Four years down the track; Is Mary OK now?

[Madame Royale]

A lot of people in Germany don´t know them, but a lot of do.

What a good way of looking at it

 

[donnaK]

Ok, so I can do without the title and just add the country and search only in german language. Does not change anything. Victoria and Mary still on top and Mette-Marit in the bottum.

What now ?

Are you going to say that mentioning the very country in which they are princesses distort the result ??

Elizabeth Grossbritannien - google hits 1.160.000
Mary Dänemark - google hits 463.000
Victoria Sweden - google hits 291.000
Maxima Niederland - google hits 70.000
Letizia Spanien - google hits 37.400
Mette-Marit Norwegen - google hits 10.500

I am not biased. I just happen to know quite a bit about Germany, as well as speak the language, and I know what you write is not true. Remember. You started out saying that no one would recognize any of them, and that they could stroll on the street of Berlin unrecognized. No one would care.

I just happen to know, you do not know what you are alking about in this matter.

There are many ways you can goggle, those stats don't give a complete picture. 'Letiza' or 'Mette-Marit' alone can already give you lots of infos on these two women, thus I believe those are the ways lots of people google on 'Letizia' or 'Mette-Marit' just like me, on the other hand, more common names like 'Mary' or 'Victoria' or 'Elizabeth' doesn't, so people probably will have to add a title or a country, that might boost up the number of hits on your lists. You just don't know how people will google.
I have many German colleagues and travelled to Berlin too, they just don't recognize them. In general, people don't care about them in the streets of Berlin. If you want to pick on words such as 'nobody' vs. 'in general', well I can't help. Right, maybe a few out of hundreds out of the Berlin streets would care about those royals .

 

[princess olga]

I like the nose-up-in-the-air approach for princesses.

You are quite right that there is something to be said for looking the part, as in, regal.

As to the education, if its something Mary enjoys and does well, it would be lovely, but as a lover of learning and books and knowledgeable discussion, nothing irritates me more than someone getting involved in learned pursuits just because they're trying to get a more serious, responsible image. If you're going to take education seriously, get involved and put some passion behind it but if not, its best to do something that fills your passion.

Not everyone has to be super-learned.

Actually I wasn't talking about formal education, sorry if I didn't express myself well. By intellectually I meant, going into these charities with something of a vision like Maxima does when she takes on a charity. One way she participates is contribute to the intellectual debate if you will, by contributing ideas, suggestions, comments. Maxima does that very well, without straying from the narrow box she is legally pushed into, as in the Netherlands, the royals aren't really supposed to be partisan about anything.

As for Mary, she does take on charities and does have opinions on them but it seems to me she's always staying within the utterly politically correct frame of mind of the day, she doesn't stick her neck out intellectually like Maxima does. Which renders Mary abit boring actually. But this may well change once she's not watched like a hawk by those intimidating inlaws of hers anymore.

 

[Madame Royale]

But she is not Maxima and if that makes her boring (on whatever level) to you, then thats certainly fine, by all means

...intimidating inlaws...

And in what way can you justify her in-laws as being "intimidating"? How could you, or I or anyone possily claim that to her (which is largely what is insinuated when claiming she is, infact, being watched like a hawk by her husbands parents), her in-laws are "intimidating"?

 

[MargreteI]

There are many ways you can goggle, those stats don't give a complete picture. 'Letiza' or 'Mette-Marit' alone can already give you lots of infos on these two women, thus I believe those are the ways lots of people google on 'Letizia' or 'Mette-Marit' just like me, on the other hand, more common names like 'Mary' or 'Victoria' or 'Elizabeth' doesn't, so people probably will have to add a title or a country, that might boost up the number of hits on your lists. You just don't know how people will google.
I have many German colleagues and travelled to Berlin too, they just don't recognize them. In general, people don't care about them in the streets of Berlin. If you want to pick on words such as 'nobody' vs. 'in general', well I can't help. Right, maybe a few out of hundreds out of the Berlin streets would care about the royals .

Yes, there are many ways you can google. Great argument for rejecting a result that came up the same, twice in two different searches, and which strenghtens the validity of both the searches.

Bottum line is that Mette Marit is not that known in Germany and Victoria and Mary are quite known. You wrote Mette-Marit is a frontrunner in the tabloids and the evidence is clearly that she is not.

Mette-Marit is famous in all of Scandinavia, but not in Germany.

 

[Australian]

Princess Olga
Actually I wasn't talking about formal education, sorry if I didn't express myself well. By intellectually I meant, going into these charities with something of a vision like Maxima does when she takes on a charity. One way she participates is contribute to the intellectual debate if you will, by contributing ideas, suggestions, comments. Maxima does that very well, without straying from the narrow box she is legally pushed into, as in the Netherlands, the royals aren't really supposed to be partisan about anything.

As for Mary, she does take on charities and does have opinions on them but it seems to me she's always staying within the utterly politically correct frame of mind of the day, she doesn't stick her neck out intellectually like Maxima does. Which renders Mary abit boring actually. But this may well change once she's not watched like a hawk by those intimidating inlaws of hers anymore.

Princess Olga,

Maxima has had more time than Mary to get used to her charities and as a result has probably built up more confidence to give her opinions and suggestions. I'm sure Mary will do the same once she has been a princess as long as Maxima. Ok, granted that Mary has been a princess for some years now, but maybe that is just her style, not showing off with everything she knows. I mean, nobody likes a showoff! (im not saying Maxima is by any means) What sort of opinions and suggestions has she made with her charities? I'm just looking for an example.

 

[donnaK]

Yes, there are many ways you can google. Great argument for rejecting a result that came up the same, twice in two different searches, and which strenghtens the validity of both the searches.

I think I already explained quite clearly in my previous post. Your two results only validates these two ways of searches, but it doesn't tell the whole picture on which person gets the most hits, which you might never know actually based on the existing features.
'Mary' or 'Victoria' alone doesn't give much since these two names are too common, on the other hand, 'Mette-Marit' or 'Letizia' already works for lots of people, that's the way I usually google too on these two women.
I think I already said enough on 'searches'.

Bottum line is that Mette Marit is not that known in Germany and Victoria and Mary are quite known. You wrote Mette-Marit is a frontrunner in the tabloids and the evidence is clearly that she is not.

We can only agree to disagree here.

 

[ysbel]

As for Mary, she does take on charities and does have opinions on them but it seems to me she's always staying within the utterly politically correct frame of mind of the day, she doesn't stick her neck out intellectually like Maxima does. Which renders Mary abit boring actually. But this may well change once she's not watched like a hawk by those intimidating inlaws of hers anymore.

OK, thanks for explaining, princess olga. Now I see what you mean.

Actually since I've read up on Mary and read up on some of her biographies, I get the sense that Mary is following her 'passion' so to speak but its not that apparent.

Her background, advertising, is known for taking someone else's message and makes it friendly to the masses. I see Mary's role similarly - as taking the image of the DRF as a very traditional but very urbane representative of Denmark and simply promoting that image very well. In one sense, I think she's doing with the DRF what she did in the advertising world with her client's products.

Advertising isn't very groundbreaking and neither is Mary. I think she's taking a message that we've all heard and seen before and just doing it better. You can say its very superficial; and I'd agree to a certain extent that you'd be right, but I think it works very well with this family and this monarchy.

BTW, I could definitely see Queen Margrethe as intimidating; she'd scare the dickens out of me but I don't see Margrethe as the reason that Mary sticks to the politically correct views! I just think Mary's background in advertising indicates a more conventional yet appealing personality.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Maybe Mary chooses not to throw her opinions out there. Maxima does, and that's great for her but Maxima is not Mary and Mary should not be expected to be like Maxima.

It doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with her in-laws and their supposed "intimidation tactics".

 

[ricarda]

By intellectually I meant, going into these charities with something of a vision like Maxima does when she takes on a charity. One way she participates is contribute to the intellectual debate if you will, by contributing ideas, suggestions, comments. Maxima does that very well, without straying from the narrow box she is legally pushed into, as in the Netherlands, the royals aren't really supposed to be partisan about anything.

As for Mary, she does take on charities and does have opinions on them but it seems to me she's always staying within the utterly politically correct frame of mind of the day, she doesn't stick her neck out intellectually like Maxima does. Which renders Mary abit boring actually. But this may well change once she's not watched like a hawk by those intimidating inlaws of hers anymore.

Maxima is involved with microcredit and integration of foreign women AFAIK, at least those are her most outstanding engagements.
Now, can you tell me what is there that is not in the politically correct frame of mind of the day?
Those topics may be controversial but they are politically correct and
they have already been around before Maxima.
So what vision did Maxima actually contribute?
She is promoting a UN project. She has her own opinion about it.
But in what way does she stick her neck out intellectually?
You make it sound as if she is taking any risks. She is not.

And how do you know Mary didn't have a vision when she took on the topics physical and mental health, healthy lifestyle, obesity, anti-bullying, research....?
Next time she is attending a WHO conference and gives a speech about obesity for example I will call her a visionary too.

I personally think it's the main task for a crownprincess to highlight and promote various topics
and Mary has done that for many organizations and topics.
(I personally find the topics she is engaged with more interesting than e.g. microcredit.)
And Mary is a crownprincess for not even 3 years now.
What has Maxima achieved in the same time?

 

[Australian]

ricarda, that's what I think too. I would like some examples of how Maxima has 'stuck her neck out intellectually'. I'm trying to do some research but can't find anything outstanding.

 

[eireann]

OK, thanks for explaining, princess olga. Now I see what you mean.

Actually since I've read up on Mary and read up on some of her biographies, I get the sense that Mary is following her 'passion' so to speak but its not that apparent.

Her background, advertising, is known for taking someone else's message and makes it friendly to the masses. I see Mary's role similarly - as taking the image of the DRF as a very traditional but very urbane representative of Denmark and simply promoting that image very well. In one sense, I think she's doing with the DRF what she did in the advertising world with her client's products.

Advertising isn't very groundbreaking and neither is Mary. I think she's taking a message that we've all heard and seen before and just doing it better. You can say its very superficial; and I'd agree to a certain extent that you'd be right, but I think it works very well with this family and this monarchy.

BTW, I could definitely see Queen Margrethe as intimidating; she'd scare the dickens out of me but I don't see Margrethe as the reason that Mary sticks to the politically correct views! I just think Mary's background in advertising indicates a more conventional yet appealing personality.

I think this is a good point actually - Maxima was involved in finance before she got married, right? So Microcredit is probaby something she understands very well and is interested in. If Mary´s background is in Advertising then she´s using her skills in this area to promote her charities and that makes her work interesting for her. To put in another context how many of us here on the forums from outside Denmark are more aware of Danish organisations or specific interests of international organisations since Mary came on the scene??

 

[ricarda]

Average German knows nothing about Mary except for royal watchers (like I said before). I showed her pictures also other CPsses pictures to some of my German colleagues, except for Camilla, nobody recognized the rest of the CPsses. They can all walk down the streets of Berlin, nobody would care.

Well, as I said in my post not all Germans are interested
(just as not all Australians, Danes, Scandinavians... are)
but the media definitely is and therefore I don't believe that
many Germans don't know about the crownprincesses.
The 100 mio. were of course a joke and just a response to your comment that only 25 mio. know Mary.

Actually, and here I have to contradict MargretheI, when it comes to tabloids in Germany
all the current crownprincesses except Mathilde are on the covers every now and then.
And Mette-Marit was nr. 1 for quite a long time but it seems to me nowadays, with all the others around,
the tabloids have lost a great deal of their interest in her (which isn't a bad thing IMO)
Camilla is of course well known, due to all those scandals, but she isn't that much of a covergirl
and I doubt many Germans care more about her than about any of the others.
There is a difference between knowing a person and caring for her.

And when it comes to reports on TV Mary is certainly on the forefront.
She has been to Germany twice and there was an enormous media interest and coverage.
Also, all those entertainment/society/latest news programmes on TV, like "explosiv", "Leute heute", "hallo deutschland"
frequently mention her, much more than any of the others
Therefore I really think she must be one of the best known princesses in Germany nowadays.
Not everyone reads tabloids but most Germans watch TV.
And as I said, there hardly were any reports about the DRF before.
(They are not like the British RF which is well known in any case.)

 

[Marengo]

Maxima is involved with microcredit and integration of foreign women AFAIK, at least those are her most outstanding engagements.
Now, can you tell me what is there that is not in the politically correct frame of mind of the day?
Those topics may be controversial but they are politically correct and
they have already been around before Maxima.
So what vision did Maxima actually contribute?
She is promoting a UN project. She has her own opinion about it.
But in what way does she stick her neck out intellectually?
You make it sound as if she is taking any risks. She is not.

And how do you know Mary didn't have a vision when she took on the topics physical and mental health, healthy lifestyle, obesity, anti-bullying, research....?
Next time she is attending a WHO conference and gives a speech about obesity for example I will call her a visionary too.

I personally think it's the main task for a crownprincess to highlight and promote various topics
and Mary has done that for many organizations and topics.
(I personally find the topics she is engaged with more interesting than e.g. microcredit.)
And Mary is a crownprincess for not even 3 years now.
What has Maxima achieved in the same time?

Though I do not feel like participating in Maxima/ Princess X vs Mary comparisons (as I like all royal ladies and they all have there OWN qualities and fields of interest), but I feel I have to make some corrections here.

The commission PAVEM where Maxima was a member of (for integration of imigrant women) was politically sensitive indeed. That is why the Princess was taken of the commission as soon as possible by the goverment. Now the Princess wants to become involved in a task force that adresses unemployment amongst youngsters, but the goverment wants to discuss that first to, as the advice that such a taskforce gives can collide with the goverment policies to.

After 3 years of marriage Princess Maxima already was involved with the commission PAVEM and with other charities. She was also invested as a member of the Counsil of State and as a member of the committee of the Prince Claus science chair. She also was in the board of the Orange Foundation and was actively involved in visiting and selecting projects. Maxima was also involved with a high number of other activities of course, but the above topics received more attention. Apart from that Maxima and her husband usually joined the Queen for outgoing and incoming state visits to.

I understand that some feeel the need of 'defending' or 'promoting' Mary here but I hate it if people do that at the expense of other royal ladies, especially if information is used in a way that doesn't seem fair/truthfull.

 

[ysbel]

I think this is a good point actually - Maxima was involved in finance before she got married, right? So Microcredit is probaby something she understands very well and is interested in. If Mary´s background is in Advertising then she´s using her skills in this area to promote her charities and that makes her work interesting for her. To put in another context how many of us here on the forums from outside Denmark are more aware of Danish organisations or specific interests of international organisations since Mary came on the scene??

Yes, I think Maxima was an investment banker so her interest in Microedit does seem natural.

I'd agree with Marengo though that the governments are not going to let the crown princesses get into topics that are too politically sensitive; whether the Netherlands is holding back Maxima or Denmark holding back Mary. It could be a disappointment for a knowledgeable and capable crown princess who could otherwise do a good job in the role but whose position in the monarchy makes the situation impossible.

But that's one condition they accepted when they took on the position as future consort of a figurehead monarch.

 

[lisamaria]

Yesterday, Mary accepted a donation of 1,16 million DKKr for the Children's Aid Foundation; the money will help foster children. She gave a rather nice speech and just generally did it well. But the biggest news?

She has cut her hair shorter.

The way she comes across in the media isn't necessarily her fault. It just might have something to do with all those people who are more interested in her haircut and other things like that than they are in what she says or does.

And the cut doens't even suit her

 

[ricarda]

I understand that some feeel the need of 'defending' or 'promoting' Mary here but I hate it if people do that at the expense of other royal ladies, especially if information is used in a way that doesn't seem fair/truthfull.....

Sorry, in what way did I use information that doesn't seem truthfull?
I was merely responding to a post in which Maxima's achievements were overpraised and Mary's belittled.
Maxima, the visionary, Mary, the boring princess who sticks to the rules.
I merely mentioned Maxima's two most outstanding engagements
and you yourself confirmed that those were the topics that got the most attention.
And I said that these topics are not Maxima's vision but have been there before her.
It was not about how many topics she is involved with
but about the awareness and political correctness of these topics and Maxima's contribution to them.
In my eyes Maxima is an intelligent woman and a good promoter but not a visionary
and she does not "stick her neck out intellectually", as someone claimed.

I do not feel the need of promoting Mary and since I like both ladies
I also don't want to get involved in a princesses comparison.
Therefore I have never been to a Maxima thread and compared her with Mary.
But it seems to me that some feel the need to constantly promote Maxima in this thread at the expense of Mary.

The commission PAVEM where Maxima was a member of (for integration of imigrant women) was politically sensitive indeed. That is why the Princess was taken of the commission as soon as possible by the goverment. Now the Princess wants to become involved in a task force that adresses unemployment amongst youngsters, but the goverment wants to discuss that first to, as the advice that such a taskforce gives can collide with the goverment policies to.

As I said, those are controversial or sensitive topics but not politically uncorrect and not exactly new frontiers.
And your post actually shows that Maxima has to stick to the rules too and to accept decisions of others.

After 3 years of marriage Princess Maxima already was involved with the commission PAVEM and with other charities. She was also invested as a member of the Counsil of State and as a member of the committee of the Prince Claus science chair. She also was in the board of the Orange Foundation and was actively involved in visiting and selecting projects. Maxima was also involved with a high number of other activities of course, but the above topics received more attention. Apart from that Maxima and her husband usually joined the Queen for outgoing and incoming state visits to.

I did not want to give the impression that Maxima hasn't done anything
and I am sorry if you understood it that way.
I just wanted to point out that if I really do compare those two ladies
I find that Maxima in her first 3 years as a cp was in no way more impressive
than Mary in her first 3 years as a cp.

 

[Madame Royale]

And the cut doens't even suit her

Perhaps you don't think so but I would agree that the way she is portrayed (in the media) is out of her control. I think some forget that.

 

[Australian]

I understand that some feeel the need of 'defending' or 'promoting' Mary here but I hate it if people do that at the expense of other royal ladies, especially if information is used in a way that doesn't seem fair/truthfull.

Hi Marengo
Initially, it was at Mary's expense. It started of as someone stating Mary isn't as involved as Maxima and was making comparisons against the two women. I think that was unfair. So when Mary was defended, it was at Maxima's expense. It worked both ways.
For what it's worth, i think they are both top women.

 

[Mandy]

Closed for Moderator assessment.