What is your opinion of Frederik and Mary

[Jamerican]

Originally Posted by Hotdog

I think the hurry to get the Australian tour was due to:

1. Striking while the iron was still hot.
There was a huge amount of publicity in Australia about their wedding so it was part "thanks for the attention and favourable press" and partly to do it before the public and media lost interest.

After all Royal families are just one big PR business for their nation aren't they if they no longer have any real power?

Good point.

something tells me, though, that the 'iron' in Australia isn't going to cool down any time soon.

I always find it interesting when people say that they can't like or dislike a (public) person as they don't know them, or that public people should be allowed to get on with their lives. I think it goes without saying that most of us don't know any royal personages, and willl probably never meet them. I also take if for granted that most public people have a private life that we never see. Unfortunately, Most European monarchs are not like politicians, who can be evaluated on their policies, or celebrities who can be measured on their talent (or lack thereof). Instead, they are evaluated on their qualities as people-what we perceive to be their good point and bad points, and any missteps they may have made. Margarethe is not considered a good queen because she has cut taxes, or won an academy award. Why is she considered a good queen? because she comes off as an intelligent, talented, and regal yet down to earth person with a lot of charisma. These are personal traits, are they not?

[ysbel]

I think the Danish Royal Family agreed to the interviews and the photoshoots because they are naturally a more open monarchy than other royal families and they give interviews rather frequently.

I think they were taken offguard by the Australian media which tends to be more aggressive than the Danish media. The Queen was definitely taken offguard with the hordes of press crowding around her when she visited the Lilleprinsen right after his birth. Also, the Austalian press seems a lot like the American press in my country. Our press likes to build someone up just to tear them down. Giving interviews in this kind of environment is a little like walking a minefield.

I don't think the DRF or Mary could have known beforehand what they were dealing with the Australian press so its understandable that they went ahead with the interviews and photoshoots but its equally understandable that Mary has now pulled back on giving interviews. Once burned you're hardly liable to make the same mistakes again. I also think she and Fred will hold off re-visiting Australia for awhile.

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by Hotdog

I think the hurry to get the Australian tour was due to:

1. Striking while the iron was still hot.
There was a huge amount of publicity in Australia about their wedding so it was part "thanks for the attention and favourable press" and partly to do it before the public and media lost interest.

But royalty shouldn't -- and isn't -- about "striking while the iron is hot." Royalty has lasted for centuries over the years because it is about neutral/unbiased heads of state (rather than politicians who come and go) fostering good international and diplomatic relationships.

The relationship between Denmark and Australia doesn't hinge or isn't based on the fact that Denmark's Crown Princess was born and raised in Australia. It is about the relationship that Queen Margrethe, her father and mother, and all their predecessors who have travelled back and forth.

As for the tour being a "thanks for the favourable press," other brides from other countries who have married into royal families did not do a "thanks to the media" tour following coverage of their engagement or wedding. In the immediate months after her February 2002 wedding Maxima did not embark on a "thank you" tour of Agentina.

Furthermore, I don't think the Danish royal family should be overly concerned (if at all) about the lost of interest by the Australian media over Mary and Frederik. They are the royal family of Denmark not Australia.

Originally Posted by Hotdog

2. To get it over with before she started pumping out kids.

Hotdog

This is a rather insensitive statement -- Mary is a human being, not a baby machine. Her one big role may be to produce an heir, but she is still a person with feelings and goals and is capable of much more than just "pumping out kids."

But even if you buy into this theory, there is no reason why Mary and Frederik could not have embarked on an Australian tour between "pumping out kids." All of the crown princesses have gone on trips abroad after having children. Mathilde has been to India while Elisabeth and Gabriel stayed home with her parents; Maxima has been to South America most recently, having taken both of her daughters with her but also went to Morocco with her husband leaving Alexia who was only four months or so at home; Mette-Marit went to Mawaii leaving Ingrid Alexandra and Marius at home.

[Jamerican]

Originally Posted by Alexandria

But royalty shouldn't -- and isn't -- about "striking while the iron is hot." Royalty has lasted for centuries over the years because it is about neutral/unbiased heads of state (rather than politicians who come and go) fostering good international and diplomatic relationships.

exactly.

As for the tour being a "thanks for the favourable press," other brides from other countries who have married into royal families did not do a "thanks to the media" tour following coverage of their engagement or wedding. In the immediate months after her February 2002 wedding Maxima did not embark on a "thank you" tour of Agentina....
But even if you buy into this theory, there is no reason why Mary and Frederik could not have embarked on an Australian tour between "pumping out kids." All of the crown princesses have gone on trips abroad after having children. Mathilde has been to India while Elisabeth and Gabriel stayed home with her parents; .

That is what i think as well. Now, this may be an unfair comparison, but let's look at Maxima. Maxima has travelled privately to Argentina many times since her marriage. Yet, her first official visit was for a short duration, and to promote microcredit. Now, I feel my comment is partially unfair, as it is easier to do charitable work in a place like Argentina, which is not the most economically stable place in the world. Also, considering her fathers role in Argentinian politics, some in the Netherlands and in Argentina would have found a large scale 'fancy dress' tour in poor taste. However, if Maxima and the DRF had agreed to embark on such a tour of Argentina, (and if they had been invited to do so) I think that at least the Argentinian elite would have flung open their doors for her, considering that she was a member of that same elite. (or perhaps, that is partially the point- Maxima comes from the upper echelons of her country, so therefore had nothing to prove. I'm speculating here, but it is an interesting theory, isn't it?)

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by Jamerican

I just want to start off by saying this is a great board, and I hope to post often.

I'm a little torn regarding Mary. I'll start off with the things I think are cool.
she dresses well (for the most part), and I admire her ability to take on a role that I think, for all it's glamour, can be quite difficult at times.

However, I didn't much care for the numerous interviews and photoshoots she did. For one thing, at times she did not come off as sincere or particularly intelligent, which may not be the case in real life.

It has been said that for modern royalty to survive, it has to strike a balance between staying true to the past and adapting to the future. It has also been said as well that 'we cannot let daylight upon magic.' Photoshoots for fashion magazines, for me, smacks of celebrity, and I don't think that is what royalty should be about. You can promote fashion and your country without posing for Vogue. Diana single-handedly revitalized the British fashion industry, and she did not pose for her first official fashion cover until what, 1995?

I also thought that she and the palace agreed to such a lengthy tour of Australia too soon after being Crown Princess. I personally would have counseled her to wait a bit. What was the hurry?

I guess the past is the past, so we can't hold those things against her.. I'm just glad she isn't doing any more interviews.

Welcome Jamerican.

You have made some interesting points. Thanks for posting.

What it comes down to, in my opinion, is relatability. Some can connect with Mary while others can relate to Maxima, Letiza, Mette-Marit, and so forth.

I'm in the middle as far as Mary is concerned. There are times when she seems sincerely involved with her work and her personality shines. Other times she seems aloof and a tad arrogant according to my observations of her on t.v.

I'm not against Mary nor am I a fantic. Like I said, I'm in the middle.

[laduchesse]

Overall, I like CP Mary and think she has been doing well in her role. She's accomplished a lot in a short period of time; however, I do agree with some of the criticism that has arisen.

I do agree with those that feel she shouldn't have posed in magazines. Giving interviews relating to a specific cause or that provide an opportunity to promote Denmark, etc. are fine, but posing in fashion magazines where more emphasis is on what she's wearing (as opposed to her speaking or promoting fashion designers from her country) creates the wrong perception about royalty, in my opinion. When I saw the Vogue pictures, it seemed like she was trying to be a model, not a CP.

I can't imagine the pressure one would feel always being accompanied by photographers and I suspect it might be hard to ignore the cameras, but I do feel sometimes it looks like CP Mary is posing (and I don't mean in formal pics), sometimes in a way that comes across as aloof or arrogant. Please accept my apologies if I didn't express myself all that well - I don't intend it to be a personal shot because I don't know Mary. I can't imagine always being genuinely happy with a camera in my face, but then again I don't have a public function where details like that are scrutinized more.

CP Mary is CP of Denmark, not Australia. I think it will be very important to find a balance between official and personal trips to Australia. I think future trips should be more low-key and I think that the DRF should be conscientious not to step on the British Royal Family's role in Australia.

[Hotdog]

Alexandria

While I meant no offence by the tern "pumping out kids" I still think she would need to be conscious of the very long journey to Australia if pregnant or carting very young babies. Both Mary and Frederik have indicated that they wanted a large family.

There is limited time left before the fertility really starts dropping so getting the a tour over quickly was probably the best option.

It was really the Australian media and politicians that pressured the DRF to keep expanding the tour.
Okay they could have said no but if the host nation was asking for more of their time then maybe it was in the DRF's interest to reciprocate and create "goodwill" and interest in Denmark.

[Margrethe II]

Originally Posted by laduchesse

I think future trips should be more low-key and I think that the DRF should be conscientious not to step on the British Royal Family's role in Australia

.lol. I don't really think Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth is worried about the media attention the Danish royal family has recieved these past two years...

Her Majesty knows who she is and Her Majesty the Queen Margrethe knows who she (herself) is and that is that.

Interesting statement. I may be a monarchist but I often find myself asking this question.."what is the royal family's role in Australia" and to be honest, it's only one of representation and the odd state visit. I am in favour of a constitutional government headed by a hereditary monarch, I believe it has proven itself to be the most stable form of government but at the end of the day the Windsors play a very small role within modern day Australia, and they know this I am sure.

However, Her Majety the Queen takes her position as Queen of the Commonwealth of Australia very, very seriously and she holds this nation in high regard, with fond memories from her travels here and much (if I may use the word) effection.

When here, she is Queen of Australia first and foremost.

"MII"

Now back on topic.

[susan alicia]

taped the baptism and saw at the reception Laurentien talking to Mary, Mary looked at her, listened, did not say anything nor smile and just walked away, joined some other people and smiled and chatted.

She is very aware of her own importance and perhaps less simple and modest than "real" princesses.

Originally Posted by laduchesse

Overall, I like CP Mary and think she has been doing well in her role. She's accomplished a lot in a short period of time; however, I do agree with some of the criticism that has arisen.

I do agree with those that feel she shouldn't have posed in magazines. Giving interviews relating to a specific cause or that provide an opportunity to promote Denmark, etc. are fine, but posing in fashion magazines where more emphasis is on what she's wearing (as opposed to her speaking or promoting fashion designers from her country) creates the wrong perception about royalty, in my opinion. When I saw the Vogue pictures, it seemed like she was trying to be a model, not a CP.

I can't imagine the pressure one would feel always being accompanied by photographers and I suspect it might be hard to ignore the cameras, but I do feel sometimes it looks like CP Mary is posing (and I don't mean in formal pics), sometimes in a way that comes across as aloof or arrogant. Please accept my apologies if I didn't express myself all that well - I don't intend it to be a personal shot because I don't know Mary. I can't imagine always being genuinely happy with a camera in my face, but then again I don't have a public function where details like that are scrutinized more.

CP Mary is CP of Denmark, not Australia. I think it will be very important to find a balance between official and personal trips to Australia. I think future trips should be more low-key and I think that the DRF should be conscientious not to step on the British Royal Family's role in Australia.

[Margrethe II]

Originally Posted by susan alicia

taped the baptism and saw at the reception Laurentien talking to Mary, Mary looked at her, listened, did not say anything nor smile and just walked away, joined some other people and smiled and chatted.

She is very aware of her own importance and perhaps less simple and modest than "real" princesses.

I am sure there was more to that than what was shown... Mary & Laurentien have met before and were photographed smiling, laughing and engaging in conversation.

What do you mean by "real princesses". Are you referring to a princesses of the Blood?

"MII"

[susan alicia]

yes, that is what I mean

Originally Posted by Margrethe II

I am sure there was more to that than what was shown... Mary & Laurentien have met before and were photographed smiling, laughing and engaging in conversation.

What do you mean by "real princesses". Are you referring to a princesses of the Blood?

"MII"

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by susan alicia

taped the baptism and saw at the reception Laurentien talking to Mary, Mary looked at her, listened, did not say anything nor smile and just walked away, joined some other people and smiled and chatted.

She is very aware of her own importance and perhaps less simple and modest than "real" princesses.

Was this shown on the ZDF broadcast or did you tape from a different channel? It seems very impolite indeed! I have the same feeling (the aloofness) with Mary at times. She can look absolutely lovely, charming, open and friendly, but sometimes her face seems to be made of stone and she gets an expression as if she is overpleased with herself (noticed the stone-face even at times during the baptism, especially when she left the church), which can also be caused by shyness though.

[susan alicia]

yes it was the zdf broadcast, just before she and fredrik left the reception.
It was also in a situation she might not have been aware of the camera.

Of course a great deal of her charm depends on her being happy with herself.

Originally Posted by Marengo

Was this shown on the ZDF broadcast or did you tape from a different channel? It seems very impolite indeed! I have the same feeling (the aloofness) with Mary at times. She can look absolutely lovely, charming, open and friendly, but sometimes her face seems to be made of stone and she gets an expression as if she is overpleased with herself (noticed the stone-face even at times during the baptism, especially when she left the church), which can also be caused by shyness though.

[eireann]

Yes, I also saw this on tv too and thought it was very haughty, but then I saw that shortly after Mary was called for the official photographs. I think she was waiting to be called and so was rather distracted...although on the otherhand I saw images of Fred in great conversations with people. I also noticed a change in Mary when she got up to leave the church. Her whole body language changed and she did appear more aloof. Maybe she´s just still not completely relaxed in front of the press or she is too self-conscious.

[fromEU]

Originally Posted by susan alicia

taped the baptism and saw at the reception Laurentien talking to Mary, Mary looked at her, listened, did not say anything nor smile and just walked away, joined some other people and smiled and chatted.

She is very aware of her own importance and perhaps less simple and modest than "real" princesses.

IMO That’s not true. I just checked and Mary did talk and smile to Laurentien. What we were allowed to see on TV was just a quick round so Mary and Frederik could show the baby to the guests. Then they walked out with the baby so he could get some rest and then Frederik and Mary came back in and took part in the reception. A Politician who attended the reception, was interviewed afterwards and he said the Frederik and Mary walked around and greeted and talked to the guest for the about two hours the reception went on.

[Jamerican]

Originally Posted by eireann

Maybe she´s just still not completely relaxed in front of the press or she is too self-conscious.

I agree with this. I think that when she is being self-conscious, she tends to look quite snobbish. When she is relaxed, she seems much more charming.

[Little_star]

"Maybe she´s just still not completely relaxed in front of the press or she is too self-conscious."
She's had well over 4 years to adjust, so I don't think that is much of an excuse.

[UserDane]

Originally Posted by Little_star

"Maybe she´s just still not completely relaxed in front of the press or she is too self-conscious."
She's had well over 4 years to adjust, so I don't think that is much of an excuse.

Nobody needs an excuse if they do not feel overly relaxed in front of cameras/the press.
It took QMII several years to stop fidgeting a bit in front of cameras and when she's interviewed you can still discern that being in the spotlight in this way is not her favorite thing.
Everybody acts differently in front of cameras; if Mary gets at bit stiff so what?

[wiwaxia]

Don't you think that it's a little disconcerting when a public figure like Crown
Princess Mary doesn't look quite comfortable with the situation, I expect
she'll learn, but it seems to be taking time, it would be good for her if she
could perfect this area of her life.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by wiwaxia

Don't you think that it's a little disconcerting when a public figure like Crown
Princess Mary doesn't look quite comfortable with the situation, I expect
she'll learn, but it seems to be taking time, it would be good for her if she
could perfect this area of her life.

This is what happens when we expect the crown princes to marry for love. We can't have it all, folks. Simply because a prince falls in love with a girl doesn't automatically mean that the girl will be a natural in front of the camera.

When princes married princesses, they knew how the women would behave but now the girls come from such varied backgrounds that there's no guarantee how the girls will adjust to royal life or how long it will take. That's the chance the crown princes take when they marry for love.

Overall, I think Mary would be very unnatural if she never was uncomfortable in front of a camera. If she never was uncomfortable, she would really be an attention-loving, self-centered hog and its impossible to be that attention-loving if she still has times of being uncomfortable in front of the camera.

Mette-Marit also still looks uncomfortable at some public events and she's been married longer than Mary. Its not a criticism against either women, that's simple the way they are. Overall I think the times they are uncomfortable are far outnumbered by the times they are comfortable in their roles so it doesn't impact overall their performance as princesses.