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  #461  
Old 12-27-2021, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Most likely she will remain known as prinses Maria Laura, like her aunts are always referred to as prinses Marie-Christine, prinses Maria Esmeralda and prinses Margareta. Her sister-in-law is usually mentioned as prinses Elisabetta.
Who is Margareta? But yes, the Palace refers to her great-aunts as Princess Esmeralda and Princess Marie-Christine. However, Esmeralda (who lives in England) and Marie-Christine (who lives in the United States) use their husbands' surnames in their private lives.

Her mother Princess Astrid, who as I said above is known officially as HRH Princess Astrid, and who lives in Belgium, does not use her husband's surname and signs her correspondence "Astrid of Belgium".
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  #462  
Old 12-27-2021, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Who is Margareta? But yes, the Palace refers to her great-aunts as Princess Esmeralda and Princess Marie-Christine. However, Esmeralda (who lives in England) and Marie-Christine (who lives in the United States) use their husbands' surnames in their private lives.

Her mother Princess Astrid, who as I said above is known officially as HRH Princess Astrid, and who lives in Belgium, does not use her husband's surname and signs her correspondence "Astrid of Belgium".
Margareta is a daughter of Maria Laura's Luxembourg grandparents Jean and Joséphine-Charlotte. She is married to a Liechtenstein Prince but usually she is popularly referred to as prinses Margareta. The three Benelux countries are very similar, due to shared history. The three younger daughters of Queen Juliana, irrespective their husbands' surnames and eventual titles kept their known style too. Like in Belgium and Luxembourg they also remained known as prinses Irene, prinses Margriet, prinses Christina as that simply is their commonly known style, for a lifetime.
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  #463  
Old 12-27-2021, 07:44 AM
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Margaretha is not an aunt (nor greataunt) of Maria Laura. Just one of her mother's paternal cousins. Jean and Josephine-Charlotte aren't her grandparents either but her greataunt and greatuncle. Josephine-Charlotte was her grandfather Albert's elder sister, while Maria Esmeralda and Marie Christine are his younger half-sisters.

And Margaretha, just like her sister Marie-Astrid, married a fellow royal and not a commoner. So, of course she is known as princess as she is both a princess vuz Liechtenstein (by marriage) and a princess of Luxembourg etc (by birth). So, her situation is not comparanle to that of Maria Laura.
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  #464  
Old 12-27-2021, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Margareta is a daughter of Maria Laura's Luxembourg grandparents Jean and Joséphine-Charlotte. She is married to a Liechtenstein Prince but usually she is popularly referred to as prinses Margareta. .

But what is wrong about that. As she has married a Prince.
And btw. i didn't know that Maria Laura is a granddaughter of Jean and Joséphine-Charlotte. I always thought Joséphine-Charlotte was her great-aunt
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  #465  
Old 03-03-2022, 03:28 PM
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As it has to do with a post I am writing, I am copying a couple of old comments to this thread.


Looking once again at Princess Anna Astrid's birth registration, it lists her as

Son Altesse Impériale et Royale la Princesse Anna Astrid Marie Archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)

Translation:

Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsburg-Lorraine)


https://www.lesoir.be/53935/article/...us-de-belgique



As shown in the rules of the Belgian national register, the only titles of nobility that are registered with a designation are "King/Queen of the Belgians", "Prince/ss of Belgium" and "Duke/Duchess of Brabant". All other titles of nobility are legally in the form "Prince/ss", "Duke/Duchess" etc. without further designation, even if they are associated with a surname (which is a separate thing).

https://www.ibz.rrn.fgov.be/fileadmi...e_noblesse.pdf

code titre : le titre de noblesse est codé par 2 chiffres conformément au tableau ci-dessous :
01
Prince
02
Princesse

03
Duc
04
Duchesse
05
Marquis
06
Marquise
07
Comte
08
Comtesse
09
Vicomte
10
Vicomtesse
11
Baron
12
Baronne
13
Chevalier
15
Ecuyer
17
Archiduc
18
Archiduchesse

19
Grand-Duc
20
Grande-Duchesse
21
Roi des Belges
22
Reine des Belges
23
Prince de Belgique
24
Princesse de Belgique
25
Duc de Brabant,
Prince de Belgique
26
Duchesse de Brabant,
Princesse de Belgique


As seen in the regulations above, "Princesse" and "Archiduchesse" are recognized as legal titles in the national registration, whereas "Archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este" is not. Under the legal rules, "d'Autriche-Este" is part of the surname: "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)".
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  #466  
Old 03-03-2022, 03:47 PM
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The Children of Prince Amadeo are not Princes of Belgium anymore
Princess Maria Laura will keep her title her whole life.

It will be Monsieur William Isvy et la Princesse Maria Laura.
Such as Sir Salvador Moncada and Princess Esmeralda.
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  #467  
Old 03-12-2022, 01:58 PM
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Because TRF's security settings are not allowing me to post multiple links in one comment, these are the decrees I am quoting in the next post. (If a moderator could merge or edit the posts, I would appreciate it.)

Royal decree consenting to the marriage of Prince Amedeo, in Dutch
Royal decree consenting to the marriage of Prince Amedeo, in French

Royal decree consenting to the marriage of Princess Maria Laura, in Dutch
Royal decree consenting to the marriage of Princess Maria Laura, in French
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  #468  
Old 03-12-2022, 02:04 PM
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For Belgian legal purposes, the surname of Prince Lorenz and his male-line descendants is "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" (see the explanation in the post I made in this thread on March 3).


However, the surname did not appear in the 2015 royal decree declaring the King's retroactive consent to Prince Amedeo's marriage.


Enig artikel. Instemming wordt verleend met het huwelijk van Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Amedeo, Prins van België, met Mevrouw Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, voltrokken op 5 juli 2014.

Consentement est accordé au mariage de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Amedeo, Prince de Belgique, avec Madame Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, célébré le 5 juillet 2014.

(Consent is given for the marriage of His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo, Prince of Belgium, to Mrs. Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, conducted on 5 July 2014.)



So, it is interesting that the surname did appear in the royal decree declaring the king's consent to Princess Maria Laura's marriage (which I will write about shortly in her engagement thread).

Interestingly, even in the Dutch version of the decree, the French version of the princess's surname is used.


De door artikel 85, tweede lid, van de Grondwet voorziene toestemming tot het huwelijk van Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid Prinses Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Prinses van België, met de Heer William Isvy, wordt verleend.

Est accordé le consentement prévu à l'article 85, alinéa 2, de la Constitution au mariage de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princesse de Belgique, avec Monsieur William Isvy.

(The consent as foreseen in Article 85, second paragraph, of the Constitution is given for the marriage of Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium, to Mr. William Isvy.)


(The links to the decrees are in the previous post.)


I would be interested in knowing why the legal surname was used for Maria Laura but omitted for her brother Amedeo, especially seeing as Amedeo has used both "of Belgium" and "of Habsburg" professionally, whereas Laura has used only "of Belgium".

And why is the French version of the surname used in the Dutch version of the decree? The proper Dutch translation would be "van Oostenrijk-Este (Habsburg-Lotharingen)".
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  #469  
Old 03-12-2022, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The Children of Prince Amadeo are not Princes of Belgium anymore
Princess Maria Laura will keep her title her whole life.

It will be Monsieur William Isvy et la Princesse Maria Laura.
Such as Sir Salvador Moncada and Princess Esmeralda.
Yes Princess Marie-Esméralda of Belgium has the additional British title of Lady Moncada as the wife of a knight.
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  #470  
Old 03-12-2022, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
It will be Monsieur William Isvy et la Princesse Maria Laura.
That is my prediction as well, but nothing has been confirmed officially.


Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Such as Sir Salvador Moncada and Princess Esmeralda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Yes Princess Marie-Esméralda of Belgium has the additional British title of Lady Moncada as the wife of a knight.
Under the law of Britain, she is entitled, though not required, to use Lady Moncada, the feminine form of her husband's title.

Under the law of Belgium, she is not legally allowed to use a foreign title of nobility, as a Belgian citizen.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/ser...s/nobility/faq

11. As a Belgian, can I use a foreign title of nobility?

No. This is even a punishable act under art. 230 of the Belgian Criminal Code.
Foreign titles awarded to Belgians therefore have no value in Belgium; moreover, they can never be the subject of a recognition procedure.

However, I imagine Princess Esmeralda would still be allowed to use Mrs. Moncada under Belgian law.
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  #471  
Old 03-12-2022, 02:57 PM
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Regarding the use of foreign titles... It's interesting that on the one hand it states that a Belgian cannot use a foreign title but the explanation focuses on not having value 'in Belgium' and the impossibility of having the title recognized (in Belgium I suppose). Which seems to leave room for the possibility of using the title outside of Belgium.
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  #472  
Old 03-12-2022, 05:43 PM
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Prince Lorenz uses 4 tittles abroad .
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  #473  
Old 03-12-2022, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Prince Lorenz uses 4 tittles abroad .
Does Prince Lorenz's wife Princess Astrid use four titles abroad?
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  #474  
Old 03-12-2022, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Does Prince Lorenz's wife Princess Astrid use four titles abroad?
I've only ever seen Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este.
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  #475  
Old 03-12-2022, 07:16 PM
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The one occasion for which I have read that Princess Astrid used both her own title and her husband's title/surname (Princess of Belgium and Archduchess of Austria-Este) after Belgium's adoption of equal primogeniture was in the Royal Family section of the 2017 edition of Le Carnet Mondain (as it was quoted in a Le Soir article discussed earlier in this thread). On that occasion, she also used Duchess of Saxony and Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, like the other male-line descendants of King Leopold I. (However, the information was communicated to Le Carnet Mondain by the Palace, not by the princess personally.)

In all other contexts and documents (including the official website of the Belgian monarchy at monarchie.be) I have only seen Astrid use her official title of HRH Princess Astrid, Princess of Belgium or shortened versions (HRH Princess Astrid, Astrid of Belgium, etc.).
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  #476  
Old 03-12-2022, 07:22 PM
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I don't remember how she was called when King Baudouin was still living ? They lived in Bale.
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  #477  
Old 03-13-2022, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

So, it is interesting that the surname did appear in the royal decree declaring the king's consent to Princess Maria Laura's marriage (which I will write about shortly in her engagement thread).

Interestingly, even in the Dutch version of the decree, the French version of the princess's surname is used.

De door artikel 85, tweede lid, van de Grondwet voorziene toestemming tot het huwelijk van Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid Prinses Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Prinses van België, met de Heer William Isvy, wordt verleend.

Est accordé le consentement prévu à l'article 85, alinéa 2, de la Constitution au mariage de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princesse de Belgique, avec Monsieur William Isvy.

(The consent as foreseen in Article 85, second paragraph, of the Constitution is given for the marriage of Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium, to Mr. William Isvy.)

(The links to the decrees are in the previous post.)


I would be interested in knowing why the legal surname was used for Maria Laura but omitted for her brother Amedeo, especially seeing as Amedeo has used both "of Belgium" and "of Habsburg" professionally, whereas Laura has used only "of Belgium".

And why is the French version of the surname used in the Dutch version of the decree? The proper Dutch translation would be "van Oostenrijk-Este (Habsburg-Lotharingen)".



Princess of Austria-Este is wrong anyway as it then not Princess but Archduchess and not Royal Highness but Imperial and Royal Highness.
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  #478  
Old 03-13-2022, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Princess of Austria-Este is wrong anyway as it then not Princess but Archduchess and not Royal Highness but Imperial and Royal Highness.
It must be read as princesse (Belgian title of nobility) in combination with d'Autriche-Este (surname). After the comma follows the "functional title" princesse de Belgique.

But Belgium is not known for being precize. It looks inconsistent.
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  #479  
Old 03-13-2022, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It must be read as princesse (Belgian title of nobility) in combination with d'Autriche-Este (surname). After the comma follows the "functional title" princesse de Belgique.

But Belgium is not known for being precize. It looks inconsistent.

Then it would make more sense to have HRH Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este, Princess of Belgium.
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  #480  
Old 03-13-2022, 06:05 AM
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Princess/Prince has always preceded the royal person's first name, whether or not the surname is used. See how Princess Claire was noted in the official announcement about her conferral with the Order of Leopold.


Bij koninklijk besluit van 14 juli 2004 werd benoemd :
Grootlint
Prinses Claire Coombs, Prinses van België.

Par arrêté royal du 14 juillet 2004 a été nommée :
Grand Cordon
la Princesse Claire Coombs, Princesse de Belgique.

(By royal decree of 14 July 2004 was awarded:
Grand Ribbon
Princess Claire Coombs, Princess of Belgium.)

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cg...32&caller=list

Coombs is the legal surname of Princess Claire.

"d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" is the legal surname of Princess Maria Laura. (Refer to the explanation in the post on March 3: https://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...ml#post2455661)


And the designation of Princess/Prince preceding the first name is independent of the functional title of Princess/Prince of Belgium. Maria Laura's niece Anna Astrid is registered as Princess Anna Astrid but, under the royal decree of 2015, does not have the title Princess of Belgium.
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