Mary's Accent and Languages

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Elchbaer

No! They mean, that she still refuses to speak Danish. When she answers a question or when she gives an interview - than she speaks English.

Perhaps I should have been more candid with my response so as to avoid any confusion?

The 'article', which you posted is rubbish. There is very little credence to it. Without a doubt fuelled by the recent remarks made by a "concerned" editor and journalist in Denmark.

Perhaps you would like to do some research on it yourself if you get the chance

[UserDane]

Originally Posted by Elchbaer

No! They mean, that she still refuses to speak Danish. When she answers a question or when she gives an interview - than she speaks English.

She does??
The German article doesn't say anything about answering questions in English; it speculates on 'rumours' and 'language experts' (I want to see one of these anonymous language experts one day ....) - nothing about questions.
I heard titbits from the TV session when they left the hospital with Isabella - and she answered Danish questions in Danish - and English questions in English of course.

[H.M. Margrethe]

Originally Posted by UserDane

She does??
The German article doesn't say anything about answering questions in English; it speculates on 'rumours' and 'language experts' (I want to see one of these anonymous language experts one day ....) - nothing about questions.
I heard titbits from the TV session when they left the hospital with Isabella - and she answered Danish questions in Danish - and English questions in English of course.

No she does not refuse to speak danish
As you said Mary answer the questions in danish and in english when she,Frederik and Isabella went home from the hospital this year.

I think that she is alot better to speak danish than her farther-inlaw Princeconsort Henrik is and ever will be. Henrik has been her in Denmark in 40 years an still it sounds wierd when he try to speak/talk danish.

[ricarda]

Originally Posted by Elchbaer

No! They mean, that she still refuses to speak Danish. When she answers a question or when she gives an interview - than she speaks English.

Excuse me, but that is not exactly what is written in this short article.

This is actually just a summary/echo of what was written in Danish media. They say that there is a rumour in Denmark that Mary doesn't give interviews because she might be too lazy to learn the language (this is the question they put) and that a language expert warns she might end up like Prince Henrik if she doesn't take the trouble. And they say that Henrik is born French and sounds like a Bulgarian circus director.

But you are right, they make it sound a little bit as if she doesn't speak Danish yet.
Whereas some Danes were complaining that her Danish doesn't improve well/fast enough.

[Elchbaer]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Perhaps I should have been more candid with my response so as to avoid any confusion?

The 'article', which you posted is rubbish. There is very little credence to it. Without a doubt fuelled by the recent remarks made by a "concerned" editor and journalist in Denmark.

Perhaps you would like to do some research on it yourself if you get the chance

First: I asked if CP Mary stopped her danish lessons! (I didn't said, that the source - I find - is GREAT!)
Second: I didn't translate the German article - I resume some articles...
Third: I read some Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, German, English and Australien Newspapers (web) and found the same article and the same critic more than one time. Is this enough research or it is necessary to write a dissertation about it?

And all because of the fact, that I asked: "Did she stopped her Danish lessons?"

[Madame Royale]

First: I asked if CP Mary stopped her danish lessons! (I didn't said, that the source - I find - is GREAT!)

I was referring to the same (or exceptionally similar) story being restated over and over in various countries. I never did say, as my posts make clear, that you did say the article was 'great' so...

I was making light of the article itself, and made note of the the heading "Disappointed the Danes" in my post.

It would seem you took the response somewhat personally which is unfortunate.

Second: I didn't translate the German article - I resume some articles...

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. 'Resume' some articles?

Third: I read some Danish, Swedish, Norwegian, German, English and Australien Newspapers (web) and found the same article and the same critic more than one time.

And where is it you think all these tabloids find their main source? You yourself have said you found the same article more than once so surely that speaks volumes.

Is this enough research or it is necessary to write a dissertation about it?

A dissertation? Well, if you feel the need to further advance your interest to such lengths, then I'm sure no one shall stop you.

And all because of the fact, that I asked: "Did she stopped her Danish lessons?"

And considering I never brought up the Crown Princess's language studies, I see no reason as to why your taking issue with me, regarding your question.

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Elchbaer

I read in a German newspaper, that CP Mary still isn't able to speak danish. Did she

stopped her Danish lessons?

Translation (Headline): Disappointed the Danes

You can read the (original-)article here:
Image of Disappointed the Danes - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Source: DAS NEUE BLATT, Nr. 30 18.07.2007

Come on, this is the least reliable yellow press paper of all. Lately they wrote that Letizia is bound on divorce and that Queen Beatrix hates Maxima.... Forget it...

[wiwaxia]

Originally Posted by H.M. Margrethe

No she does not refuse to speak danish
As you said Mary answer the questions in danish and in english when she,Frederik and Isabella went home from the hospital this year.

I think that she is alot better to speak danish than her farther-inlaw Princeconsort Henrik is and ever will be. Henrik has been her in Denmark in 40 years an still it sounds wierd when he try to speak/talk danish.

I beg to differ on that one, Prince Henrik speaks perfectly good Danish, but he is often criticised because he has a discernable french accent, pretty much the same as Danes when they speak English!

[H.M. Margrethe]

Originally Posted by wiwaxia

I beg to differ on that one, Prince Henrik speaks perfectly good Danish, but he is often criticised because he has a discernable french accent, pretty much the same as Danes when they speak English!

wiwaxia have you ever heard the real danish and then the Prince Henrik danish/french ?
Henrik is one of the worst peapol to speak my language and my gues is that he DON`T want to learn it...Countess Alexandra has been her in Denmark in about 12 years for now and speak Danish a lot better than her former farther-inlaw because she WANTED to learn it...It dos not make it better that Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik talks in French when they are together in their homes and that migth be the reason for Prince Henrik very poor language skills for the Danish

[Fashionista100]

Mary speaks Danish with her and Fred in their home. They have said so themselves. She doesn't refuse to give interviews in Danish. They rarely give interviews period. When they are asked questions in Danish, they reply in Danish. When asked questions in English, they reply in English. The Danish press does not ask questions in English that often to them. Mary has a large following in English speaking countries, so you will hear her answer in Danish more. Even in the documentary before they got married you can hear her talking in Danish to Fred. And their cheif of court (don't know if this is his correct title) Per Thornit said everyone speaks Danish to her.

As for her lessons no one knows if she still has them or not. I doubt she does. She speaks and understands Danish very well. But maybe she has consulations when she makes a speech using uncommon Danish words.

[wiwaxia]

Originally Posted by H.M. Margrethe

wiwaxia have you ever heard the real danish and then the Prince Henrik danish/french ?
Henrik is one of the worst peapol to speak my language and my gues is that he DON`T want to learn it...Countess Alexandra has been her in Denmark in about 12 years for now and speak Danish a lot better than her former farther-inlaw because she WANTED to learn it...It dos not make it better that Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik talks in French when they are together in their homes and that migth be the reason for Prince Henrik very poor language skills for the Danish

Yes I have heard 'real' Danish, and I have also heard Prince Henrik speak Danish, and IMO he speaks quite correctly, but with an accent that obviously belongs to a Frenchman - his grammar and syntax seem to be within the realms of accuracy and understanding, he is IMO perfectly articulate despite the French accent, and as I said, it is the same difference when Danes speak English, - with a Danish accent, but that doesn't mean that they speak bad English.

[UserDane]

Sorry Wiwaxia - but a claim that prince Henrik speaks perfectly good Danish will make half the Danish population keel over in laughter if they read it!

I quite agree with H.M. Margrethe

[H.M. Margrethe]

Originally Posted by wiwaxia

Yes I have heard 'real' Danish, and I have also heard Prince Henrik speak Danish, and IMO he speaks quite correctly, but with an accent that obviously belongs to a Frenchman - his grammar and syntax seem to be within the realms of accuracy and understanding, he is IMO perfectly articulate despite the French accent, and as I said, it is the same difference when Danes speak English, - with a Danish accent, but that doesn't mean that they speak bad English.

Sorry to say this but befor Prince Henrik is a real dane he has to speak the language real and that he does NOT..
I am born and bread her in Denmark and i am not amusted over Prince Henriks so callede skill in the danish language. Come on wiwaxia the man has been her in Denmark for over 40 years an still he refuse to speak my language real and propper.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

Come on, this is the least reliable yellow press paper of all. Lately they wrote that Letizia is bound on divorce and that Queen Beatrix hates Maxima.... Forget it...

DAS GOLDENE BLATT is so unreliable that the stories can only be seen as a joke ... Beatrix hates Maxima ... great ... I recall that Queen Silvia once sued them because they wrote Victoria & Madeleine had secret children

Maybe we'll know more about Mary's danish / english when we see her part of the Koenigskinder docu on August 14th.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by wiwaxia

Yes I have heard 'real' Danish, and I have also heard Prince Henrik speak Danish, and IMO he speaks quite correctly

Though given you're foreigner (respectively) who themselves is not familiar with the Danish language on an everyday basis, your idea of what 'sounds' to be good Danish, and what is fluent and correct Danish, are two entirely different things.

What seems relatively good to those who don't speak the language can sound rather poorly to those who do. And given that User Dane and H.M. Margrethe are themselves Danish, born and bred, I believe their ability to recognise what it is Henrik 'falls short of', are both informed assessments.

[KikkiB]

As an ESL teacher, I have to make a general comment upon the discussion that has gone on in this thread, at least the last few posts.

Some people have hard of learning languages, and struggle with pronounciation. They just don't get it 100% right no matter how hard they try. They just don't have an ear for it. Not knowing Prince Henry and not being totally updated on his language skills, he might be one of those persons who just don't learn languages easily. Anyway, the general idea of Norwegian foreign language teaching is that communication comes before pronounciation. That is, it's more important to make oneself understood with the language you have (and obviously widen the vocabulary) rather than speak it perfectly. So in my opinion, even if Prince Henry has been in Denmark for decades, as long as he can communicate well in Danish, the pronounciation don't matter so much.

Another argument is, that the Scandinavian languages (both syntax and pronounciation) is hard to learn in the first place (stated by foreigners in Scandinavia). If you have the problems mentioned above it's even harder. (A colleague of mine, whose mother tongue is English, has lived in Norway for 12 years and still has a rather limited vocabulary, syntax and pronounciation). Also, Danish being a rather glottal language, the transition from French with their pronounciation of letters such as "R" to Danish and their soft consonants must be very challenging. Also, CP Mary (and Countess Alexandra), having English as a mother tongue, might have had a slight advantage, due to the closeness (to some degree syntax and vocabulary) between English and the Scandinavian languages (which French doesn't have). And perhaps they have a better ear for languages...

[juliana]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

What seems relatively good to those who don't speak the language can sound rather poorly to those who do. And given that User Dane and H.M. Margrethe are themselves Danish, born and bred, I believe their ability to recognise what it is Henrik 'falls short of', are both informed assessments.

There are also some Danes who do not think her Danish is impressive but certainly as far as an accent is concerned that is moot- we all have accents, even those born and bred in a country can have huge different accents, so not sure why Henrik's accent for example is problematic in Denmark.

However pleased you explained that "what seems relatively good to those who don't speak the langauage can sound rather poorly to those who do" because that also supports the nonsensical change in the Australian/English accent she has developed which is what the first post in this thread was about.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by juliana

There are also some Danes who do not think her Danish is impressive but certainly as far as an accent is concerned that is moot- we all have accents, even those born and bred in a country can have huge different accents, so not sure why Henrik's accent for example is problematic in Denmark.

It's not Henrik's accent, it's the 'guardedness' he seems to possess, after 40's years to have reached a state of fluency which certianly a nation would have anticipated from the Consort of their Head of State, who upon marriage became a Danish citizen. The man's lived in Denmark longer than he had in France.

However pleased you explained that "what seems relatively good to those who don't speak the langauage can sound rather poorly to those who do" because that also supports the nonsensical change in the Australian/English accent she has developed which is what the first post in this thread was about.

Mary's Danish certainly needs improving and like Henrik (or unlike Henrik), she has the rest of her life to focus on it.

"Nonsensical" change? Gradual variation I'd think. At least from the attention I've payed to Mary's voice, that's the conclusion I've come to, but each to their own.

We Australian's (ex pats included) have the liberty of not speaking a tongue which over accentuates itself, which therefore enables our pattern of speech to adapt to other vernacular's after extended periods of time, or indeed schooling, quite well.

Not all, but many.

[wiwaxia]

Originally Posted by UserDane

Sorry Wiwaxia - but a claim that prince Henrik speaks perfectly good Danish will make half the Danish population keel over in laughter if they read it!

I quite agree with H.M. Margrethe

Well, my post wasn't wasted if I gave ½ the danish population a 'larf', nothing tried, nothing gained UserDane!

Originally Posted by H.M. Margrethe

Sorry to say this but befor Prince Henrik is a real dane he has to speak the language real and that he does NOT..
I am born and bread her in Denmark and i am not amusted over Prince Henriks so callede skill in the danish language. Come on wiwaxia the man has been her in Denmark for over 40 years an still he refuse to speak my language real and propper.

I have no difficulty understanding him! I don't think I know what constitutes a 'real' Dane! - but if you mean that he will never be accepted because of the pervading French tones when he speaks Danish, then you are right, he will never be real, - he is French after all, and for me that figures. I wasn't aware that he refuses to learn 'proper' Danish.....is there any evidence for this?

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

Though given you're foreigner (respectively) who themselves is not familiar with the Danish language on an everyday basis, your idea of what 'sounds' to be good Danish, and what is fluent and correct Danish, are two entirely different things.

What seems relatively good to those who don't speak the language can sound rather poorly to those who do. And given that User Dane and H.M. Margrethe are themselves Danish, born and bred, I believe their ability to recognise what it is Henrik 'falls short of', are both informed assessments.

I don't recollect saying anything about my origins!! - so the assumptions are you're own conclusion, and besides, FYI you can obtain a university degree in Russian for example, without ever having been there!

[juliana]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

It's not Henrik's accent, it's the 'guardedness' he seems to possess, after 40's years to have reached a state of fluency which certianly a nation would have anticipated from the Consort of their Head of State, who upon marriage became a Danish citizen. The man's lived in Denmark longer than he had in France.

But you living in an immigrant country should surely realise that a mother tongue is completely different to the second language that adults have to learn. There is nothing wrong with accents and as far as I am aware I thought Henrik had a very good Danish vocabulary - just with a French accent.

Originally Posted by Madame Royals

"Nonsensical" change? Gradual variation I'd think. At least from the attention I've payed to Mary's voice, that's the conclusion I've come to, but each to their own.

I thought from hearing the accent when she first became publically acknowledged that it had already changed and of course perhaps she was trying to emulate her future Danish relations' very good English accents.

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

We Australian's (ex pats included) have the liberty of not speaking a tongue which over accentuates itself, which therefore enables our pattern of speech to adapt to other vernacular's after extended periods of time, or indeed schooling, quite well.

Not all, but many.

In any case thought the standard Aussie accent is based on the estuary english and as even the Queen has changed her acccent I suppose that is OK.