Crown Princess Mary's Ladies-in-Waiting

[Australian]

I do agree with you princess olga, I mean, Mary does have her flaws, like everyone. And yes, some posters do have a blind spot to that and i completely know where you are coming from with that, because I see it too. Mary is good, not excellent, but good in my opinion.

As for beauty, there are millions and millions of women out there more beautiful than Mary. To some, she may be the most beautiful, to others she might not be. To me, she is just attractive, not an eye-popping beauty (but then again, i like simple beauty) Out of the Crown Princesses of Europe, to me, mary is the most attractive.

As for your last statement regarding us Aussies to admit the other lady is more beautiful, That is your opinion, im sure people can make up their own mind lol.

By the way, i think a persons most attractive features are their heart and soul, not necessarily outer beauty.

[crisscross1]

Originally Posted by princess olga

of course, when the 'beholder' hails from Mary's native Australia, the way they see things might become, well, a bit predictable sometimes in my opinion.

Oh dear, sorry to disappoint you princess olga but I am an Australian who happens to think that both Mary and Caroline are beautiful in their own way. They are both very similar in many respects. Marriage, age, figures, sense of dress and I've no doubt personality. The only thing different as far as I can tell is that Mary is a Crown Princess and Caroline isn't. Caroline has beautiful hair and a genuine smile, I think she is very pretty.

[Sister Morphine]

I don't think it's fair to say that any one of them is more attractive than the other, if it's a means of putting someone down. You can say that Caroline is more attractive than Mary in XYZ ways, and Mary is more attractive than Caroline in ABC ways. To me, that's saying they are both attractive women without saying that either one of them is ugly.

[Australian]

Originally Posted by Sister Morphine

I don't think it's fair to say that any one of them is more attractive than the other, if it's a means of putting someone down. You can say that Caroline is more attractive than Mary in XYZ ways, and Mary is more attractive than Caroline in ABC ways. To me, that's saying they are both attractive women without saying that either one of them is ugly.

yes, very true Sister Morphine.

[ricarda]

Originally Posted by princess olga

But all the same, this isn't a contest and the cliche certainly applies here that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I agree with that.
Therefore I disagree with your attack against LindaHsu.
It was actually catanga who started all this by saying that Caroline is more beautiful, "there is no doubt".
I don't think Mary is a great flawless beauty
but - like Linda Hsu - I am tempted to disagree 100% when I read comments like that.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and therefore there is always room for doubts.

Originally Posted by princess olga

you might have a point just when you consider that this lady in waiting certainly didn't have the army of stylists to her disposal that Mary does. So one could conclude that, if compared to Mary-before-her-princess days, this lady in waiting certainly has an advantage in the natural beauty department.

I agree Caroline is an attractive and elegant woman.
But have you ever seen her in her younger, before-lady-in-waiting-days,
with her natural haircolour?
I would definitely say she too has a stylist at her disposal.
(And Mary has only one personal stylist AFAIK, not an army.)

But more beautiful than her radiant and gorgeous lady in waiting? Not sure, as her lady in waiting has a beauty all of its own.

IMO both women have a natural but not flawless beauty
and know how to make the best of themselves.
But I really find Mary more radiant and gorgeous than Caroline.
Mary sparkles, Caroline doesn't IMO.

[Binz]

Caroline is an attractive lady, though I prefer Mary very much.

This is OT, though to me Mary was always a very pretty even somewhat beautiful woman. I remember a picture of her and Chris Mehan together. This was late in 2001 definitely long before she had an army of stylists. I thought allready in 2001 that the danish CP has finally found himself a very pretty and suitable woman for a serious relationship. Mary isn't the most perfect beauty I have seen in my life. Somehow for me there is something special around her. Probably I have simple the same bad taste as her husband. Frederik didn't need a perfect looking and groomed woman to fall in love with. One more reason to like him.

[catango]

I think I have the rigth to say what I think about something, because this is a forum, and for that reaosn I put my statement, I'm not ofending Mary, I believe that Caroline is more beautiful than Mary. That's all.

[magnik]

Originally Posted by catango

I think I have the rigth to say what I think about something, because this is a forum, and for that reaosn I put my statement, I'm not ofending Mary, I believe that Caroline is more beautiful than Mary. That's all.

I agree with you carengo about more of this post.

My opinion:
Both ladies are beautiful one their own way.
But I think that Caroline sometimes looks much elegant than Mary. Another time Mary looks much elegant than her l-i-w.

[LadyK]

Originally Posted by catango

I think I have the right to say what I think about something, because this is a forum, and for that reason I put my statement, I'm not offending Mary, I believe that Caroline is more beautiful than Mary. That's all.

You Do have the right to say what you think. So does everyone else. It's nice to hear differing opinions-that's what makes this forum interesting.

[princess olga]

Originally Posted by Australian

I do agree with you princess olga, I mean, Mary does have her flaws, like everyone. And yes, some posters do have a blind spot to that and i completely know where you are coming from with that, because I see it too. Mary is good, not excellent, but good in my opinion.

As for beauty, there are millions and millions of women out there more beautiful than Mary. To some, she may be the most beautiful, to others she might not be. To me, she is just attractive, not an eye-popping beauty (but then again, i like simple beauty) Out of the Crown Princesses of Europe, to me, mary is the most attractive.

As for your last statement regarding us Aussies to admit the other lady is more beautiful, That is your opinion, im sure people can make up their own mind lol.

By the way, i think a persons most attractive features are their heart and soul, not necessarily outer beauty.

Good points, Australian. Keep in mind I said <some> Aussies, not the majority.

Originally Posted by ricarda

I agree with that.
Therefore I disagree with your attack against LindaHsu.

I didn't attack anyone. But if someone makes an ultra brief statement (i e 'I disagree') and accompanies it with a myriad of exclamation points, is it too much asked to ask if they care to elaborate on their points a little bit? Without some sort of discussion as to <why> they think a certain way, this forum would be less what it is today, I think.

By the way, I didn't know Caroline's not really a redhead? Anyway, both ladies have their own qualities and moreover, I say, good for Mary for having a lady in waiting who's her own generation.

[lise]

I think Mary and Caroline are on the same level attractiveness wise.

[lise]

Originally Posted by princess olga

I didn't attack anyone. But if someone makes an ultra brief statement (i e 'I disagree') and accompanies it with a myriad of exclamation points, is it too much asked to ask if they care to elaborate on their points a little bit? Without some sort of discussion as to <why> they think a certain way, this forum would be less what it is today, I think.

I don't think so. I think we need elaboration to make interesting discussion. The "I agree/disagree" or "I love that...." posts tend to get boring after a while.

[biboquinhas]

They must be really good friends, Mary has spend last weekend in Caroline's house near the beach! So it's normal that Princess Mary wants to have a good friend near her!

[niki]

I think thet are both very beautiful women and I hope that Mary has a good friend in Caroline. It must be hard for her to make new friends now that she's a CP.

[Henri M.]

Originally Posted by niki

I think thet are both very beautiful women and I hope that Mary has a good friend in Caroline. It must be hard for her to make new friends now that she's a CP.

A lady in waiting comes close to a Queen or a Princess, has entrance into the most inner circle. But... she remains a lady-in-waiting. Protocollair seen one of the most exclusive and standing 'functions' at a Court, but still.... it is 'staff'. Some posters hope that the Crown Princess has 'a good friend' in her lady-in-waiting. My very personal opinion is that this is an unhealthy situation. The late Diana showed us the wrong way in her far too close bonds with her butler Burrel or her bodyguard Mannakee, not to mention her astrologist or fortune teller...

Crown Princess Mary should, from day one, mark the line. SHE is the Crown Princess. SHE is Danmark's future Queen. I know it is difficult because Mary is a Tasmanian girl suddenly walking around in a palace and her lady-in-waiting knows so much more. I know it is a lonely position. But it is always lonely at the top, no matter where. I think you will understand what I mean.

In the Netherlands almost all staff in the Royal Household is part of a caroussel system. No longer than three years in the same place or function. That is an iron rule vested by Queen Beatrix. Aimabilities between the 800 members of the Household and the Queen's family are an horreur to her. Period. Only the 6 Hofdames are excluded from this carroussel, be it that they work in shifts of once in six weeks. So in a whole year the Hofdames are no more than some 5 weeks in the palace. Also this is done to keep a distance and to protect the private lifesphere and not let them become too familiar. Queen Beatrix has witnessed the destructive system of 'family clans' (generation after generation working in palaces) or 'factions' (the 'Juliana-side' and the 'Bernhard-side') and has developed a strong aversion against people coming too close.

If the future Lady of the House (Mary) wants not to be ruled by 'the grey men in the grey suits', she should not allow them to be too close. She can have dozens of friends. But not her lady in waiting. Not her secretary. Not the chauffeur.

[RachelD]

But isn't Mary's lady-in-waiting's husband a great friend of Fred's from before he married Mary? If he wished to go out with his friend's...what are Mary and Caroline supposed to do? Not go because one works for the other and no freindship should exist? I don't understand...

[UserDane]

Originally Posted by RachelD

But isn't Mary's lady-in-waiting's husband a great friend of Fred's from before he married Mary? If he wished to go out with his friend's...what are Mary and Caroline supposed to do? Not go because one works for the other and no freindship should exist? I don't understand...

Me neither. Yes, Caroline's husband and Frederik are old friends.
Besides, the pictures taken last weekend of Mary going to the windy beach with Christian - they were taken close to Caroline's and her husband's summer house apparently and Mary was visiting them - without Frederik. She wouldn't do that I suppose unless they are on friendly terms / friends?

[RachelD]

User Dane, my exact sentiments.
Honestly, I don't see the harm in Mary befreinding her lady's-in-waiting. It's not like they can take advantage of that to climb socially. They are already from affluent, respected families, what else can they get from not only being their CP'ss lady-in-waiting but her friend also? And like someone already mentioned, it's lonely at the top, so good ridance, get yourself some great freinds that won't try to use you when your at the top! Just my opinion.
Plus, her relationship with Caroline is not the same as Diana's with her butler and whom ever else. This lady is not hovering over Mary night and day like a butler would be since he actually lives in the place.

[Henri M.]

My point is that, let me take Princess Máxima, is very, very close befriended with Prince Georg and Prinses Benedikta zu Sayn-Wittegenstein-Hohenstein, with Count Franz-Clemens and Countess Stéphanie zu Waldburg-Zeil-Hohenems, with Frederik van Welderen Baron Rengers and his wife Samantha (schoolfriend of Máxima). Most of them even do not live in the Netherlands at all!

This all is done with a purpose. Ottoline 'Lieke' Gaarlandt van Voorst van Beesd is Princess Máxima's most frequent Hofdame. It is most likely the two ladies are very fond of each other. But one is the future Queen and the other 'just' a Hofdame. Never forget that. Real friendships do not belong in hierarchical relationships.

[Alisa]

Sorry to divert Henri M. but where does Frederik van Welderen Baron Rengers and Samantha live. I was under the impression they lived in the Netherlands?