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  #561  
Old 10-22-2020, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If Albert had divorced and been required to renounce his succession rights, I suspect Philippe would have been forced to marry much earlier, even if it were only an arranged marriage (which BTW most people at the time also thought his marriage to Mathilde was).
But the monarchy had already been left to even younger and equally (if not more) struggling Baudouin. Whose marriage to Fabiola was likely not forced (probably the opposite). I think a younger unmarried Philippe would have managed, but Albert was a ready alternative — his uncle had had no choice.

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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
During his visit to the Belgian center for guide dogs, Prince Laurent was aksed by the press if he would see Delphine. The prince responded: 'My door is always open to her. If that is what she needs, she will come. If that isn't what she needs, she will not." He added: "For you that is a novelty but for me it is not a novelty". He claimed that he has seen her for 20 years: "she knows that our door -of my wife and I- is always open to her. She knows that so I do not need to say this in public."

When asked if Delphine would be part of the family, he responded: "what is part of a family? I can only speak for myself and my door and home are open to her."

https://www.msn.com/nl-be/nieuws/nat...?ocid=msedgdhp
That's nice of Laurent. His words are likely not evasiveness about Delphine but ambivalence about his own past and place in things. "What is part of a family?" indeed.
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  #562  
Old 10-22-2020, 12:34 PM
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I take Laurent's words to mean that he has already been in at least sporadic contact with his half- sister for years. There are no problems between them. He cannot speak for the wider family, but nothing has changed. He will always be there for her.

The big question for me is how Princess Astrid feels about all of this.....
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  #563  
Old 10-22-2020, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
But the monarchy had already been left to even younger and equally (if not more) struggling Baudouin. Whose marriage to Fabiola was likely not forced (probably the opposite). I think a younger unmarried Philippe would have managed, but Albert was a ready alternative — his uncle had had no choice.



That's nice of Laurent. His words are likely not evasiveness about Delphine but ambivalence about his own past and place in things. "What is part of a family?" indeed.
I don't think he has ever felt part of a family, or of anything. Except with animals and now that he has his own family.

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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I take Laurent's words to mean that he has already been in at least sporadic contact with his half- sister for years. There are no problems between them. He cannot speak for the wider family, but nothing has changed. He will always be there for her.

The big question for me is how Princess Astrid feels about all of this.....
Frankly I don't expect much of Princess Astrid, she is rumoured to truly be her father's daughter and was instrumental in reconciling her parents. She is the only one of the three who has forgiven Albert and Paola their mistakes (according to an article in Het Nieuwsblad).
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  #564  
Old 10-22-2020, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Prior to her legal recognition as Albert's daughter, her lawyer stated that she wanted and deserved "the same privileges, titles and capacities as her brothers and her sister". However, the court of appeals appears to have granted her only the same titles, and not the same privileges and capacities, since after the judgment her lawyer stated that she would not receive an allowance or represent the country.

Tangentially, I wonder whether her lawyers would still have advanced that argument in court if Baroness Sybille had other children. In that scenario, King Albert's lawyers would have been able to point out that she already had exactly the same privileges, titles and capacities as the brother(s) or sister(s) on her maternal side, who would have been as much her siblings as Albert's children.
Couldn't it be argued that royal status is in itself "a privilege and a capacity"?

I think if Sybille and Albert had had more children, this whole thing would have been far harder for Albert to sweep under the rug and resolved much sooner. Strength in numbers and all that. Lawyer would also have argued that none of Albert's children with Sybille had the privileges of his ones with Paola.

Quote:
Interesting, could you link to her interviews about the religiosity of the family?
The 60 Minutes interview above has her mentioning "They're soooo Catholic" (approx.) in a "they're very openly devout" kind of sense. To which the interviewer responds "how Catholic could he be? He had a 18-year affair with your mother!" and she laughs.
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  #565  
Old 10-22-2020, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Couldn't it be argued that royal status is in itself "a privilege and a capacity"?
Yes. But the statement of her lawyer that she wanted "the same privileges, titles, and capacities as her brother and her sister" indicates that she wanted other privileges and capacities beyond a royal title.

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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I think if Sybille and Albert had had more children, this whole thing would have been far harder for Albert to sweep under the rug and resolved much sooner. Strength in numbers and all that. Lawyer would also have argued that none of Albert's children with Sybille had the privileges of his ones with Paola.
I meant children of Sybille who were not the biological or legal children of Albert.


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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
When I mentioned Charlotte of Monaco before and said "like this" I meant: "child born out of wedlock gains royal rank and title in reigning house". If you consider the Duchess of Valentinois was installed in the succession of her country, I think Delphine is still pretty unique over the last few centuries of European history.
King Louis XIV of France decreed that his illegitimate children would enjoy the same royal rank as their legitimate siblings, and even the right to the throne.

If "child born out of wedlock" includes children who were subsequently made legitimate by the marriage of their parents, the examples probably increase substantially, including at the moment the children of Princes Jean and Louis of Luxembourg.
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  #566  
Old 10-23-2020, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Frankly I don't expect much of Princess Astrid, she is rumoured to truly be her father's daughter and was instrumental in reconciling her parents. She is the only one of the three who has forgiven Albert and Paola their mistakes (according to an article in Het Nieuwsblad).
Then shouldn't she theoretically not have a problem with Delphine? "Forgiveness of mistakes" doesn't mean "ignoring them" or "pretending they never happened". I do suspect that it's probably (very) awkward for her and that's understandable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Yes. But the statement of her lawyer that she wanted "the same privileges, titles, and capacities as her brother and her sister" indicates that she wanted other privileges and capacities beyond a royal title.
How was that meant to be squared, though, since her sister and brothers all have very different privileges? Maybe HRH is what you bargain down to, not up from.

Quote:
King Louis XIV of France decreed that his illegitimate children would enjoy the same royal rank as their legitimate siblings, and even the right to the throne.

If "child born out of wedlock" includes children who were subsequently made legitimate by the marriage of their parents, the examples probably increase substantially, including at the moment the children of Princes Jean and Louis of Luxembourg.
Louis XIV is a bit beyond "the last few centuries". And no, I don't mean kids whose parents subsequently married, which probably limits us back to Charlotte and Delphine.
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  #567  
Old 10-25-2020, 02:10 AM
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This is the first time I've seen any of King Philippe's paintings. Who knew? He is really quite talented! I suspect he could make a decent living at it if for some reason his current royal gig ends sometime down the road.
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  #568  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

King Louis XIV of France decreed that his illegitimate children would enjoy the same royal rank as their legitimate siblings, and even the right to the throne.

I don't think "the same royal rank" is an accurate description. As far as I understand, Louis XIV elevated his legitimized sons to the rank of princes du sang , i.e. members of the Capetian dynasty, but they did not become fils de France, i.e. members of the Royal House, as their legitimate siblings.

If I am not mistaken, they were included in the line of succession to the French throne, but only after all other legitimate branches of the dynasty, meaning that they ranked lower than not only the fils and petits-fils de France (i.e., the princes of the Royal House), but also than all other legitimate princes du sang (including the Orléans for example).

I would appreciate if other posters could verify if that is indeed accurate.
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  #569  
Old 10-25-2020, 09:48 AM
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No, I can't confrim absolutely but my recollection is that they werne't equal to their royal half siblings.. and not everyone approved of giving them as much privilege as they did recieve....
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  #570  
Old 10-27-2020, 07:05 AM
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King Albert and Queen Paola have met with Princess Delphine on Sunday afternoon at their Belvédère residence:


Quote:
This Sunday, October 25, a new chapter opened, filled with emotion, appeasement, understanding and, also, hope.

Our meeting took place at the Château du Belvédère, a meeting during which each of us was able to express, calmly and with empathy, our feelings and our experiences.

After the turmoil, the wounds and the suffering, comes the time for forgiveness, healing and reconciliation. This is the path, patient and at times difficult, that we have decided to take resolutely together.

These first steps open the way which it is now up to us to pursue peacefully.

Delphine, Paola and Albert

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  #571  
Old 10-27-2020, 07:08 AM
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Here is a message of them:

https://www.facebook.com/PlaceRoyale...57396331237161

What a surprise! I have never ever expected that!
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  #572  
Old 10-27-2020, 07:36 AM
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I don't really know what to make of this.
After all these years spent in trials and courts, I cannot but stay cynical over the whole thing.
Maybe it's just their old age that made them rethink everything and they feel like it's time to mend their fences.
But still timing (even with the first statement after Phillipe's meeting with Delphine) makes me think that Phillipe (and his closest collaborators) is the one who decided the path to follow in the whole situation for the entire family.
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  #573  
Old 10-27-2020, 07:39 AM
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I wonder if King Albert will also meet with his grandchildren Josephine and Oscar.
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  #574  
Old 10-27-2020, 07:41 AM
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What a turn around and all looks very cordial at the Château du Belvédère.
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  #575  
Old 10-27-2020, 08:03 AM
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What a turn around and all looks very cordial at the Château du Belvédère.
Absolute surprise but this is how one deals with it,with grace and compassion.
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  #576  
Old 10-27-2020, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marchesina View Post
I don't really know what to make of this.
After all these years spent in trials and courts, I cannot but stay cynical over the whole thing.
Maybe it's just their old age that made them rethink everything and they feel like it's time to mend their fences.
But still timing (even with the first statement after Phillipe's meeting with Delphine) makes me think that Phillipe (and his closest collaborators) is the one who decided the path to follow in the whole situation for the entire family.
I agree, if the issue was as "nice" as they said, it would have been solved off court a LONG time ago.
Also, the fact that they signed with their names at the end as well like Philippe and Delphine did is a clear communication strategy.
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  #577  
Old 10-27-2020, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceflower View Post
King Albert and Queen Paola have met with Princess Delphine on Sunday afternoon at their Belvédère residence:





** Pic **
We can all be all cynical as we want, but this seems to be a very positive step. I thought the statement was very cautiously worded, and perhaps quite rightly so. It is going to be a difficult road ahead, and I am just not convinced it is a path that the three of them may want to necessarily want to travel along.
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  #578  
Old 10-27-2020, 08:39 AM
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It seems to me that Albert and Paola have either decided themselves that its time to look good by medning fences or possibly Phil has urged them to do this, to make the RF look better....
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  #579  
Old 10-27-2020, 08:47 AM
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I am happy for Delphine that she has seen her father again after so many years (and her stepmother), but utterly speechless myself. I don't know what to say...
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  #580  
Old 10-27-2020, 09:14 AM
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Very nice piece of news.... happy for her....
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