HM Queen Elizabeth II​ - Rest In Peace
The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #61  
Old 05-15-2021, 11:59 AM
lucien's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 7,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
The DRF does have a tendency not to deal with problems until they're standing square in the middle of them, I'll give Joachim that. (For example, the primogeniture was changed but they still haven't got a solution for the consequences of it. As it is right now, Isabella, who presumably will function as a spare, isn't able to pass on any titles while her younger brother and three male cousins, provided they're given permission to marry, all theoretically are allowed to pass on theirs. This could have been dealt with when they introduced the Monpezat titles but they were only made hereditary in the male line.)

But I will also say that Joachim and Marie had a good 5 years from moving to Copenhagen till he was admitted to the military course in France where they could've helped shape their own roles within the family. That could've been finding positions (not unlike Joachim's current role) that they actually wanted, stepping up their amount of duties, or reducing their allowance to mirror their relatively sparse amount of engagements. Given the media attention especially surrounding Alexandra's apanage, I think it would've been very naive to assume they could've just gone on "as usual" after the move to Copenhagen.

I maintain that privately saying no to either the course or the subsequent position would have been a much more respectful solution than accepting only to repeatedly do interviews leaving no doubt that they're in Paris against their will. No matter how you twist or turn it, that gives off the impression that they're complaining. Especially considering how he's actually immensely overpaid by receiving his apanage instead of the usual wage for his position.

He can work and have a job,doing something really worthwhile instead of messing things up over nothing,nada,Joachim,you´ve got to move your behind to create something worthwhile for yourself,so many worthwhile causes and highlights bringing in your position and benefitting to so many others.Your lack of creativity in this respect is appalling.But you´re growing into a grumpy silly old fart of a prince appears the rigeur..Shame on you,come on,get a move on!You owe it,you owe it to your mother and to Denmark.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 05-15-2021, 12:24 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 3,159
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucien View Post
You can not,in any which way,compare the Danish Royal Family to something as vulgar as an american company..You can´t.Next!

I didn’t. You can comply, and tolerate it, or you can refuse, and live with the consequences. And here I was concerned that I would injure the feelings of people living in Baton Rouge or Baltimore!

And I most assuredly was not comparing the DRF to any American company; I was comparing responses to the wishes of one’s employer when they differ from one’s own wishes. There is no BigCorp to my knowledge, vulgar or otherwise. At one time, however, IBM was said to stand for I’ve Been Moved.
__________________

__________________
"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will.”

Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 05-15-2021, 05:08 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 15,508
An analysis on BT based on J&M's misgivings and the future of the DRF:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/bts-royale-...idens-kongehus

The journalists basically says that this is the future of the DRF, short and sweet: https://bt.bmcdn.dk/media/cache/reso...nfirmation.jpg
No more, no less.
- I don't agree. I believe Isabella will have a role as well.

I disagree with the premises of the article that J&M are redundant and as such are being sidelined, and that that is predominantly being masterminded by Mary, who is becoming the de facto matriarch of the DRF. - And doing a good job, the journalists emphasize in this article and other articles and interviews I have noticed.
I disagree, because sidelining or outing J&M would be out of character of Mary to the extent of what I know of her. It would also mean that Frederik and QMII have no say. Frederik is no simpleton, and Joachim is after all his brother. And QMII may be old, but she is still sharp! I cannot see the two of them dumping J&M.
So I don't buy that theory.

I do however believe in the DRF undergoing a structural change, both in regards to more and more influence being transferred to M&F but also in the necessity of reducing the number of active royals, which includes M&F's children.
That may be a part of Joachim's misgivings? Perhaps he feels that he has no say in that process?

Anyway, that was just to give a brief overview, because the board rules cannot allow for a full translation, so I have only translated these excerpts:
25 guests "suits the DRF, the CP-couple have in mind for the future.
It has to be slimmed down.
Power is already centered around the the Crown Prince and the Crown Princess, even though Queen Margrethe is our Regent (here as another word for Monarch). Mary has over time established her position as the future matriarch of the DRF. She is the one in charge and she is doing it well. She's the one who comes up with the best quotes..."

The issue about J&M's interview was not addressed today, as it shouldn't be on such a day.

"... where they (J&M) once and for all makes it clear that their position within the DRF is "complicated" and that Joachim feels the same dissatisfaction as his father, Prince Henrik.
The interview with Prince Joachim and Princess Marie has thrown Denmark into a new debate about the future role of Prince Joachim within the DRF. Nothing suggests that he is a wanted asset anymore, but Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary will have to address the criticism by Prince Joachim.
Because Joachim feels he is let down..."

So far J&M will remain in Paris for the next three years, but at some point this issue needs to be addressed, writes the journalist.

"... Nothing indicates that Crown Princess Mary has a key-role in store for her brother-in-law. On the contrary. Saturday she presented her royal house on the stairs of Fredensborg Palace."

- Frederik, Mary and Christian.

----------

It's an interesting perspective, I think. Even though I don't agree on J&M being steamrolled, even by a "usurping" (albeit competent) Mary.
That's drama IMO.
I can however believe in thoughtlessness. I think most of us have been guilty in taking a decision before properly consulting those it affects. Perhaps that was what happened?
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 05-15-2021, 05:37 PM
Archduchess Zelia's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 3,163
Difficult to take that article serious at all when the journalist is trying to force a narrative that Mary is somehow in charge of the DRF. I think that type of narrative is demeaning to both QMII, Frederik and Mary herself. And I sincerely hope there's no correlation between the forcing of a such narrative and the fact that the author is the Danish journalist who is closest to J&M.

I also disagree that they're planning to slim down the monarchy. That makes sense in the case of the BRF that has an overwhelming amount of members, many of which . But the DRF currently has 14 members. 6 of those are children. 4 have, since the day Christian was born, not been expected to have an official role within the monarchy. The DRF is already a slimmed-down monarchy and there's no need for further slimming down as that will happen naturally.

As for the suggestion that... big-scale celebrations with international royals attending will end with QMII? I'd say that's just laughable – even very small monarchies such as the Norwegian one do the occasional pump and circumstance
__________________
"Hope is like the sun. If you only believe it when you see it you'll never make it through the night."
Our Princess

Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 05-15-2021, 05:44 PM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 7,184
How a French magazine Point de Vue interview , planned certainly before the Duke of Edinburgh passed away, may be A State Affaire in Denmark.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 05-16-2021, 06:55 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 14,110
With all the Prince Henrik drama, it's really laughable that J&M still give these kind of interviews. In life, you can't always get what you want, not even a royal, and, like the spare in UK, give conditions to the hand that feeds you.

After having failed in other fields, Joachim now is a career soldier and has to follow the rules of the job. They still are super privileged therefore I especially dislike the comments of Marie. Moaning about the fact that she had other plans, she should refrain from commenting on the CP family as they are beyond comparison. She should have learned that by now. Whatever their relations are, it is not Marie's position to indirectly cause some smoke when she knows that the public will believe that there could be fire.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 05-18-2021, 02:24 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: xxx, Finland
Posts: 1,098
BT popped over to Paris to meet the "frustrated" Joachim...

https://www.bt.dk/royale/bt-moeder-p...ikke-defineret

"I talked about the frustration I have because I am one of many (nr) two's in Europe. Our role in the royal houses is not defined, "Prince Joachim told B.T. "

But he hasn't been a nr 2 for 15 years now?...
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 05-18-2021, 02:35 PM
Blog Real's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 9,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
BT popped over to Paris to meet the "frustrated" Joachim...

https://www.bt.dk/royale/bt-moeder-p...ikke-defineret

"I talked about the frustration I have because I am one of many (nr) two's in Europe. Our role in the royal houses is not defined, "Prince Joachim told B.T. "

But he hasn't been a nr 2 for 15 years now?...
But isn't the job of number 2 helping the monarch and heir in the activities of the Royal House?
These statements by Prince Joachim remind me of his father, Prince Henrik, who never accepted his role at the Royal House.
I always thought that Prince Joachim was satisfied with his role at the Royal House.
__________________
My blogs about monarchies
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 05-18-2021, 02:35 PM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 15,508
I believe he referred to himself as spare.

Anyway, it's annoying that he doesn't elaborate.

I can understand he won't do it the middle of the street, but Joachim needs to explain exactly what his misgivings are, soon, otherwise it will lead to a lot of needless speculation.
And for Joachim to be compared to another spare, (we all know who!) who is currently babbling away and shooting himself in the foot on a daily basis.

Talk about it, get it out in the open, so we the public can debate and agree or disagree, but do talk about it!
The cat is out of the bag, and it won't go back.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 05-18-2021, 05:52 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san diego, United States
Posts: 9,960
I agree Muhler. Him and Marie in past interviews needed to be more clear. Is the job in Paris working out? If they were forced, who forced them? What are their plans? Hard decisions need to be made, but at this stage in their lives they need to take on personal responsibility.

What I did find interesting in the article is this part. Distancing himself from calling Harry's decision brave?

"But he would like to emphasize that the interview with Point de Vue was made before Oprah Winfrey's interview with Prince Harry, which aired on 7 March.*Thus, Prince Joachim reveals that the interview with him and Princess Marie is several months back.
This is important because Prince Joachim calls Prince Harry "brave" and says he has great respect for him.*Now those quotes must be seen in the light of the fact that Prince Joachim at the time did not know about the interview, where the duke couple of Sussex to that extent criticize the British royal house."
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 05-19-2021, 06:04 AM
maria-olivia's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 7,184
It is what I wrote . Point de Vue had to Post Prince Philip Duke of Edinburg passing away, his funerals etc... and then printed the interview of Joachim and Marie who was several weeks ago!
Prince Joachim should not answer the question about Prince Harry !
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 05-19-2021, 06:08 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 5,248
Have replied to the post on title inheritance here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2399314
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 05-19-2021, 09:24 PM
Alisa's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 3,426
To me it sounds like the job in Paris and the move is not working out or they feel they not being treated fairly.
__________________
Those who plot the destruction of others often perish in the attempt. ---Phaedrus
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 05-29-2021, 03:27 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kopenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 133
Really really sad, but still I think Joachim simply did not make his way in so many ways and now blames his royal roots for it.
Who asked or told him to become a farmer, start a military training, rush into his first marriage, divorce, ruin his farm.......
Time to reflect, take responsibilities and make one's living!

As a Dane it's nothing new to hear him complaining, did Harry encourage him and why now distance from calling him "brave"? At least some of Harry's accusations are clear and addressed (not saying it is fair) , Joachim&Mary's complaints are indiscriminately which makes it difficult to understand.
What I saw at the Henrik's funeral Marie looked deeply moved and maybe J&M situation got worse after H had passed. But telling it now, years after and comparing to him, even generalising to other spares ? Wooh- another prince starting to go wild, a couple wanting to change a royal court? Let's hope he won't harm his brother's reputation once his reign starts. I think respect for his mother might stop him from more at the moment.

Strictly speaking, since Nikolai's birth back in 1999, Joachim was free to do whatever he wanted, he could have abdicated and leave the reign to his firstborn after his brothers reign IF Frederick had had no children and he himself had other plans.
So why complain now, it's been almost 22 years, 15 since his nephew was born.

The problem is Joachim seems to have had no plans and still hasn't.
And unfortunately his wife is no help, wonder if J. has got close friends, one to get him down to earth would help.
I thought he is simply unlucky like some of us making wrong decisions,
but the more he complains the more he looks ungrateful bitter guy and this is certainly nothing the danish court needs in the future.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 05-29-2021, 03:39 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 8,029
It was pointed out that Joachim's comments were made ahead of Meghan (and Harry)'s interview with Oprah, so he was reflecting on Harry stepping back in 2020 not on their accusations over het last few months.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 05-29-2021, 03:48 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kopenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
It was pointed out that Joachim's comments were made ahead of Meghan (and Harry)'s interview with Oprah, so he was reflecting on Harry stepping back in 2020 not on their accusations over het last few months.
I am aware of this ;-) does not change what I posted
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 05-30-2021, 02:18 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 14,110
Stepping back is one thing, others continuing to foot the bill for one's lifestyle is another. Maybe Joachim is angry that now he actually has to work for a living and his army job is as demanding for him as it would be for everybody else. There are jobs and there are jobs, maybe he got one of the jobs who are usually reserved for the non royal working class.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 05-30-2021, 05:27 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kopenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Stepping back is one thing, others continuing to foot the bill for one's lifestyle is another. Maybe Joachim is angry that now he actually has to work for a living and his army job is as demanding for him as it would be for everybody else. There are jobs and there are jobs, maybe he got one of the jobs who are usually reserved for the non royal working class.
Yes, though his "wages" should make him more humble.
What I really don't understand is why they do not enjoy Paris,
Marie is french, Joachim is halffrench, they have this castle in the south,
both have family in France. Is it so hard to live there?
His anger,bitterness or jealousy must be at a high level,
sorry for the children.
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 05-30-2021, 07:30 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 14,110
I think the ordinary and private life that many royals desire is not so enjoyable once they learn the downsides that most of us experience every day. You have to organize yourself and take a look at your bank account on a regular basis.

Yes, J&M will have a privileged life but it is probably a far cry from the privileges that go along a royal life in Denmark. They will have and use special connections there that are not around in France and they are probably not surrounded by the 'yes men' in the background, who do and arrange everything without questioning or asking for money.

But the deeper motivation for their bitterness and jealousy is probably deeply rooted in the same shortcomings like Henrik, who even at the age of 80 had not understood the principle of a consort and instead of being more relaxed about it, it actually became worse with age. There is no fool than an old fool.
Now with Joachim getting older, it might even bother him more to be cast aside, not only his position as spare but also physically, moving him to France.
And then he does not have a wife who tells him to get a grip and move on but keeps nagging at this weakness and nurturing his need for entitlement. I guess we have Henrik 2.0 in the making.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 05-30-2021, 08:42 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Kopenhagen, Denmark
Posts: 133
"I guess we have Henrik 2.0 in the making."

Maybe even worse, as he can do a lot of damage to his brothers reign.
This move to France, if not chosen from the couple, seems to be a sort of damage control
for what is to come. Now they are off the stage, less damage expected. as simple as that.

My aunt who is very much into these affairs always said Joachim is a copy of Henrik,
his first wife picked from Hongkong (which Henrik knew well)
second wife french... and many more details, some I did not know.
The way he brings up his fathers sorrows, years after he passed could be a late piece of mourning process aswell as means of choice to attract both more attention or sort if self-justification whatever it comes a bit weird.
And yes, unfortunately Marie supports him instead of kicking him ....

It'll be interesting to see what Joachim's children choose to do with their future.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 5: September 2019 - December 2020 iceflower Current Events Archive 456 12-31-2020 04:00 PM
General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 4: July 2014 - August 2019 iceflower Current Events Archive 477 09-01-2019 02:59 PM
General News about Joachim, Marie and Family 3: January 2011 - July 2014 dazzling Current Events Archive 433 07-17-2014 02:12 AM
General News about Joachim, Marie and Family 2: August 2009 - January 2011 dazzling Current Events Archive 401 01-08-2011 12:25 AM




Popular Tags
#uae #abudhabirullingfamily 18th birthday abdullah ii africa albert prince consort all tags arcadie claret braganza british royal family cadwallader camilla caribbean charles charles iii claret congo current events danish royal family death de la cerda denmark duarte pio dubai expo duchess of kent duke of cambridge elizabeth ii garsenda genealogy guzman history identifying india ingrid-alexandra introduction ivrea jordan royal family king charles king henry iii king philippe king willem-alexander leopold ier maria ii matrilineal monarchy mountbatten need help noble families official visit order of precedence orleans-braganza pedro ii portugal prince andrew prince charles prince of wales prince of wales in jordan queen camilla queen elizabeth queen margrethe ii queen mathilde queen maxima queen victoria republics restoration samurai state visit tokugawa uae visit wine glass


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:41 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2022
Jelsoft Enterprises
×