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  #241  
Old 02-05-2018, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
I agree, if this change was made in order to reduce the princes/princesses in the family, well this creates an even bigger mess.
If you think about it, it is similar to the old French tradition where the children and grandchildren of the King or the Dauphin (in certain cases) were enfants de France or petits-enfants de France, whereas other dynasts (male line descendants of Hugh Capet) were simply "princes of the blood" ( princes du sang).

So, now there are "princes/princesses of Belgium" , who are recognized as the official members of the royal family and as HRHs, and other princes or princesses of the blood, who are direct descendants of Léopold I (previously only in male line, but now also in maternal line),

A different question is whether an ordinary Mr Luc Vanderdorpe who nonetheless has "royal blood", will be registered in his birth certificate as "Prince Luc Vanderdorpe" or not, I guess we won't know that until the daughters of Princess Astrid or Princess Louise have children of their own.
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  #242  
Old 02-06-2018, 03:03 AM
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The most logic thing is that the children of Amedeo, Maria Laura, Joachim, Luisa Maria and Laetitia Maria follow the rules for the Belgian nobility.

That means that the children of Amedeo and Joachim are (will be) Archdukes and -duchesses of Austria-Este.

The children of Maria Laura, Luisa Maria and Laetitia Maria will have their father's eventual titles. Imagine that Maria Laura marries a graaf d'Udekem d'Acoz. They get a son, Albert. When they follow the assumed "prinses Anna-Astrid" example, is then his title prins Albert graaf d'Udekem d'Acoz? That is really a clash of titles and styles.
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  #243  
Old 02-06-2018, 03:33 AM
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Sure they are decreasing the number of Princes/Princesses of Belgium, but giving children from a collateral branch the same title as the main branch is rather messy, I think you all can agree on that. If it is true that the family has started using the German family name again (and therefore the titles as well), than the collateral branches should use lower titles (ducal ones for instance), the way they do in The Netherlands, for example, while still being part of the extended royal family.
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  #244  
Old 02-06-2018, 04:10 AM
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The most "logic" solution would be:

- the children of Princess Elisabeth: prins (prinses) van België and the eventual title and surname of their father *

- the children of Prince Gabriel: prins (prinses) van België, prins (prinses) van Saksen-Coburg en Gotha, hertog (hertogin) van Saksen

- the children of Prince Emmanuel: prins (prinses) van België, prins (prinses) van Saksen-Coburg en Gotha, hertog (hertogin) van Saksen

- the children of Princess Leonore: prins (prinses) van België and the eventual title and surname of their father *
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- the children of Prince Amedeo: aartshertog (aartshertogin) van Oostenrijk-Este

- the children of Princess Maria Laura: the eventual title and the surname of their father

- the children of Princess Luisa Maria: the eventual title and the surname of their father

- the children of Prince Joachim: aartshertog (aartshertogin) van Oostenrijk-Este

- the children of Princess Letitia Maria: the eventual title and the surname of their father

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- the children of Princess Louise: the eventual title and the surname of their father

- the children of Prince Nicolas: prins (prinses) van Saksen-Coburg en Gotha, hertog (hertogin) van Saksen

- the children of Prince Aymeric: prins (prinses) van Saksen-Coburg en Gotha, hertog (hertogin) van Saksen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* For an example: Princess Elizabeth or Princess Leonore marries a graaf de la Boëssière-Thiennes, their children can be prins (prinses) van België, graaf (gravin) de la Boëssière-Thiennes.
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  #245  
Old 02-06-2018, 05:20 AM
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I am not sure that logic and titles in the Benelux monarchies go well together. Thanks to those posters who share their knowledge of the matter in this thread.

The most logical thing would indeed be to create a secondary title for members that do not belong to the main line, princes of Coburg or even the entire Saxe-Coburg & Gotha. But the family started using the surname "de Belgique/van Belgie", so perhaps it is not likely they will return to their German origines at any point in the future.

The vagueness around the titles in Belgium perhaps means that no clear decision has been taken yet, other than that they will not be princes of Belgium. As we saw at Queen Paola's 80th birthday: the main line and the rest do not seem to be on speaking terms.

Are Amedeo's (future) child(ren) legally speaking even nobles? The Austria-Este title was not incorporated into the Belgian nobility AFAIK. This only happened for Archdukes Rudolf and Carl-Christian in 1978. Of course this may be a sensitive matter in the family.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair
I find this an utmost confusing way. When Laetitia Maria marries an untitled gentleman, Mr Van Aert and they get a son, Luc, is then his title "prins Luc Van Aert" analogue to his cousine "prinses Anna-Astrid"?
Sounds like a prince Carnaval. Surely this option can not be the intention of the RF.
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  #246  
Old 02-06-2018, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
Sure they are decreasing the number of Princes/Princesses of Belgium, but giving children from a collateral branch the same title as the main branch it is rather messy, I think you all can agree on that. If it is true that the family has started using the German family name again (and therefore the titles as well), than the collateral branches should use lower titles (ducal ones for instance), the way they do in The Netherlands, for example and while still being part of the extended royal family.
They are not being given the same titles. Only people born as children or grandchildren of the King or of the heir to the throne will be "princes/princesses of Belgium". The designation of other dynasts (previously descendants in male line of King Léopold I) as princes/princesses is not new. As I said, it was already implicit in the royal decrees of 1891 and 1991 where the word "prince" without territorial designation should be read, as I see it, not in the British sense of a member of the royal family, but rather as meaning anyone who is "of royal blood".

The novelty in the 2015 decree compared to the previous one from 1991 is that:
  1. The descendants of Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent beyond their children will no longer be "princes/princesses of Belgium" and, Anna Astrid's birth certificate notwithstanding, they should not be HRHs either. In that sense, they have been "demoted".
  2. However, the descendants in both paternal and maternal line of King Albert II who are not princes/princesses of Belgium are still implicitly princes/princesses in the French sense of a prince du sang, adjusted now for cognatic succession.
  3. The royal family, as I understand it, includes only the King and Queen, the princes and princesses of Belgium, and the former King and his wife upon abdication when applicable, but otherwise excludes other princes/princesses who are not "of Belgium".
As I said, it remains to be seen if "princes of the blood" who are not members of the royal family will use the title Prince/Princess as part of their legal name or not. I agree it will be weird if they call themselves Prince/Princess [Given Name] [Family Name].
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  #247  
Old 02-06-2018, 07:44 AM
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Exemple in Luxembourg, I saw on her Chair in a Church before She came.
SAR et I l' Archiduchesse Marie Christine de Habsbourg, Comtesse Rodolphe de Limbourg-Stirum. (Their Children are Limbourg Stirum)
This is the new way to avoid too much Princes of Belgium and Luxembourg who are not from the main Branch.
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  #248  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I am not sure that logic and titles in the Benelux monarchies go well together. Thanks to those posters who share their knowledge of the matter in this thread.

The most logical thing would indeed be to create a secondary title for members that do not belong to the main line, princes of Coburg or even the entire Saxe-Coburg & Gotha. But the family started using the surname "de Belgique/van Belgie", so perhaps it is not likely they will return to their German origines at any point in the future.

The vagueness around the titles in Belgium perhaps means that no clear decision has been taken yet, other than that they will not be princes of Belgium. As we saw at Queen Paola's 80th birthday: the main line and the rest do not seem to be on speaking terms.

Are Amedeo's (future) child(ren) legally speaking even nobles? The Austria-Este title was not incorporated into the Belgian nobility AFAIK. This only happened for Archdukes Rudolf and Carl-Christian in 1978. Of course this may be a sensitive matter in the family.



Sounds like a prince Carnaval. Surely this option can not be the intention of the RF.
I totally agree. I think this change has been done this way to distance the main line from the cadet lines but allowing them to retain a certain "aura" of royalty in the titles of their descendants (some people care about titles). Probably changes will be done in the future to clarify the situation, when both Astrid's and Laurent's offspring will be related distantly enough.
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  #249  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
They are not being given the same titles. Only people born as children or grandchildren of the King or of the heir to the throne will be "princes/princesses of Belgium". The designation of other dynasts (previously descendants in male line of King Léopold I) as princes/princesses is not new. As I said, it was already implicit in the royal decrees of 1891 and 1991 where the word "prince" without territorial designation should be read, as I see it, not in the British sense of a member of the royal family, but rather as meaning anyone who is "of royal blood".

The novelty in the 2015 decree compared to the previous one from 1991 is that:
  1. The descendants of Princess Astrid and Prince Laurent beyond their children will no longer be "princes/princesses of Belgium" and, Anna Astrid's birth certificate notwithstanding, they should not be HRHs either. In that sense, they have been "demoted".
  2. However, the descendants in both paternal and maternal line of King Albert II who are not princes/princesses of Belgium are still implicitly princes/princesses in the French sense of a prince du sang, adjusted now for cognatic succession.
  3. The royal family, as I understand it, includes only the King and Queen, the princes and princesses of Belgium, and the former King and his wife upon abdication when applicable, but otherwise excludes other princes/princesses who are not "of Belgium".
As I said, it remains to be seen if "princes of the blood" who are not members of the royal family will use the title Prince/Princess as part of their legal name or not. I agree it will be weird if they call themselves Prince/Princess [Given Name] [Family Name].

Ok, this way it is clearer to me, but when I said "same title" I was referring to the princely title. I am aware of the distinction between "royal princes" and "princes of the blood" but, this way things can be extremely confusing and dangerous...we all know how press and medias can use false and confused infos to send bad messages to their audience. Plus, when it comes to the children from a female line who, traditionally, should carry exclusively their father's titles (unless being directly involved with the succession to the throne), it is rather nonsense to carry on with princely titles, as if P. Maria Laura marries a Mr. Smith and their daughter is a Princess Jane Smith and so forth since she would be a descendant of King Leopold.
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  #250  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:29 AM
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They try to respect the standing situation, not to "rob" people from their titles but when they would limit the title prins (prinses) van België to children of a monarch and children of a heir, then the logic becomes visible:

The (grand)children of Léopold III
prinses Marie-Christine van België
prinses Marie-Esmeralda van België
Alexandra Moncada
Leopoldo Moncada

The children of Albert II

prins Philippe / Filip van België
prinses Astrid van België
prins Laurent van België

The children of Philippe / Filip
prinses Elisabeth van België
prins Gabriel van België
prins Emmanuel van België
prinses Leonore van België

The children of Astrid
Amedeo, aartshertog van Oostenrijk-Este
Anna-Astrid, aartshertogin van Oostenrijk-Este
Maria-Laura, aartshertogin van Oostenrijk-Este
Luisa-Maria, aartshertogin van Oostenrijk-Este
Joachim, aartshertog van Oostenrijk-Este
Laetitia-Maria, aartshertogin van Oostenrijk-Este

The children of Laurent
Louise, prinses van Saksen-Coburg en Gotha
Nicholas, prins van Saksen-Coburg en Gotha
Aymeric, prinses van Saksen-Coburg en Gotha
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  #251  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
When they follow the assumed "prinses Anna-Astrid" example, is then his title prins Albert graaf d'Udekem d'Acoz? That is really a clash of titles and styles.

Princess Anna Astrid's title of Princess is not merely "assumed" - it is a fact.


- Le Soir quoted the exact words of her birth certificate: She was registered in the civil registry as Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este.
"A la rubrique « nom et prénoms », son acte de naissance porte en effet, comme nous avons pu le voir : « Son Altesse Impériale et Royale la Princesse Anna Astrid Marie Archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine) »."

"In the column 'surname and given names', her birth certificate uses, as a matter of fact, as we were able to see it: 'Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)'."

http://plus.lesoir.be/53935/article/...us-de-belgique


- Letters from the household of Princess Astrid (one in English is pictured in the photograph here) styled her granddaughter as Princess Anna Astrid.
"Their Royal Highnesses Princess Astrid, Prince Lorenz, Prince Amedeo and Princess Elisabetta thank you for the kind wishes you have sent on the occasion of the first birthday of our little sunshine Princess Anna Astrid.

Jan Matthysen
Ambassador (ret.)
Advisor to Princess Astrid"

- A palace spokesman confirmed that she would enjoy the title of princess.
"The royal family’s newest member will enjoy the title of princess – but, for dynastic reasons, she will not be a Princess of Belgium, the palace spokesman confirms to PEOPLE.

“It’s entirely possible that she may assume other titles in due course,” according to the spokesman, who confirms that the young family will live in Brussels."

Princess Anna Astrid: Brussels Prince Amedeo and Elisabetta Welcome Baby | PEOPLE.com

- The Palace communicated that she was "Princess Anna Astrid" to Le Carnet Mondain, the yearbook of noble and distinguished Belgian families.
"Par contre, la petite Anna Astrid n'a ni titre ni nom dans « Le carnet mondain », étant simplement renseigné comme « la princesse Anna Astrid » . Preuve de l'existence d'un royal problème ? Sachant, comme le précise le volumineux ouvrage mondain, que « les informations concernant la famille royale de belgique sont reproduites tellse qu'elles nous sont communiquées par le Palais »."

"In contrast, the small Anna Astrid has neither title nor surname in "Le carnet mondain", being filled out as "the princess Anna Astrid". Proof of the existence of a royal problem? Knowing the bulky work specifies that "information concerning the royal family of Belgium is reproduced from that which was communicated to us by the Palace"."

http://plus.lesoir.be/92478/article/...e-saxe-cobourg

- The Palace communicated the same information to Place Royale. (Place Royale uses the term "Officiel" to describe information given from the Palace.)
"OFFICIEL Le bébé du Prince et de la Princesse Amedeo de Belgique est la Princesse Anna Astrid @MonarchieBe"

"OFFICIAL The baby of Prince and Princess Amedeo of Belgium is Princess Anna Astrid @MonarchieBe

http://twitter.com/RTLPlaceRoyale/st...64995834245120
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  #252  
Old 02-06-2018, 08:50 AM
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But it are all secondary sources. Even a municipal register can be wrongly filled (the average clerk will have no idea at all).

The primary source is a Royal Decree giving all descendants to Léopold I, even those not in direct lineage (like Anna-Astrid) the title of prins (prinses). Where is that Decree, signed by the King and contrasigned by the Government?

This because the (not foreseen?) consequence of all this is that the children of Maria-Laura, Luisa-Maria, Laetitia-Maria and Louise are all prins (prinses) as well, resulting in prins Marc Peeters, prinses Olivia Willems and prins Sem Goossens.
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  #253  
Old 02-06-2018, 09:27 AM
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But where is the primary source for your claim that the official birth certificate was filled out wrongly and not corrected already by three months (!) after, when it was published?

According to which sources are the birth certificate, the letters from Princess Astrid's household, and the plentiful statements from the Palace constantly wrong, allegedly?

The decree of November 12, 2015, which was indeed signed by the King and contrasigned by the Government, is here.
Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
It does not say that all descendants of King Leopold I are princes and princesses, but it indeed means that at least a portion of them will be.

Moreover, I would not consider the birth certificate, the spokesmen for the Palace, or Princess Astrid's advisor to be secondary sources.
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  #254  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:02 AM
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How difficult when all is easy for us Belgians to understand !
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  #255  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
How difficult when all is easy for us Belgians to understand !
It is actually very confusing and difficult to understand, but maybe the Belgians have a superior intellect in this aspect.

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  #256  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


But where is the primary source for your claim that the official birth certificate was filled out wrongly and not corrected already by three months (!) after, when it was published?

According to which sources are the birth certificate, the letters from Princess Astrid's household, and the plentiful statements from the Palace constantly wrong, allegedly?

The decree of November 12, 2015, which was indeed signed by the King and contrasigned by the Government, is here.
Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
It does not say that all descendants of King Leopold I are princes and princesses, but it indeed means that at least a portion of them will be.

Moreover, I would not consider the birth certificate, the spokesmen for the Palace, or Princess Astrid's advisor to be secondary sources.
The link you provided to the State Gazette speaks about Princes (Princesses) of Belgium.

Article 1
The Princes and the Princesses, children and grandchildren, born in a direct descendance to the King,
as well as the Princes and the Princesses, children and grandchildren, born in a direct descendance to the Crown Prince or Crown Princess, bear the title of Prince or Princess of Belgium

-> This does not apply to Anna-Astrid: she is no child or grandchild of the King or the Crown Princess


Article 2
The Princes and the Princesses, children and grandchildren, born in a direct descendance to His Majesty King Albert II, bear the title of Prince or Princess of Belgium

-> This does not apply on Anna-Astrid: she is no child or grandchild to King Albert II

Article 3
The Princes and Princesses, who already hold the title Prince or Princess of Belgium, keep this title.

-> This does not apply on Anna-Astrid: she was born after this Decree

Article 4
The Princes and Princesses, born in a direct descendance to Leopold I von Sachsen-Coburg, and who are not covered by Articles 1 to 3, carry after their first name and their family name, as far as they conduct these, the titles that belong to them according to their ascendance.

-> This does not apply on Anna-Astrid: she is no direct descendant to King Leopold I, she is the granddaughter of a Belgian Princess (one can argue that Amedeo is a "direct descendant" via his mother, but Anna-Astrid is a descendant of a Von Habsburg father and a Rosboch von Wolkenstein mother). She is an indirect descendant to Leopold I.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So. Where does the title "prinses Anna-Astrid" come from? Article 4? Is she regarded as "geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van / issus de la descendance directe" to Leopold I von Sachsen-Coburg?

She is not. She is no Sachsen-Coburg. She is a Habsburg. But let us assume she is regarded as a "direct descendant" then also Alexandra and Leopoldo Moncada are "direct descendants'. And when Maria-Laura von Habsburg marries a British gentleman, Mr Harry Smith, then their daughter is a "direct descendant" too? Prinses Laura Smith?

But let us assume that indeed Article 4 is applicable indeed. Then one can not say that it applies on individual A but not on individual B: the daughter of Amedeo von Habsburg is "prinses" and the daughter of Maria Laura Smith née Von Habsburg is no "prinses". Then one is discriminating within the same Article 4.

For so far the "logic" and "easy to understand" Belgian arrangement for the titulature.


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  #257  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post




The decree of November 12, 2015, which was indeed signed by the King and contrasigned by the Government, is here.
Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad
It does not say that all descendants of King Leopold I are princes and princesses, but it indeed means that at least a portion of them will be.
.
I guess that depends on how you interpret Art. 4 of the 2015 royal decree. Just to provide some context, let us examine first what the previous royal decrees said.

1) Royal Decree of 18/3/1891

"Art. 1er. Dans les actes publics et privés qui les concernent, les princes et les princesses issus de la descendance masculine et directe de feu Sa Majesté Léopold Ier, seront qualifiés de princes et princesses de Belgique, à la suite de leurs prénoms et avant la mention de leur titre originaire de duc ou duchesse de Saxe.
Les princesses unies par mariage aux princes de notre maison royale seront qualifiées de la même manière à la suite des noms et titres qui leur sont propres
"

2) Royal Decree of 2/12/1991

"Art. 1er. Dans les actes publics et privés qui les concernent, les Princes et les Princesses issus de la descendance, en ligne directe de S.A.R. le Prince Albert,(...), Prince de Liège (sic), Prince de Belgique, seront qualifiés Princes et Princesses de Belgique, à la suite de leurs prénoms.
Art. 2. L'arrêté Royal du 18/3/1891, qualifiant Princes et Princesses de Belgique les Princes et Princesses issus de la descendance de feu Sa Majesté Léopold Ier, est abrogé."


3) Royal Decree of 12/11/2015

"Article 1er. Dans les actes publics et privés qui les concernent, les Princes et les Princesses, enfants et petits-enfants, issus de la descendance directe du Roi ainsi que les Princes et les Princesses, enfants et petits-enfants, issus de la descendance directe du Prince héritier ou de la Princesse héritière portent le titre de Prince ou de Princesse de Belgique à la suite de leur prénom et, pour autant qu'ils les portent, de leur nom de famille et de leur titre dynastique et avant les autres titres qui leur reviennent de droit par leur ascendance. Leur prénom est précédé par le prédicat Son Altesse Royale.

Art. 2. Dans les actes publics et privés qui les concernent, les Princes et les Princesses, enfants et petits-enfants, issus de la descendance directe de Sa Majesté le Roi Albert II portent le titre de Prince ou de Princesse de Belgique à la suite de leur prénom et, pour autant qu'ils les portent, de leur nom de famille et de leur titre dynastique et avant les autres titres qui leur reviennent de droit par leur ascendance. Leur prénom est précédé par le prédicat Son Altesse Royale.

Art. 3. Les Princes et les Princesses qui portent le titre de Prince ou de Princesse de Belgique en vertu de l'arrêté royal du 14 mars 1891 qualifiant Princes et Princesses de Belgique les Princes et Princesses issus de la descendance masculine et directe de feu Sa Majesté Léopold Ier gardent ce titre à la suite de leur prénom et, pour autant qu'ils le portent, de leur nom de famille et avant les autres titres qui leur reviennent de droit par leur ascendance. Leur prénom est précédé par le prédicat Son Altesse Royale.

Art. 4. Les Princes et Princesses, issus de la descendance directe de Sa Majesté Léopold, Georges, Chrétien, Frédéric de Saxe-Cobourg qui ne sont pas visés par les articles 1er à 3, portent à la suite de leur prénom et, pour autant qu'ils le portent, de leur nom de famille, les titres qui leur reviennent de droit par leur ascendance."



It appears to me that the only reasonable interpretation for the the words "les princes et princesses, issus de la descendance [...]" in all those documents is to take "prince" and "princess" as synonyms of "dynasts", which would be consistent with both French and Germanic tradition. The separate title of "Prince/Princess of Belgium", which implies membership of the royal family and the style of HRH (cf. Arts 1-3 of the 2015 royal decree) applies, on the other hand, only to a more restricted class of persons.

It is also clear to me that "descendance en ligne directe" in those decrees is meant to be descendance both in paternal and maternal line. Otherwise, Art.1 of the 1991 royal decree would not apply to Princess Astrid's children and they would not be Princes/Princesses of Belgium. If the legislator had the intention to constrain the meaning of "descendance directe" to paternal line, then he would have written instead "descendance masculine et directe" as was done explicitly in the royal decree of 1891. The fact that "masculine" was explicitly dropped in the royal decrees of 1991 and 2015 seems intentional to me.
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  #258  
Old 02-06-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post

So. Where does the title "prinses Anna-Astrid" come from? Article 4? Is she regarded as "geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van / issus de la descendance directe" to Leopold I von Sachsen-Coburg?

She is not. She is no Sachsen-Coburg. She is a Habsburg. But let us assume she is regarded as a "direct descendant" then also Alexandra and Leopoldo Moncada are "direct descendants'. And when Maria-Laura von Habsburg marries a British gentleman, Mr Harry Smith, then their daughter is a "direct descendant" too? Prinses Laura Smith?

But let us assume that indeed Article 4 is applicable indeed. Then one can not say that it applies on individual A but not on individual B: the daughter of Amedeo von Habsburg is "prinses" and the daughter of Maria Laura Smith née Von Habsburg is no "prinses". Then one is discriminating within the same Article 4.

For so far the "logic" and "easy to understand" Belgian arrangement for the titulature.


You have expressed my doubts better than I could. That is exactly my point. I am afraid though that the entire concept of "direct descendant" can be twisted by the fact that they all are in the line of succession and this way anyone can claim to be a direct descendant of Leopold I.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
You have expressed my doubts better than I could. That is exactly my point. I am afraid though that the entire concept of "direct descendant" can be twisted by the fact that they all are in the line of succession and this way anyone can claim to be a direct descendant of Leopold I.
The concept of "direct descendant" is not so hard to grasp. It means simply that someone is a child, grandchild, great-grandchild , great-great-grandchild, etc. of someone else, as opposed to a nephew/niece, or grandnephew/grandniece for example. The only lingering doubt is if "direct descendance" can also be claimed in maternal line, or if it applies in paternal line only. As I wrote before, I understand the wording in the royal decrees of 1991 and 2015 is meant to signify cognatic direct descendance, as opposed to male-line direct descendance.
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:32 PM
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Would it be an option for the King to reinstate abolished titles like Comte de Flandres in the future?
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