Titles of the Belgian Royal Family 1: Ending Aug.2023

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Philippe, son of King Leopold I of Belgium, was created Count of Flanders on December 14, 1840. Was the name Flanders chosen because of its historical significance?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Prince Philippe, son of King Leopold I of Belgium, was created Count of Flanders on December 14, 1840. Was the name Flanders chosen because of its historical significance?

The Countdom of Flanders was a historic territory in the Low Countries and modern day Belgium.
The title dated back to 862 but was suppressed by the French in 1795 following the French Occupation.
The title Count of Flanders was later awarded by Belgian kings to the second son and the last title holder died in 1983.
In October 2001 ,the title of Count of Flanders was abolished by King Albert II.

 

[maria-olivia]

Cabriel ,Emmanuel and Eléonore are Princes of Belgium a good thing .

 

[An Ard Ri]

Had the Titles not been revoked Prince Gabriel could have been Count of Flanders!

 

[maria-olivia]

We don't know the future of Belgium ??

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In October 2001 ,the title of Count of Flanders was abolished by King Albert II.

No, it wasn't. The October 16, 2001 decree only dealt with the titles Duke of Brabant and Count of Hainaut. It abolished the rule (set down in the Royal Decree of September 10, 1930) that the title Count of Hainaut was automatically awarded to the eldest son of the Duke of Brabant, and introduced a gender-neutral rule for the title Duke (Duchess) of Brabant.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalbelge.htm#Hainaut
https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalbelge.htm#Brabant

The titles Prince of Liège and Count of Flanders had never been made automatic, and no one held them in 2001 (the last Count of Flanders died in 1983 and the last Prince of Liège acceded to the throne in 1993), so there was no need for the King to take any action. By simply not awarding them again, the titles will not return.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalbelge.htm#Liège

There is no legal obstacle to the King (with the consent of the Government, which is required for any Royal Decree) recreating any of the titles of historic territories. But that might dilute the current framework of the Belgian monarchy as a unifying symbol between the Flemish and Wallonian provinces.

The title Count of Flanders was later awarded by Belgian kings to the second son and the last title holder died in 1983.

The title was awarded to the second sons of Kings Leopold I and Albert I, but never awarded to the second sons of King Leopold III (his second son was created Prince of Liège at birth, probably because his uncle the Count of Flanders was still living at the time), King Albert II or King Filip (the latter two decided not to confer subsidiary titles on their younger children). As a result, the number of second sons of Kings of the Belgians who have not held the title Count of Flanders now exceeds the number of second sons who have held it.

Prince Philippe, son of King Leopold I of Belgium, was created Count of Flanders on December 14, 1840. Was the name Flanders chosen because of its historical significance?

Yes indeed. The report to the king published with the decree (refer to link above) explained:

Vous pourrez, sire, emprunter à l'histoire des noms qui vivent dans la mémoire du peuple; qui, en renouant la chaîne des traditions du pays, attacheront à la monarchie nouvelle, symbole et force de l'unité nationale, la puissance des souvenirs d'un autre temps, et viendront confondre sur des têtes chères aux Belges, les gloires du passé avec les espérances de l'avenir.

(You shall be able, sir, to borrow from the history of the names that live on in the popular memory; which, by relinking the chain of national traditions, shall attach the power of remembrances of another time to the new monarchy, the symbol and force of our national unity, and shall entwine the glories of the past with the aspirations for the future in the minds of the dear Belgians.)
​

 

[An Ard Ri]

We don't know the future of Belgium ??

Or any other country/Kingdom either!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The members of the Royal Family are not "Princes/Princesses" by virtue of having the title of "Prince/Princess of Belgium",

Yes, that's correct.

but rather by virtue of the conditions set out in the royal decrees [...]

No, their status as Princes/Princesses is not dependent on royal decrees. The members of the Royal Family already were Princes/Princesses from the moment that the Royal Family was founded in 1833, nearly 60 years before the first of the Prince/Princess of Belgium royal decrees was passed in 1891. Please see my answer to macedonsky:

Continued from the previous post ...

In message #442, which was posted later, you seem to have acknowledged that the members of the Belgian royal family were styled as princes/ses before 1891, though you continued to state that it was "custom" and not "law". I appreciate the concession, but the comment that the royals were not legally created princes/ses until 1891 conflicts with the myriad legal documents, filed before 1891, representing members of the royal family as "prince/ss".

Again, see how Princess Henriette's father the Count of Flanders was cited in her birth certificate in 1870 (image in the linked page):

Son Altesse Royale Monseigneur le Prince Philippe-Eugène-Ferdinand-Marie-Clément-Baudouin-Léopold-George Comte de Flandre, Duc de Saxe, Prince de Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha​

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2018/12/03/henriette/


Morever, all of the royal decrees which were used to confer personal dynastic titles on male members of the royal family (the earliest one was issued in 1840) used "prince" preceding their names. For example:

"Art 1er. Notre fils bien-aimé le prince Léopold-(...) prendra le titre de Duc de Brabant. Ce titre sera toujours à l'avenir, porté par le prince fils aîné du roi, et, à son défaut, par le prince petit-fils aîné du roi.

Art. 2. Notre fils bien-aimé le prince Philippe-(...) prendra le titre de comte de Flandre."
​

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalbelge.htm#Brabant

 

[Notsamuel]

Hey, i have a question, what would happen if, per se, one of the princes were to renounce all of his titles in the Belgian royal family, would Gabriel still be called, ''of Belgium''? would he start using ''of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha'' or would he adopt a new suname?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you for moving the question to this thread! I am also pasting the previous answers:

I don’t know if there is a scenario for that.

The last royal who broke all relations with the family is Princess Marie-Christine and she didn’t change her name.

But every Belgian can change their family name if they want to and meet certain requierments.
You need a serious motivation and the new name you chose may not lead to confusion or damage you or someone else.
The King had to approve (not just for royals but for all Belgians) and every demand is reviewed individually.

Gabriel is a Prince of Belgium by virtue of being a grandson of King Albert II under Art. 2 of the Royal Decree of 12/11/2015 . I don't think it is possible for him to "renounce" that title legally.



Even if Gabriel married without consent and were excluded from the line of succession, he would still be a Prince of Belgium since the title is not tied to succession rights.

But as a brief summary, the legal surname of the male-line descendants of Leopold I (the first king of Belgium) is controversial. Some legal and royal experts contend that it is "of Saxe-Coburg", others contend that it is "of Belgium", and some even argue that they legally possess no surname at all. Although the Princes and Princesses of Belgium informally use "of Belgium" as a surname when attending school and conducting their professional lives, King Philippe considers his legal surname to be "of Saxe-Coburg", and he issued a royal decree in 2015 purporting to clarify the family name - however, most experts have commented that the decree merely added to the confusion, instead of clarifying it. The Brussels Court of Appeals concurred with the king's position and changed Delphine Boël's legal surname to "of Saxe-Coburg" when it decreed her the legal daughter of King Albert II in 2020.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

This week Prince Gabriel ended his primary military education. It was interesting he wore the patronym Van Saksen-Coburg on his uniform while his sister had Van België on her uniform. (Both went to the Dutch speaking component, therefore the Dutch version of the names).

Interesting that - after Delphine- this is the second confirmation that the name Van Saksen-Coburg / De Saxe-Cobourg was only discontinued after 1918 but not removed.

 

[theroyalfly]

This week Prince Gabriel ended his primary military education. It was interesting he wore the patronym Van Saksen-Coburg on his uniform while his sister had Van België on her uniform. (Both went to the Dutch speaking component, therefore the Dutch version of the names).

Interesting that - after Delphine- this is the second confirmation that the name Van Saksen-Coburg / De Saxe-Cobourg was only discontinued after 1918 but not removed.

The Royal Palace has told the Editors of HLN this, "Van Saksen-Coburg is the official name of the royal family, so Gabriel uses it at the KMS. In theory Elisabeth would also have done that, but at the time it was symbolically deviated from. She uses her title of Princess of Belgium. "She is the direct heir to the throne and she followed the example of her father King Filip, who (during his army training between 1978 and 1981, ed.) was also registered as 'Van België'."

It's true the first one to use Van Saksen-Coburg in the royal family in years was Delphine. And now we have Gabriel.

Van Saksen-Coburg vs van Belgie

 

[Marengo]

An interesting change. AFAIK they all used 'de Belgique/ van België' up to now. There is an interview with Pss Esmeralda when she says so. I suppose it is good that the change affects the King's own children as well, it will make it easier to swallow for the rest of the family perhaps.

As it is the first time we hear about it, I do think that at f.e. secondary school Gabriel will still have used the 'de Belgique/ van België' as a last name. We would have known if that was not the case

 

[Prinsara]

...so do they still intend to be van Saksen-Coburg for Elisabeth's children, or will that decision be kicked somewhere further down the road?

 

[theroyalfly]

This came as a shock to me too. Following the DRF issue, questions were raised as to why his sister who attended KMS a year ago used 'van België' and not 'van Saksen-Coburg.' Then I remembered Delphine who uses van Saksen-Coburg too in her social media.

I wonder whether this change was prompted thanks to the visit of King Philip and Queen Mathilde to the ancestral Friedenstein Castle years back. It should be noted that shortly after their visit, the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha main royal arms or the Saxonian escutcheon was reinstated in the all royal versions of the family's coat of arms in 2019.

 

[Marengo]

The article does not give a clear answer to that question. So I imagine that means that the palace is not very clear about it either. The article is argueing that using this last name is not a change at all. Although that may be how the palace wants to present it, I am not quite sure if that is the complete truth. At this point I would say the Belgian court keeps us guessing, which is not very unlike them as the issue with the title for Elisabetta also took us some years to resolve - up to the point that I am not even sure if there ever was a conclusion .

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Legally, the change (although the King would claim it is a "clarification" and not a change) was already made in 2015 when King Philippe issued a royal decree on the matter.

I've written many lengthy posts about it in this thread and will try to find and repost them again later.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is written in the stars that also Belgium will follow suit:

Denmark
Royal House - prins (prinsesse) af Danmark

Wider relatives:
greve (komtesse) af Monpezat


Netherlands
Royal House - prins (prinses) der Nederlanden, prins (prinses) van Oranje-Nassau

Wider relatives:
gaaf (gravin) van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg


Luxembourg
Grand-Ducal House - prince (princesse) de Luxembourg, prince (princesse) de Nassau

Wider relatives:
prince (princesse) de Nassau
comte (comtesse) de Nassau


Belgium
Royal House - prins (prinses) van België, prins (prinses) van Saksen-Coburg

Wider relatives:
prins (prinses) van Saksen-Coburg


-> mark my words!

 

[Tatiana Maria]

[...] that the name Van Saksen-Coburg / De Saxe-Cobourg was only discontinued after 1918 but not removed.

First, I am reposting what I wrote on the last page of this thread:


As explicitly stated in the official government report on the 1891 royal decree, the 1891 decree already installed "of Belgium" as a family name (but not as the only family name, as the royal family still preserved the Saxe-Coburg name for the moment).

What actually occurred after World War One was that in October of 1920, the director of the Orders and Nobility department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs sent a letter to the King's chief of staff, inquiring whether the King continued to bear his German titles.

Sometime in April of 1921 (the various sources I have used do not agree on the precise date), the King's chief of staff wrote the Ministry of Foreign of Affairs a letter of reply, in which he indicated that the King had decided to drop the Saxon titles from future official documents.

There are two points of note:

First, no royal decree or other legal document was ever promulgated to legalize the change.

Second, the modification was only applied to royals who were born after King Albert I's decision of 1921. The Saxon titles appeared in the death certificates of King Albert I in 1934, the marriage certificate of King Leopold III in 1941, and the death certificate of King Leopold III in 1983, as they were born before 1921 and the Saxon titles had already been entered into their civil registrations. Leopold III also declared in a letter of 1941 that his wife Lilian was entitled by marriage to him to bear the titles of Duchess of Saxony, Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

For those who are new to the subject, this article is a good introduction to the history of the debate over the royal surname.

https://www.lesoir.be/53935/article...ur-les-princes-qui-ne-seront-plus-de-belgique


(To be continued.)

 

[Tatiana Maria]

A few quick answers:

Must be a recent tradition. Albert and Paola were always the Prince and Princess of Liège, were they not? And this title was kept because it's the only one that works bilingually.

No, both "Prince Albert and Princess Paola" (as an example, see Prince Laurent's birth announcement) and "the Prince and Princess of Liège" were formally used throughout the reign of King Baudouin.

Leopold I first Child Louis Philippe was Comte de Hainaut, he died suddenly, the

Louis-Philippe was called the Prince Royal, in the same manner as the French crown prince, in his own lifetime. The custom of conferring Belgian princes with personal titles taken from medieval Belgian dynasties was only introduced by the Royal Decree of December 16, 1840, after the prince's death.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalbelge.htm#Brabant

Furthermore, it is unclear if the great-grandchildren who are no longer HRHs will still remain plain Princes/Princesses nonetheless. The new heraldry of the Royal Family provides for a differenced royal coat of arms for Princes and Princesses who are not "Prince/Princess of Belgium", i.e., HRHs. Maybe they will be Princes/Princesses in the dynastic sense, but not have Prince/Princess prefixed to their names. I guess we will see that shortly with Princess Maria Laura's children (Amedeo's children's case is not clear-cut because of their Habsburg titles).

For Belgium I think we will have to wait to see what happens with Prince Laurent's sons. If Princess Maria Laura's children are untitled it may simply be because Article 4 of the 2015 decree follows the laws of nobility (legitimate male-line descent).

I can't help but looking at this difference in the light of the recent changes in the other European Royal Houses, which are trying, in a way or another, to distinguish between the direct line of succesion and the other members of the royal family.

I'm not sure if this relates to your speculation, but Princess Maria Laura's legal surname "d'Autriche-Este (Habsburg-Lorraine)" was used in the King's decree consenting to her marriage in 2022, but not for the corresponding decree for her brother Prince Amedeo in 2015, even though neither are in the direct line of succession.

https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...elgian-royal-family-38975-24.html#post2456977

 

[Somebody]

For Belgian legal purposes, the surname of Prince Lorenz and his male-line descendants is "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" (see the explanation in the post I made in this thread on March 3).


However, the surname did not appear in the 2015 royal decree declaring the King's retroactive consent to Prince Amedeo's marriage.

Enig artikel. Instemming wordt verleend met het huwelijk van Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Amedeo, Prins van België, met Mevrouw Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, voltrokken op 5 juli 2014.

Consentement est accordé au mariage de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Amedeo, Prince de Belgique, avec Madame Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, célébré le 5 juillet 2014.

(Consent is given for the marriage of His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo, Prince of Belgium, to Mrs. Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, conducted on 5 July 2014.)

​

So, it is interesting that the surname did appear in the royal decree declaring the king's consent to Princess Maria Laura's marriage (which I will write about shortly in her engagement thread).

Interestingly, even in the Dutch version of the decree, the French version of the princess's surname is used.

De door artikel 85, tweede lid, van de Grondwet voorziene toestemming tot het huwelijk van Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid Prinses Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Prinses van België, met de Heer William Isvy, wordt verleend.

Est accordé le consentement prévu à l'article 85, alinéa 2, de la Constitution au mariage de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princesse de Belgique, avec Monsieur William Isvy.

(The consent as foreseen in Article 85, second paragraph, of the Constitution is given for the marriage of Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium, to Mr. William Isvy.)

​

(The links to the decrees are in the previous post.)


I would be interested in knowing why the legal surname was used for Maria Laura but omitted for her brother Amedeo, especially seeing as Amedeo has used both "of Belgium" and "of Habsburg" professionally, whereas Laura has used only "of Belgium".

And why is the French version of the surname used in the Dutch version of the decree? The proper Dutch translation would be "van Oostenrijk-Este (Habsburg-Lotharingen)".

Didn't the 'Saxe-Coburg' decision take place in 2015? So after Amedeo's marriage and before Maria Laura's? (or am I mistaken in my timeline) Could that be (part of) the reason for the difference. That since the royal family now has an established surname other than 'de Belgique', the king intends to use those surnames - which will be 'van/de Saksen/Saxe-Coburg' for the children of himself and Laurent and 'd'Austriche-Este (Habsburg-Loraine)' or indeed 'van Oostenrijk Este (Habsburg-Lotharingen)' for the children of Astrid and Lorenz.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Didn't the 'Saxe-Coburg' decision take place in 2015? So after Amedeo's marriage and before Maria Laura's? (or am I mistaken in my timeline) Could that be (part of) the reason for the difference. That since the royal family now has an established surname other than 'de Belgique', the king intends to use those surnames - which will be 'van/de Saksen/Saxe-Coburg' for the children of himself and Laurent and 'd'Austriche-Este (Habsburg-Loraine)' or indeed 'van Oostenrijk Este (Habsburg-Lotharingen)' for the children of Astrid and Lorenz.

Both decrees were gazetted on November 24, 2015 with effect from November 12, 2015.

Royal decree reforming and clarifying the titles and surnames of the royal family:
https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c..._date=2015-11-24&numac=2015021075&caller=list

Royal decree granting retroactive consent to the (2014) marriage of Prince Amedeo:
https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c..._date=2015-11-24&numac=2015021074&caller=list

Legally, the change (although the King would claim it is a "clarification" and not a change) was already made in 2015 when King Philippe issued a royal decree on the matter.

I've written many lengthy posts about it in this thread and will try to find and repost them again later.

To begin with, here is a repost of my earlier post on why "of Belgium" was popularly perceived, between 1891 and 2015, as the surname of the royal family.

[...]


1. Belgian concepts of law


Substantive information and evidence for how Belgian law interprets surnames and titles is set out in Post 2. But in short, in Belgium, a member of the nobility such as Princess Alix of Ligne is not technically a Princess of Ligne as no such title is legally registered. In accordance with Belgian law, she has the title Princess and the surname "of Ligne".

If the law should treat the titles and surnames of Princess Astrid of Belgium in the same way as those of Princess Alix of Ligne, Astrid would legally have the title Princess and the surname "of Belgium".




2. No other reasonable alternative for male-line royal princesses/princes born after 1921

Duchess/Duke of Saxony and Princess/Prince of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha were excluded from the documents of descendants of Leopold I born after April 1921 (refer to Post 4), as shown in for instance the marriage act of Prince Laurent, where his name was listed as

Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Laurent Benoît Baudouin Marie, Prins van België

Son Altesse Royale le Prince Laurent Benoît Baudouin Marie, Prince de Belgique

(His Royal Highness Prince Laurent Benoît Baudouin Marie, Prince of Belgium)
​

The Civil Code stipulates all citizens should mention their surname in official records. (I will elaborate on this requirement in another post.) It has no exemption in the case of the royal family.

Due to this rule, Laurent could not be surnameless in his marriage act, which as quoted above names him as "His Royal Highness Prince Laurent Benoît Baudouin Marie, Prince of Belgium". If the legal rules were followed, his surname should be someplace within "His Royal Highness Prince Laurent Benoît Baudouin Marie, Prince of Belgium".

His Royal Highness, Laurent Benoît Baudouin Marie, and Prince are evidently not surnames. With the other alternatives exhausted, his surname has to be "of Belgium".



As Princess Esmeralda once said in an interview:

Vous vous appelez « de Belgique » ?

C’est ce qui est écrit sur mon passeport. Nous n’avons pas d’autre nom, puisque Saxe Cobourg a été abandonné avant la Première Guerre mondiale par mon grand-père.


Your name is "of Belgium"?

That's what is written in my passport. We have no other surname, since Saxe Coburg was abandoned before [sic] the First World War by my grandfather.
​

3. Original meaning of the 1891 Royal Decree


The Government that passed the Royal Decree of 1891 (discussed in Post 4) understood "of Belgium" to be a surname. The official report included with the decree stated:

Après 60 ans d’une vie nationale à laquelle la maison royale est si indissolublement liée, ses membres ne portent ni nom ni titre qui les rattache directement au pays.

Dans le sein de la grande famille belge où, à tous les titres, ils sont les premiers, on ne les désigne que par leur prénom, mais, à l'étranger, on qualifie nos princes et nos princesses du nom de la Belgique et tel est bien le nom qui leur revient.
​

Translation:

After 60 years of a national life to which the royal house is indissolubly bound, its members carry neither surname nor title that attaches them directly to the country.

Within the great Belgian family where, of all the titles, they are paramount, they are referred to by only their forename, but abroad, our princes and our princesses are designated by the name of Belgium and that is the surname to which they are entitled.
​

Le Soir also raises the point that this is the only legal text prior to 2015 to specifically mention the "surname" of the royal family.




4. Recognition in personal documents


"Of Belgium" has appeared in the surname box in blood princesses'/princes' birth acts and identity cards.

Leur acte de naissance ou carte d’identité porte donc le nom « de Belgique ». [...]

« Dans les actes de naissance, nous confirme-t-on à bonne source, c’est le titre “prince de Belgique,” qui apparaît dans la case “nom’. On considère donc que le nom est “de Belgique,” quand on a en même temps le titre “prince de Belgique”. [...] »
​

Translation:

(Their birth act or identification card thus bears the surname "of Belgium". [...]

"In the birth acts," a reliable source confirmed to us, "it is the title 'prince of Belgium' which appears in the box 'surname'. So we consider the surname to be 'of Belgium' when they simultaneously have the title 'prince of Belgium'. [...]")
​

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The previous post discussed the surname situation prior to King Philippe's Royal Decree of November 12, 2015. Here is the explanation from that Royal Decree concerning the royal family name:

Dutch:

Overwegende dat het met het oog op de toepassing van de wet van 8 mei 2014 tot wijziging van het Burgerlijk Wetboek met het oog op de invoering van de gelijkheid tussen mannen en vrouwen bij de wijze van naamsoverdracht aan het kind en aan de geadopteerde, en de wet van 8 augustus 1983 tot regeling van een Rijksregister van de natuurlijke personen, en met het oog op de deelname van leden van de Koninklijke Familie aan het economisch leven, het aangewezen is om zo veel mogelijk verwarring tussen de familienaam en de titels te vermijden;
​

French:

Considérant qu'aux fins de l'application de la loi du 8 mai 2014 modifiant le Code civil en vue d'instaurer l'égalité de l'homme et de la femme dans le mode de transmission du nom à l'enfant et à l'adopté, et de la loi du 8 août 1983 organisant un registre national des personnes physiques, et aux fins de la participation à la vie économique de membres de la Famille Royale, il convient d'éviter le plus possible la confusion entre le nom de famille et les titres;
​

Translation:

Whereas for the purposes of application of the Law of 8 May 2014 on the amendment of the Civil Code with the object of introducing equality between men and women in the mode of surname transmission to children and adoptees, and of the Law of 8 August 1983 on the organization of a national register of natural persons, and for the purposes of participation by members of the Royal Family in economic life, it is necessary to prevent confusion between the family name and the titles to the extent possible;
​

The decree implemented the following changes to the structure used for naming Princes and Princesses of Belgium in the national register ("public and private acts"):

2015 Royal Decree:

Article 1. In the public and private acts relating to them, the Princes and the Princesses [...] carry the title of Prince or of Princess of Belgium following their forename and, so far as they carry them, their family name and their dynastic title and ahead of the other titles to which their ancestry gives them the right. Their forename is preceded by the predicate His or Her Royal Highness.
​

1991 Royal Decree, the previous version:

Article 1. In the public and private acts relating to them, the Princes and the Princesses [...] are referred to as Princes or Princesses of Belgium, following their forenames.
​

Link to the 2015 royal decree: https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c..._date=2015-11-24&numac=2015021075&caller=list

Link to the text of the 1991 royal decree and other documents: https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalbelge.htm#Belgique

 

[Toledo]

I assume the removal of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha identifier was because of WWI. Like when the British Royals switched it to House of Windsor to detach themselves from their cousins in Imperial Germany, right?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I assume the removal of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha identifier was because of WWI. Like when the British Royals switched it to House of Windsor to detach themselves from their cousins in Imperial Germany, right?

Yes it was that very reason

 

[Toledo]

Yes it was that very reason

I have so many royal books in my collection published years or decades after this change in surnames that seem never became aware of it. Like listing always both Belgian, Bulgarian and Portuguese royals under the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha dynasty but correcting the English Royal family into the new Windsor surnames.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I have so many royal books in my collection published years or decades after this change in surnames that seem never became aware of it. Like listing always both Belgian, Bulgarian and Portuguese royals under the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha dynasty but correcting the English Royal family into the new Windsor surnames.

But it is far from certain that the modification of 1921 implied a change of surname or family name, or even had any legal effect.

Even prior to 1921, as discussed earlier, there was no consensus on whether the family name was "of Belgium", "of Saxe-Coburg", both, or neither.

I will repost my earlier comment on the changes of 1921:

As explicitly stated in the official government report on the 1891 royal decree, the 1891 decree already installed "of Belgium" as a family name (but not as the only family name, as the royal family still preserved the Saxe-Coburg name for the moment).

What actually occurred after World War One was that in October of 1920, the director of the Orders and Nobility department of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs sent a letter to the King's chief of staff, inquiring whether the King continued to bear his German titles.

Sometime in April of 1921 (the various sources I have used do not agree on the precise date), the King's chief of staff wrote the Ministry of Foreign of Affairs a letter of reply, in which he indicated that the King had decided to drop the Saxon titles from future official documents.

There are two points of note:

First, no royal decree or other legal document was ever promulgated to legalize the change.

Second, the modification was only applied to royals who were born after King Albert I's decision of 1921. The Saxon titles appeared in the death certificates of King Albert I in 1934, the marriage certificate of King Leopold III in 1941, and the death certificate of King Leopold III in 1983, as they were born before 1921 and the Saxon titles had already been entered into their civil registrations. Leopold III also declared in a letter of 1941 that his wife Lilian was entitled by marriage to him to bear the titles of Duchess of Saxony, Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.

For those who are new to the subject, this article is a good introduction to the history of the debate over the royal surname.

https://www.lesoir.be/53935/article...ur-les-princes-qui-ne-seront-plus-de-belgique

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The princess:

Princess Maria Laura's official style will certainly continue to be HRH Princess Maria Laura, in the same way that her mother (since the succession changes of 1991) is officially styled as HRH Princess Astrid, Princess of Belgium.

https://www.monarchie.be/en/royal-family/princess-astrid

However, if Laura and William continue to live in Britain, I wonder if she will call herself Mrs. Isvy in private life, in accordance with British custom.


Her future husband:

William Isvy will not acquire any legal titles; Prince Amedeo's wife Lili Rosboch did not.

However, the Royal Palace currently styles Lili by courtesy as Princess Elisabetta Rosboch von Wolkenstein, which is often shortened to Princess Elisabetta.

https://www.lesoir.be/246315/articl...dit-le-prince-amedeo-et-sa-femme-annoncent-la
https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...elgian-royal-family-38975-17.html#post2186635

Will the Palace likewise give William Isvy the courtesy style of Prince William Isvy or Prince William after marriage? Probably not, as there is little to no modern precedent in the nobility for a man to be addressed with his spouse's title even as a courtesy, but unlike the nobility, the royal family has introduced gender-equal succession for the descendants of King Albert II.


[...]

As I predicted, King Philippe did not accord a courtesy title to William Isvy, in contrast to the courtesy Princess title he allowed to Elisabetta Rosboch von Wolkenstein. The messages posted on the official social media of the Palace, congratulating the newlyweds on their marriage, referred to the groom as Mr. William Isvy.

Proficiat aan Prinses Maria Laura en dhr. William Isvy! Heel veel geluk toegewenst!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568693191163138049

Félicitations à la Princesse Maria Laura et M. William Isvy ! Tous nos voeux de bonheur!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568692938229829632

Although not a surprise, it is a shame that the King has rolled back the progress made in the previous generation, when the spouse of the King's daughter was, from 1995, treated the same as the spouse of the King's son in regard to titles.

 

[Blog Real]

What title will Princess Elizabeth's future husband have?

Will Princess Eléonore's future husband have the title of prince or another title?

 

[Biri]

As I predicted, King Philippe did not accord a courtesy title to William Isvy, in contrast to the courtesy Princess title he allowed to Elisabetta Rosboch von Wolkenstein. The messages posted on the official social media of the Palace, congratulating the newlyweds on their marriage, referred to the groom as Mr. William Isvy.

Proficiat aan Prinses Maria Laura en dhr. William Isvy! Heel veel geluk toegewenst!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568693191163138049

Félicitations à la Princesse Maria Laura et M. William Isvy ! Tous nos voeux de bonheur!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568692938229829632

Although not a surprise, it is a shame that the King has rolled back the progress made in the previous generation, when the spouse of the King's daughter was, from 1995, treated the same as the spouse of the King's son in regard to titles.

But Lorenz is a Royal, a Habsburg, whereas William is a commoner.