Crown Princess Mary's Ladies-in-Waiting

[lise]

I think Mary and Caroline are on the same level attractiveness wise.

 

[lise]

I didn't attack anyone. But if someone makes an ultra brief statement (i e 'I disagree') and accompanies it with a myriad of exclamation points, is it too much asked to ask if they care to elaborate on their points a little bit? Without some sort of discussion as to <why> they think a certain way, this forum would be less what it is today, I think.

I don't think so. I think we need elaboration to make interesting discussion. The "I agree/disagree" or "I love that...." posts tend to get boring after a while.

 

[biboquinhas]

They must be really good friends, Mary has spend last weekend in Caroline's house near the beach! So it's normal that Princess Mary wants to have a good friend near her!

 

[niki]

I think thet are both very beautiful women and I hope that Mary has a good friend in Caroline. It must be hard for her to make new friends now that she's a CP.

 

[Henri M.]

Unhealty situation

I think thet are both very beautiful women and I hope that Mary has a good friend in Caroline. It must be hard for her to make new friends now that she's a CP.

A lady in waiting comes close to a Queen or a Princess, has entrance into the most inner circle. But... she remains a lady-in-waiting. Protocollair seen one of the most exclusive and standing 'functions' at a Court, but still.... it is 'staff'. Some posters hope that the Crown Princess has 'a good friend' in her lady-in-waiting. My very personal opinion is that this is an unhealthy situation. The late Diana showed us the wrong way in her far too close bonds with her butler Burrel or her bodyguard Mannakee, not to mention her astrologist or fortune teller...

Crown Princess Mary should, from day one, mark the line. SHE is the Crown Princess. SHE is Danmark's future Queen. I know it is difficult because Mary is a Tasmanian girl suddenly walking around in a palace and her lady-in-waiting knows so much more. I know it is a lonely position. But it is always lonely at the top, no matter where. I think you will understand what I mean.

In the Netherlands almost all staff in the Royal Household is part of a caroussel system. No longer than three years in the same place or function. That is an iron rule vested by Queen Beatrix. Aimabilities between the 800 members of the Household and the Queen's family are an horreur to her. Period. Only the 6 Hofdames are excluded from this carroussel, be it that they work in shifts of once in six weeks. So in a whole year the Hofdames are no more than some 5 weeks in the palace. Also this is done to keep a distance and to protect the private lifesphere and not let them become too familiar. Queen Beatrix has witnessed the destructive system of 'family clans' (generation after generation working in palaces) or 'factions' (the 'Juliana-side' and the 'Bernhard-side') and has developed a strong aversion against people coming too close.

If the future Lady of the House (Mary) wants not to be ruled by 'the grey men in the grey suits', she should not allow them to be too close. She can have dozens of friends. But not her lady in waiting. Not her secretary. Not the chauffeur.

 

[RachelD]

But isn't Mary's lady-in-waiting's husband a great friend of Fred's from before he married Mary? If he wished to go out with his friend's...what are Mary and Caroline supposed to do? Not go because one works for the other and no freindship should exist? I don't understand...

 

[UserDane]

But isn't Mary's lady-in-waiting's husband a great friend of Fred's from before he married Mary? If he wished to go out with his friend's...what are Mary and Caroline supposed to do? Not go because one works for the other and no freindship should exist? I don't understand...

Me neither. Yes, Caroline's husband and Frederik are old friends.
Besides, the pictures taken last weekend of Mary going to the windy beach with Christian - they were taken close to Caroline's and her husband's summer house apparently and Mary was visiting them - without Frederik. She wouldn't do that I suppose unless they are on friendly terms / friends?

 

[RachelD]

User Dane, my exact sentiments.
Honestly, I don't see the harm in Mary befreinding her lady's-in-waiting. It's not like they can take advantage of that to climb socially. They are already from affluent, respected families, what else can they get from not only being their CP'ss lady-in-waiting but her friend also? And like someone already mentioned, it's lonely at the top, so good ridance, get yourself some great freinds that won't try to use you when your at the top! Just my opinion.
Plus, her relationship with Caroline is not the same as Diana's with her butler and whom ever else. This lady is not hovering over Mary night and day like a butler would be since he actually lives in the place.

 

[Henri M.]

Real friendships do not belong in hierarchical relationships.

My point is that, let me take Princess Máxima, is very, very close befriended with Prince Georg and Prinses Benedikta zu Sayn-Wittegenstein-Hohenstein, with Count Franz-Clemens and Countess Stéphanie zu Waldburg-Zeil-Hohenems, with Frederik van Welderen Baron Rengers and his wife Samantha (schoolfriend of Máxima). Most of them even do not live in the Netherlands at all!

This all is done with a purpose. Ottoline 'Lieke' Gaarlandt van Voorst van Beesd is Princess Máxima's most frequent Hofdame. It is most likely the two ladies are very fond of each other. But one is the future Queen and the other 'just' a Hofdame. Never forget that. Real friendships do not belong in hierarchical relationships.

 

[Alisa]

Slightly OT

Sorry to divert Henri M. but where does Frederik van Welderen Baron Rengers and Samantha live. I was under the impression they lived in the Netherlands?

 

[Henri M.]

Sorry to divert Henri M. but where does Frederik van Welderen Baron Rengers and Samantha live. I was under the impression they lived in the Netherlands?

It was my understanding that Frederik van Welderen Baron Rengers and his spouse Samantha Deane Green lived in Singapore and have now moved to London. In 2004 Frederik and Samantha married in the chique country-, polo- and golf club Martindale near Buenos Aires. Their wedding was attended by the Prince and Princess.


And now back to lady Caroline and Crown Princess Mary.

 

[Yennie]

Mary and Caroline knew eachother a long time before Caroline became liw. So its more about how to keep a professional relationship instead of a personal one.

 

[fandesacs2003]

Mary and Caroline knew eachother a long time before Caroline became liw. So its more about how to keep a professional relationship instead of a personal one.

Sorry I tried to get through before to ask, but I'm not sure that I understood well.

So

• A L.I.W, has a salary, she is a kind of employee, correct?
• She should be a classy, presentable person
• She has not a very private life, she has to follow the princess and to assist her
• How can she pay her gowns? She should be dressed very appropriate, this costs a lot.
• She does not take care about the Princess dresses, hair etc? This is the role of another lady, which is not showed to the public.

I'm wrong or correct???

Thanks

 

[Henri M.]

Sorry I tried to get through before to ask, but I'm not sure that I understood well.

So

• A L.I.W, has a salary, she is a kind of employee, correct?
• She should be a classy, presentable person
• She has not a very private life, she has to follow the princess and to assist her
• How can she pay her gowns? She should be dressed very appropriate, this costs a lot.
• She does not take care about the Princess dresses, hair etc? This is the role of another lady, which is not showed to the public.

I'm wrong or correct???

Thanks

A lady in waiting does not take care for the Princess' gowns. That is really 'beyond her niveau'. The Princess will have a dresser/seamstress for that duty.

The exact arrangements on ladies-in-waiting does differ from court to court. Some courts do not have a lady-in-waiting anymore. In this post you can read more information. For a fair deal it will be the same on most Courts but the style, function, arrangements etc. will differ here and there in the various countries.

 

[biboquinhas]

well I think their relationship is based on friendship otherwise Princess Mary should'nt be invited to her home last weekend!

 

[eireann]

I have to add that some of my colleagues are also my friends - but our relationship at work is different to our private relationship. Thus, I don´t see the problem for Mary and Caroline to have a similar relationship. From the little I´ve seen of Caroline she appears to be a professional when she´s at work and that´s the only important thing IMO.

 

[bertie5252003]

This a really difficult situation for a CP to be in as she needs people to trust, socialize and just chat to BUT as CP and all that goes with that a degree of protocol must exist at all times IMO otherwise well they might as well be just one of we regular folk. Fergie and her attempts at this over friendly regular human being stuff was the worse case scenario and I donot believe that Mary would be allowed to even attempt that sort of familiar behaviour,but it is something that has to be taken into account.I hope I am expressing myself properly!Caroline Heering IS" the help" though she may or may not see herself that way I am not in a position to say and great care has to be taken to protect all forms of tradition in these strange times. IMO THAT IS.

 

[Australian]

Whatever their relationship is, I hope and am sure that Mary has someone close to her she can talk to about things, like a confidante. I think it's really important for someone in her position to have a close trusted friend to bounce things off.

 

[Lady Bluffton]

Is this a photo of Caroline???

From M. Glindorf's website (thanks much!)

Madeleine Glindorf - Webdesign, photography and more..

This was the 2007 New Year's court.

 

[GlitteringTiaras]

Yes, it is Caroline and behind her Per Thornit.

 

[iowabelle]

She's pretty, and that's a great tiara! I wonder if it is a family piece. (Now, who do you grill for information about the lady-in-waiting's jewelry!)

 

[ayvee]

Is this a photo of Caroline???

From M. Glindorf's website (thanks much!)

Madeleine Glindorf - Webdesign, photography and more..

This was the 2007 New Year's court.

Oh my gosh! This is the first time I have seen Caroline's tiara and what do you know, I recognized it right away! It is exactly the same as a diamond tiara owned by the Duke and Duchess of Westminster. Same number of leaves in the same angles including the bezels.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m319/ay...instertiara.jpg
Photo is scanned from 'Tiaras, A History of Splendour' by Geoffrey Munn p. 299

I wonder if it's made by the same person as Caroline's tiara. This is a really beautiful tiara.

Best regards,

Ayvee

 

[Australian]

In that photo, why is Caroline wearing a "M" ? It looks like Mary's insignia, or is it Margrethe's? What is earing it meant to signify?

 

[Henri M.]

In that photo, why is Caroline wearing a "M" ? It looks like Mary's insignia, or is it Margrethe's? What is earing it meant to signify?

It is usance at some royal courts. A ribbon with a crowned 'M' (Denmark) or, for an example, a crowned 'B' (Netherlands) worn on the lapels or the dress.
It indicates that a person belongs to the personal entourage of the Queen.

In the case of Lady Heering, I don't know if it is the monogram of the Queen or the Crown Princess.

In the Netherlands (and I believe in many other monarchies as well) the Chamberlains wear a ribbon with a golden key on the back of their ceremonial uniform, symbolizing their privilege to have close access to the Sovereign. In the past that was the King's Bedchamber or the Queen's Appartments.

This is no longer so, but the symbols have survived.

 

[Australian]

Thanks for that Henri M, much appreciated. The "M" is for Mary because it looks like her insignia according to the picture of it on wikipedia. Margrethe's has two "R's" under her M, unlike Mary.

 

[Lasse Pedersen]

Thanks for that Henri M, much appreciated. The "M" is for Mary because it looks like her insignia according to the picture of it on wikipedia. Margrethe's has two "R's" under her M, unlike Mary.

Actually, HM Queen Margrethe II's monogram has only one "R" in the bottom right and a "2" at the bottom left, and thus it 'reads' "M(argrethe) 2 R(egina)", the latter being Latin for 'Queen'.

Her Majesty's monogram, along with the monograms of the other members of the Danish Royal House can be seen at the official website of the Danish Monarchy and discussed in the TRF thread The Danish Orders and Monograms.

Cheers
Lasse Pedersen!

 

[ayvee]

In that photo, why is Caroline wearing a "M" ? It looks like Mary's insignia, or is it Margrethe's? What is earing it meant to signify?

I think it means Caroline is on duty as Princess Mary's lady-in-waiting. This seems to be a standard in Denmark.

-Ayvee

 

[Lady Bluffton]

Oh my gosh! This is the first time I have seen Caroline's tiara and what do you know, I recognized it right away! It is exactly the same as a diamond tiara owned by the Duke and Duchess of Westminster. Same number of leaves in the same angles including the bezels.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m319/ay...instertiara.jpg
Photo is scanned from 'Tiaras, A History of Splendour' by Geoffrey Munn p. 299

I wonder if it's made by the same person as Caroline's tiara. This is a really beautiful tiara.

Best regards,

Ayvee

Anybody have a clue if the tiara belongs to Caroline's or her husband's family, or if it was borrowed?

Cheers!

 

[Henri M.]

The diademe seems to be a heirloom from Lady Heering's family, so it was said on the Royal Jewels Message Board.

 

[BurberryBrit]

Pardon my ignorance, but why does Caroline wear a tiara? Is she titled? Also, on what occasions is she allowed to wear it? (is there protocol for this?)