The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1  
Old 10-01-2020, 02:42 PM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 22,056
The Princess Delphine & Family, General News & Events Thread; 2020 -

The Princess Delphine & Family General News Thread


According to the RTBF (Walloon public television channel), Delphine Boël is now officially princess of Belgium.

The court in Brussels has decided that she will be princess of Belgium. The same goes for her children Josephine and Oscar, all with the prefix of Royal Highness. The judgement took place earlier than expected.

According to Het Gazet van Antwerpen her lawyer confirmed to them that she 'will receive a recognition of paternity, the last name of van Saksen-Coburg and the title of Princess of Belgium'. I have not seen the last name being confirmed by either the RTBF or the VRT but updates will surely follow soon.

According to newspaper 'De Standaard' it is still possible that King Albert will appeal against the judgement.

https://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/de...ue?id=10598252

https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20201001_9...gie-meldt-rtbf

https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/delph...nses~bacbbc01/

Edit I: the VRT now also claims that she can will get the last name of 'van Saxe-Coburg'.
Edit II: according to Wim Dehandschutter (Flemish royalty reporter) the children will continue to use the last name of their father, O'Hare.
Edit III: article in English can be found here: https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/b...gian-princess/


---
The old thread about Delphine Boël can be found here.
__________________

__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-01-2020, 02:45 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 801
Wow. I suppose not unexpected after all the recent kerfuffle but still, wow.

S-C-G wouldn't have been a surprise at all.

Does it say anything about the supposed public life and privileges her lawyers were talking about before?
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-01-2020, 02:49 PM
Fürstin Taxis's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Neuschwanstein, Germany
Posts: 1,292
Wheezing, so much for 'I only want him to recognize me :'( '
Welcome to the world, Princess Delphine, Princess Josephine and Prince Oscar
__________________

To be a legend, you've either got to be dead or excessively old!
Christopher Lee
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:10 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Wow. I suppose not unexpected after all the recent kerfuffle but still, wow.

S-C-G wouldn't have been a surprise at all.
Yes. While it may seem unsurprising to readers not familiar with Belgian law, it must be underscored that this decision is a major break with the present laws of Belgium. Until now, titles of nobility (1) have been the prerogative of the King and Government, not the courts, and (2) have been transmissible only in legitimate male line, except when a special remainder is stipulated in the patent of creation.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/ser...s/nobility/faq


Quote:
Does it say anything about the supposed public life and privileges her lawyers were talking about before?
My question as well. To be consistent with the arguments of Delphine's lawyers, will the court also order a dotation, a palace, and a formal role?

Is this decision open to be appealed by King Philippe and the Government (given that titles have, until now, been under their authority) or by King Albert?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:22 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
However, it is extremely ironic that many of the very same royal experts who most severely attack inheritance of royal and noble titles through female lines because it is "a breach with tradition" and "laws cannot change the fact that dynasties are determined by the father" are adamantly declaring that Delphine Boël deserves to be an HRH Princess of Belgium because "the times have changed" and "there is no law that explicitly forbids her from becoming one".
I am glad that, at least, the court has been more consistent than these "experts" by extending the titles through the female line to Delphine's children as well.

There are more questions I would appreciate the answers to, as I have not read all of the coverage of this decision:

1. What were the legal arguments applied by the court to reach its decision?

2. Why shouldn't the ruling apply to Delphine's husband as well, given that the spouses of Lorenz and Claire are HRH and Prince/ss of Belgium?

3. Why shouldn't the ruling also apply to Princess Astrid's grandchildren, Princess Anna Astrid and Prince Maximilian? (Anna Astrid was registered in her birth certificate as "Princess" but not "Princess of Belgium" or HRH, in accordance with King Philippe's interpretation of his own Royal Decree.)

Now that the court has apparently ruled that HRH and Prince/ss of Belgium are hereditary entitlements, rather than privileges granted or denied by the King's will, then I do not see any reason why Amedeo's children (and the future children of Maria Laura, Joachim, etc.) are not entitled to it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:28 PM
leidi's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: ...., United Arab Emirates
Posts: 928
My lord what a mess, thank you Albert for not acknowledging your daughter and now leaving this whole issue in the hands of your eldest son.
UGH.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:45 PM
acdc1's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: somewhere in, United States
Posts: 2,156
As someone who doesn't closely follow this family, was this the expected outcome of the announcement? Has there been previous cases where an illegitimate child is given HRH Prince/Princess titles that are hereditary? Are she and her children now in the line of succession?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:47 PM
Blog Real's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 4,795
And Delphine is now Princess of Belgium!
She just wanted to be recognized by her father, but after all she wanted more...
__________________
My blogs about monarchies
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:50 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
As someone who doesn't closely this family, was this the expected outcome of the announcement? Has there been previous cases where an illegitimate child is given HRH Prince/Princess titles that are hereditary?
See the answer in post #4 above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
Are she and her children now in the line of succession?
If the court accepted the arguments of Delphine's lawyers that she is entitled to the same privileges as her siblings, they should be in the line of succession, and Delphine should be entitled to a taxpayer-funded allowance, a taxpayer-funded residence, and an official public role representing the country.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:50 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 28,420
Perhaps the king wants closure this has been going on for far too long but I did not expect to see a Princess Delphine of Belgium.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:54 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: tacoma, United States
Posts: 346
Well wonder if K Albert would do it again if he would sit on the Throne . How could he do this to his family. Sadly just because he was CP at the time? he sure did not think with his head between his shoulders. What a mess. So the Kings new/old sister will be at every function, Daddy Dearest at her side? Maybe the Judge wanted to teach him Albert a lesson. But I don't see how her children will be HRH as well. Now we have to see and wait. God help them all.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:56 PM
Marchesina's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pescara, Italy
Posts: 862
I did not expect this. At all. I had always thought that dynastic laws were above any national law.
Does HRH expects to have a dotation, a house (in Laken maybe) and official engagements too?
One may be born from a king but a royal is another thing and it is more and more rare to find these days...
I pity Philippe who has to deal with all that now when his father has most of his life to do it but never wanted to.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-01-2020, 03:58 PM
acdc1's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: somewhere in, United States
Posts: 2,156
So this means she’s going to join the family at every official function, have public/royal duties, and be a full-fledged member of the family? Did she have a relationship with her half-siblings and father at all? That will be so incredibly awkward, I’m rather shocked by this ruling.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-01-2020, 04:00 PM
Marengo's Avatar
Administrator
Royal Blogger, TRF Author
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 22,056
I am not sure if a dotation is likely. The 2014 law states that only the king and the heir will receive a dotation, with a temporary transition arrangement for Astrid and Laurent. As Delphine has nothing to transition from I am not sure how a dotation can be justified.
__________________
TRF Rules and FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-01-2020, 04:07 PM
Commoner
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germany, Germany
Posts: 46
I have to say, I am quite happy with this. I always thought this legitimacy thing is incredibly unfair and discriminatory, treating children born out of wedlock like dirt, like some shame that has to be hushed and covered up. Something unworthy of the 21st century. And I really hope this also means Belgium has a new 17th, 18th and 19th in line-of-succession.

Anyway, congratulations for this victory, Your Royal Highness!

best wishes Michiru
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-01-2020, 04:08 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,924
The ruling of the court could have been a landmark decision in protection against discrimination, had it simply struck down the laws restricting the inheritance of titles of nobility to legitimate male lines.

Instead, by maintaining these laws (I assume) but making an exception for Delphine, it is simply a case of special treatment being granted to one person because of their royal blood, which can hardly be said to be modern.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The good thing about this case is that it will force the Belgian courts to settle once and for all what "Princes and princesses" mean in the context of the royal decrees of 1891, 1991 and 2015.
From what I gathered from press reports, Delphine's attorneys simply ignored those three words, even omitting them when they quoted from the decree. The court may have done the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leidi View Post
My lord what a mess, thank you Albert for not acknowledging your daughter and now leaving this whole issue in the hands of your eldest son.
UGH.
Given King Philippe's years of moves to restrict titles, taxpayer funding, state housing, and public engagements, even for his own close family members with whom he has a personal relationship (and to the point where it reportedly sparked arguments between him and his sister and brother), I cannot imagine that he is pleased with this ruling.


Quote:
Originally Posted by REAL COUNTESS View Post
But I don't see how her children will be HRH as well.
In the same way that she will be HRH: By the decision of the court.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-01-2020, 04:08 PM
crm2317's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Belfast, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,541
I’m not surprised she got the surname Saxe Coburg but I am totally shocked that she has been given titles! She is illegitimate and this doesn’t change that!
__________________
God Save the House of Windsor
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-01-2020, 04:09 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 28,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post



If the court accepted the arguments of Delphine's lawyers that she is entitled to the same privileges as her siblings, they should be in the line of succession, and Delphine should be entitled to a taxpayer-funded allowance, a taxpayer-funded residence, and an official public role representing the country.
If accepted then Princess Delphine and her children would come after HRH Prince Aymeric in the line of succession.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-01-2020, 04:10 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,290
Wow. This has the potential to change a lot of things for some other illegitimate people of royal families. This is definitely fascinating.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-01-2020, 04:15 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 2,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiru-Kaiou View Post
I have to say, I am quite happy with this. I always thought this legitimacy thing is incredible unfair and discriminatory, treating children born out of wedlock like dirt, like some shame that has to be hushed and covered up. Something unworthy of the 21st century. And I really hope this also means Belgium has a new 17th, 18th and 19th in line-of-succession.

Anyway, congratulations for this victory, Your Royal Highness!

best wishes Michiru
I'm not sure how this is a victory for illegitimate children, given that (unless the early reports are incomplete) they continue to be barred by law from inheriting titles.

And given that all women are barred by law from transmitting their titles to their children (whether legitimate or illegitimate), why would your description of "treated like dirt" not apply to the children of noble women?
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
#royalrelatives #royalgenes abu dhabi american history anastasia 2020 armstrong-jones baptism british royal family british royals cht commonwealth countries countess of snowdon cover-up customs daisy doge of venice dutch royal family emperor family tree games gustaf vi adolf haakon vii history house of windsor interesting introduction israel jack brooksbank jewelry jumma kent kids movie king willem-alexander książ castle line of succession list of rulers luxembourg maxima nepal nepalese royal family popularity prince charles prince constantijn princess catharina-amalia princess chulabhorn princess dita princess elizabeth queen consort queen maud queen maxima royal balls royal events royal family royal jewels royal spouse royalty royal wedding russian court dress settings spain speech startling new evidence stuart swedish queen taiwan thailand tradition united kingdom videos von hofmannsthal wedding gown


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:54 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020
Jelsoft Enterprises
×