Discussion About Frederik and Mary's Prenuptial Agreement

[Lady Bluffton]

So what was the legal consideration for the amendment to the original pre-nup? Can anyone give us a translation of the pre-nup amendment?

I am assuming something like "mutual benefits enuring to each party" or some such legal "term of art".

Any lawyers out there want to talk about this (as an attorney, I have a professional interest in this one).​

 

[norwegianne]

Mary forced to change pre-nup

Days before flying to Australia for her recent tour, Mary agreed to remove passages from her original agreement that ordered Prince Frederik to pay for a "new, suitable house'' if they divorced.

article: http://www.news.com.au/sundaytelegraph/story/0,22049,20860336-5006009,00.html

After much ado, I found the section 56 the article is referring to. (When they just say section 56 of Danish law... bad journalism. Do they have any idea how diverse the Danish laws are - and the law with the number 56 was something to do with railroads...)

Anyway, the section 56 of the law about entering into marriage and disolving one:

§ 56. If a spouse has had sole property, it can, if the married couple's fortune, the length of the marriage and the circumstances surrounding it, speaks in its favour, after a claim from the other spouse in connection with separation or divorce, be decided that the one spouse shall give the other a sum to ensure that the person is not in a bad financial situation after the separation or the divorce. This rule is also used for rights that cannot be transferred or of a personal matter, and which is not included in the splitting of joint property. http://www.retsinfo.dk/_GETDOCI_/ACCN/A19990014729-REGL

Bad translation, but you may get the general gist. Hence, in one way it really doesn't matter if the two clauses were lost from the pre-nup, as Mary can "lean" on this law, should it, God forbid, be needed. The longer they are married, the stronger her position will be.

 

[Jasl]

It was stated earlier in this thread that Mary is a law graduate. That is not correct. She has an undergraduate degree in commerce and law which is quite different. Although her education involved some law classes - common in many business related degrees - she is in no way a law graduate.

<Remarks re Mary's education deleted as per warning/Mandy>

(ooopss, I see that this has already been covered by others

Back to the pre-nup changes, yes I can imagine getting something else in return for the changes. But I think more than anything else, I think the reason she agreed was because (i) she believes that her husband and her would do everything not to be placed in that position (to be divorced), and (ii) she doesn't think that the ability to choose a house after divorce is necessary.

Personally, I think the reasons above are admirable (though of course I don't know if they apply in this situation). It shows more trust in the marriage, and indicates that she's not afraid of the risk of 'going it alone' (and not be dependent on handouts) if the unthinkable happens.

 

[adelaide]

This discussion is very complex because I'm sure that none of us are abble to analyse this agreemant for the all, whithout to know the total background.

But one thing seems to me unacceptable for Mary as the mother of the heir of the Crown Prince is the fact of the unqual treatment beside Alexandra' s position.

Only for that, you can think there is matter of litigation in front the Courts. In this conditions, and because there is no new events regarding the both parties at the contract, I find very strange that Mary could accepted some significant changes about her wedding contract of which the economy is quiet different because of that.

May be she has others insurances!

 

[Jo of Palatine]

But one thing seems to me unacceptable for Mary as the mother of the heir of the Crown Prince is the fact of the unqual treatment beside Alexandra' s position.

Yes, that's what I'M thinking as well. But we have only the word of a mass market paper that the agreement was changed because poor Frederick couldn't give Mary what she is entitled to according to the agreement in case of a divorce.

Now that's really a PR problem IMHO for the Royal family. First of all the SHSG never lost their throne but are still sitting on the same throne their family acquired more than 1000 years ago. I can't believe they are poor. Maybe they are not as rich as the Windsors or the Oranje-Nassaus but still it should be enough to support a wife if in addition you are working and getting payment as the Crown Prince of a country of Europe. Prince Henrik isn't from a poor family either, so there should be some assets from his side of the family as well.

Nope, I can't believe that's the case. There must be another reason.

But it's interesting that following the original publishing of the document the case of Alexandra and her income comes up. IMHO it isn't too good for her either, if people start believing that due to the fact that she wants to live in style the equally popular mother of the future king has to cope with eventual dire circumstances. Mind, I'm not saying that it's that way, just that this seems to be what papers are implying, which can't be good for either of the parties of this story. It has already been said that Alexandra gets more than Mary and Joachim, while she does lately only a few Royal duties (see her own thread... Nothing new to be read there....)

I wonder if we'll get a statement soon, explaining the whole sordid thing?

 

[norwegianne]

Now that's really a PR problem IMHO for the Royal family. First of all the SHSG never lost their throne but are still sitting on the same throne their family acquired more than 1000 years ago. I can't believe they are poor. Maybe they are not as rich as the Windsors or the Oranje-Nassaus but still it should be enough to support a wife if in addition you are working and getting payment as the Crown Prince of a country of Europe. Prince Henrik isn't from a poor family either, so there should be some assets from his side of the family as well.

It was pointed out in either the Ekstrabladet article or the News.au one that until Frederik is the king, he will have very little private property - he has his allowance from the state, and that is that, basically. Joachim has Schackenborg, which is his private property. Prince Henrik and Queen Margrethe has Château de Cayx & Marselisborg, as private property. The hunting lodge at Trend is held in a trust, for the descendants of Frederik IX and Ingrid. The rest of the palaces are state-owned, and "lent" to the royals for their usage.

There are jewels, but a lot of them are held in a trust.

 

[MargreteI]

Should she divorce they would most likely put her up in Sorgenfri Castle which has been vacant since late 90's and also suitable for the mother of the heir.

Besides I doubt we will have any statements from the Royal Family whatsoever regarding this matter. Total silence is more likely.

 

[Fashionista100]

How much is the Danish Royal Family worth? Not counting any of their allowance from the state or any state holdings.

 

[norwegianne]

How much is the Danish Royal Family worth? Not counting any of their allowance from the state or any state holdings.

from this thread, post by Benjamin

DENMARK
• Queen Margrethe’s annual $6.75 million allowance contributes to the maintenance of the royal family. EuroBusiness has estimated that the family also has a relatively modest fortune of $15 million in an investment fund. However the palace — which refuses to release details of the royals’ wealth — says this is "too high."

Note: this is just a guestimate.

 

[Lady Bluffton]

I find $15M (USD) as the net worth of the Danish royal family hard to believe. Some "regular" people are worth far more than that. Hard to believe that ten generations or more of Danish royals haven't had the foresight to make investments that just generate interest income without ever touching the corpus.

Also, isn't it possible that CP Fred inherited some legacy from his French grandparents???

$15M USD is nothing these days for people of this social stature.

 

[Tricota]

Did they publish the first prenuptial agreement.?

They did. Both Joachim & Alexandras and Frederik and Mary's are public.
Except for the names they are prettymuch the same. That was before the change.

As someone has mentioned the Danish Royal Family is rediculesly poor. Especially compared to other royal families. They own almost no propety, Shakenborg ,Marselisborg and Château de Cayx excluded. The apanage is about 8.6 million euros to the queen, of which she pays 10 % to Henrik and 1.5 % to Princess Benedikte. Out of this she has to pay for her household, interior maitenence on all royal propety, personal staff in royal houses and whatever private needs she has. So as anyone can see, the Royal Family arent exactly swiming in money. And the only one making money is Joachim, though not much.

Prince Joachim almost bankrupted the family twice, once with the weding and again with the divorce. No doubt a potential devorce between the CP couple would be much worse for the family. Not only would it be bigger and more expencive, Frederik also doesnt have anything of real value like personal real estate or a company like Joachim did. So the money would come from the main source, the Royal family. And it could possibly brake it financially, something noone is interested in. So there is no doubt in my mind that Mary was under great pressuere to sign a new pre-nup. Not only from the Royal Family, but perhaps also from other figures inside the government.

The real question is of couse, what has she be promised in return? No doubt some deal has been made. Perhaps a private arrangement with the government or one of the Royal Families benefactors? Or perhaps a promise by the queen herself that she would not stay on the throne for life, but step down within a few years...

No doubt a devorce would be less likely then, and at the very least a devorced queen is better then a devorced princess...

Being the mother of the former CP doesnt give Mary any special deal as such, though im sure the parliament would quickly make sure she got on the civil list...

I find $15M (USD) as the net worth of the Danish royal family hard to believe. Some "regular" people are worth far more than that. Hard to believe that ten generations or more of Danish royals haven't had the foresight to make investments that just generate interest income without ever touching the corpus.

Also, isn't it possible that CP Fred inherited some legacy from his French grandparents???

$15M USD is nothing these days for people of this social stature.

From everything I have heard and read over the years it sounds pretty high. Remember they dont own anything and has never really been rich.

 

[norwegianne]

They did. Both Joachim & Alexandras and Frederik and Mary's are public.
Except for the names they are prettymuch the same. That was before the change.

As someone has mentioned the Danish Royal Family is rediculesly poor. Especially compared to other royal families. They own almost no propety, Shakenborg ,Marselisborg and Château de Cayx excluded. The apanage is about 8.6 million euros to the queen, of which she pays 10 % to Henrik and 1.5 % to Princess Benedikte. Out of this she has to pay for her household, interior maitenence on all royal propety, personal staff in royal houses and whatever private needs she has. So as anyone can see, the Royal Family arent exactly swiming in money. And the only one making money is Joachim, though not much.

Prince Joachim almost bankrupted the family twice, once with the weding and again with the divorce. No doubt a potential devorce between the CP couple would be much worse for the family. Not only would it be bigger and more expencive, Frederik also doesnt have anything of real value like personal real estate or a company like Joachim did. So the money would come from the main source, the Royal family. And it could possibly brake it financially, something noone is interested in. So there is no doubt in my mind that Mary was under great pressuere to sign a new pre-nup. Not only from the Royal Family, but perhaps also from other figures inside the government.

The real question is of couse, what has she be promised in return? No doubt some deal has been made. Perhaps a private arrangement with the government or one of the Royal Families benefactors? Or perhaps a promise by the queen herself that she would not stay on the throne for life, but step down within a few years...

No doubt a devorce would be less likely then, and at the very least a devorced queen is better then a devorced princess...

Being the mother of the former CP doesnt give Mary any special deal as such, though im sure the parliament would quickly make sure she got on the civil list...

Is it possible that Alex receiving an allowance in her own right, also prompted this?

 

[Tricota]

Is it possible that Alex receiving an allowance in her own right, also prompted this?

Very possible. There is no way they would not give grant her her own apanage if they devorced, as the Mother of Christian and "mini me", and they are perhaps trying to ease the burden on the RF's money that way... But my guess is still that there is some sought of verbal agreement we dont know anything about...

 

[Laviollette]

When might they reduce Alexandra's allowance? If they can make Mary sign a post nuptial agreement, can't they renegotiate the terms of Alexandra's divorce settlement?

 

[avrilo]

An article in hola

http://www.hola.com/casasreales/2006/12/04/mary-contrato-2/

 

[Tricota]

When might they reduce Alexandra's allowance? If they can make Mary sign a post nuptial agreement, can't they renegotiate the terms of Alexandra's divorce settlement?

The settlement is done, and cant be changed. In that she was granted a house and a one time sum of money. The same goes with the child support.

But the bulk of her income is from the apanage granted by the parlament. (1.8 million dkr and a driver i believe) This is granted for life and independent of her re-marrying. As a royal however she does not pay tax and VAT, something she would have to do if she got married. But the divorce settlement itself is done.

 

[princess olga]

The settlement is done, and cant be changed. In that she was granted a house and a one time sum of money. The same goes with the child support.

But the bulk of her income is from the apanage granted by the parlament. (1.8 million dkr and a driver i believe) This is granted for life and independent of her re-marrying. As a royal however she does not pay tax and VAT, something she would have to do if she got married. But the divorce settlement itself is done.

Very interesting, all this. According to Hello Magazine, Alexandra's divorce nearly bankrupted poor Joachim, who was forced to sell that lovely old inn he's running in the village he's living in, in order to pay for Alexandra's little city palace. Looks like he's got the wrong end of the stick here indeed. No wonder he's careful with women nowadays..

On topic, what I don't understand is this: at the time they were preparing Mary and Fred's prenup, that was aroundthe same time Alex and Joachim were (still secretly, as they didn't want this to interfere with the wedding in 2004) preparing the divorce, including purchasing Alex's current house.

what I don't get is, why, considering it should have been clear around that time already, that Joachim was forced to sell the inn to finance his divorce, why oh why didn't they then already include the paragraph that they now, two years after the wedding, are changing re. Fred and Mary? Why didn't they think of it then?

By the by, the family must have realized what a plum deal Alex got with the divorce: you go and marry a prince, and ten years on, you divorce him, get a free house, a million krone a year for showing up somewhere with a bunch of flowers in your hand, on, oh, a monthly basis or so. Don't get me wrong, I have a thing for stylish Alex, but I can totally see how it's now become clear to the DRF that this is and expensive proposition NOT to be repeated. But again, why didn't they see that two years ago? I'm puzzled..

 

[Laviollette]

But the bulk of her income is from the apanage granted by the parlament. (1.8 million dkr and a driver i believe) This is granted for life and independent of her re-marrying.

Why? And can't the government say we're not going to pay her for being an ex-wife of the prince? I know it won't affect Joachim's personal finances but why is Alexandra getting a government check along with alimony, child support and a mansion from her ex-husband?

 

[princess olga]

Is it possible that Alex receiving an allowance in her own right, also prompted this?

You may well be right, but the question remains: why coulnd't they have thought of this in 2004, when Joachim and Alex were in the midst of figuring out their divorce?

 

[Madame Royale]

You may well be right, but the question remains: why coulnd't they have thought of this in 2004, when Joachim and Alex were in the midst of figuring out their divorce?

Hindsight can be a good thing. How else do we learn?

 

[princess olga]

Hindsight can be a good thing. How else do we learn?

I agree with that, but the impending divorce in 2004 of J and A, in fact <gave> them this hindsight! As they were preparing the prenup, Joachim and Alexandra's union wasn't only washed up already, their divorce settlement was being worked out in all likelyhood at the same time as the prenup!

 

[amina1]

You may well be right, but the question remains: why coulnd't they have thought of this in 2004, when Joachim and Alex were in the midst of figuring out their divorce?

Ya, I was wondering about that too, it does sound strange 'Why Now"
At least if they were careful enough not to leak any of this, it will give a headache to Marry, I guess it's good that she on Holiday right now

 

[niki]

I can't see how the royal family is poor. Isn't Mary's closet loaded with beautiful designer clothes, and accessories? Just wondering how Fred's income can afford all that but it can't afford to pay her what was agreed upon in the first pre-nup?

 

[Madame Royale]

I agree with that, but the impending divorce in 2004 of J and A, in fact <gave> them this hindsight! As they were preparing the prenup, Joachim and Alexandra's union wasn't only washed up already, their divorce settlement was being worked out in all likelyhood at the same time as the prenup!

I 'see' what yor saying, princess olga.

Of course I'm in no position to give an answer which represents the Royal Family's reasoning and approach towards the Crown Princely pre-nup.

Keeping in mind their divorce settlement was contracted some 9-10 years prior and at the time of their seperation, Mary and Frederik had already been married a little over 5 months (J & A divorcing some 7 moths later).

Who is to say that at the time of the wedding, the pre-nup had already been brought into question? We are not aware if that is so as we are not aware if they had infact (again, at the time of the wedding) decided upon mutual seperation at that stage.

Didn't Princess Alexandra reside at an apartment in Amalienborg after the seperation? There are, I think, 'sings' showing that the pre-nup was being reviewed during the seperation and not before.

You only really know the consequences of a pre-nup after its been enforced, and that is why I think its perfectly likely (not saying this is what happend) that the changes have only, now, been amended for the Crown Princely couple. Mind you, I see these changes as firm recognition of Mary's position within the family.

Just my take on it of course

I can't see how the royal family is poor. Isn't Mary's closet loaded with beautiful designer clothes, and accessories? Just wondering how Fred's income can afford all that but it can't afford to pay her what was agreed upon in the first pre-nup?

As are the closets of many Princesses I'm positive and no one has claimed that the DRF are "poor", because they certainly aren't. They have, however, learnt from an experience and are taking precautions (and that is all they are) that seem to me, reasonable and appropriate

 

[biboquinhas]

Yes it seams reasonable but I also think that they could have done this before in the first prenup.

 

[norwegianne]

I can't see how the royal family is poor. Isn't Mary's closet loaded with beautiful designer clothes, and accessories? Just wondering how Fred's income can afford all that but it can't afford to pay her what was agreed upon in the first pre-nup?

When it it talked about the DRF being poor, one talks about their personal assets. Mary's clothes are being paid by the yearly amount Frederik gets from the state.

Frederik got 15.135.828 DKK as an allowance last year. Out of this: 4.133.677 was for his personal needs - with 10% of the original sum to Mary. Staff costs were 8.198.331 DKK, running the court 2.397.693, administrative costs 564.656 & property costs: 616.600 dkk (They live for free, and the exterior is covered by the state, but the interior both at Amalienborg & Kancellihuset is their responsibility, including heat and electricity) As there was a deficit of -775.129 DKK, it was covered by the Crown Prince, which means that the actual sum for personal needs was around 3.3 mil DKK (about 1.5 of which went to Mary).

While it is plenty, for regular living, it wouldn't be enough to buy Mary a new house, and support her financially.

http://download.tdconline.dk/pub/kongehuset/aarsrapport/Kongehuset_aars05.pdf - Last year's financial raport from the Royal house Fascinating read, really, if you read Danish and/or understand numbers.

Should Frederik die before Mary, while they're still Crown Prince and Princess, she would get a yearly basic sum of 6.387.500 DKK (to be increased with inflation) and housing from the State, according to the law about Frederik's yearly sum: http://www.retsinfo.dk/_LINK_0/0&ACCN/A20040032230

 

[ricarda]

Why? And can't the government say we're not going to pay her for being an ex-wife of the prince? I know it won't affect Joachim's personal finances but why is Alexandra getting a government check along with alimony, child support and a mansion from her ex-husband?

Officially Alexandra gets the money from the government
because it was said she would continue her work.
But this year she only had max. 30 engagements
(and I was generous and counted those activities which were not on the official calendar too)
which is faaaar less than any of the other RF members had.
I don't care much about what was/is going on between Joachim and Alexandra
and how much he has to pay for her and their children.
But I think it's a real scandal that Alexandra gets money from the state (i.e. Danish taxpayer)
and works so little for it.
IMO she has successfully fooled the Danes.

Regarding the changes of M&F's pre-nup contract
I would say the press made too much of it.
And I can't quite see how Mary could have been forced to give up her rights.
IMO she agreed to sign because she saw how noble the DRF handled the A&J divorce.
And it is quite obvious that the wife of a future king and mother of a future king
will never be treated worse than the wife of the second son.
In case of divorce she might very well end up in one of the 4 Amalienborg palaces
while Frederik stays in another one.
But something tells me they will never divorce.

 

[H.M. Margrethe]

As are the closets of many Princesses I'm positive and no one has claimed that the DRF are "poor", because they certainly aren't. They have, however, learnt from an experience and are taking precautions (and that is all they are) that seem to me, reasonable and appropriate

I think you are so rigtht in what you are saying about the DRF are reasonable and appropriate.

 

[biboquinhas]

Officially Alexandra gets the money from the government
because it was said she would continue her work.
But this year she only had max. 30 engagements
(and I was generous and counted those activities which were not on the official calendar too)
which is faaaar less than any of the other RF members had.
I don't care much about what was/is going on between Joachim and Alexandra
and how much he has to pay for her and their children.
But I think it's a real scandal that Alexandra gets money from the state (i.e. Danish taxpayer)
and works so little for it.
IMO she has successfully fooled the Danes.

After reading all things regarding these prenups I agree with you, Alexandra really fooled all of us, she is not that sweet face she appears. Hope Princess Mary is different, I really think she is!

 

[UserDane]

And it is quite obvious that the wife of a future king and mother of a future king
will never be treated worse than the wife of the second son.

I quite agree Ricarda; I don't see how the DRF could ever get away with treating Mary less than decent (which I can't see them try to do anyhow) in case of a divorce. Public opinion and a lot of politicians would demand fair and reasonable treatment of Mary as well probably more so than in Alexandra's case.