Prince Frederik and Princess Mary's Visit to New York: September 17-21, 2007

[UserDane]

Originally Posted by carlota

in the same fashion, i'd say some patronages of the CP couple are important, but... are they vital? i think these are really what royals should be aiming for: important and high quality (either at the moment or prospective) patronages. fashion is a huge deal for denmark from what members usually tell us in the forum but... is it the most important mary can be patron of? would it make a bigger difference if mary attends a fashion show in denmark to promote danish fashion (mind you, taking into account this, i doubt many people appart from us here at the forum know many danish designers so why not try and promote danish catwalks outside denmark?) or would it be better if she attended another event, for eg. a humanitarian activity or something involving education - duke of edinburgh awards type?

... I had made a long reply to this which disappeared during preview

To sum up my lost reply:

How many fashion patronages does Mary have? Answer: two - 2!
How many patronages are listed just under social and health areas? Answer: Ten - 10!

...and still we are rehashing two of her patronages. I must admit I find it exasperating. Moderators here at TRF have a number of times tried to explain to specific posters that fashion does attract a higher number of photographers than say a meeting at the heart association. But unless we are very fickle and are only able to see the surface of things, we should be able to deduct that 100 photos from a fashion show compared to 4 from a kidney association meeting is not an indication of the value attached to that patronage by the patroness herself!

But I think I will just give up discussing it any more. It's hopeless
(not you in particular Carlota - but in general: I sometimes have the feeling that some poster won't be satisfied until Mary renounces these two patronages, Denmark gives up this profitable industry and we all join the chorus that wants to 'save the world' )

As to vital patronages. What is vital to anybody? If you have a kidney or heart disease or if one of your family members is mentally ill, I would say that yes, these partronages do cover vital issues. If you are blind or deaf these patronages are covered by cp Frederik. So what should they do? Save the whales, join the microcredit cause, join the clear water cause? It is already covered by others.
Why must royals nowadays be regarded as global saviours of worthy causes? And who will define what is worthy?

[Santacruz]

The reason why some posters may have doubts about the trip to New York or the CPC's work in general is that Fred & Mary are not always very authentic. Perfectionism in appearance does not necessarily convince people that there is real substance. For some reason this kind of discussion never occured about other CPCs who do the same kind of work or may be not as perfect in appearance. I don't think that it has something to do with disliking someone. It's more like there is a gap between appearance and image and the real people.

[ricarda]

And I guess you know the real people and therefore can judge whether there is a gap between image and reality.

Perfectionism in appearance does not necessarily mean lack of substance just as bad appearance doesn't mean substance.
And it's strange that those who are pretending they are looking for substance often seem to have such a superficial viewpoint.

[Empress]

Well, I for one don't think that they embody perfectionism. Mind you I am a realist and don't think that any one is perfect, so anyone who would accuse any other person of being perfect is perhaps not being realisitic. In fact, I don;t thin that anyone here is saying that Mary or frederic are PERFECT in the way that you are interpreting it. Mind you everyone has a different version of perfect, so...

Do you think that their outward appearance is perfect? And even if it was, why should that have any nearing what so ever on their personalities? To repeat what I once wrote in another thread, why should anyone choose to go out looking like a mess unless they are trying to make a statement. Everyone dresses to the best of their abilities, and that does not neccessarily have anything at all to do with their personality.

And were Mary and Frederic to not dress for their position, what do you think would garner more attention? Let's say they go out without makeup and in sneakers and ripped jeans with no care for their appearance? Would the world media talk more about their lack of respect for the people they are talking to because they did not take care with their appearance? Or would they focus more on what they had to say. It is a fact of life that people make an opinion based on what they see before what they hear. You see things before you hear them. Generally first impressions are based on appearance.

Or perhaps you are one of the talented few who do not care about appearnce and judge based solely on what comes out of someones mouth? If so more power to you.

I just have one questions though - when you go on a job interview, or to meet someone new, or if you were to be in front of cameras would you not dress to the best of your abilities?

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Empress

I just have one questions though - when you go on a job interview, or to meet someone new, or if you were to be in front of cameras would you not dress to the best of your abilities?

If you dress like a slob people will respond to that - maybe it's not fair but they do. So apprearance does matter - meaning for royals to put emphasis on an as good as possible appearance because this will be judged first and foremost. The rest ... so many of these events are not too important but more or less self promotion, especially for the CP couples.

But when stating that appearance does matter doesn't mean that only appearance matters, there must be a balance. I already said that I had the feeling that Mary overdid the fashion issue a bit on this trip, too much runway like ... take a few eye catchers off Mary and put them on Fred, that would make a better overall appearance

[Santacruz]

Thanks for your answer Empress. There is nothing wrong with trying to be the best you can. Everyone should. But the way looks were overestimated here on this board during the New York trip makes me wonder what the CPC really stands for . There was minor interest in this trip and even many different clothes could not change this. You cannot create interest with looks, there has to be more.

[Empress]

Yes, but this is just a forum where people are entitled to observe who and how they wish, and they should not be castigated for that.

It does not mean that this forum is a representation of the rest of the world. So for the sake of sanity, lets let people gush and be happy about how someone looks. If that is what posters want to focus on, are they not entitled to that just as much you are entitled to not gush and talk about serious issues?

[ysbel]

Actually I thought the pictures of Fred at the lab at Lundbeck were the most interesting of the trip. He seems like an eager kid in a science lab which is kinda cute.

The guys always interest me more than the girls but I find the girls get more of the headlines both good and bad. Everybody finds something different to like or dislike about royals.

[Aurora810]

My oh my, this is astonishing! All weekend long and now into Monday and this trip is still being talked about non-stop. I find it somewhat entertaining that it has been called an unsuccess yet it has kept people talking. Oh, the irony!!!

[Emmily]

Originally Posted by Santacruz

I just doubt what several posters are selling as truth. It is not proven that this trip had any effect on economic issues in the US or Denmark. [edited for personal comment- Empress}

Why don't you provide real evidence that it did not? Not asking about your obvious bias against the Princess. What actual proof do you have ? Have you contacted Creativenation to get their impression on F&M's participation?

[Aurora810]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Actually I thought the pictures of Fred at the lab at Arla were the most interesting of the trip. He seems like an eager kid in a science lab which is kinda cute.

The guys always interest me more than the girls but I find the girls get more of the headlines both good and bad. Everybody finds something different to like or dislike about royals.

Oh yes, someone else that speaks my language, so to speak. The crown princes and the crown princess that have held the titles since birth interest me way more then their counterparts. I guess I feel like they have been groomed for their roles for so long lets see what they can do.

I loved the pics of Fred at the lab. But I think it was Lundbeck, and not Arla. Arla was with all the food. Lundbeck was the research. I think but I could be wrong.

[ricarda]

Originally Posted by Santacruz

Thanks for your answer Empress. There is nothing wrong with trying to be the best you can. Everyone should. But the way looks were overestimated here on this board during the New York trip makes me wonder what the CPC really stands for . There was minor interest in this trip and even many different clothes could not change this. You cannot create interest with looks, there has to be more.

Mary was in NY 4 days and wore 6 different outfits, 4 day, 2 evening, I hardly call that many. Mary was wearing Danish designers, she was trying to look the best she could, she is not responsible for the tendency of this messageboard.

And going by all the look-focused comments you made (showgirl, Helena Christensen...) I doubt it was the overestimation of looks that was bothering you. As someone who did not once comment on their looks I actually think you are the one overestimating looks.

[ysbel]

Thanks Aurora for the correction. Yes it was Lundbeck so I changed it in my post.

I guess I feel like they have been groomed for their roles for so long lets see what they can do.

I agree. I think that is the fascination of royalty. They are born into their role and there is no guarantee that they will be able to do the job better than anybody else but it is somewhat interesting to see what they make of a position that they did not choose themselves.

[Binz]

Originally Posted by ysbel

Actually I thought the pictures of Fred at the lab at Lundbeck were the most interesting of the trip. He seems like an eager kid in a science lab which is kinda cute.

The guys always interest me more than the girls but I find the girls get more of the headlines both good and bad. Everybody finds something different to like or dislike about royals.

And here are a few pictures of Frederiks visiting the coast guard. Both countries have quite a bit of coast line.

ANP Beeldbank

And an article and a link to a video

CROWN PRINCE OF DENMARK VISITS COAST GUARD SECTOR NEW YORK

Two HQ pictures

Crown Prince of Denmark Visits Sector New York

[Lilla]

Originally Posted by Santacruz

Thanks for your answer Empress. There is nothing wrong with trying to be the best you can. Everyone should. But the way looks were overestimated here on this board during the New York trip makes me wonder what the CPC really stands for . There was minor interest in this trip and even many different clothes could not change this. You cannot create interest with looks, there has to be more.

I have got no doubt about what the CPC stand for. They stand for Denmark! And they do it in the most wonderful way - also on this trip. CP Frederik is a real man, he is gentle and charming. CP Mary has got personallity, she can were a bag an still she is beautifull. They are exactly what the CP Couple of Denmark has to be and exactly what I expect of the future King and Queen of Denmark. Royalty at it's best.

[Chimene]

Originally Posted by ricarda

Good discussions - and this is not directed towards you but a general statement about this whole discussion which was anything but respectful and non personal - are based on correct facts not on ignorance, prejudice and "I'm negative whatever they may do"-attitudes.

And that to me has been the basis of my consternation to this whole argument. Excluding Carlota, people seem to be arguing for argument sake or the pleasure of being disagreeable. In Carlota’s post, she expressed very valid points, even if I don’t agree with her overall outlook. And that’s a clear and well-articulated example of what a discussion or debate is about.

Why are we so insistent on setting the benchmarks defining success? Whose goals, ideals and priorities are we arguing about? Is it not the role of the monarchy to serve as figureheads (excuse the expression)? Which means they lend their support to whatever they or their people deemed necessary. With that said, I give up…

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Binz

And here are a few pictures of Frederiks visiting the coast guard. Both countries have quite a bit of coast line.

ANP Beeldbank

And an article and a link to a video

CROWN PRINCE OF DENMARK VISITS COAST GUARD SECTOR NEW YORK

Two HQ pictures

Crown Prince of Denmark Visits Sector New York

Thanks Binz, the ANP link didn't work for me but I was able to find the photos you were referring to. I think though the Coast Guard could use a little help with their public relations pieces. The video on their PR release was terrible quality.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by Chimene

And that to me has been the basis of my consternation to this whole argument. Excluding Carlota, people seem to be arguing for argument sake or the pleasure of being disagreeable. …

If you suspect that someone is arguing for the sake of arguing, you have every right not to engage with them. There is nothing wrong or weak with refusing to participate in a discussion that you think is pointless.

[highpriestess]

Originally Posted by Aurora810

find it somewhat entertaining that it has been called an unsuccess yet it has kept people talking. Oh, the irony!!!

We're a very very very small group of people in the big scheme of things. If DRF counts us as the only PR audience, they're in serious trouble.

As for economic benefit, we really don't need six months to evaluate. It's simple to determine whether their visit had any impact. It's judging from their agenda, places they visited, people they met, news coverage they received. That's how all the publicists evaluate whether a promotional event is successful. Whether there are any deals signed because of the visit may take a longer time, but the PR results can be measured right away. And by the official agenda, it was a PR visit. Nothing more. From pure PR standpoint, I don't know how anyone can argue it's a success.

And please spare us the tired argument that anyone who doesn't gush over how good Mary looks or how well she does her job must be "envious".

[Chimene]

Originally Posted by ysbel

If you suspect that someone is arguing for the sake of arguing, you have every right not to engage with them. There is nothing wrong or weak with refusing to participate in a discussion that you think is pointless.

Thanks, I will do everything in my power to follow your advice.

God grant me the courage to change the things I can, the serenity to accept those I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference.