Mary's Accent and Languages

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by juliana

but not Fred- he has more of an American accent.

I dont think so, Frederik does not sound American at all.

Crown Prince Haakon on the other hand...

I like what she says and how she interacts with people. And there have been Royal consorts before who never even mastered one word in their new homeland's language.....

I agree with you Jo of Palantine

[juliana]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

I dont think so, Frederik does not sound American at all.

Crown Prince Haakon on the other hand...

...went to university in the US (California) ... the same as Frederik who attended university in Boston, Massachusets and afterwards spent time working in New York- both consequently have American accents though Haakon's is certainly more distinctive than Frederik's.
Joachim spent his English speaking time in Australia, hence his accent is different to that of his brother, and he actually speaks English very well and has a similar accent to his mother.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by juliana

both consequently have American accents though Haakon's is certainly more distinctive than Frederik's.

I respectfully disagree. Frederik does not sound American.

I know the Cown Prince studied Science of Government at Harvard from 1991-93, and then worked for three months in New York with the Danish UN Mission in 1994. Returning to Denmark to receive his MA in Political Science from the University of Aarhus in 1995 and posted as First Secretary to the Danish Embassy in Paris from 1998-99.

I agree, Joachim has a lovely pronounciation of the english language just as his mother Having spent time as a farm hand in Wagga Wagga though, I highly doubt that the Prince would have been in the company of many english linguists so I doubt that his english can be a reflection of the time he spent here in 1986-87. More than likely through his eduction back home in Europe.

No ill intent is meant by my difference of opinion and I respect your right to express your views as much as my own, Juliana.

[GlitteringTiaras]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

I respectfully disagree. Frederik does not sound American.

I completely agree!

Frederik's English sounds nothing like an American at all. Not to sound disrespectful either, but his English is pretty bad compared to his brother, HH Princess Alexandra and his mother.

Mary's accent is odd. My friends from Australia were shocked when they heard her speak. They said her accent sounded fake as if she was trying to sound more like an upper class Englishwoman rather than an upper class Australian. They couldn't figure out why she was faking her accent. Personally, I think she was chosing her words carefully so the people of Denmark could understand her clearly hence the odd sentence structure, choice of words, and overtly long pauses in her sentences.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by GlitteringTiaras

I completely agree!

Frederik's English sounds nothing like an American at all. Not to sound disrespectful either, but his English is pretty bad compared to his brother, HH Princess Alexandra and his mother.

Mary's accent is odd. My friends from Australia were shocked when they heard her speak. They said her accent sounded fake as if she was trying to sound more like an upper class Englishwoman rather than an upper class Australian. They couldn't figure out why she was faking her accent. Personally, I think she was chosing her words carefully so the people of Denmark could understand her clearly hence the odd sentence structure, choice of words, and overtly long pauses in her sentences.

Compared to Joachim's english, yes, there is quite a difference Glittering Tiaras

Still, I like Frederik's accent. I find it really cute and well, I can still understand him perfectly

Mary's accent? I really believe its a mix of thinking really carefully about what she is going to say, how to word it, how to project it etc. Its also clearly evident, to me, that Mary's speech has grown a lilt and I, for one, dont find it to be fake. Infact, I find it perfectly normal. Some people have made comments about Australian's who have moved to the US yet, the US is still an english speaking country. Denmark, as we know, is not and is known to be one of continental Europe's most challenging languages. I mean, how guttural is it? Sure, Mary will converse with people in english when appropriate or with Frederik at home but the majority of her life is now in Danish and rightly so. Meetings, briefings, engagements etc..all spoken in Danish.

[Harmony]

Originally Posted by UserDane

Well said, Jo of Palatine

I second that.

Mary's accent? I really believe its a mix of thinking really carefully about what she is going to say, how to word it, how to project it etc. Its also clearly evident, to me, that Mary's speech has grown a lilt and I, for one, dont find it to be fake. Infact, I find it perfectly normal. Some people have made comments about Australian's who have moved to the US yet, the US is still an english speaking country. Denmark, as we know, is not and is known to be one of continental Europe's most challenging languages. I mean, how guttural is it? Sure, Mary will converse with people in english when appropriate or with Frederik at home but the majority of her life is now in Danish and rightly so. Meetings, briefings, engagements etc..all spoken in Danish.

I agree with you Madame Royale.

[Sister Morphine]

In response to Mary's accent: I took French all 4 years of high school and all 5 years I was in college. When I speak French, it doesn't sound like a native-born Parisian speaking. I sound like an American speaking French. So my accent is going to be off-kilter compared to others. Mary went from speaking with an Australian accent to having to learn Danish...that's not an easy language to master. So naturally her accent is going to reflect the fact that she spends the majority of her day NOT speaking English. Her speech is reflecting the fact that she now speaks another language rather fluently....even her English words will have a Danish lilt to them.

I don't view this as a "wannabe" accent of any nature. If you want a "wannabe" British accent, go ask Madonna to say something.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

In response to Mary's accent: I took French all 4 years of high school and all 5 years I was in college. When I speak French, it doesn't sound like a native-born Parisian speaking. I sound like an American speaking French. So my accent is going to be off-kilter compared to others. Mary went from speaking with an Australian accent to having to learn Danish...that's not an easy language to master. So naturally her accent is going to reflect the fact that she spends the majority of her day NOT speaking English. Her speech is reflecting the fact that she now speaks another language rather fluently....even her English words will have a Danish lilt to them.

I don't view this as a "wannabe" accent of any nature. If you want a "wannabe" British accent, go ask Madonna to say something.

I enjoyed your post Sister Morphine and I agree.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by juliana

Wannabe= would be and what is wrong with that?

Sorry, but in my translation wannabe means "Want to be" (with the implication of a failure behind in: somebody who just strifes to achieve a goal but fails because he/she is not able enough. As in: she wants it but she can't make it.). So in the context of your message it is a negative comment, one which sounds to me as a comment used to depreciate the princess.

As for queen Silvia: she is in the same position as Mary but noone ever said of her that she is just a "wannabe" something. I wish Mary would be accorded the same politeness and/or understanding for her difficult situation, that's all. (And added afterthought: here is already a lot of understanding for her, so be thanked for expressing your positive opinions.)

[juliana]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Sorry, but in my translation wannabe means "Want to be" (with the implication of a failure behind in: somebody who just strifes to achieve a goal but fails because he/she is not able enough. As in: she wants it but she can't make it.). So in the context of your message it is a negative comment, one which sounds to me as a comment used to depreciate the princess.

Wannabe is a wishful thought - there are some people who use it in a negative manner so that will presumably be you but don't try to infer that on me. The accent is an attempt at a refined English accent and unfortunately is not 100%.

May I ask why would a proud Australian with a normal pleasant accent try to change it? There is nothing wrong with middle class Aussie accents and they are pleasant to listen to. Do Americans also change their accents- no, because these people are proud of their background which I am sure Mary was. Why the change? She has downtoned her voice also- and the quality comes across as much better, but that is part of elocution lessons usually.

Stop trying to be snide Jo- if you disagree OK? How about setting up a discussion about a royal whose accent you would have expertise on? I can assure you I would respect that, despite not knowing you but I would read your intelligent posts and try to take that on board and certainly would not make insinuating comments to you.


As far as Fred goes his accent is neither English nor American, almost Mid Atlantic as we say, but he certainly has the hint of a North American accent and that would be normal having spent almost 2 years in the US - his main English speaking residence.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by juliana

that would be normal having spent almost 2 years in the US - his main English speaking residence.

But that is going back over 13 years Juliana, and I really dont think that having spent only two years in a country where he was not trying to learn the native drawl, would warrant him now, showing signs of an American lilt. Its just not likely and well, I dont hear it at all

Neither English nor America. Yep, I would certainly agree with that.

Haakon is still a 'regular' visitor to the U.S I believe, so that would perhaps better explain his recognisable American pronounciation

[Jackswife]

To my American ears, Mary's accent sounds like a combination of upper-class British with Scandinavian. In other words, pretty much what I would expect from an Australian-born female who is the future queen of Denmark. Frederik, on the other hand, sounds exactly like a Swedish exchange student that went to my college, so go figure!
Willem-Alexander has a wonderful speaking voice-he sounds like a suburban American guy instead of the Dutch Crown Prince. And Silivia has always sounded Brazilian to me.

[Warren]

Stop trying to be snide...

It's time to tone down the personal comments and resume civil discussion.

thanks.

Warren
Royal Forums Administrator

[Josefine]

when was the last time you heard mary talk, the last interview so to say or speach

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Josefine

when was the last time you heard mary talk, the last interview so to say or speach

Me? When Mary attended the Designer's Nest & CPH Vision on the 13th of August.

[Josefine]

was her speach in danish

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by juliana

Wannabe is a wishful thought - there are some people who use it in a negative manner so that will presumably be you but don't try to infer that on me. The accent is an attempt at a refined English accent and unfortunately is not 100%.

Juliana, what annoys me in your and the posts of others is that you imply to know the (negative) motives of princess Mary and how you seem to judge her results according to this motive. You say it's an "attempt" and - as you judge it to be not 100% - it's a failed attempt in your opinion.

While you of course have the right to express your opinion (and I didn't report your post, did I?), I personally think that it is unfair and condescending to judge a person in Mary's situation because of a change in her accent.

I know from personal experience that my own German changed when I moved from the Palatinate to Suebia and on to Bavaria. Even though I stayed in the south of Germany, I acquired a different "accent" which might not be noticable even for "northern" Germans but is for those who are from the Palatinate. Did I do it by purpose? No - it just happened because due to my profession I have contact to lots and lots of people. Okay, it's not a big deal as here in Germany we base our impression of a person's background, education etc. not on their "accent" but on the way they deal with the language, which is similar, even if you are from the South or the North or from Austria/South Tyrolia.

I realize that "accents" have a different decoding when it comes to English - I learned that someone with a "working class accent" - while speaking from the choice of words/Grammar etc. the best of English - is still considered "working class". That is okay with me, it's a different systems and that's that. But discussing princess Mary's change of accent in this context means to me a kind of depreciation. As if she didn't manage to make it. Failed the requirements of her new position.

While I OTOH can understand very well how she came to be where she is language-wise. I may be wrong. But at least I'm not searching for a more or less hidden "motive" apart from believing she is doing all in her might to be a "good" princess.

May I ask why would a proud Australian with a normal pleasant accent try to change it? There is nothing wrong with middle class Aussie accents and they are pleasant to listen to. Do Americans also change their accents- no, because these people are proud of their background which I am sure Mary was. Why the change? She has downtoned her voice also- and the quality comes across as much better, but that is part of elocution lessons usually.

In this citation of your post I think it's very clear that you hint at Mary's motive and how you see it: you say "Americans doesn't change their accents because they are proud of their backgrounds." When you say that you are sure Mary "was" too (not: has been!) you imply that she is not longer proud of her background and thus (un-sucessfully!) changed her accent.

But people who are into working on their language/way of speaking etc. change their voice/accents etc. - there need not be any hidden or open agenda, it just happens because of their doing exercises in speaking.

I'm sorry if you feel unjustly critizised by me - I tried to make my points clearer now as still I wish for some more understanding for the situation of the princess. I like her, yes and for me she is a great asset for our Danish neighbours, especially for their prince who is happily married to her!

[grevinnan]

"Americans doesn't change their accents because they are proud of their backgrounds."

Americans are very attached to their accents if it is the right one. Most Bostonian wouldn't change their accent no matter where they move to. A lower class Southern accent will disappear if the speaker moves north and moves up in their professional or personal lives. Americans adopt their accents to suit their professional or personal choices just like anyone else. Australian english is not considered very refined outside of Australia. In the circles royals move there is a "diplomatic" english that rules unless you already speak an upper class British english. Our language and accent defines us just as manners and clothing do.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Josefine

was her speach in danish

Yes, it was Josephine.

I realise that as we are talking of Mary's english, that it may infact seem quite irrelevant but it is the perfect example of a lady doing her best to fulfill her duty and obligation to the Danish language.

Mary's speech, whilst notably Australian to the ear was never one of great projection or forcefulness. It was actually quite subtle, but, reamained clear. Mary did not share her siblings rural enunciation and having studied Commerce and Law and then gainning employment within the advertising and marketing industries, its no surprise she maintained a well rounded, well executed manner of speaking. In that environment and line of work, you must.

Australian english is not considered very refined outside of Australia

Neither is American :whistling

[Australian]

Originally Posted by grevinnan

Australian english is not considered very refined outside of Australia.

Really? Well most of the people I know talk normally, would you say Cate Balchett, Nicole Kidman, Hugh Jackman and Russell Crowe dont have a refined accent? They speak normal Australian to me, most people I know speak like them.