Frederik and Mary's Work Schedule

[Saphire]

When I started this discussion it was out of curiosity about how much work, that we don't see, this couple is doing. I think that we will never now what they do or don't do behind closed doors or with this foundations/groups in private. It really is a moot point, some couples are very visual and we see them attending many functions during the week, others seem to attend just a few. Not saying that the ones who have full schedules work more, I don't know that, but, but, they can be perceived as working more. On the other side of the coin, those who have fewer public appearances may be working just as hard as the ones with full schedules. It's hard to say as we don't have full access to their daily schedules.

I don't think there is any doubt that the causes that the Danish Crown Princess Couple support are worthwhile. I think the question is how much work are they actually doing. We see them taking a whole week of celebrations for a birthday, we see them at concerts, summer vacations are coming up, not that they shouldn't have fun, but with the fun comes the responsibility of a lot of work.

Again, I don't know what they do behind closed doors. I don't know how much work they are doing themselves, and how much is being done for them so everything is based on perception, and we know perception depends on the person.

Also, I am sure that CPs Mary is a a good human being, but lending her name and face to a cause while a great thing to do does not put her in the same sphere as Mother Teresa.

 

[Amelia]

We see them taking a whole week of celebrations for a birthday

We did?

I think the question is how much work are they actually doing.

You will never have an answer to that question because unless you spend every single minute of every single day with them there is no way for you to know how much they are actually doing when they are out of the camera's reach. You could, if you wanted, take Mary's word for it that they do work behind the scenes, that just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't involved or you could choose to believe that she is lying and does nothing but sit on her backside all day being waited on by an army of servants. I guess it all boils down to what your own personal opinion of the couple is.

Also, I am sure that CPs Mary is a a good human being, but lending her name and face to a cause while a great thing to do does not put her in the same sphere as Mother Teresa.

I don't think I have ever seen any member here ever compare a royal to Mother Theresa, but there is nothing wrong in acknowledging the things they do for their country.

 

[Lilla]

I don't think there is any doubt that the causes that the Danish Crown Princess Couple support are worthwhile. I think the question is how much work are they actually doing. We see them taking a whole week of celebrations for a birthday, we see them at concerts, summer vacations are coming up, not that they shouldn't have fun, but with the fun comes the responsibility of a lot of work.

From all the postes on this thread demanding more work from the CP Couple, I get the impression, that those posters wants F and M to work more then the average dane. Why should they - after all - danes are among the people on this earth who has got the least working-hours during the week and the most holiydays during the year.

 

[Saphire]

We did?


You will never have an answer to that question because unless you spend every single minute of every single day with them there is no way for you to know how much they are actually doing when they are out of the camera's reach. You could, if you wanted, take Mary's word for it that they do work behind the scenes, that just because we don't see them doesn't mean they aren't involved or you could choose to believe that she is lying and does nothing but sit on her backside all day being waited on by an army of servants. I guess it all boils down to what your own personal opinion of the couple is.


I don't think I have ever seen any member here ever compare a royal to Mother Theresa, but there is nothing wrong in acknowledging the things they do for their country.

I also said that I don't know how much work they do behind closed doors. Just because I have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, it does not make it wrong.

 

[Amelia]

Just because I have an opinion that doesn't agree with yours, it does not make it wrong.

Where did I say your opinion was wrong? You expressed yours, I expressed mine. So please don't try to accuse me of something that is so obviously not true.

If you had paid attention you would have noticed that I said that I don't know how much work they do behind closed doors.

And? I never said that you did. I commented on the part of your post where you said the question is how much work are they actually doing.

The Diana-fans used to do that all the time...

A princess who lived a life of luxury to Mother Theresa Sometimes I just don't get people

 

[dee4855]

Give Mary some credit. She is at least trying to do some good. That is more than many do! The longer she is in the royal family the more she will find her way, and in which areas she wants to lend her name and time too. She has only been a royal for 4 years and is doing very well seeing she has two small children and just learning about her new home land. I can hear now she has all this "help". Yes, she does but it still means her time and efforts to pull it off. If you do not like what she does, or tries to do, there are many other CP families that may suit you better. There are some that would not be happy if she was out and about 5 days weekly working.

 

[Mandy]

Off-topic posts were moved to form a new thread called The Crown Prince Couple's Choice of Patronages. Please join the discussion there. Empty or baiting posts were deleted. This thread belongs to the Work Schedule discussion. All further disruptive posts will be deleted without notice.

Mandy
Danish Forum Moderator

 

[Muhler]

Frederik and Mary's workloads - How much do they actually work?

One of the things that are often discussed on this forum, as well as elsewhere, is how much M&F, - Frederik in particular - work.

Now DR1 has actually investigated the matter.
Så meget arbejder kronprins Frederik for sine 17,8 mio. - dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland
The result of that is to be shown in a documentary Tuesday 07. February.
However a summary has been published now.

In the period of 2010 there is documentation for Frederik having 136 days with official event/jobs/tasks and 140 days in 2011.
A normal Danish employee work on average 220-230 days, overtime is not counted.

There are however events which double as hobby as well as Frederik acting in an official capacity as a Crown Prince. One such thing is racing (boats).

In this article, office-work, meetings, briefings and so on are not included, only jobs where he is out in the public.

An additional article with more details will be published tomorrow.

Historian Lars Hovbakke Sørensen says in this article that in a sense Frederik is on the job 24/365, that M&F are getting an ever increasing amount of tasks and that some things can be seen as pleasure, rather than work. (I.e. racing, attending sports matches with Danish contestants and so on).

Frederik's apanage amounts to 17.8 million DKK of which 10 % are specifically earmarked for Mary.

- Finally! Let's get some figures on the table.

 

[commoner]

Please read carefully. It says 136 days with official tasks in 2010 and 140 days in 2011. Not 140 days in total.

 

[Muhler]

Please read carefully. It says 136 days with official tasks in 2010 and 140 days in 2011. Not 140 days in total.

Corrected, thanks.

 

[Princess BellyFlop]

Still couldn't it be a little higher? 136 or 140 on 365 minus 102 for the weekends is about half. So in theory the Crown Prince takes a full day to prepare for each event and does one event per day. My gold old Lilibet is better!

 

[olebabs]

I'm getting very tired of the whole debate surrounding M+F. First of all to compare work loads between the different CP couples is a mute discussion, since they all have varied functions in their respective countries. Secondly, who says they do not work besides the 140 official engagement publicized? And thirdly, to compare a Crown Prince with a reigning monarch, who to my knowlegde, don't have 4 small children to raise, i a bit redicules.

 

[iceflower]

__________________


As we already had a thread about the topic, all posts of the newly created thread have been moved into this one!

 

[T4phage]

I'm getting very tired of the whole debate surrounding M+F. First of all to compare work loads between the different CP couples is a mute discussion, since they all have varied functions in their respective countries. Secondly, who says they do not work besides the 140 official engagement publicized? And thirdly, to compare a Crown Prince with a reigning monarch, who to my knowlegde, don't have 4 small children to raise, i a bit redicules.

And who says that they do work besides their official engagements? This argument works both ways.

I have no issue with Mary's workload, she does very well for a Crown Princess of almost 8 years now, with 4 young children.

The issue is her husband. Considering how much taxpayer money he recieves and his position, he should be doing alot more and more serious events than he mostly does at this stage (I am not saying all events he does are fluffy but a lot of them are. He should be focusing on more than just sports).

It always irks me when even the slightest critique of F or M sets some people off and makes them very defensive. I am not saying I don't like the CP couple I really do and think they are wonderful. I just think Fred can and should do more.

 

[AnnaNotherThing]

I also think the lines are definitely blurred between official work and personal work related to the position...Mary's training and working out, is not really work, but she needs to do it and take time out to do it as an example to the childhood obesity organisation she is patron of...And same goes for shopping, she needs to shop to show she is supporting local Danish designers and has confidence in the Danish industry and economy...She supports many Danish-centric institutions by being a proactive mother and taking her children to places like Legoland and Tivoli...She creates and nutures economic and social networks and connections by inviting all of Denmark's movers and shakers to her 40th birthday party...

So if you look at all of those things as 'work' she actually works alot! At promoting Danish industry and the economy, tourism, PR for the institution of the monarchy...I think Mary, having a background in marketing and PR, knows this and that is why she does it...It might look like superficial, shallow fun, but I think alot of serious connections and business transactions are carried out in informal settings, like 40th birthday parties

And I am probably the last person to defend Mary and her perceived workload, but having conversations, promoting stuff indirectly (like theme parks) is all part of Mary's 'job description'...

 

[nwinther]

I have no issue with whatever workload the CP couple have, be is massive or slight.

But if you want to talk work, you first have to define it. When is something "work", when is it a "hobby", when is it outright relaxation?

Often I hear the sentence "he's worked really hard for his money" or something along those lines. If you look at, say bankers, how hard do they actually work for their obscene paychecks? Do they work harder than any given construction-worker with only a fraction of the bankers salary?

And when a UK businessman is sitting in Singapore Airport, waiting for his delayed plane for 6 hours - is that work or "time off". When he's on the plane back to London, is he at work?

When a foodcritic is eating out - or a movie critic is at the cinema, is he working? Sure, I'd like to eat that food and watch that movie in my free time. But does that constitute their efforts as a "hobby" or "work"?

Lot's of what the CP does is "attend". And it's often in a celebratory style with fancy clothes and meals included. What a life! And he just sits there! But what do we know actually takes place behind the scenes?

Saw one of the programmes on DRF, where Mary was going to something or other - she was actually preparing days in advance. What she's supposed to do, where to go, and - most of all - what to know and say.

And when she's - they're - "on", they're under such close scrutiny that nothing compares. Her choice of clothes, hair, shoes. Her manner, her mood, her speech her handshake.

Others might not consider getting your hair done as work - but in Marys function it's a chore, it's part of the job.

Sure, then they go on a lot of holidays - or travel a lot is perhaps a better description. But even then they aren't cut very much slack.

When all that is said and done, sure they could "work harder" - especially Frederik. I'm not sure if it would make a difference - but it could be done.

 

[olebabs]

T4Phage, what would you like him to do then? In contrast to England, Canada etc where a lot of support of the disadvantaged depends on private charities to raise money and where a member of the Royal family can lend his/hers support, is not relevant in Denmark in the same way, due to the fact that this is provided for by the government. Should he return to active duty in the Danish military? I'm not trying to provoke you, just want to hear yor opinon.

 

[Muhler]

Nwinter nails the issue here.

The definition of work can be very blurred.
In my eyes, if royals attend something, they are "on" and in the public glare. They can't, like the rest of us, wear a jogging suit and Mickey Mouse ears.

Being away on a business trip is also work as I see it, even when sitting in an airport or going to a karaoke bare with business associates. - It's still not time you can use for whatever you want to and you are away from your family and friends. - Some people love that and hurrah for that.
Others are fortunate enough to have a job that is also their hobby, but it's still a job, enabling them to get bread on the table.

I'd like to see the documentary tonight and to learn what the journalists define as work and what angle they are using before saying more.

 

[agami.pearl]

Compared to Mary, 'just' a consort, mother of four, Frederic looks really bad, for me he's not working enough. Soon he'll be a king and should take his role more seriously. Time to end light sport events, vacations, visits without any major goal. In comparison to Haakon, W-A or Felipe he seems to be rather 'work shy'. Victoria is still working even being close to give birth. His counterparts are attending worldwide events, economic missions, are watching how other organizations work (Guillaumne in Brussels). And still have time to rest and enjoy family lives. Hes' getting lot of money from state and enjoys new cars, luxury vacations. Maybe it's how DRF functions, but I don't believe that he won't work more. Yes, preparations to engagements need time, but he had staff to help him, he's not doing everything alone.
It' s just my opinion, rather unpopular at this forum.

 

[Muhler]

Here is the documentation DR1 will be using in the documentary tonight: http://www.dr.dk/NR/rdonlyres/893D7...H_K_H__Kronprinsens_officielle_deltagelse.pdf

It's based on the DRF's official calendar for 2010-2011.
And as far as I can tell from glancing down the pages is thatadminitsrative work and meeting and preparations are not included.
However periods where Frederik was Regent are included as work, - even though he may not have been out on public duties during those days.

http://politiken.dk/indland/ECE1531831/kronprinsen-har-100-arbejdsdage-faerre-end-danske-arbejdere/
Historian Jes Fabricius Møller explains in this article from Politiken that you cannot compare Frederik with an ordinary employee or manager. Partly because he is royal, but also because he is bsically on hold to start his real job. I.e. being king.
"You cannot call the tasks of the Crown Prince for work and you cannot call his apanage salary, because in that way you try to convert the use and function of the DRF into a cost benefit calculation, and you cannot do that".
Frederik basically has one task:
"He is waiting to become king. While he is waiting he can fill out the time with charity and work/tasks of general use (to the society), but it's not something you can compare to working for a salary.
The Royal Family is very dependant on the public backing and there is no doubt that the Danes value hard work very much.
The DRF has to be aware of that".

Historian Lars Hovbakke Sørensen says: "As soon as he steps outside the mansion, he is in principle at work. Even though they may seem to have a cosy time and live a luxurious life, it is in reality an extremely demanding line of work, because they are constantly being scrutinized".

 

[NGalitzine]

I guess it all depends on what work the Danish people and state want the Crown Princely couple to do. Do they want their royals to become involved with international NGOs and world economic forums or do they want to restrict their patronages to domestic charitable/ cultural organizations for which they would undertake engagements at home and then also undertake official visits abroad as requested by the government. Was it not semi controoversial when Frederik joined the IOC? Each nation takes a different approach to the work they want their royals to do and the types of organizations their royals can be involved with.

 

[agami.pearl]

Yes, Frederik joined IOC (he really wanted it) but now we found out that he's not working enough with this organization. So why he's trying so far to be a member (and caused a controversy) if now he doesn't have time to attend a meetings?

 

[Nordic]

Sure, then they go on a lot of holidays - or travel a lot is perhaps a better description. But even then they aren't cut very much slack.

Do they have lots of holidays?! They have their summer holiday, one week in the autumn when the kids have their holiday. (Not this year) One week for skiing etc.

 

[gerry]

Here is the documentation DR1 will be using in the documentary tonight: http://www.dr.dk/NR/rdonlyres/893D7...H_K_H__Kronprinsens_officielle_deltagelse.pdf

It's based on the DRF's official calendar for 2010-2011.
And as far as I can tell from glancing down the pages is thatadminitsrative work and meeting and preparations are not included.
However periods where Frederik was Regent are included as work, - even though he may not have been out on public duties during those days.

Kronprinsen har 100 arbejdsdage færre end danske arbejdere - Politiken.dk
Historian Jes Fabricius Møller explains in this article from Politiken that you cannot compare Frederik with an ordinary employee or manager. Partly because he is royal, but also because he is bsically on hold to start his real job. I.e. being king.
"You cannot call the tasks of the Crown Prince for work and you cannot call his apanage salary, because in that way you try to convert the use and function of the DRF into a cost benefit calculation, and you cannot do that".
Frederik basically has one task:
"He is waiting to become king. While he is waiting he can fill out the time with charity and work/tasks of general use (to the society), but it's not something you can compare to working for a salary.
The Royal Family is very dependant on the public backing and there is no doubt that the Danes value hard work very much.
The DRF has to be aware of that".

Historian Lars Hovbakke Sørensen says: "As soon as he steps outside the mansion, he is in principle at work. Even though they may seem to have a cosy time and live a luxurious life, it is in reality an extremely demanding line of work, because they are constantly being scrutinized".

It seems to me that the debate on how much work the Crown Prince Couple actually does is in itself part of the problem they must face in justifying their existence beyond the ''waiting'' that Muhler notes here. Indeed, comparisons with other Crown Princes are difficult, because each has individual circumstances and interests. The British Crown Prince is famously a successful entrepreneur to support his many charities. The Norwegian couple appear at Davos to talk about global leadership... the list continues. Perhaps the Danish crown prince has need of one issue that he can concentrate on that will ''brand'' him as the prince who does whatever that choice might be; yet no doubt such a choice will prove controversial as other issues may be just as needy of his attention. In other words, royals never win, whatever they do. As Prince Charles once famously said, I could just go skiing and be done with it! I do hope Muhler will tell us about the documentary, and perhaps we outside Denmark might even be able to see it!

 

[T4phage]

T4Phage, what would you like him to do then? In contrast to England, Canada etc where a lot of support of the disadvantaged depends on private charities to raise money and where a member of the Royal family can lend his/hers support, is not relevant in Denmark in the same way, due to the fact that this is provided for by the government. Should he return to active duty in the Danish military? I'm not trying to provoke you, just want to hear yor opinon.

I would like him to do more than simply showing up to a sporting match, watching it, perhaps handing out an award or posing with the players and then calling it work. You can defend this any way you want, but it is not work. It is a hobby sold as work. I am not saying he can't do these sorts of events at all, but there should be work of more substance in between.

Personally, I would like to see him do more events like the Crown Princess does. And of course, some of you will say but if he does that, then what is left for the Crown Princess? Well, the rest of the royals manage. There is a lot more Frederik can do than sell off his hobby in sports as work.

He does good work when he represents Denmark abroad and in my opinion, he should be doing more events like that both in Denmark and abroad. The Norwegian CP couple have an area they like to focus on and are passionate about it. Frederik is passionate about sport....and yet the IOC and DIF say that Frederik barely shows up to meetings and the DIF themselves stated they expected more. Isn't this something he wanted so very much? So why isn't he doing the required work? No one is asking him to go all out, but at least do the required amount of work to show he IS doing something.

I know that not everyone will agree with my point of view, but it is my point of view and I felt that I am able to voice since this is the topic at hand.

Compared to Mary, 'just' a consort, mother of four, Frederic looks really bad, for me he's not working enough. Soon he'll be a king and should take his role more seriously. Time to end light sport events, vacations, visits without any major goal. In comparison to Haakon, W-A or Felipe he seems to be rather 'work shy'. Victoria is still working even being close to give birth. His counterparts are attending worldwide events, economic missions, are watching how other organizations work (Guillaumne in Brussels). And still have time to rest and enjoy family lives. Hes' getting lot of money from state and enjoys new cars, luxury vacations. Maybe it's how DRF functions, but I don't believe that he won't work more. Yes, preparations to engagements need time, but he had staff to help him, he's not doing everything alone.
It' s just my opinion, rather unpopular at this forum.

Thank you! This is what I have been saying for so long! But this point of view is always met with "you can't compare the DRF with other RF's". Right....So is there something different about the DRF that prevents their CP from taking on similar worldwide events and great causes as his other counterparts have?

 

[camelot23ca]

I think the obvious points of comparison to Frederik would not be royals in other countries, but rather Queen Margrethe and, especially, Crown Princess Mary. IMO, at this stage in their lives, Frederik shouldn't be doing significantly less work than his mother. Yes, he's in a holding pattern waiting for his "real job" of King to start, but surely it would be better to ramp up to the duties of a monarch over time than to have to go from zero to sixty immediately on the death of his mother. In all fairness, Frederik does seem to be doing this, albeit more slowly than some would evidently prefer.

The most valid comparison to make, IMO, is to Mary. Mary may be just the consort but for all practical intents and purposes she and Frederik are in the same situation. They represent the same country, they're around the same age, they're working from the same overall financial pool and, obviously, have the same family day to day issues with the children, etc. Does Mary do more events than Frederik? Because to me that would be hard to defend, especially given the fact that Mary's been pregnant or post partum for a significant portion of time since she got married. If I had to guess I'd say Mary is in fact busier than Frederik, but I don't know if the numbers bear this out.

 

[Muhler]

Okay, the segment about Frederik has just ended.

The DR1 programme Detektor, deal with various claims in the public debate recently and then double-check and veryfy these claims. - Often to the very considerable embarrassment of various columnists, editors and journalists.

This was basically a response to a debate started by another DR1 journalist named Koplev. (I wrote a summary about that about a month or so ago). In there he claimed that Frederik really only work for 40 days a year. (A claim initially started by the republican tabloid Ekstra Bladet).

The jounalists at Detektor went to the court and were handed out Frederik's official calendars for 2010 and 2011.
They counted the number of events he took part in, in Denmark and abroad, and those two figures. Then they added the days where he was Regent. And reached the figures 136 and 140 days respectively.

Detektor did not go into details about what is considered genuine work, what can best be described as a hobby and what is a mix of work and pleasure. - That is simply another debate.
Nor could they answer how much time Frederik is using on administrative work, briefings, writing speeches, preparations and so on.

They wanted to question Koplev about his claims, but he declined with the words: "You may be right. - So what"? 136 and 140 days of (official) work did not impress Koplev.

-------------

In short: Not much new, except that the 40 days claimed by Koplev, by any standard is a laughable claim. - Personally I don't care about Koplev and whatever agenda he may have, if he as a journalist can't do his work proberly, he is of no significanse.

So, it's basically down to how much each of us think is appropriate.
Well, I fully expect to see Frederik take on considerable more tasks in the next few years, as his mother is getting older and de facto retire. (Something she has earned). Frederik is in his prime, he is well prepared and he has (I believe) had the children he will have, it's time to start shifting from focusing primarily on his small children, which is very understandable, to focus more on his role as the day-to-day regent.

I also hope he will spread his field of interest more. His work abroad is fine, I have no problem with that.
It would however be a good idea, not least for Frederik's image, if he took on a wider field of interest. Sport and health is fine, but the danger is that sport is not really considered serious work. It can be compared to the initial critisism of Mary, on only being interested in fashion (which is big business by the way). He has expressed an interest for the environment. Good, let him focus more on that, let him focus more on alternative energy (there is big money in that too), on conservation.
There are plenty of opportunities, grab them.

DK is a country of 5.4 million. Covered by six adult members of the DRF (not counting Benedikte) it's a balancing act.
If the DRF is here, there and everywhere all the time, the novelty, the mystique and the news worthyness will deminish.
That doesn't mean that Frederik can't and shouldn't be seen being committed in something, like the environment. He doesn't have to say anything or do much, just showing interest and being present would help a lot, I think.

 

[Naggi]

I think what Frederik is missing is "business profile". What do we know about him? He loves Mary, his children and sports? Well, for the average person this is the description of "private" person. We want him to be involved in business or at least social matters which seems to lack.

There is one thing I don't understand: The discussion of the Crown Prince Frederik not working enough is an everlasting one and I am sure the Royal House is aware of this. But so far the Royal Family doesn't seem to even try to change the public picture of Frederic. Is it because they think the Crown Prince does enough or because they don't care or because they may have not realised it? I for my opinion think that Frederic doesn't seem to care much. I think he is quite good looking - though my everlasting favorite will be Hakoon ) but good looks alone does not take you to save harbour. You have to know how to paddle as well

 

[NGalitzine]

I think what Frederik should or should not be doing is a debate best left to the Danes.

 

[Princess BellyFlop]

Well this is a royal forum covering the entire world. What is next: you and I as Canadian citizens should stick to Queen Elizabeth II and not talk/write too much about it because she's also queen of England and lives there and not here? NO, Danes might be interested to known that people outside their country find their Crown Prince kinda cute, kinda fun-loving but kinda light on the work side and that we wonder what moves him, what are his goals and values as they most probably would reflect on the ones of his people.