strict father his son seemed to run after love and now taking over his father's late resentments, there's be a lot to analyse in this father-son relationship and nothing too special by the way, it's ordinary psychological patterns.

I think most royal families coped quite well with the upbringing of the spare. Women cope better, but that is to a certain extent due to male behaviour patters.

What I often think is we are making it a special situation because of the monarch
but is it really so much different to what ordinary families owning a farm or family business
have to do and have been doing ever since? The eldest takes over.

As most RF slim down because the acceptance of monarchy itself decreases in our days the possibility of just dragging along a spare gets more unlikely for the future so everybody has to do it's homework for the future , some do better some less, that's life.

[Muhler]

BT has published three surveys made by YouGov regarding Joachim's apanage.
https://www.bt.dk/royale/danskerne-i...ge-sig-apanage

The three surveys were phrased differently as seen here below:
Survey A:
Prince Joachim receive 3.9 million DKK from the state each year. How do you agree of disagree in the following:
Joachim must continue to receive an apanage at such an amount for as long as he lives.
46 % Disagree to varying extent. (No to such apanage for life)
21 % don't agree of disagree.
27 % agree to a varying extent. (Yes to such apanage for life.)
7 % don't know.

Survey B:
In 2019 Prince Joachim moved to Paris where he today works as a defense attache. He receive 3.9 million DKK a year in apanage from the state.
How do you agree or disagree with the following:
Prince Joachim should from and including 2022 himself give up the apanage.
21 don't agree to a varying extent. (He should not give up the apanage.)
22 don't agree or disagree.
49 % agree to a varying extent. (He should give up the apanage.)
7 % don't know.

Survey C:
In 2019 Prince Joachim moved to Paris, where he today works as a defense attache. He receive 3.9 million DKK a year in apanage from the state. How do you agree or disagree with the following:
A majority in the Parliament should decide to to strip Prince Joachim of the apanage taking affect in 2022.
26 % disagree to a varying extent. (Do not strip him of the apanage.)
22 % don't agree of disagree.
53 % agree to a varying extent. (Strip him of the apange.)

The surveys were conducted during 4-6th June 2021. (Over a weekend around the Constitution Day.)
1.240 adult Danes were asked.
The format was CAWI, which I don't know what is. Phone? Online? Asked in the streets?

- Two things to point out:
A: Assuming they didn't ask the same people all three questions, only 400 on average answered each question.
B: There is no way the Parliament will strip Joachim of his apanage on such a short notice. It simply will not happen, unless Joachim has committed a serious crime.
It is very doubtful the Parliament will strip Joachim (or any member of the DRF) of the apanage at all. Joachim will either give up his apanage more or less voluntarily or not.

[Somebody]

CAWI: Computer Assisted Web Interview; see this link for more information.

[polyesco]

Joachim and Marie back in Denmark at Tivoli
https://mobile.twitter.com/Heaven_Le...71600726396931

[Muhler]

https://www.bt.dk/royale/bts-royale-...por-arrogancen

This is an article in BT, by their royal reporter who is a person I don't have that much respect for on a professional level.
His comments has IMO a tendency to be based more on his personal interpretations and personal bias, then a detached analysis of facts.

You may recall that Joachim and our Marie some months ago in an interview expressed some frustrations in regards to their role and not least what Joachim's role in regards to being the - now superfluous - spare.
A very relevant topic, because what do we do with the spares, once the heir has enough children to ensure that the spare is really needed?
Do we pension them off?
Give them some sort of role?
Or do we let them go, to seek their own fortune? Something some may see as sacking them.

This article is a mix of the reporter whining about not getting an interview with Joachim or getting any remotely meaningful and interesting statement.
Because Joachim, according to our reporter here, flatly refused to discuss anything but the race. (*)
And a wish to know what Joachim actually meant.

The reporter has a point.
What exactly did Joachim mean?
What role can he envision for himself in the future?
What should have been done differently?
Very relevant questions, that Joachim cannot avoid forever.

(*) The first thing spring to mind is that the DRF is trying to do some damage control here by trying to silence the issue. The problem is that it doesn't work. The cat is out of the bag and the press won't stop, nor should they, because this is relevant to the public. And it's not an unreasonable issue to address.
I won't mention names, like say Archduchess Zelia, but it has been pointed out that the DRF are not always that good at damage control.
This is one such case.
If Frederik, Joachim and QMII haven't already had a long and serious meeting by now, they should ASAP and come out and say: Okay, we've been giving this some careful thought and we think/propose/will implement X, Y, Z.

It won't damage the DRF. QMII is secure. Almost sacrosanct. M&F are untouchable and to many the de facto reigning couple.
Coming out with something soon may hurt J&M.
Not doing anything will hurt J&M.

[Archduchess Zelia]

Absolutely agree. Another (or, perhaps more appropriately, a continuing) crystal clear example of DRF's disastrous damage control.

An interesting tidbit from the article is that the reporter mentions how the collected press corps was shocked with Joachim's behaviour (and with that, the DRF's behaviour, because, as Muhler says, he's undoubtedly been prepped for the meeting with the press by the DRF's communications department) and that several times, they were considering pulling out of the coverage of the event altogether because of this.

Although the reporter in question is undoubtedly angling the situation harsher than it was to gain traction for the article, if the press was even remotely close to making a statement as big as collectively withdrawing from an event like this, I think that's pretty evident of how grave the situation is.

Worst thing is that I think absolutely nothing will come of this. The DRF (as an institution) is simply too stubborn to admit fault and backtrack on their strategy.

In practice, I don't think anything will happen anytime soon. The parliament wouldn't dare touching the DRF with a barge pole. The only thing I think will happen is that J&M will drop even steeper in public estimation. Which is such a shame in the slipstream of Joachim's success with his TV series some years ago.

[ricarda]

And why shouldn't Joachim & Marie get hurt, why shouldn't their public estimation drop?
Nobody forced them to give those interviews and open that can of worms.
And now the DRF should control the damage they have done?
What are they supposed to do? Pull their tongues out?

Joachim is one big damage for the DRF. He got everything presented on a silver tableau but he is unable to make something of it. After the failure of his farm business he failed to find a role for himself (and he hasn't been the spare since 2005) and worked as little as his officially retired father. So his mother presents him and his French wife with a military education and a stay in France. After the TV serie he actually got a lot of praise and after his stroke a lot of sympathy. He could have build his future on that. But what does the looser do? He gives interviews where he claims that his role is not defined and that he feels the same frustration as his father. And when the journalists want to ask questions he displays his usual arrogance.

I agree with the writer of the BT article that Joachim & Marie love the limelight but they only want positive coverage, no critical questions. And Joachim can't be saved because he doesn't want to be saved.

But yeah, it's all Mary's or the queen's or the DRF's fault.

[Muhler]

Protest.

I think you are are harsh and unnecessary one-sided.

There is no need to call Joachim a loser. He is hardly the only one who had to give up on his business and losing a manor.

Yes, Joachim IMO talked without a proper strategy to back him up. But royals, just like normal human beings, sometimes say what's on their mind. It's becoming obvious to me that this is what happened in this interview.
Joachim said what he felt, when it would have been more prudent to keep his mouth shut. - We can in a sense be grateful for such things happening or this forum would be much less interesting...

The DRF does share a responsibility. It appears they may not intend to act on this outburst. Which is also a cry from Joachim about something that bothers him personally. We can debate endlessly whether Joachim is spoiled or not or whether he is being unfairly treated or not. What does matter is that he does have a point:
What do we do with the spares, once they are no longer needed as spares. In Joachim's case there are four healthy children ahead of him, hence he is no longer a spare. So what's to become of him and others in the same situation?
That is an issue that needs to be addressed. Because times have changed. The public will no longer accept a royal spare in perfect working order, retiring to a manor somewhere and live a comfortable life without obligations.

I can understand the DRF being caught off guard, but I can't see the wisdom in them staying quiet about it.
There can only be two reasons as I see it:
A: They hope to silence this and weather the storm - there really isn't any storm. Not right now. Fat chance of that succeeding though.
B: They are working on a solution and won't go public until an agreement with all parties, including the government, is in place.

Mary has nothing to do with anything. She is a best contributing with ideas and thoughts.
This is down to QMII, being the Monarch and Frederik, who seems to run most things on a daily basis these days.
They are either to knock Joachim on the head telling him: You are to do this and that and otherwise keep your mouth shut!
Or negotiate a solution that will suit all parties concerned.

[Archduchess Zelia]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to call Joachim a loser in the sense of a sore loser because regardless of anyone's personal feelings of him, that's simply how he comes across in these interviews. Like someone who hasn't gotten it the way he wanted.

I also don't think the problem of a spare's role is as big a problem after all. Because there was a role for Joachim. He had Schackenborg and a position as a part-time royal, and if you think about it, that's not a bad solution. The problem is that the solution was created for him rather than by him. Instead of letting him figure out what he wanted to do with his life, it was decided that he was to be a farmer. And that's where the DRF needs to do (and, considering M&F's parenting style, will do, I reckon) better with Isabella.

The problem with what to do with him when he was no longer a spare, as I see it, arose when he sold off Schackenborg and moved back to Copenhagen. Because it seems his and Marie's assumptions were that they could continue their part-time workload while having little-to-nothing on the side (Joachim ended up having his part-time job with the defence but very little suggests he spent a lot of hours on it and the DRF refused to provide the actual numbers for his workload, and Marie didn't have anything).

And that's where I take issue with his argument because before he was, if we're to believe J&M, forced into first the course and subsequently the position in Paris, he did have several years to figure out what to do with his life post-farming. But nothing came of it and they both just sort of continued doing very little for a quite substantial wage.


The DRF (and that being the DRF as an institution, not as a family) are involved whether they like to be or not because 1. Joachim is a part of the DRF, and 2. they're also the ones he's indirectly been criticising in those interviews. And as always, they've opted for the silent treatment. Problem is that I don't think the press is going to stop asking questions, and thus the hole they're digging themselves into is just getting deeper and deeper.

[Muhler]

Apart from the loser-lapel, which I have reservations against, (It's up to you to sell that one, if you believe you can.) you raise a number of interesting points.

As for Schackenorg. It has been described many times in this thread what condition the place was in when Joachim took over. So he had the odds against him.
Still Joachim soldiered on in a career he had not chosen. Like so many has to. - "You grandfather was an attorney, your father is an attorney, your sister is an attorney - you are also going to be an attorney!"
So does Frederik, and he sure had his misgivings about his career, when he was younger.

Anyway, it didn't work. Goodbye to Schackenborg.
And there were indeed a number of years where Joachim was in a kind of limbo, that are difficult to explain.

I'm still willing to bet on a depression.

Having gone through a costly divorce, where he got most of the blame, at least initially. And later having to sell his manor, where he was indeed labeled a loser in the eyes of some of the public, combined with him being a very proud man, that's a good recipe for a getting a depression.
I have fortunately never had a serious depression, but I have witnessed many. It's not something you just get over. You may never fully recover. And it changes you and your outlook fundamentally. And some are very good at hiding it - until they hang themselves...
Anyway, that's just my guess. - It would sure explain a lot of things though!

Then Joachim finally had a personal and public success. Being a narrator and documentarist. Something he is very good at. And something he could keep doing.
Then duty calls. Off to France.
We have debated this endlessly and I do not subscribe to the view that he a choice and could say no. - So I won't rehash that.

However, if my little pet-theory about a depression is correct, that would very much explain the little outbursts we have heard from Joachim and from his sympathetic wife.
Whether it's rational or not is besides the point, because no matter what, that is how Joachim (and our Marie) view his situation. The human aspect.

I mean, you can sit on top of a pile of gold-bars and still be depressed and express a view that may seem incomprehensible, spoiled and irrational to others. But that's not how you see it.

But back to what we do with Joachim.
I think the most humane thing would be, when he returns from France, to let him lose. No more work and no more obligations for the DRF. He is free to pursue his dreams and become a historical documentarist. - No apanage but a one time compensation that so many of us is eligible for when we are fired. But he should be able to live comfortable of his personal fortune for the rest of his life.
And when he turns say 65, he can get a pension comparable to what an ex-minister gets.

I think that is a model that could be used for future spares, Isabella being the next one.
Basically she belongs to the state and work for the DRF (part-time?) until she is say 50, with all the personal restrictions and conditions that entails.
Upon turning 50 she is free.
She gets a handsome compensation. (That's the least we can do IMO) and when she retires at the normal retirement age for her generation, she will get a pension comparable to a minister.
She will retain her title of Princess, but her children and husband will not get a royal title. He can get a title like Count of Trend or whatever.

If anyone has got other solutions it would be most interesting to learn about them.

[polyesco]

Evening at the theater for Joachim, Marie and the kids
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSci-n0A..._web_copy_link
Nice to see the family spending time in Denmark. Since Frederik is regent this week I assume the Queen might have gone to France.

And thank you Muhler and Zelia for the conversation regarding Joachim.
I do think Joachim and Marie did themselves no service by "complaining" and bringing up the topic multiple times in interviews. Now he doesnt want to follow up and that's unfair.

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by Muhler

I'm still willing to bet on a depression.

…

But back to what we do with Joachim.
I think the most humane thing would be, when he returns from France, to let him lose. No more work and no more obligations for the DRF. He is free to pursue his dreams and become a historical documentarist. - No apanage but a one time compensation that so many of us is eligible for when we are fired. But he should be able to live comfortable of his personal fortune for the rest of his life.
And when he turns say 65, he can get a pension comparable to what an ex-minister gets.

I think that is a model that could be used for future spares, Isabella being the next one.
Basically she belongs to the state and work for the DRF (part-time?) until she is say 50, with all the personal restrictions and conditions that entails.
Upon turning 50 she is free.
She gets a handsome compensation. (That's the least we can do IMO) and when she retires at the normal retirement age for her generation, she will get a pension comparable to a minister.
She will retain her title of Princess, but her children and husband will not get a royal title. He can get a title like Count of Trend or whatever.

If anyone has got other solutions it would be most interesting to learn about them.

It’s not uncommon for people to have some lasting problems after even minor strokes. Depression, yes, but also subtle cognitive or personality changes. A full recovery doesn’t always mean that the person is exactly the same as they were prior to the stroke. I can’t remember if the concerning comments were made before or after the stroke, but it’s something to consider.

Going forward, I continue to think the most logical and kind way of dealing with the “extra” children in the upcoming generation of European royalty is to prepare them for careers and adult lives that are separate from official royal duties.

In this particular case, Denmark is a small country, and the CP couple has four children. It’s unlikely there’s enough work for all of them, certainly not enough to justify hefty apanages well into their adult lives. Isabella, Vincent and Josephine should be prepared to earn their own livings, and should be free to pursue whatever interests they may have, whether that’s being a gentleman farmer in rural Denmark, or studying medicine in Australia, or starting a family in the US and raising children there. If they’re interested in attending the occasional state dinner or representing a Danish charity as a volunteer, great, but none of them should expect that they’ll be supporting themselves financially as full time working royals, nor should they feel the same sense of obligation towards Denmark and the Danish public that Christian does, or will.

[Archduchess Zelia]

The specific comments that the journalists wanted elaborated at the race were made after. But IMO it's just a continuation of the same type of comments he'd made prior to his stroke.

Originally Posted by Muhler

Apart from the loser-lapel, which I have reservations against, (It's up to you to sell that one, if you believe you can.) you raise a number of interesting points (...)

I'm afraid Joachim sells that one himself through his many statements

We've discussed your depression-theory before. My stance has not changed. I can't excuse his numerous outbursts on the basis of a theory that Joachim himself has not even been close to confirming, either directly or indirectly. (And why wouldn't he confirm it, if your theory holds? He has been very vocal in recent years after all – also on sensitive subjects such as him setting too high standards for Nikolai.)

The problem with the narrative of him finding his role as a documentarist and storyteller but it being overruled in favour of the military role by the DRF is, IMO, that a such role doesn't fill out the void that his position (that he, and we agree about this, was forced into) as a farmer left.

Reinventing himself as a documentarist while maintaining the same sparse engagement count simply wouldn't hold in terms of avoiding criticism for his work not matching his wage. While his work as a farmer wasn't public duty per se, he did serve as a type of DRF representative in Jylland. Symbolic value, sure, but going off of your own nickname for Marie, it clearly worked I don't think work as a documentarist holds the same public value.

However, if he had taken a pay cut to match his engagement count while living out his dream as a documentarist (and, as such, making his own money on the side), I honestly don't think the (institution the) DRF would've been opposed to it. Which leads me to believe the real issue was the apanage and an unwillingness to make changes to it which necessitated a solution that could warrant him maintaining the same apanage.

I think the solution for Isabella and future spares is pretty straightforward. The court has already established that only the heir is guaranteed an apanage (not, as the tabloids like to twist their words, that the heir is the only one who will receive apanage). That, to me, indicates that the spare will be paid for the work they perform for the DRF and not simply for being a member of the DRF. And I think that's a great solution. It'll allow the spare to get an education of their choice and potentially also an independent career while receiving adequate pay for the amount of work they perform as members of the DRF.

[Muhler]

Camelot23ca.

J&M brought up their misgivings before and after the stroke, so I don't think the stroke matters that much in this specific context.

You are quite right. Isabella will be a spare, whether it's part time or full time, she will have a role and a relatively high public profile.
But unless something happens to Isabella, she moves abroad or opts out of the DRF, I cannot see any role for Vincent and Isabella. They will have to find a career of their own.

In the glare of hindsight, it would have been better had Joachim, along with the rest of the DRF, started to rethink his entire role and royal status after having sold Schackenborg. And perhaps looked at options to either leave completely or in other ways lessen his role within the DRF.
However, I'm not sure that option was open at the time.
PH was still around and I don't think he would have looked with kind eyes on Joachim opting out.
Nor am I sure QMII would have understood why that should be a good idea.
And Frederik, he still had young children and I think he felt that he could use Joachim's support.

And even if the thought had occurred to any of them, I doubt any of them would have suggested any such thing. Not after Joachim gone through this public humiliation of selling Schackenborg.

Even if Joachim suggested it himself, I think the collective reaction from the rest of the family would have been: "Nonsense. Of course you have a role to fulfill. Of course we need you."

Another thing is that it wasn't a part of the bargain that Joachim should leave once he was no longer a de facto spare.
He had kept his part of the bargain. He had taken over a manor as he was told. He took the education he was told. He took on royal obligations while looking after Schackenborg, as was expected of him. - And keep in mind that for a number of years he and Alexandra acted as the CP-couple.
So I don't think the thought of him being sacked or declared redundant or having his apanage reduced, due to public pressure, was fair in his eyes.

So yes, things should have been done, things could have been done, things should have been explained and options should have been explored - but they weren't.
So, perhaps as a direct consequence of that, Joachim for a few years and for reasons we can only speculate about, didn't do that much and more importantly didn't reinvent himself and his role.

Joachim has been spared the big storm this time, mainly because people have had other things on their minds recently, Corona.
But that state of affairs will not continue.
So IMO the DRF might just as well start working out what Joachim's status and future should be.
Unless J&M decides to remain in France or move to another job say at the Defense Command or NATO HQ, they have 2½ year tops to work it out.

BTW. Once Joachim has finished his tour in Paris he is likely to be promoted to major general. And including pension, perks and an expense account, that amounts to roughly 35-45 % of Joachim's apanage (which is not taxed), before taxes.

[Susan D]

There may be an issue where Queen Margrethe grabs for herself too many of the decent royal duties. However, Prince Joachim was wrong to fail as a business man (in Hong Kong) and to then fail as a gentleman farmer. He seems to not apply himself. Junior royals all need to carve out careers for themselves. They don't have automatic jobs like the heads of state.

[Muhler]

Joachim wasn't a businessman while in Hong Kong. He was an intern. At Mærsk IIRC.

Perhaps it was more down to there simply being too many adult royals around for the number of jobs they had? Seven at the time.

In contrast to the BRF, the DRF members have never been here, there and everywhere. DK is simply too small for that to be practical with the aim being that a royal attendance should be something special.

As it is, perhaps it's realistic to realize that the DRF has work for two working couples and one or two occasional stand ins?

In the future that means: M&F, Christian (+ wife when he has one) and Isabella (increasingly doing a Benedikte). - With J&M and/or Vincent and Josephine only standing in when really needed. Mainly as Rigsforstander.

Originally Posted by polyesco

Evening at the theater for Joachim, Marie and the kids
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSci-n0A..._web_copy_link
Nice to see the family spending time in Denmark. Since Frederik is regent this week I assume the Queen might have gone to France.

And thank you Muhler and Zelia for the conversation regarding Joachim.
I do think Joachim and Marie did themselves no service by "complaining" and bringing up the topic multiple times in interviews. Now he doesnt want to follow up and that's unfair.

It's a funny play and an interesting choice, not least in view of the children and very much with cultural-historical theme. It's something the family can talk about afterwards.

The play is called Jean de France and was written by the satirist and play-writer Ludvig Holberg. He was very heavily influenced by Voltaire and his plays to this day are still very much current. So much so that a number of his plays and quotes from his plays are in common use today, and well-known today. Even though they were written 300 years ago.

This play is about a guy named Hans Frandsen, he goes to France. (Back then France was THE place to go. It was the cultural center of Europe and practically all European royals and nobles and anybody else who could went there as a part of their formative upbringing.)
At the same time DK was very provincial and remained so pretty much until around 1990 I'd say.
Anyway, he returns extremely pretentious. He has changed his name to Jean, he dress "French" behaves "French" and throw French expressions around while explaining how they in France do this and that. C'est Manifique!
Like in all of Ludvig Holberg's plays he ends up being cut down to size - but not before a number of people around the main character has been skewered as well.
People back then from high to low would know exactly what kind of type Jean de France was, and probably met several of them.
Hence why Ludvig Holberg's plays were and are so loved, they appealed to everyone and all classes.

What is funny is that when the DRF and their court went to the theater to watch Holberg's plays, there would be translations in German or French at hand, so they could keep up with what was said - because the plays were in Danish.

At the time there were many German-speakers in the Danish realm, as well as Norwegians.
The nobility spoke French or Latin among themselves.
The civil servant class spoke only German. They were notorious for flatly refusing to speak Danish.
If you were a reasonably well educated Dane living in Copenhagen, say a merchant, you spoke Danish and German as a matter of course. You may well have spoken French as well and you would know a good deal of Latin. And you would at the very least understand most of what was being said in Swedish and Norwegian.

Some may say that this play is too advanced for Athena and Henrik, but I don't think so at all. When I went to school we were taught about Holberg's plays at around 10-12 years old.