Princely House de Ligne


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Princess Isabella attended the movie "Freaks Out" during the 78th Venice International Film Festival in Italy today, September 8:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **
 
On Saturday 23 April , Prince Michel of Ligne, Princess Eleonora and their son, the Hereditary Prince Henri, opened the 32nd Amarílis Contest, at his residence, the Castle of Beloeil, located in the small town also called Beloeil, in the Province of Hainaut, Belgium. The ceremony was attend and Princess Claire


https://www.instagram.com/p/Cc5hEDrMqlL/
 
Prince Michel attended the Commemoration Ceremony for the fallen soldiers of Kortrijk who served in the Belgian SAS Parachute Squadron, as well as those who served in the Special Operations Executive during the Second World War, and the celebration for the 80th anniversary of the para-commando units in Kortrijk today, May 6:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** gettyimages gallery **
 
I wonder who Henri-Antoine de Ligne will marry? If he will marry into the aristocracy, an upperclass girl (old money or nouveau riche), a “commoner” or someone from a completely different background
 
They are 2 Houses of Princes
Prince Michel de Ligne , Head of the House married Princess Eleonore of Orleans Bragance and are living in the Caste of Beloeil.
Prince Charles Anrtoine de Ligne Trémouille and his wife Alyette are living in the Castle of Antoing.
Their Son Edouard married Isabelle an actrice who brought the bacon in the House . 80% of posts in this thread are hers.
 
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maria-olivia said:
They are 2 Houses of Princes
Prince Michel de Ligne , Head of the House married Princess Eleonore of Orleans Bragance and are living in the Caste of Beloeil.
Prince Charles Anrtoine de Ligne Trémouille and his wife Alyette are living in the Castle of Antoing.
Their Son Edouard married Isabelle an actrice who brought the bacon in the House . 80% of posts in this thread are hers.
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I am aware there are two official branches, but I simply steered the thread from the Ligne de LaTremoille branch to the more well known branch associated with the Luxembourg and Orléans-Braganza dynasty as the heir and only son of this branch is over 30 and unmarried, so I wonder who he will marry or at least are there potential matches
 
SirGyamfi1 said:
I am aware there are two official branches, but I simply steered the thread from the Ligne de LaTremoille branch to the more well known branch associated with the Luxembourg and Orléans-Braganza dynasty as the heir and only son of this branch is over 30 and unmarried, so I wonder who he will marry or at least are there potential matches
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I am not sure they qualify as a branch. They are from the very same descent as the De Lignes but only did add the ancient, most noble and most respected maternal surname de La Trémoïlle. The title however, remains the same: prince de Ligne.

Son Altesse Édouard Lamoral Rodolphe de Ligne de La Trémoïlle, prince de Ligne.

Usually a branch means: von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of Belgium, von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of Bulgaria, von Sachsen-Coburg as Dukes in the German ancestral lands, Von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of the United Kingdom, etc.
 
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eya said:
Death of Prince Wauthier de Ligne, aged 70, on 15 August 2022, after a long illness.

https://www.lavenir.net/regions/wal...wauthier-de-ligne-76IMWOQ6SVBARNTI5EJMABOHOE/
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Is he the younger brother of the head of the house? R.I.P Prince de Ligne.

Duc_et_Pair said:
I am not sure they qualify as a branch. They are from the very same descent as the De Lignes but only did add the ancient, most noble and most respected maternal surname de La Trémoïlle. The title however, remains the same: prince de Ligne.

Son Altesse Édouard Lamoral Rodolphe de Ligne de La Trémoïlle, prince de Ligne.

Usually a branch means: von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of Belgium, von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of Bulgaria, von Sachsen-Coburg as Dukes in the German ancestral lands, Von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of the United Kingdom, etc.
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Understood. Thank you.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
I am not sure they qualify as a branch. They are from the very same descent as the De Lignes but only did add the ancient, most noble and most respected maternal surname de La Trémoïlle. The title however, remains the same: prince de Ligne.

Son Altesse Édouard Lamoral Rodolphe de Ligne de La Trémoïlle, prince de Ligne.
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One can say that he was a prince de Ligne, but the title is simply "Prince" and the surname is "de Ligne", or "de Ligne de La Trémoïlle".

Tatiana Maria said:
As shown in the rules of the Belgian national register, the only titles of nobility that are registered with a designation are "King/Queen of the Belgians", "Prince/ss of Belgium" and "Duke/Duchess of Brabant". All other titles of nobility are legally in the form "Prince/ss", "Duke/Duchess" etc. without further designation, even if they are associated with a surname (which is a separate thing).

https://www.ibz.rrn.fgov.be/fileadm...ructions/liste-TI/TI012_Titre_de_noblesse.pdf


code titre : le titre de noblesse est codé par 2 chiffres conformément au tableau ci-dessous :
01
Prince
02
Princesse
03
Duc
04
Duchesse
05
Marquis
06
Marquise
07
Comte
08
Comtesse
09
Vicomte
10
Vicomtesse
11
Baron
12
Baronne
13
Chevalier
15
Ecuyer
17
Archiduc
18
Archiduchesse
19
Grand-Duc
20
Grande-Duchesse
21
Roi des Belges
22
Reine des Belges
23
Prince de Belgique
24
Princesse de Belgique
25
Duc de Brabant,
Prince de Belgique
26
Duchesse de Brabant,
Princesse de Belgique
​
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Duc_et_Pair said:
Usually a branch means: von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of Belgium, von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of Bulgaria, von Sachsen-Coburg as Dukes in the German ancestral lands, Von Sachsen-Coburg as Kings of the United Kingdom, etc.
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I would say that any individual lineage of a family may be referred to as a branch of it.
 
Princess Charlotte de Ligne née de La Trémoille (1892 – 1971) was heiress-general to her father and so is considered to be the XII duchesse de Thouars, XI duchesse de La Trémoïlle, XIV princesse de Tarente, XVIII princesse de Talmond and XVIII comtesse de Laval.

But the French Republic does not do these titles and the Belgian Nobility knows no succession of noble titles by daughters. So her son and grandson "only" are prince de Ligne.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Princess Charlotte de Ligne née de La Trémoille (1892 – 1971) was heiress-general to her father and so is considered to be the XII duchesse de Thouars, XI duchesse de La Trémoïlle, XIV princesse de Tarente, XVIII princesse de Talmond and XVIII comtesse de Laval.

But the French Republic does not do these titles and the Belgian Nobility knows no succession of noble titles by daughters. So her son and grandson "only" are peince de Ligne.
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But were not french titles also inhrerited only in the male line and not through the female line`? Or was it different with these titles?
 
Stefan said:
But were not french titles also inhrerited only in the male line and not through the female line`? Or was it different with these titles?
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Not that I know but at least Princess Charlotte herself was the last agnate in patrilineal line from the Maison de La Trémoïlle.

In some House Laws is stipulated that the most senior female agnate is -for the purpose of the succession- seen as a male when there are no male agnates. I have no idea how that is in the Maison de La Trémoïlle but I think it is only theoretical as neither France nor Belgium see them as ducs de Thouars, ducs de La Trémoïlle, princes de Tarente, princes de Talmond and comtes de Laval.
 
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Do the de Lignes require an 'equal marriage' (or just an approved marriage)? Because if not, I assume his eldest son prince Philippe is now second in line to the headship of the house (and his grandson prince Jean-Charles third) given that the current prince's son (and heir) is still single and without child. Or was his own marriage (and that of his younger brother Antoine) not acknowledged as they only married countesses instead of princesses?
 
Somebody said:
Do the de Lignes require an 'equal marriage' (or just an approved marriage)? Because if not, I assume his eldest son prince Philippe is now second in line to the headship of the house (and his grandson prince Jean-Charles third) given that the current prince's son (and heir) is still single and without child. Or was his own marriage (and that of his younger brother Antoine) not acknowledged as they only married countesses instead of princesses?
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I’m not sure the de Lignes necessarily have strict rules on marriages because some of the family members have married commoners. I don’t think Prince Wauthier’s marriage to a Countess of the Van Renesse family was a problem because they are an old noble family originally from the Netherlands, but I think his wife is from the Belgian branch of the family. More importantly, I don’t think the marriage was a problem and I think his son is in the succession.
 
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SirGyamfi1 said:
When I typed “Americans meet the Prince de Ligne at chateau Beloeil” I came across this article that mentions the current head of the family,

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/20/world/americas/haiti-history-colonized-france.html

Duc_et_pair, did the Lignes ever have a house law of any kind regarding marriages? the only thing I see is that a number of the princes have married those of their milieu,
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Not that I know of, a House Law. Maybe just the nihil obstat from the Chef de la Maison was more or less needed for engaging into marriage. In Belgium State Law trumps House Laws anyway.

For an example Édouard and his brother Charles de Ligne de La Trémoïlle are recent examples of princes with non-noble partners (Isabella Orsini resp. Rian Li) and both seem perfectly accepted by their parents.
 
Somebody said:
Do the de Lignes require an 'equal marriage' (or just an approved marriage)? Because if not, I assume his eldest son prince Philippe is now second in line to the headship of the house (and his grandson prince Jean-Charles third) given that the current prince's son (and heir) is still single and without child. Or was his own marriage (and that of his younger brother Antoine) not acknowledged as they only married countesses instead of princesses?
Click to expand...


His grandmother was neither a Countess nor a Princess so i think that should not be a Problem
 
Stefan said:
But were not french titles also inhrerited only in the male line and not through the female line`? Or was it different with these titles?
Click to expand...
France at a point allowed it and there used to be a provision for that, but I think one of the governments deliberately removed it.
 
Stefan said:
His grandmother was neither a Countess nor a Princess so i think that should not be a Problem
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His grandmother Philippine de Noailles is very aristocratic as daughter of Henri de Noailles, 10e Prince de Poix and of Madeleine Dubois de Courval (des vicomtes de Courval, d'Anizy et de Chavignon).
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
His grandmother Philippine de Noailles is very aristocratic as daughter of Henri de Noailles, 10e Prince de Poix and of Madeleine Dubois de Courval (des vicomtes de Courval, d'Anizy et de Chavignon).
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True. But Madeleine Dubois de Courval is a descendant of an American heiress, Mary Ray.
 
Regarding the inheritance of French titles:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/noblesse.htm#Name

Titles, to the degree that they exist in French law (that is, represent enforceable rights and obligations), exist as part of the family name or patronym, and get the same protection in civil courts as the latter.

Titles are not a full part of the family name, however, for a variety of reasons: they are not inherited by all children equally, but rather follow the rules of inheritance determined by the original grant or act of creation.
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Belgian citizens, however, are not permitted to use a foreign title.

11. As a Belgian, can I use a foreign title of nobility?

No. This is even a punishable act under art. 230 of the Belgian Criminal Code.
Foreign titles awarded to Belgians therefore have no value in Belgium; moreover, they can never be the subject of a recognition procedure.
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https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/pr...rary-distinctions/nobility/faq-about-nobility
 
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Tatiana Maria said:
Regarding the inheritance of French titles:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/noblesse.htm#Name



Belgian citizens, however, are not permitted to use a foreign title.


https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/pr...rary-distinctions/nobility/faq-about-nobility
Click to expand...


I wonder if a Dutch citizen, with a Dutch passport, registered as:

NAAM / SURNAME
Marchant et d'Ansembourg, de

VOORNAMEN / GIVEN NAMES
Leïla Myriam Thérèse Selimé Aimée Guarda Elisabeth Josef Hubertus

ADELLIJKE TITEL / (TITLE OF NOBILITY)
Gravin

PARTNER VAN / PARTNER OF
Lidth de Jeude, Henri Willem Frederik (jonkheer) van

going to Brussels' townhall to register herself as resident of the city,

can not use her 100% very much legal and registered titles of a fellow Benelux and EU memberstate ???

I thought all EU memberstates withing the Schengen Zone accept each other's passports and registrations.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
I wonder if a Dutch citizen, with a Dutch passport, registered as:

NAAM / SURNAME
Marchant et d'Ansembourg, de

VOORNAMEN / GIVEN NAMES
Leïla Myriam Thérèse Selimé Aimée Guarda Elisabeth Josef Hubertus

ADELLIJKE TITEL / (TITLE OF NOBILITY)
Gravin

PARTNER VAN / PARTNER OF
Lidth de Jeude, Henri Willem Frederik (jonkheer) van

going to Brussels' townhall to register herself as resident of the city,

can not use her 100% very much legal and registered titles of a fellow Benelux and EU memberstate ???

I thought all EU memberstates withing the Schengen Zone accept each other's passports and registrations.
Click to expand...
I interpret the Belgian law as long as she doesn't apply for Belgian citizenship she's free, as a foreign national, to use her foreign title.

What I do find noteworthy is the phrase - "This is subject to the condition that the title is indicated on the official personal documents issued by the competent authorities in their country.". Does this mean that a Swedish Count Bielke, who belongs to the second oldest familiy in Sweden, wouldn't be able to use his noble title officially if he resided in Belgium because it's not in his passport?
 
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