What is your opinion of Frederik and Mary

[Larzen]

Ok, here is some fakts, I know its very boring (and if you read my post you would see I also said not all good news are true)

Theese screen caps are from the report of the Royal Family in 2004 which is made by a professional accountant

the phonebills are for the households.
Frederik and Marys Households Phone and postage bills 75 864 DKR


Margrethe and Henriks households phone and postage bills 468 721 DKR



Gosh Margrethe must be really wastefull talking so much on the phone, I wonder if she has time to look after the country at all...

the whole report is availble at this link
http://download.tdconline.dk/pub/kon.../KH_aars04.pdf

[angele]

Originally Posted by Larzen

Ok, here is some facts, I know its very boring (and if you read my post you would see I also said not all good news are true)

Theese screen caps are from the report of the Royal Family which is made by a professional accountant

the phonebills are for the households.
Frederik and Marys Households Phone and postage bills 75 864 DKR


What year is this for exactly Larzen I was discussing the phone cost of Mary during and after the engagement. I would say that the reins were pulled when they saw the $16,300 expense!

[fromEU]

Originally Posted by angele

$16,300 on phone calls! my mistake

Royal wedding creates $4m debt

There is a large photo of F&M at Amalianborg which accompanied the first Ben English story just before the Oz visit, a picture of the square and Amalianborg, F&M at their wedding and a picture of Fredensborg.

There is a small sub-heading:
'But the queen has discovered a raft of extra costs involved in making life in her household fit for a modern-day princess'

Here is the text (in bits for scanning!):
Removed, se above

This article is full of mistakes, assumptions and distortions and just shows that you should not trust the foreign press, when it comes to what is going on in Denmark. For instance the phone and postages bill of 16300$ is according the DRF’s 2004-report from the administrations costs of Frederik and Mary’s Court(the office) and not Frederik and Marys private phone calls. The court has a lot of phone calls and correspondence not only in Denmark, but also out of the Denmark, for instance when preparing visits aboard and Frederik and Mary got thousands of gifts and congratulation letters which had to be replied with a thank you card. In comparison the Queens court had 100500$ in phone and postage bills. The honeymoon has nothing to do with the deficit at all and the wedding did not cost 4 million. You can not read that anywhere in the annual report. The DRF had different extraordinary costs that year. Prince Henriks 70 birthday, Princess Bennedictes 60 birthday, Fredrik and Mary’s the summer tour in Denmark on Dannebrog, The trip to Greenland with the Queen and Prince Henrik, a new crown 1 car, renovations of the Chancellery House etc. And the Queen has not “described(the deficit) as just a temporary slump in the royal family’s extensive fortunes”. Where does Ben English get that from?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by angele

I put this article in the thread to support the supposed lies that I made up about Mary's telephone bill from calls to Australia.

Perhaps you could point out in the article you posted "to support the supposed lies I made up" where exactly it tells us about "Mary's telephone bill from calls to Australia", because I can't find it. Thanks.

[grevinnan]

The information is completely irrelevant unless put into some context. QEII is running a business - albeit a royal one. Before commenting on the amounts please give some comparisons with other similar types of activites so a comparison can be made.

[angele]

Originally Posted by Warren

Perhaps you could point out in the article you posted "to support the supposed lies I made up" where exactly it tells us about "Mary's telephone bill from calls to Australia", because I can't find it. Thanks.

As mentioned several times already it is not the exact article I was looking for. But if you put two and two together in the sentences about Mary spending all the time on the phone to Australia, and then the follow up of the telephone bill figure, it can logically be seen that this is what the writer is implying indirectly.

[BeatrixFan]

This whole money issue is one that drives me potty. Whether a President and his family or a Queen and her family, money has to be spent. Whether maintaining the White House of Amalienbourg Palace, money has to be spent. Frederik and Mary are bound to be spending money but can Mary be blamed entirely for an increase in spending. Remember that most of that money would have be spent on Mary rather than Mary spending it. I can't understand why there is such a thread that's basically saying, "Let's have a pop at Frederik and Mary" and it seems that poor old Mary gets the brunt of it. I think in some camps it's jealousy. She's got a gorgeous hubby, she looks fantastic and people like her. Is fashion really a legitimate reason to victimise her?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by angele

As mentioned several times already it is not the exact article I was looking for. But if you put two and two together in the sentences about Mary spending all the time on the phone to Australia, and then the follow up of the telephone bill figure, it can logically be seen that this is what the writer is implying indirectly.

No, we can't "put two and two together" because there are no comparisons. And the statement "Mary spending all her time on the phone to Australia" would indicate she did nothing else but that. Surely a gross generalisation? As a few members have already stated, the telephone figure cannot be "followed up" because it is a raw figure and tells us nothing about Mary, or the cost of her telephone calls, or the cost of those calls to Australia. As your posted article states, the figure refers to the total postage and telephone costs for Frederik and Mary.

I am sure we would all be interested to know how you have extrapolated from this figure (in the article you posted as evidence) the cost of Mary's telephone calls to Australia.

After making such an assertion it is a poor argument to then invite us to "logically be seen that this is what the writer is implying indirectly."
This article was posted by you as evidence of Mary's extravagance in regard to certain telephone calls.
But now you say there is no evidence, just someone else's indirect implications.

[BeatrixFan]

When I get a telephone bill, it tells me who I've called, for how long and what it cost. We haven't seen a bill like that, we've just got a final figure. How many of those calls were to staff, Queen Margrethe, to security staff etc? As Warren says, there's no evidence at all as to who Frederik and Mary have been calling and to be honest, if they released such a telephone bill I would find it a gross invasion of privacy.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by angele

in fact its the ones who continue to throw insults and accusations such as being a liar ect that I find are really twisted as are the ones that want to debate this over and over again. My views are negative yes, but I am not going to aplogise or be viewed as twisted because of them.

No, no-one is calling you a liar or asking you to apologise. Please don't overstate the issue. You made the claim about Mary and her telephone calls to Australia. Members, mostly politely, are asking you to back up your assertions with some evidence. So far none has been provided.

[fandesacs2003]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

When I get a telephone bill, it tells me who I've called, for how long and what it cost. We haven't seen a bill like that, we've just got a final figure. How many of those calls were to staff, Queen Margrethe, to security staff etc? As Warren says, there's no evidence at all as to who Frederik and Mary have been calling and to be honest, if they released such a telephone bill I would find it a gross invasion of privacy.

I've read that Mary before her wedding, had for a many months period, special danish courses for abt 3-4 per day. Out of this she had protocol courses, behavior courses, she had to prepare all her wardrobe (from level zero) because I do not think that her previous life allowed her to have evening dresses, coctail dresses, etc, she had to prepare her wedding like any normal girl (even rich), and she had to spend a minimum time with Frederik. So do you think that out of all this she had time to spen her entire day in the phone ????????????

[np242ne]

Originally Posted by angele

What year is this for exactly Larzen I was discussing the phone cost of Mary during and after the engagement. I would say that the reins were pulled when they saw the $16,300 expense!

Just for fact purposes: Using a currency converter to turn the Danish Kroner into Australian dollars, which is what I assume is the currency of the $16,300 you keep mentioning, the 75,864 DKK that Larzen posted translates into $16,283.56 AUD. So it is perhaps the same time period as you've been refering to.

I've just read through this entire thread, and can't think of anything else to add that hasn't been said already. I think that Mary's done a good job in her first years as Crown Princess, and I think she will continue to improve as the years go by.

[BeatrixFan]

Exactly fandesacs2003. The truth is, we only get 5% of the story. Unless we're there living with Mary and watching her every move then we can't possibly understand her way of life or pass judgement on it.

[carlota]

Originally Posted by Harmony

The facts shown that she has attended so many events associated with her patronages in 2005. Honestly speaking that is an impressive list for a new princess. You do not have to compliment her for that but neither is necessary to put her down for small isuues to provoke. She is trying her very best carrying out her Royal duties within a short period of time in a new country and also trying to master one of the most difficult language , Danish. My respect goes without saying to all other new Princesses who I am sure encounter many obstacles in their way in finding their role .:)

i can understand what you say, and i was one of the people who "took off the hat" when mary did such a busy schedule when she was in the last part of her pregnancy, attending most activities alone and offering the best of her smiles, but i think people need to consider others opinions on many other issues. it's not good judging a person picking up only good/bad things, we need to consider the whole.

coming back to topic, i think the problem doesn't come because of how much money she spends on shoes or how much her phone calls cost. that would be really shallow and superficial. look at rania for example: she spends money on clothes, but she has a lot of fans behind them because her work is undeniably good trying to make jordan stand as a modern and non-subjected country, and that's what people look for sometimes. i really don't care how much money royalty spends if they do a good job. another example is royalty in the uk that although some people dont like it, it's a sign of unity and cohesion, and it's one of the monarchies that costs most to mantain to the citizens.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by angele

I do not believe Mary is shy at all, her previous careers were as a real estate agent and lawyer, who has ever met a shy real estate agent, they try to sell you the moon and a lawyer, another job that a shy person would get nowhere in.

I've met both real estate agents and lawyers who were introverts rather than extroverts. You don't have to be a total hermit to count as an introvert, although Queen Mary did seem to be rather an extreme case. The point is that I don't think it's true to say that an introvert wouldn't marry a crown prince.

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by BeatrixFan

When I get a telephone bill, it tells me who I've called, for how long and what it cost. We haven't seen a bill like that, we've just got a final figure. How many of those calls were to staff, Queen Margrethe, to security staff etc? As Warren says, there's no evidence at all as to who Frederik and Mary have been calling and to be honest, if they released such a telephone bill I would find it a gross invasion of privacy.

Exactly. Unfortunately a journalist with an agenda can take a raw figure like that and extrapolate way past the point where it's appropriate, but without saying anything that directly contradicts actual data (because actual data aren't provided), and a lot of people believe what they're being told because it's been said by a journalist who appears to be basing the statement on data when s/he actually isn't.

These days you have to read some of these accounts very carefully and criticially if you want the actual facts as opposed to a journalist's opinion dressed up with apparent information. We're seeing some of the same thing in the UK with allegations in some elements of the press that Camilla is spending vast amounts of money on herself, when there's actually nothing to back that up.

[Margrethe II]

Originally Posted by angele

Yep and in Denmark these clothes would also be known as designer labels and are up there with Prada and D&G ect.

Um...I dont think so..They are Danish owned and based fashion house's (with exception to Uffe Frank) and dont have the exposure that say Prada, Chanel or Yves Saint laurant does.

"MII"

[Margrethe II]

Originally Posted by Lena

And I think what also plays a role is her appearance. She seems stiff, her smile is enforced, her interviews are so pathetic.
I know, that you don&#180;t see it like this and I accept it. But maybe you should also accept, that some simply aren&#180;t very fond of her and that they know of what they speak (and haven&#180;t seen Mary at one fashion duty and that was it) :) <-> <->

I can most certainly except it and I have...I just dont except distortions of the truth or assumptions based on gossip and wishful thinking!!!

"MII" :) :)

[BeatrixFan]

And I think what also plays a role is her appearance. She seems stiff, her smile is enforced, her interviews are so pathetic.

I think you'd be stiff if you're every move was being watched by millions waiting for you to slip up. You'd probably be forcing a smile too if you had to smile all day at everyone you met so they felt special. And your interviews may well be pathetic if you have to get used to a new country, language, husband, family and of course, motherhood. Whatever happened to good ol' compassion?

[Saragli]

Actually Mary has really been a great advertiser for Danish Fashion. She wears awesome designers and you want to learn about those designers. Though I would wish she didnt wear so much international brands, it is the international brands that will get her recognized and then they will look at the danish brands. Are these the personal phone bills of the Royal Family or do they include staff using them, state calles between ministers and foreign goverments and all that other stuff that communication is needed for.