General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 6: January 2021 - December 2023

[Alisa]

First it was a done deal that Joachim was excited about a move to the US, then Marie backtracked and called such a move "rumors", and now it's official they are moving to the US after all. Phew...

They really should consider not talking to the press at all until they have all their ducks lined up in a row.

From the sound of things the job in France seemed alot more prestigious than the one here in DC.
They're in for a rude awakening as life here in America is vastly different than life in Paris.
It will not surprise me if this move is short-lived.

 

[Prinsara]

Come on. Do you need to call him Prince of Arrogance?

It's not serious and any arguments you present are as such instantly dismissed as deeply biased.

-------------

The editor in chief of very serious defense media Olfi, Peter Ernstved, does not consider this a promotion for Joachim. He claims that Joachim will get a lot less responsibility and influence compared to the French posting.

Now, I have a lot of respect for Peter Ernstved, his expertise and assessments, so that's a noteworthy perspective I will keep in mind.

I will assume that Joachim now needs to build up contact and knowledge in USA. Being fluent in French and having completed the most prestigious staff-course in France will no doubt have opened a lot of doors to Joachim in France. But in USA he will have to open the doors himself, so I suppose he may be an apprentice so to speak first, before moving up. In which case J&M are probably destined to stay in USA for at least five years.
Anyway, they won't send a man who is incompetent to USA and certainly not now.

Well, whether Joachim does something he does not want to do, like go to France; does something he enthusiastically wants to do, like go to the US, or is imaginarily involved in getting his children's titles taken away; he is apparently entitled, arrogant, and useless, regardless.

At least in the eyes of his heckling section. (Some people can't win.)

I wonder if Jokke will have to be seconded to the Embassy in Ottawa from time to time to do the Canadian portion of his job? How many consulates does DK have here, anyway?

 

[Mbruno]

The Danish version of the announcement:

https://www.kongehuset.dk/nyheder/d-k-h-prins-joachim-og-prinsesse-marie-flytter-til-washington-d-c


From the prince's interview last November:



Are we to understand that the authorities approved what he "knew he wanted"? It is interesting that he is now much more enthusiastic about the overseas role in comparison to his and his wife's interviews several years ago.

Personally I can't see the advantages of being posted to Washington D.C. over Paris. France was also more convenient in terms of being much closer to Denmark. Besides, from what I understand, Prince Joachim has been appointed to a lower-ranked position in the United States than the one he held in France.

So, why is Joachim excited about his new job while he was lukewarm about his previous posting?

 

[Sionevar]

I wonder if Jokke will have to be seconded to the Embassy in Ottawa from time to time to do the Canadian portion of his job? How many consulates does DK have here, anyway?

Denmark has an embassy in Ottawa, a Trade Council in Toronto and eight honorary or royal consulates around the country, in Calgary, Edmonton, Halifax, Iqaluit, Montreal, St. John's, Toronto, Vancouver and Winnipeg.

https://canada.um.dk/en/about-us/danish-consulates-in-canada

I expect he would mostly be working with the embassy and the Trade Council.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Personally I can't see the advantages of being posted to Washington D.C. over Paris. France was also more convenient in terms of being much closer to Denmark. Besides, from what I understand, Prince Joachim has been appointed to a lower-ranked position in the United States than the one he held in France.

So, why is Joachim excited about his new job while he was lukewarm about his previous posting?

The most apparent and probably the likeliest explanation, reading that earlier interview posted by polyesco, is that he now has years of successful performance in the defense attaché job behind him, takes pride in what he has accomplished and is eager to build on those accomplishments.

But I wonder if the recent improvements in communication between the prince and the queen, which both have made allusions to, could be another factor. Perhaps his mother has told him that the overseas postings were not meant as an exile but an opportunity to make fuller use of his talents as a working royal compared to a secondary role next to the Crown Prince Couple in Copenhagen, or something in that vein.

 

[Muhler]

Thanks for your insights, Muhler but I am fascinated that the Canadian portion of HRH Prince Joachim new assignment is not included in your writing. La belle province de Québec is home to the largest French speaking city outside France and I believe Montréal is also where the prince spent his honeymoon with Princesse Marie! I think the Prince will do well in North America and I will watch closely to see what he achieves here.

Well, I'm sure we already have a military attache in Canada, Canada being a major NATO country - not least because DK and Canada now also share a land-border.
But mostly because our two countries have mutual interests in the Arctic and cooperate there as well. Our countries are also very similar in regards to equipment (the Leopard MBT being the most obvious) but also in regards to how and when and with what mandate DK and Canadian forces are deployed.

I don't know whether Joachim will cover the Canadian defense industry or whether that is already covered. I have to plead ignorance.
DK like Canada develop, produce and deliver a lot of sub-components for weapons and equipment.

I guess Joachim will go to Canada from time to time, but whether that will be as a part of his new job or whether he will do so as Prince Joachim, that remains to be seen, I suppose.
The Arctic, Greenland and Canada is, at least at present, more an area to be covered by Frederik due to his deep personal knowledge of the Arctic, his personal political contacts and close affiliation with Greenland.

Now for Quebec, and here I'm in the deep end. I'm led to believe that the Quebec dialect is considerably different from metropolitan French and Quebec is in Canada, not France, so I don't know how close the cultural relations are either.
So in that light, is J&M's French background that big an advantage in Quebec?
- These are questions you undoubtedly can answer much better than me. ?

 

[Prinsara]

Well, I'm sure we already have a military attache in Canada, Canada being a major NATO country - not least because DK and Canada now also share a land-border.
But mostly because our two countries have mutual interests in the Arctic and cooperate there as well. Our countries are also very similar in regards to equipment (the Leopard MBT being the most obvious) but also in regards to how and when and with what mandate DK and Canadian forces are deployed.

I don't know whether Joachim will cover the Canadian defense industry or whether that is already covered. I have to plead ignorance.
DK like Canada develop, produce and deliver a lot of sub-components for weapons and equipment.

I guess Joachim will go to Canada from time to time, but whether that will be as a part of his new job or whether he will do so as Prince Joachim, that remains to be seen, I suppose.
The Arctic, Greenland and Canada is, at least at present, more an area to be covered by Frederik due to his deep personal knowledge of the Arctic, his personal political contacts and close affiliation with Greenland.

Now for Quebec, and here I'm in the deep end. I'm led to believe that the Quebec dialect is considerably different from metropolitan French and Quebec is in Canada, not France, so I don't know how close the cultural relations are either.
So in that light, is J&M's French background that big an advantage in Quebec?
- These are questions you undoubtedly can answer much better than me. ?

in the coming years will help strengthen the defense industry cooperation with the USA and Canada.

So whether there is an attaché in Canada or not, it seems it comes under Joachim's portfolio.

A big chunk of the defense sector is in Quebec, afaik.

European French and Quebecois are still mutually comprehensible, and fluent French speakers of whatever variety undoubtedly have an advantage working there. Jokke and family will be seen as somewhat snooty, no doubt, but hey, they're already royalty. I so very much hope Jokke manages to pick up some sacrés while he is there.

 

[Muhler]

So whether there is an attaché in Canada or not, it seems it comes under Joachim's portfolio.

A big chunk of the defense sector is in Quebec, afaik.

European French and Quebecois are still mutually comprehensible, and fluent French speakers of whatever variety undoubtedly have an advantage working there. Jokke and family will be seen as somewhat snooty, no doubt, but hey, they're already royalty. I so very much hope Jokke manages to pick up some sacrés while he is there.

Thanks, you saved me a good deal of reading up.

 

[Prinsara]

Thanks, you saved me a good deal of reading up.

Edit: "24% of the 28,000 direct jobs in the Canadian defence industry are based in Québec" https://sdquebec.ca/en/content/sectors-and-market-segments

 

[tommy100]

While I can see why some people are thinking its bad Daisy seemingly organised this for him I also think it is pretty clear Daisy organised the French posting to get him out the country because she wanted him out of Denmark. If that is the case I don't blame Joachim for pushing for a good deal for himself and his family.

 

[polyesco]

I don't think she wanted him out of the country but more for him to be working on something meaningful. His work agenda, and Marie's, especially after moving to Copenhagen were not overwhelming.
Joachim has a great love for the military/defense (even mentioned by Nikolai), he has the expertise/training, seems like a good fit.

 

[Adda]

Going to school in Washington DC will be wonderful for Henrik and Athena, they are already becoming citizens of the world (hopefully, without forgetting about Denmark). But Joachim will be half the world away from the two eldest, and from his aging mother, which might as well be what he wants.

Good luck to them.

 

[Kataryn]

The editor in chief of very serious defense media Olfi, Peter Ernstved, does not consider this a promotion for Joachim. He claims that Joachim will get a lot less responsibility and influence compared to the French posting.

Now, I have a lot of respect for Peter Ernstved, his expertise and assessments, so that's a noteworthy perspective I will keep in mind.

.

Maybe Joachim doesn't care for such things (aka "The career") but wants to bring himself out of the Line on the shooting range because his Mother's blunder.


He is definately no prince Harry and I think the alleged parallels have hurt him. It's typical Danish humour (AfaI understand it) that he now ends up in the US. Well, he could teach Harry a thing about being the spare and still love the souvereign and his brother. Even though his children have lost their princely titles (with his daughter losing it altogether at her marriage) while the Sussex-Children have gained them in public!


Or maybe he wants to do a "Harry".... We'll find out. But I don't see our Marie "connect" to the media just like the Duchess of Sussex.

 

[Sionevar]

Can anyone here speak to the reception Joachim and Marie are likely to receive in DC? Being the capital, it's obviously going to be full of important people with lots of money, connections and social clout. Will the DC elite welcome a prince and princess? Or will they be sniffy about it, and make Joachim and Marie earn their entrance to all the best things?

I would think the former, but I freely admit, I have zero knowledge of DC's elite social scene

I hope this will be a good thing for them. That, whatever the reason for the posting, they can make the most of it to establish their own successful, prosperous path.

 

[Prinsara]

Can anyone here speak to the reception Joachim and Marie are likely to receive in DC? Being the capital, it's obviously going to be full of important people with lots of money, connections and social clout. Will the DC elite welcome a prince and princess? Or will they be sniffy about it, and make Joachim and Marie earn their entrance to all the best things?

I would think the former, but I freely admit, I have zero knowledge of DC's elite social scene

I hope this will be a good thing for them. That, whatever the reason for the posting, they can make the most of it to establish their own successful, prosperous path.

Yes, I think a Prince and a Princess (working royals of an active monarchy no less) will have no problem getting invited to DC gatherings (I wouldn't be surprised if there's a call from Amalienborg to get him to stop by the White House at some point...), but it's whether they're good and interesting guests that will determine whether they keep getting invited.

I still really wonder what Joachim is going to make of living in the US. Europe culturally, DC is not. Although perhaps a more anonymous atmosphere and more wide-ranging work will be welcomed.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The defense ministry press release linked from the Royal House website includes the detail that the posting is for a three-year, extendable term.

https://www.fmn.dk/da/nyheder/2023/...fortradende-forsvarsattache-i-washington-d.c/

 

[Muhler]

The defense ministry press release linked from the Royal House website includes the detail that the posting is for a three-year, extendable term.

https://www.fmn.dk/da/nyheder/2023/...fortradende-forsvarsattache-i-washington-d.c/

Illuminating.

https://www.fmn.dk/globalassets/fmn/dokumenter/-oversigt-forat-og-landeansvarlige-02-2023-.pdf

I see Joachim will join a team of four in Washington unless he is replacing one of them.
I also notice that the military attache who is already there, is a rear admiral, so outranking Joachim by one rank. However, I think it's very likely that Joachim will be promoted to major general either just before going to USA or if and when he replace the current military attache.
- At the same time I suspect Frederik will be promoted to lieutenant general. (Three stars.) He hasn't been promoted since 2015, so it's time.

 

[kalnel]

Can anyone here speak to the reception Joachim and Marie are likely to receive in DC? Being the capital, it's obviously going to be full of important people with lots of money, connections and social clout. Will the DC elite welcome a prince and princess? Or will they be sniffy about it, and make Joachim and Marie earn their entrance to all the best things?

I would think the former, but I freely admit, I have zero knowledge of DC's elite social scene

I hope this will be a good thing for them. That, whatever the reason for the posting, they can make the most of it to establish their own successful, prosperous path.

Native Washingtonian here. I'm sure people will include them at all the right events -- the embassy will make sure of that. And, there are socialites who would be thrilled to have a prince at a dinner party or function, and I imagine those people are already looking for ways to connect with them.

But they won't attract any attention from the locals or the media. (Maybe that's why they want to be here.)

Many royals have been based here over the years, and they don't get any attention, except for an occasional picture in a glossy magazine about a fundraiser or some formal event, if they're involved in that kind of social life. Otherwise, they're anonymous.

Plus, I imagine Joachim will be doing a lot of schmoozing with defense contracting companies and government officials, so his calendar will be full.

 

[BriarRose]

Can anyone here speak to the reception Joachim and Marie are likely to receive in DC? Being the capital, it's obviously going to be full of important people with lots of money, connections and social clout. Will the DC elite welcome a prince and princess? Or will they be sniffy about it, and make Joachim and Marie earn their entrance to all the best things?

I would think the former, but I freely admit, I have zero knowledge of DC's elite social scene

I hope this will be a good thing for them. That, whatever the reason for the posting, they can make the most of it to establish their own successful, prosperous path.

DC is a diplomatic melting pot, and I don't think their titles will hurt them in any way socially - they will help more than hinder. They will likely be socializing in military, diplomatic, and expat circles, and their children will rub shoulders with other politicians' and diplomats' children at school. Joachim can allegedly be snooty and formal, which would hurt him in other more laid-back areas of the country, but I don't think it will be such an issue in DC. I have a feeling, for some reason, that Marie will love DC, and will become quite popular there.

I am curious as to where they will send the kids, as I have friends and family in the area. There are plenty of elite private schools to choose from, but if they choose Georgetown Day, I may have to visit my godson more often.

 

[kalnel]

General News about Joachim, Marie and Family Part 6: January 2021 -

With respect to the kids’ schools, a lot will depend on where they live.

The Pentagon and the big defense contractors are in Northern Virginia, so living there would make sense. That might lead them to the co-ed Potomac School in McLean, Virginia.

The Danish embassy is in Northwest Washington, just off Embassy Row. It is very close to the National Cathedral, which has an elementary school (Beauvoir), a girls’ high school (National Cathedral School), and a boys’ high school (St. Albans) on its grounds. All excellent schools. Queen Noor went to NCS, and some of the Jordanian princes went to St. Albans.

The embassy is also fairly close to the Sidwell Friends upper school, where Chelsea Clinton and the Nixon and Obama girls attended. But, Sidwell’s lower school is about half an hour away in Bethesda, Maryland. (It’s only about 5 miles away, but with traffic, it’s a hike in rush hour.)

When Princess Cristina and her family moved here, her kids went to the French International School, which is also in Bethesda. Bethesda has several other very prestigious schools that could be likely spots for the kids.

But, anything is possible. I’m sure the kids will have drivers running them around — there’s no way Joachim and Marie will be sitting in traffic for hours a day on the school run.

BTW, I’m not convinced Marie is going to do well here. Unless she gets a job, she’ll be bored and get little attention. After Paris, where she had friends and family, Washington may not be too exciting.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Is this a job cut out for Joachim to still let him keep his allowance?
It feels to me that Joachims family is to be kept out of the country, but they want to keep him in the fold by being paid by the Danish State instead of allowing him a well paid private job in the military industry. Or wouldn't he be qualified for such a job?
I don't think Joachim would do a Prince Harry and spill the secrets but it's safer to keep him on the State payroll instead of private industry.

 

[Prinsara]

Is this a job cut out for Joachim to still let him keep his allowance?
It feels to me that Joachims family is to be kept out of the country, but they want to keep him in the fold by being paid by the Danish State instead of allowing him a well paid private job in the military industry. Or wouldn't he be qualified for such a job?
I don't think Joachim would do a Prince Harry and spill the secrets but it's safer to keep him on the State payroll instead of private industry.

Only if you believe that Joachim is a 'gray sheep' being shuffled out of Europe to keep him away from his mother and brother.

If you believe that he's proud of being a Prince to Denmark and wants to keep serving in that role and has served with the military for several years now and, as Muhler said, there's no way they would send someone unqualified to do this kind of work, especially not now...then it makes sense.

Not sure which part of his family is considered particularly threatening, especially when Nikolai and Felix (and Alex too) are not going anywhere.

And the secrets you're insinuating Joachim might spill would be espionage, and that's undignified.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Only if you believe that Joachim is a 'gray sheep' being shuffled out of Europe to keep him away from his mother and brother.

If you believe that he's proud of being a Prince to Denmark and wants to keep serving in that role and has served with the military for several years now and, as Muhler said, there's no way they would send someone unqualified to do this kind of work, especially not now...then it makes sense.

Not sure which part of his family is considered particularly threatening, especially when Nikolai and Felix (and Alex too) are not going anywhere.

And the secrets you're insinuating Joachim might spill would be espionage, and that's undignified.

Well, Joachim's own wife confirmed more or less that they were moved to France against their wishes so I don't think this is too far fetched.

 

[Prinsara]

Well, Joachim's own wife confirmed more or less that they were moved to France against their wishes so I don't think this is too far fetched.

And ignoring Joachim's enthusiastic quotes in the press about wanting to take this position isn't?

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

maybe both of them learned to be enthusiastic about what the hand that feeds them has to offer, at least in public.

 

[kalnel]

This definitely *could* be a move to push Joachim out of sight/out of mind. Don't forget, the last Danish royal sent to the embassy in Washington was Princess Elisabeth. She was another HRH that they never really found a use for.

But, of course, she was the granddaughter of a king, not the son of a queen.

Unless they intend to let Joachim play in the political sandbox -- doing some lobbying and policy work -- his job will either be military coordination or superficial meeting and greeting. (Or "grip and grin" as they call it here.)

I envision a lot of "Denmark sure would like a favorable deal on these munitions. By the way, have you met our Queen's son the Prince? He's here to tell you about it! Shake the nice general's hand, Prince Joachim."

 

[Prinsara]

maybe both of them learned to be enthusiastic about what the hand that feeds them has to offer, at least in public.

Or Joachim is actually enthusiastic about moving on up to go work with some of the world's biggest and most advanced defense contractors and the Pentagon.

I just find it astounding that whatever he does (except for having a life-threatening stroke. Recovering from it meant business as usual), at least 60/40 of the reaction will be negative, even when they're all contradictory.
- "they're being forced"
- "he's totally unqualified"
- "he's completely entitled"
- "he forced this out of the Queen"
- "oh and he's probably dangerous and could be a loose cannon like Harry or a spy"

Maybe he's also tired of being the whipping boy.

(And this isn't just my opinion, or this board. I'm pretty sure Nikolai already expressed the same sentiment.)

 

[kalnel]

Defense contractors are global these days, so being in Washington wouldn't necessarily give him more access. He might be coordinating with the Pentagon, but on tactical stuff, I would think he'd be more likely to be at a NATO base somewhere.

Military attaches are a dime a dozen, so this job may not be as prestigious as one might think.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Or Joachim is actually enthusiastic about moving on up to go work with some of the world's biggest and most advanced defense contractors and the Pentagon.

I just find it astounding that whatever he does (except for having a life-threatening stroke. Recovering from it meant business as usual), at least 60/40 of the reaction will be negative, even when they're all contradictory.
- "they're being forced"
- "he's totally unqualified"
- "he's completely entitled"
- "he forced this out of the Queen"
- "oh and he's probably dangerous and could be a loose cannon like Harry or a spy"

Maybe he's also tired of being the whipping boy.

(And this isn't just my opinion, or this board. I'm pretty sure Nikolai already expressed the same sentiment.)

Not all is contradictory.
Marie confirmed that they were being forced (to Paris) and who else could have forced them other than the Queen.
It's not that I present the most absurd theory here.
And by the way, what is 'the board opinion'?

 

[maria-olivia]

We know only the top of the Iceberg !