Queen Fabiola's Family (Mora)

[Marengo]

I just read in the Dutch free daily newspaper 'DAG' that Queen Fabiola had a difficult relationship with her mother too, and did not see her for some years? Is this true? I never heard the story before and considering it is a free newspaper the quality isn' t too reliable.

The article also mentions Fabiola's brother Don Jaime de Mora y Aragon, who apparently acted naked in movies.

Picture of Don Jaime and another one here.

[Paty]

Jaime de Mora y Aragón, was very popular in Spain as an actor. He acted in a lot of movies, comedy movies the mojority of them. He loved harleis!

He was a very charmig man. In Spain, was popular for what he was, not for been the Queen Fabiola brother.

[magnik]

Her family:
GeneAll.net - Fabiola de Mora y Aragon

http://www.monarchie.be/en/family/fabiola/cv.html


The Fragebogen: Fabiolo and Fabiolo ( Jaime de Mora y Aragon, A Noble Spanish Bon Vivant)

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Marengo

I just read in the Dutch free daily newspaper 'DAG' that Queen Fabiola had a difficult relationship with her mother too, and did not see her for some years? Is this true? I never heard the story before and considering it is a free newspaper the quality isn' t too reliable.

The article also mentions Fabiola's brother Don Jaime de Mora y Aragon, who apparently acted naked in movies.

Picture of Don Jaime and another one here.

In the biography "La Reine Blanche" Phillipe Seguy asserts that she and her mother were estranged for many years before the Countess's death in 1981. I am not sure why...except Fabiola's mother had become very eccentric and opened the vast Mora Palace to a host of stray dogs and cats. I do believe that they had sort of reconciled by the time of Dona Blanca's death, she left her Paris apartment to Fabiola in her will.

Her funeral was kept very quiet and low key. The only non-family members who were there were King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Paty

Jaime de Mora y Aragón, was very popular in Spain as an actor. He acted in a lot of movies, comedy movies the mojority of them. He loved harleis!

He was a very charmig man. In Spain, was popular for what he was, not for been the Queen Fabiola brother.

He sounded like he was great fun, a sort of free spirit. But I can understand why he might have driven his sister Fabiola up the wall!

[Helena]

Did he call himself Don Fabiolo or did the press invent that for him?

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Helena

Did he call himself Don Fabiolo or did the press invent that for him?

The press made that up in the days following the announcement of the Royal engagement.

[Marengo]

As posted by Manuel on the Franco Iberian MB:

A nephew and a niece of Queen Fabiola "fighting" for a title. Finally, the eldest child has become "marquesa de Casa Riera". Two years is a long period of time between the application and the letter of succession, but I guess the administration was waiting for the publication of the new law.

http://www.boe.es/g/es/bases_datos/doc.php?coleccion=anboe&id=2006/290112

http://www.boe.es/g/es/bases_datos/doc.php?coleccion=indilex&id=2008/13383&txtlen=589

[Rayarena]

I found some interesting documentation which I include herein [PDF format] that looks at the former Queen of Belgium, Fabiola's ancestry and Maria Teresa of Luxembourg's ancestry, and they are---fascinately enough--- related. And this is not one of those silly genealogical studies that claim that this American president or that American president is related to the Queen of England through 1000 degrees of separation [sic].

Unfortunately, the document is in Spanish, but it seems that Maria Teresa who is a descendant of Creole aristocracy from Cuba's colonial past has ancestors in common with Fabiola who surprisingly enough has Cuban creole ancestors even though her family moved back to Spain where she was born.

Here is the link: http://www.genealogia.or.cr/flash/bo...boletin076.swf

Once you get to the link, go to page 11: Parte B, Herrera y Tapia, Marqueses de Villalta.

[koolx]

Originally Posted by Rayarena

I found some interesting documentation which I include herein [PDF format] that looks at the former Queen of Belgium, Fabiola's ancestry and Maria Teresa of Luxembourg's ancestry, and they are---fascinately enough--- related. And this is not one of those silly genealogical studies that claim that this American president or that American president is related to the Queen of England through 1000 degrees of separation [sic].

Unfortunately, the document is in Spanish, but it seems that Maria Teresa who is a descendant of Creole aristocracy from Cuba's colonial past has ancestors in common with Fabiola who surprisingly enough has Cuban creole ancestors even though her family moved back to Spain where she was born.
.

Rayarena, youre wrong when you stated that Queen Teresa descended from creole stock.

Go to wiki.. as stated:

Maria Teresa, Grand Duchess of Luxembourg was born in Marianao, Havana, Cuba, to José Antonio Mestre y Alvarez (Vedado, Havana, 1926 -) and wife (m. Vedado, Havana, 1951) María Teresa Batista y Falla de Mestre (Vedado, Havana, 1928 - 1988), both from families of the Bourgeoisie and Spanish Nobility (including some Conquistadors).[1]

[amedea]

Isn't 'creole' used for people born in Latin America by european-spanish ancestors? Isn't this exactly the case of the Grand Duchess' family? And, if not, why?
However geneall.net reports different ancestors for queen Fabiola from the ones the above links reports, so I doubt of its credibility.

[Katrianna]

Creole is French. French settlers were in Eastern Canada and were called Acadians they settled in the US especially Louisiana, creole comes from them. Haitians speak creole as they were under French influence until the 1800's. So Grand Duchess Maria Teresa is not creole nor Queen Fabiola.

[Marengo]

From wikipedia:

In regions that were formerly colonies of Spain, the Spanish word criollo historically referred to class of the colonial caste system, comprising people born in the colonies with unmixed Spanish descent.

Read more here.

----

Queen Fabiola most definately had anscestors who lived in Cuba. For example, Juan José Núñez del Castillo, 2nd marquess of San Felipe and Santiago, Viscount of Valle de San Jeronimo, who was born in La Habana, as was his father, the 1st marquess of San Felipe & Santiago. But you can find many more in the genealogical database provided by magnik in post 3.

Anastasio Carrillo de Albornoz y Cardenas, 5th marquess of Casa Torres (1834-1871) moved from La Habana to Madrid. His daughter Blanca, 6th marchioness of Casa Torres married Don Cesareo de Aragón y Barroeta Aldamar. This couple's daughter Blanca is the mother of Queen Fabiola.

- So in short, Queen Fabiola descents from the criollos/ creole's.

Note that the most famous 'creole' is probably a certain Rose Tascher de la Pagerie, later known as Empress Josephine of the French.

[amedea]

Thanks Marengo! And have you also found out if the queen's ancestors are related to the Grand Duchess' ancestors as the link provided by Rayarena pretend?

[Marengo]

geneall.net 'stops' only goes back into that line to Don Agustin de Cardenas y Chacón Castillón y Herrera (b. 1777).

GeneAll.net - Agustin de Cardenas y Chacón Castillón y Herrera

If you compare geneall.net to the article they have been identical up to here, so there is no reason to assume that the article is incorrect.

Thank you for the link Rayarena, it is most interesting!

[koolx]

Originally Posted by Marengo

From wikipedia:



Read more here.

----

From dictionary.com:

Creole - a person of mixed black and European, esp. French or Spanish, ancestry who speaks a creolized form of French or Spanish.

[SLV]

There has been an evolution in the meaning of the word creole throughout time. Both definitions actually are correct.

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by koolx

From dictionary.com:

Creole - a person of mixed black and European, esp. French or Spanish, ancestry who speaks a creolized form of French or Spanish.

From the free dictionairy.com:

1.A person of European descent born in the West Indies or Spanish America.
2. a. A person descended from or culturally related to the original French settlers of the southern United States, especially Louisiana.
b. The French dialect spoken by these people.

3. A person descended from or culturally related to the Spanish and Portuguese settlers of the Gulf States.
4. often creole A person of mixed Black and European ancestry who speaks a creolized language, especially one based on French or Spanish.
5. A Black slave born in the Americas as opposed to one brought from Africa.
6. creole A creolized language.
7. Haitian Creole.

Creole - definition of Creole by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

[Katrianna]

Thanks Marengo.

[Rayarena]

Originally Posted by Marengo

geneall.net 'stops' only goes back into that line to Don Agustin de Cardenas y Chacón Castillón y Herrera (b. 1777).

GeneAll.net - Agustin de Cardenas y Chacón Castillón y Herrera

If you compare geneall.net to the article they have been identical up to here, so there is no reason to assume that the article is incorrect.

Thank you for the link Rayarena, it is most interesting!

You are very welcomed Morengo. The most interesting aspect to me of all of this is that Queen Fabiola and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa who are related to each other marry into ruling families that are closely related to each other! The late King Baudouin is after all Grand Duke Henri's uncle!