Mary's Accent and Languages

[EIIR]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Let's get back on track, shall we?

Is it me you are referring to?
Because I have stated that Marie's pronounciation is very good indeed and she's is very easy to understand.
Mary has a more distinct accent, in that respect she's no different form other English speakers. Presumably it has something to do with different sounds.
The Æ and Ø sounds exists in the French language but not so much in English.
It is also my impression that learning languages is not one of Mary's most outstanding talents, while Marie speaks several, albeit more or less related, languages.
That doesn't detract from Mary. On the contrary in fact, it just means she has had to work even harder.

Mary's mastery of Danish is very good indeed. Even down to the idioms. Marie is not there yet. - She will eventually and I do believe she will end up speaking Danish with a less distinctive accent than Mary.

Mary's accent is charming because she actually master the language, in contrast to Prince Henrik, whose understanding of Danish is excellent indeed, but his spoken Danish is pretty bad and that annoys a lot of people.

I honestly don't remember where I heard it.

Be very careful though, Muhler, apparently what you just said is considered a 'put down' to Mary on this forum.

[ricarda]

EIIR, I would say there is a huge difference between Muhler's posts and yours.

[EIIR]

He said that Mary had more of an accent than Marie, that learning languages was not one of Mary's most outstanding talents and that he believes that Marie will end up speaking Danish with less of an accent than Mary will. All that is a way of saying that he believes that Marie will speak Danish in a more natural sounding way than Mary will.

All I said was that I had read elsewhere that Marie's Danish was better than Mary's. Apparently that's a huge put down of Mary, even though I expressed no opinion of my own.

[Patra]

I've always enjoyed Mary's diction and delivery, she has an elegant and thoughtful speaking manner, IMO.

[Dierna23]

Originally Posted by EIIR

He said that Mary had more of an accent than Marie, that learning languages was not one of Mary's most outstanding talents and that he believes that Marie will end up speaking Danish with less of an accent than Mary will. All that is a way of saying that he believes that Marie will speak Danish in a more natural sounding way than Mary will.

All I said was that I had read elsewhere that Marie's Danish was better than Mary's. Apparently that's a huge put down of Mary, even though I expressed no opinion of my own.

I've heard it as well that Marie's Danish is better, but I don't speak Danish, so I can't judge. As to French accent - it is very difficult to overcome in my opinion and we shouldn't forget that Mary is the CP and married since 2004, whereas Marie is learning Danish only since about four (?) years. What I've always found funny is the odd accent Mary has when she talks English nowadays.

[MissByrd]

Hello, I just ran across this discussion...so, please forgive me if the link to musical ability and languages has already been mentioned. There is a definite link.

In our family, we have several pianists, violinists, band members, sopranos, baritones, bass, etc. And, everyone of us has an "ear" for sound, which includes nuances of speech. This often includes an ability to mimic rather well, too, which can add to the general fun.

And, those who never ever change their speech patterns may not have a musical "ear"? Smile...

[agami.pearl]

Originally Posted by Dierna23

I've heard it as well that Marie's Danish is better, but I don't speak Danish, so I can't judge. As to French accent - it is very difficult to overcome in my opinion and we shouldn't forget that Mary is the CP and married since 2004, whereas Marie is learning Danish only since about four (?) years. What I've always found funny is the odd accent Mary has when she talks English nowadays.

I have similar opinion like you. I don't speak Danish, find it as a very hard language to learn and I admire all of which could master it. For me Marie sounds more natural, she probably doesn't have big vocabulary yet, but she started learn Danish less then 5 years ago. And I'm pretty sure that she often speak French with Joachim and babies cause they want raised them multilingual. Mary is trying but I would expected better results after 8 years (she started to learn before the engagement). When she speaks I have an impression that she's trying to find a words or she translates them in her head. Often makes breaks and whole saying is not smoothly. It spoils the overall impression. I won't say anything about her English but when I saw her engagement interview I wasn't sure where did she come from. Her accent is hard to place. She speaks correct Danish, probably doesn't have language skills like Marie but it doesn't mean that she should try harder. Denmark is now her homeland and it would be nice to hear than CP of Denmark speaks Danish well.
It just my opinion and I know that some posters won't agree with me.

[Muhler]

It is actually fun to compare Mary and our Marie and their approach.

Marie to this day use fairly simple expressions and simple sentences, which is probably a sound idea and very useful for fairly non-committal conversations.

Mary on the other hand had to, (and wanted to) take on more complicated subjects and also convey more complicated subjects. And that meant that she used more complicated words to get her exact meaning across. Using a word like "voldsudøvende = someone committing violence" (from a documentary) which is difficult for us natives!
Mary admitted that she initially tried to translate what she meant to say directly from English to Danish - and as you probably know, that doesn't work.
It's my impression that Mary has charged the Danish language head on, and on a fairly advanced level, while Marie use the school-approach: This is a cow. The cow is brown. Cows eat grass. - You get my meaning?

And then there is the little thing about local accents. Mary speaks with a distinct Copenhagener accent. Or Northern Zealandic accent perhaps.

Marie speaks with a slight southern Jutlandic accent, as nwinther pointed out.
Now, over the years I have been contacted by several who wanted to learn Danish and they have later said that people speaking with a southern Jutlandic accent are much easier to understand. One of them, an American, attended a class at university and she had a Danish teacher from Copenhagen. She had problems understanding spoken Danish. So she was allowed to use a YouTube video of a former PM delivering a New Year speech as a part of her examen. He spoke with a distinct Southern Jutlandic tone. She found that he was much easier to understand - and she passed.
- As a native I am not in a position to say why the PM is easier to understand than QMII delivering her New Year speech. But I can well imagine that I would find it easier to understand someone from Boston than someone from New Orleans, who are saying the exact same thing.

Then there is the spouse-factor. You of course learn most from the one who is closest to you.
And we don't know about Marie's approach. Perhaps she used the approach of asking questions all day long to the point of Joachim waking up at night, bathed in cold sweat, screaming: "It's a sheep. The sheep is white. Sheeps taste...ehh".

Alexandra on the other hand has admitted that she and Joachim did not speak Danish that much together initially. "It would be a teacher-pupil relationship" as she put it. But she has an interest in languages and she has a German speaking mother. That probably helped as no one can put a finger on Alexandra's Danish.

[Sternchen]

Originally Posted by agami.pearl

I have similar opinion like you. I don't speak Danish, find it as a very hard language to learn and I admire all of which could master it. For me Marie sounds more natural, she probably doesn't have big vocabulary yet, but she started learn Danish less then 5 years ago. And I'm pretty sure that she often speak French with Joachim and babies cause they want raised them multilingual. Mary is trying but I would expected better results after 8 years (she started to learn before the engagement). When she speaks I have an impression that she's trying to find a words or she translates them in her head. Often makes breaks and whole saying is not smoothly. It spoils the overall impression. I won't say anything about her English but when I saw her engagement interview I wasn't sure where did she come from. Her accent is hard to place. She speaks correct Danish, probably doesn't have language skills like Marie but it doesn't mean that she should try harder. Denmark is now her homeland and it would be nice to hear than CP of Denmark speaks Danish well.
It just my opinion and I know that some posters won't agree with me.

Maries way of speaking is a very simple one, even when she is interviewed in english. So her pronounciation and accent might be better, but I don't think that her vocabulary will be as big as the one of Mary or Henrik.

I don't think Mary translates words in her head. Her replies while in a conversation are too fast for that. I think the main point when giving interviews is, that she chooses her words carefully, which imo is a good thing to do.

[EIIR]

Careful Dierna23 and agami.pearl your posts will be construed as put downs too if you're not careful!

Saying one is better than the other when doing something that most of us never bother to do - try to become fluent in a foreign language - is not a put down in any way, shape or form. It's difficult to do and they both appear, from what others are saying, to be making a decent fist of it.

Although I do agree that Mary now speaks English with a rather distinct Danish/British twang.

[ricarda]

Two posters who actually speak Danish as a mother tongue already gave profound and fair descriptions of Mary's and Marie's current Danish skills.
How things will develop in the future we don't know yet.

Yet posters who don't know the language insist that Marie's Danish is better or sounds more natural. Or come to the conclusion that Mary doesn't try hard enough. I wonder why?

Saying one is better than the other can be meant as a put down (especially if you actually don't know the language and cannot really make a fair judgement). It depends on the poster and the context.

[Archduchess Zelia]

As a Dane, I'm just glad that both Mary and Marie speak better Danish than our Prince Consort

Marie obviously has been working hard on her Danish lately and it sounds really, really well, but I don't think she's better than Mary yet, whereas Marie maybe speaks with less of a accent than Mary, I'm sure Mary's Danish vocabulary is bigger than Marie's because she's been here longer.

And quite frankly, I don't think the average Dane cares much about which one of them speaks better Danish.

[Madame Royale]

As a Dane, I'm just glad that both Mary and Marie speak better Danish than our Prince Consort

Marie obviously has been working hard on her Danish lately and it sounds really, really well, but I don't think she's better than Mary yet, whereas Marie maybe speaks with less of a accent than Mary, I'm sure Mary's Danish vocabulary is bigger than Marie's because she's been here longer.

And quite frankly, I don't think the average Dane cares much about which one of them speaks better Danish.

I agree.

And as for those who consistently mention Mary's accent in a way that would suggest it is (in whatever capacity) detremental to her fluency in Danish, they're going to have to get over it as it's entirely unlikely that she shall ever lose it.

An accent is an accent, it is what it is. And yet, by all accounts Danish posters on these forum's continue to state that Mary is fluent in Danish and that her vocabulary is quite extensive. In that, I know who's opinions I'm likely to consider reliable

[Eden]

I find it amusing that most English speakers accept another English speakers with an accent, even finding it cute/sexy. But we can't seem to grasp the difference between an accent and someone who doesn't have a good grasp of a language. As long as the person is understood and is able to get their message across, who cares!

It seems to me reading these posts, that people don't take the time to read what others are writing and are picking out one or two words and making an argument based on that.

IMO reading the comments from the Danes, is that both woman speak Danish.

Mary has a greater vocabulary and can understand and use more complicated terminology.

Marie has a more simple vocabulary, but less of an obvious accent.

Both woman do a good job.

For someone reading this post for the first time there seems to be a Mary group and a Marie group. I guess this is normal and will cause arguments for no other reason than they like one over the other. Pity, I thought this was an adult forum not a high school one...

[Artemisia]

Well put!
I don't see why Mary and Marie's accents should be compared at all.
In fact, I don't understand the whole debate as long as Danish people are content with their two Princesses - which they obviously are.

[camelot23ca]

I'm in no position to comment on the quality of Mary's Danish language skills, but I've always enjoyed listening to her speak in either Danish or English since she has one of the nicest speaking voices I've ever heard. Very soothing and melodic, IMO.

[IloveCP]

Here are two videos of Mary speaking Danish:

Crown Princess Mary inaugurates the University College Sjaellands Campus Roskilde - Speech - YouTube

Crown Princess Mary at Cancer Society's Sun Campaign(2010) - YouTube

Would love to hear her speak French. I read that she does.

[Mariel]

Prince Albert must speak "standard English" rather than British English or any American regional accent. His mother, as an actress, spoke standard English, as I recall, but with a slightly "eastern American" version, can't remember it that well...but it sounded "snobby" to me, as I grew up on the West Coast, where we spoke Standard English with a vengeance! The best Standard English I have heard in aeons was that of Prince Felix at the cathedral in Luxembourg, reading in English at his brother's wedding. My own English was not standard enough when I became a teacher, as I had a slight lisp which I wasn't aware of (due to shape of teeth) and my voice was very quiet. I had to learn to project the poor little voice, and I succeeded even though the master teacher didn't think I could. So people change their voices. Professional linguists say they just can't guess where I grew up, because my English is Standard English. But I slip into a brogue if I talk to an Irishman. Just as others here "become" whom they are talking to.
If I spoke to Prince Felix I would be talking to myself.

[Sun Lion]

[QUOTE=Madame Royale;1390739]I agree.
"And as for those who consistently mention Mary's accent in a way that would suggest it is (in whatever capacity) detremental to her fluency in Danish, they're going to have to get over it as it's entirely unlikely that she shall ever lose it."


Princess Grace used to be criticized for speaking French with an American accent - but that was back in the middle of last century - and we're all aware of how differently English can be spoken - Kiwi accented vs South African vs some-one from Yorkshire or Scotland, the American accent from New York vs the southern states etc.

Do the Danes criticize Mary's accent or is it more people on forums? (I've seen it mentioned for a long time on the internet.)

No Aussie expects people to talk with a Strine accent when they move here - even after living here all their life. You'll be asked about yourself and where you're from if you have an accent, and a genuine interest will be taken in you - (probably because although we're a multi-cultural society, we still feel everything is "happening" somewhere else, and we're tucked away at the bottom of the world missing out on it all - whatever "it all" might be.)

If there is criticisim from the Danish media, or Danish population, surely they need to look outward a bit more and see the world is coming to their door and people from elsewhere will never speak their language as they do - and may never grasp all the nuances of the grammar.

An accent shows some-one's individuality and history.

Don't ever loose your Aussie accent Mary - after all, Fred speaks English with a Danish accent when he comes here.

Cheers Everyone, Sun Lion.

[Madame Royale]

Do the Danes criticize Mary's accent

The Danes expect Mary should have an accent when speaking Danish, many Australian's would aniticipate a shift in Mary's pronounciation when articulating in english and those who are neither Danish nor Australian tend to be the most critical. Rather odd.

...or is it more people on forums? (I've seen it mentioned for a long time on the internet.)

On this particular forum, yes.