Discussion About Frederik and Mary's Prenuptial Agreement

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Lasse Pedersen

In my mind, there is no doubt that HRH Crown Princess Mary would remain Princess of Denmark in the event of a divorce, just as HH Princess Alexandra has remained one. Moreover, she would probably also be granted a title of countess. However, I wonder if she would maintain her title as Royal Highness!

But again, let's hope we'll never find out!

/Lasse

Thanks Lasse.

But again, let's hope we'll never find out!

And I'm sure we shall not

[Sereta]

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Mary will have a better situation than Alexandra since she'll get to stay in one of the palaces, not just a house somewhere. She'll still be part of the royal family and the state will provide her with funds to live nicely on. Whatever they did for Alexandra, they'll do even better for Mary as the mother of the heir. And I think she'll probably get a better title than just Countess of something.

The person I'd be concerned with is Joachim's future 2nd wife (if he re-marries). If they divorce he won't have much to give her thanks to Alexandra wiping him out.
What if he's married to wife #2 for ten years and they have 2 (or more) kids as well but she ends up with a worse deal than Alexandra just because she came after her. It doesn't seem fair.
And I don't see why the state can't reduce Alex's appanage according to how many duties she performs.

[Tricota]

Originally Posted by Sereta

And I don't see why the state can't reduce Alex's appanage according to how many duties she performs.

Of couse they can. Just as they can with the normal apanage for the rest of the family. But its not just something that will happen over night. It will take a number of years, even if she does not work that much. And perhaps also a public pressure from the people. And even so, there is the question of weather we really want the mother of prince Felix and Nicolaj to actually work for a living, in a private company?

[Fashionista100]

Boy, times change. I remember when Alex could do no wrong and everyone thought Mary was the "golddigger." I don't think Alex took advantage of Joachim at all. First off, they both had lawyers. If his lawyer had half a brain he would have told him to put in monetary amounts. Joachim knew Alex could pick any house she wants. Two, Joachim is not destitute b/c of the divorce. Three, Alex still works, she has worked long and hard for Denmark. If she wants to take it slow for a year or two to recoup, so be it. Her own home is not overly extravagant. It had to be remolded and furnished. Security needed to be upgraded for her and the children. There are very few places they could have gone. She needed a place in the capitol for work. She is very involved in her charities. Now is Mary's time and Alex is stepping aside for the time being and taking care of herself. She's earned it. No one worked as hard as Alex for Denmark for years after she came on the scene. Alex wouldn't take advantage of Denmark and Denmark wouldn't leave Alex in the cold.

[LadyK]

I don't think we have anything to worry about. Mary and Fred aren't going anywhere- they are best friends and lovers, as well as partners in work and life.

Mary will always be provided for, as she is the mother of the heir. I tend to think of her like Princess Diana (although happier), with her many charities and her obvious popularity, (as well as her fashion ). She will always be in the public eye, will continue to attend gala events, and work with charities and her patronages, and have other appearances. She will always have a place in Danish society and in the hearts of Danes and Aussies, and royal-watchers everywhere. She will get plenty of money, security, and a home befitting Prince Christian, as heir to the throne, and Prince/Princess X. She will never live in a shack, but I don't think she'll live in Amalianborg or Fredensborg or the other main palace, but she will live in a palace. The Danes have enough to share.

[H.M. Margrethe]

Originally Posted by MargreteI

Should she divorce they would most likely put her up in Sorgenfri Castle which has been vacant since late 90's and also suitable for the mother of the heir.

Besides I doubt we will have any statements from the Royal Family whatsoever regarding this matter. Total silence is more likely.

I don´t think that Mary woud have Sorgenfri Castle as home if they ever split (i honestly don´t ever hope that it will happen).
The reason for her not living in Sorgenfri Castle is that it is alredy occupied by Frederiks second cusin Count Christian and his wife countess AnneDorthe.
They are living in the carstle and i don´t think i woud be nice for either Mary or them to see eathother..

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Fashionista100

and everyone thought Mary was the "golddigger."

I don't remember this to be honest

[Toledo]

I don't think we have to worry about Mary and Frederick getting a divorce...ever. Their circumstances are quite different when compared with other royal and/or princely couples. Seems so far that both are doing a good job handling work, family, the in-laws on both sides and the ever present army of paparazzis. They have a coolness like no other couple we discuss here. I think of a Brad and Angelina jet set style would come close to describe their looks and style. She reminds me so much of a vintage Emma Peel (from the TV series The Avengers).

[Tricota]

Originally Posted by H.M. Margrethe

I don´t think that Mary woud have Sorgenfri Castle as home if they ever split (i honestly don´t ever hope that it will happen).
The reason for her not living in Sorgenfri Castle is that it is alredy occupied by Frederiks second cusin Count Christian and his wife countess AnneDorthe.
They are living in the carstle and i don´t think i woud be nice for either Mary or them to see eathother..

Thats true. However they dont live in the actual house. They live in a side wing seperate from the house called Damefløjen, "ladies wing". So I guess it could happen. Or perhaps Count Christian could be moved to one of the apartments at Amalienborg. I still hope they will in time use one of the buildings at Amalienborg only for apartments. But I guess it is a money thing.

There was actually talk about Alexandra living there, but from the few articles I read about, noone was really that happy about the idea.

Also, I understand from Niels Peter Stilling's book about the Danish Royal Palaces, there is still a great deal of renovation needed. Only the exterior has so far been dealt with, where as the interior still stands untouched from when Princess Caroline Mathilde died in 1995. The last renovation of the interior was, again acording to the book, in 1950.

But I imagen a further renovation will happen, and it is planed as being part of the royal families houses. But for whom is still unsure.

[Her_Majesty]

I just heard something about the new marriage contract Mary had to sighn.
It sound really strict...
In a case of a divorce Mary wouldn't get a single penny and no support. Neither she would get immovables. She also would lose the custody for the 2 children...
Mary sighned the contract...
I wonder why they made a new one. maybe because Mary has been very extravagant the last months?

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Her_Majesty

I just heard something about the new marriage contract Mary had to sighn.
It sound really strict...
In a case of a divorce Mary wouldn't get a single penny and no support. Neither she would get immovables. She also would lose the custody for the 2 children...
Mary sighned the contract...
I wonder why they made a new one. maybe because Mary has been very extravagant the last months?

There is a whole tread about this and no, your information is not correct: of course Mary will be well cared fro in case of a divorce.

<Removed comments in German/Mandy>

[Her_Majesty]

Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine

There is a whole tread about this and no, your information is not correct: of course Mary will be well cared fro in case of a divorce.

Oh i didn't see that thread. Thanks for telling me.
I just wrote what RTL told me: so sorry if their information wasn't all right.

<Removed comments in German/Mandy>

[auntie]

If you think of it, all the Jewells that Mary received which were inherited from Queen Ingrid and MII are fabulous and worthy for a CPrincess, but take a look at her Diamond engagement ring, the center stone was 2ct, big deal, alot of people I know have that size diamond (good Quality) w/o being engaged to a Cprince, (I think even Alex's ring was 2.5 ct) her wedding Tiara, is nothing to talk about, very poor in the way of diamonds, Now I understand, they don't have all that money to their disposal. (unlike the Duke of Cornwall for instance!)

[Sister Morphine]

Originally Posted by auntie

If you think of it, all the Jewells that Mary received which were inherited from Queen Ingrid and MII are fabulous and worthy for a CPrincess, but take a look at her Diamond engagement ring, the center stone was 2ct, big deal, alot of people I know have that size diamond (good Quality) w/o being engaged to a Cprince, (I think even Alex's ring was 2.5 ct) her wedding Tiara, is nothing to talk about, very poor in the way of diamonds, Now I understand, they don't have all that money to their disposal. (unlike the Duke of Cornwall for instance!)

I don't know, maybe Mary isn't the ostentatious jewelery kind of gal. It might not have anything to do with funds or the lack thereof, and more to do with the fact that just because she's CPss, doesn't mean she needs to have ginormous jewels stuck all over her all the time. She's always looked regal and tasteful with what she does have, so why change that?

And not everyone can get a 2ct. engagement ring. A 2ct. engagement ring with a decent stone in it is pricey. Just because YOU know people with that kind of ice, doesn't mean everyone else has access to it. Maybe she wanted something small and tasteful and not huge and gaudy. If that was me, I'd want the same thing. Some giant doorknob of a diamond would make me feel uneasy.

[Madame Royale]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

I don't know, maybe Mary isn't the ostentatious jewelery kind of gal. It might not have anything to do with funds or the lack thereof, and more to do with the fact that just because she's CPss, doesn't mean she needs to have ginormous jewels stuck all over her all the time. She's always looked regal and tasteful with what she does have...

I have a feeling that you are right, Sister Morphine.

I don't find Mary's jewellery to be a show of what they can or cannot afford, rather, what she herself likes. Her taste in jewellery is very ecelctic and it suits her very well.

I have noticed (and actually agree with the arrangement) that the Crown Princess chooses to wear the jewels you would associate with a lady of her position only when it is necessary of her role, to exhibit 'the image' of a courtly royal. Yes, Mary's wedding tiara is not overly impressive, but appropriate when one looks to the exquisite parure now at her disposal, which she has worn only three times as it stands.

[auntie]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

I don't know, maybe Mary isn't the ostentatious jewelery kind of gal. It might not have anything to do with funds or the lack thereof, and more to do with the fact that just because she's CPss, doesn't mean she needs to have ginormous jewels stuck all over her all the time. She's always looked regal and tasteful with what she does have, so why change that?

And not everyone can get a 2ct. engagement ring. A 2ct. engagement ring with a decent stone in it is pricey. Just because YOU know people with that kind of ice, doesn't mean everyone else has access to it. Maybe she wanted something small and tasteful and not huge and gaudy. If that was me, I'd want the same thing. Some giant doorknob of a diamond would make me feel uneasy.

Sorry if you took it the wrong way, I meant that a 2ct ring isn't something you need to be a gazzilionare or a crown prince,to buy. Diana's engangement ring cost Charles 25 years ago 25,000 Pounds, she was not ostentatious, but every peice was, ahh! anyway back to CP Mary, I can see you are a Mary fan, I am neutrual, but I still hold had Fred had more money,her new jewellery would be more expensive.(not neccesarily ostentatious, Mary has class)

[Roshanah]

I couldn't have put it better myself, well done. It's true that the press sensationized the matter. As you rightly pointed out alex is only acting within the bounds of the pre-nup she signed when she married Joachim.

I bet it was a gamble (on part of the press and the one who leaked the pria-nup details) that the minute that the findings were known, aspersions would be thrown upon Alex because of the timing of the divorce.

Very few would remember how hard Alex worked for denmark and what occured (both said and unsaid) when things weren't dandy between them. there would be plenty whom wouldn't let sleeping dogs lie.

It reminds me of the times of old divorce wasn't an option, theystuck it out until death did they part (Not that the parties concerned didn't do their best.) Back in those days it was the lady whom would have lost her standing irrevocably, in the event of divorce. So in this age Women are better provided for in this case.

The difference now is that CP Mary's pre-nup has changed from the one that Alex has to one that would make it worth her while to remain married. Although the same Pre-nup redraft would still amply provide for her in the the event (I hope it doesn't happen) of divorce. Having said that many could have argued that the timing of the pria-nuptual redraft, was poor. But hey hindsight sometimes is a pain in the behind.

I still can't help feeling that it is a kneejerk reaction to more things than, Alexandra and joachim's impending divorce and settlement alone. Although I could be wrong.

My question is why wasn't that the matter kept between the parties concerned, thereby the parties concerened and the country would only remember the good times. As history has shown certain private things placed into the public domain (of the press,) have made things more untenuable. I really hope that an ammicable arrangement acan be reached.

Originally Posted by Fashionista100

Boy, times change. I remember when Alex could do no wrong and everyone thought Mary was the "golddigger." I don't think Alex took advantage of Joachim at all. First off, they both had lawyers. If his lawyer had half a brain he would have told him to put in monetary amounts. Joachim knew Alex could pick any house she wants. Two, Joachim is not destitute b/c of the divorce. Three, Alex still works, she has worked long and hard for Denmark. If she wants to take it slow for a year or two to recoup, so be it. Her own home is not overly extravagant. It had to be remolded and furnished. Security needed to be upgraded for her and the children. There are very few places they could have gone. She needed a place in the capitol for work. She is very involved in her charities. Now is Mary's time and Alex is stepping aside for the time being and taking care of herself. She's earned it. No one worked as hard as Alex for Denmark for years after she came on the scene. Alex wouldn't take advantage of Denmark and Denmark wouldn't leave Alex in the cold.

[Lillia]

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

I have a feeling that you are right, Sister Morphine.

I don't find Mary's jewellery to be a show of what they can or cannot afford, rather, what she herself likes. Her taste in jewellery is very ecelctic and it suits her very well.

I have noticed (and actually agree with the arrangement) that the Crown Princess chooses to wear the jewels you would associate with a lady of her position only when it is necessary of her role, to exhibit 'the image' of a courtly royal. Yes, Mary's wedding tiara is not overly impressive, but appropriate when one looks to the exquisite parure now at her disposal, which she has worn only three times as it stands.

it makes sense to me. in a way, I think it kind of goes well with the DRF, at least with the way they present themselves (imo); understated, not obnoxious, no need to impress or th show off -- even though I bet they certainly could if they wanted to because they do know how its done -- Frederick's wedding was very impressive and in good taste, imo, orchestrated as fit for a true Crown Prince whose wedding would be seen by many, many people.

I remember a lady I met once and she had a huge diamond (or like diamond I guess) on her finger and it was really distracting for both her and everyone else.

I just think the CP is a little more practical about the jewellery thing, but that's just my own opinion.

(or maybe she prefers to spend her money on clothes I could certainly understand that )

[lise]

I just think the CP is a little more practical about the jewellery thing, but that's just my own opinion.

That's my opinion too. Mary doesn't seem to go around in huge over the top jewellery.

[Polly]

I think these comments a little trite and comical. I've never, ever before, heard any suggestion that Denmark didn't have sufficient funds to pay for an over-the-top engagement ring for its Crown Princess.

Lichenstein is the wealthiest European royal house. The UK family is around 6th/7th.

If CP Frederick and CP Mary wanted a 10 carat diamond, I'm sure that they could have afforded one.

Personally, I turned down a more ostentatious engagement ring because I preferred a more simple, and to me, much more elegant one, which didn't cost quite so much.

Polly