Names of the Belgian Royals

[Empress]

HI,

I was just wondering if anyone knew why almost all if not all of the Belgian Royal Family (that are born into the family) have the name Marie.

I know that Queen Victoria once stated that all of her male descendants needed to have the name Albert in their name, but I know nothing of the sort for the Belgian family.

Does any one have any information on this? There are just a few examples below.. It is the same in the Luxembourg Royal Family.

Thanks

April

Léopold Philippe Charles Albert Meinrad Hubertus Marie Miguel
Joséphine-Charlotte Ingeborg Elisabeth Marie-José Marguerite Astrid
Baudouin/Boudewijn Albert Charles Léopold Axel Marie Gustave
Albert Félix Humbert Théodore Chrétien Eugène Marie
Alexander Emmanuel Henry Albert Marie Léopold
Marie-Christine Daphné Astrid Elisabeth Léopoldine,
Maria-Esmeralda Adélaïde Lilian Anne Léopoldine,
Marie-Astrid Charlotte Léopoldine Wilhelmine Ingeborg Antoinette Elisabeth Anna Alberta

 

[Emily]

Someone recently published the names in Mathilde's mother's family and all the women had the name Maria in their names -- perhaps it is a religious thing?

 

[Maxie]

I think it has something to do with the catholic faith. It's common practice for catholics to choose the name Marie/Mary/Maria as one of the names for children to honour the Virgin Mary. But there might as well be another reason, I'm not sure...

 

[Empress]

I might could go for that, except all of the men have it in their names as well.

 

[Maxie]

That's possible too. I have several male catholic friends who have Maria as one of their names too...

 

[Empress]

All in all though, its just seems to be a bit much

 

[Oppie]

It is also part of King Juan Carlos name (Juan Carlos Alfonso Víctor María) and most of the Liechtenstein royal family, so I do believe it is a Catholic tradition.

 

[GrandDuchess]

It is indeed a catholic custom to use the name of Maria/Marie in a persons name, wheter male or female. I think this custom is quite widespread, it's used at least in one or more parts of Germany and the European catholic countries. The name José is also a part of this custom I think.

I don't know much about this, but it would be interesting to learn more. Maybe we have one or several catholic members who can expain the cultural use of it?

 

[crisiñaki]

in catholic countries is very spread the use of names such as Jose (Joseph) for boys and Maria (Mary,Marie) specially in older generations 'cuz in old times people was usually named for the saint of the day, for example if you were born in 10th September, it is Saint Nicholas of Tolentine's day so you were called Nicholas or Nicolás, it was a very widespread tradition in South America and Spain, and if you notice, the members of the SRF continue it (Cristina's fourth name is Antonia for Saint Anthony of Padua, Elena's fourth name is Dominica for Saint Dominic of Silos, etc)

 

[ladybelline]

I'll try to answer this. In my family, everyone, including men, was given Marie as a part of their names. My grandmother explained once it was because of the family's devotion to the Virgin Mary, especially Our-Lady-of-Lourdes, in France.

Maybe the Belgian Royal Family has a special devotion, a special recognition for her too?

 

[Maxie]

I was thinking about all this Marie-stuff and I remembered a nice anecdote which probably is nice to share with you all.

As a matter of fact, I'm catholic and have four names, of which the last starts with a M. A friend once asked me if the M stood for Maria. He was quite surprised when I told him that the M stood for Monica, since I'm named after my godmother whose name is Monique. Being catholic and having Monica instead of Maria just wasn't possible according to him (he's one of my male friends with Maria as one of his names...).
Now I come to think of it, we don't have a Maria tradition in my family. We all got a dozen of names, but almost none of us has Maria in it...

 

[Empress]

I am Catholic as well and have multiple names, but Maria is not one of them. In fact come to think of it, only one person that I know of in my extended family is names Mary

 

[Maxie]

Well, maybe it's an European thing, I don't know. It's actual quite funny that several people from different countries say the same on this matter, I think that naming your child Marie/Mary/Maria after Holy Mary is widespread on this continent.

 

[magnik]

Someone recently published the names in Mathilde's mother's family and all the women had the name Maria in their names -- perhaps it is a religious thing?

Yes, me and Anna Nowak.
Anna Maria countess Komorowska's siblings
1. Gabriel Maria (1943 in Siedliska- )
2. Róża (Rose) Maria (1945 in Cracow- )
3. Anna Maria (1946 in Białogard, near Koszalin- ) married Patrick -civil 1.IX.1971 - Forville, church 11.IX.1971 -Hannut;
4. Michał Leon (1953 in Cracow- ), one of his doughters is Maria Jadwiga
5. Krystyna Maria (1955 in Cracow- ) , one of her dugts is Noemie Marie
6. Maria Teresa (1958 in Gomo, Congo- ).
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f46/mathildes-family-690-7.html

Yes, I think that's after Virgin Mary. Many women and men have the name of Maira as one of their names. In Polish history, we have few queens which first name was Maria, but as a respect to the Virgin Mary, Queen of Poland these queens must used two names like f.ex Maria Casimiera wife of the King John III in XVIIth century.

Marie, Maria in BRF:
kings - Leopold II (Leopold Louis Philippe Marie),Albert I (Albert, Léopold Clément Marie Meinrad); Leopold III (Leopold Philippe Charles Albert Meinrad Hubertus Marie Miguel); Baudoin I (Baudouin Albert Charles Leopold Axel Marie Gustave); Albert II (Albert Felix Humbert Theodore Chretien Eugene Marie).

queens - Louise-Marie d'Orleans (1812-1850), Marie Henriette (1836-1902), Elisabeth Gabriele Valérie Marie (1876-1965); Fabiola Fernanda Maria de las Victorias Antonia Adelaida (1928- ); Paola Margherita Maria Antonia Consiglia (1937- ).

princesses - Marie-Charlottle Amelie Auguste Victoire Clementine Leopoldine (1840-1927) Empress of Mexico; Loise-Marie Amelie (1858-1924); Stephanie Clotilde Louise Hermine Marie Charlotte (1864-1945) wife od Archduke Rudolf; Clementine Albertine Leopoldine Marie (1872-1955) wife of prince Napoleon Victor Bonaparte (1862-1926); Marie (1845-1912) wife of prince Philippe, comte de Flandre; Henriette Marie Charlotte Antoinette(1870-1948); Maria José (1906-2001); Josephine-Charlotte Ingeborg Elisabeth Marie-Jose Marguerite Astrid (1927-2005);Mary Lilian Baels (1916-2002); Marie-Christine (1951- ); Maria-Esmeralda (1956- ); Mathilde Marie Christine Ghislaine, Dss of Brabant; Élisabeth Thérèse Marie Hélène (2001- ); Astrid Joséphine-Charlotte Fabrizia Elisabeth Paola Maria (1962- ); Maria Laura Zita Beatrix Gerhard (1988- ); Luisa Maria Anna Martine Pilar (1995- ); Laetitia Maria Nora Anna Joachim Zita (2003- ); Louise Sophie Mary (2004- ).

princes - Leopold Ferdinand Elie Victor Albert Maire, count of hainaut, D. Brabant (1859-69); Alexander Emmanuel Henry Albert Marie Léopold (1942- ); Philippe Léopold Louis Marie, duke of Brabant; Gabriel Baudouin Charles Marie (2003- ); Emmanuel Leopold Guillaume François Marie (2005);Lorenz Otto Carl Amadeus Thadeus Maria Pius Andreas Marcus (1955- ); Amedeo Marie Joseph Carl Pierre Philippe Paola Marcus (1986- ); Joachim Carl Maria Nikolaus Isabelle Marcus (1991- ); Laurent Benoît Baudouin Marie (1963- ); Nicolas Casimir Marie (2005- )ymeric Auguste Marie (2005- ).

 

[Cathérine Bergeyck]

Marie has always been a very prominent name in Belgium, if not the most prominent.

It's not an unusual thing for catholics to have 'Marie' or 'Maria' as one of your names. Especially not in Belgium and France, for as far as I know.

the 'Mary cult' has always been very important within roman catholic belief, a cult very close to the "common people" and not necessarily to the church as an institution. After all it refers in the first place to the love of a mother for her child.

So in a lot of families it's a tradition use Marie/Maria as one of the names. In the past a first daughter was practically always called Marie/Maria and a first son Joseph in Belgium. In the sixties a name with Marie/Maria as prefix (Marie-Hélène, Marie-Astrid, Marie-Mathilde etc.) was considered upper class. And finally nowadays the name Marie as a first name is very popular again in Belgium.

In 2004 these were the most popular girls names in Belgium:

1
Emma
2
Marie
3
Laura
4
Julie
5
Sarah
6
Clara
7
Manon
8
Léa
9
Lisa
10
Camille


(source: statbel.fgov.be)

 

[AELYS]

it is indeed a tradition to put marie in your name even for boys.
it's like a protection and most of catholics in europe bear the name of marie,
but some of parents does not wish to put marie.

 

[Somebody]

Names of Belgian princes and princesses

Was looking for an appropriate thread to present an overview of all the names of the princes and princess of Belgium for each generation to see which names remained and which names changed over the many decades. Note: names are mostly in Dutch... They typically also use a French version of the name.

Generation 0:
Leopold Joris Christiaan Frederik

Generation I:
* Lodewijk Filips Leopold Victor Ernst
* Leopold Lodewijk Filips Maria Victor
* Filips Eugenius Ferdinand Maria Clemens Boudewijn Leopold George
* Maria Charlotta Amelia Augusta Victoria Clementina Leopoldina

Generation II:
* Louise Marie Amélie
* Leopold Ferdinand Elias Victor Albert Maria
* Stefanie Clotilde Louise Hermine Marie Charlotte
* Clementine Albertine Marie Leopoldine
---
* Boudewijn Leopold Filips Marie Karel Anton Jozef Lodewijk
* Henriëtte Marie Charlotte Antoinette
* Josephine Marie Stephanie Victoire
* Josephine Caroline Marie Albertine
* Albert Leopold Clemens Marie Meinrad

Generation III:
* Leopold Filips Karel Albert Meinrad Hubertus Maria Miguel
* Karel Theodoor Hendrik Anton Meinrad
* Marie José Charlotte Sophie Amélie Henriette Gabrielle

Generation IV:
* Josephine Charlotte Stephanie Ingeborg Elisabeth Maria-Josepha Margaretha Astrid
* Boudewijn Albert Karel Leopold Axel Marie Gustaaf
* Albert Felix Humbert Theodoor Christiaan Eugène Marie
-
* Alexander Emanuel Hendrik Albert Maria Leopold
* Marie-Christine Daphné Astrid Elisabeth Léopoldine
* Marie Esmeralda Adélaïde Liliane Anne Léopoldine

Generation V:
* Filip Leopold Lodewijk Maria
* Astrid Joséphine-Charlotte Fabrizia Elisabeth Paola Marie
* Laurent Benedikt Boudewijn Maria

Generation VI:
* Elisabeth Theresia Maria Helena
* Gabriël Boudewijn Karel Maria
* Emmanuel Léopold Guillaume François Marie
* Eléonore Fabiola Victoria Anne Marie
---
* Amedeo Maria Joseph Carl Pierre Philippe Paola Marcus d'Aviano
* Maria Laura Zita Beatrix Gerhard
* Joachim Carl Maria Nikolaus Isabelle Marcus d'Aviano
* Luisa Maria Anna Martine Pilar
* Laetitia Maria Nora Anna Joachim Zita
---
* Louise Sophie Mary
* Nicolas Casimir Marie
* Aymeric Auguste Marie

The general trend is that the Belgian princes and princesses carry less Belgian royal family names in the more recent generation(s); of course some names within earlier generation have become family names because later generations were named after them - several names that are only included once are easily recognized as being from the 'mother's family'. 10 names (or variants of that name) were given 5 times or more:
1. Maria/Marie/Mary - 35
2. Leopold/Leopoldina/Leopoldine - 16
3. Charlotta/Charlotte/Karel/Caroline/Carl - 14
4. Albert/Albertine - 8
4. Jozef/Josephine/José/Josepha - 8
6. Filips/Filip/Philippe - 7
6. Lodewijk/Louise/Luisa - 7
8. Victor/Victoire/Victoria - 6
9. Boudewijn - 5
10. Elisabeth/Isabelle - 5

While the name Marie/Maria clearly is the most popular and can be found in all generations. Leopold/Leopoldina/e is second because the kings named Leopold named their children after themselves (that explains 10 out of 16 Leopolds). In other generations it's one or two at max.

Several names can be found both in a male and female version. In addition to the above:
Clemens/Clementine (4)
Henriëtte/Hendrik (4)
Anton/Antoinette (3)
Christiaan/Christine (2)
Augusta/Auguste (2)
Gabrielle/Gabriel (2)
Laurent/Laura (2)

 

[Prinsara]

I wonder why neither Leopold III nor Charles was named Baudouin, and it took another generation for the name to be re-used. Appeasing Leopold II? Too painful for Albert? Something else?

Anybody know?

 

[Countessmeout]

I wonder why neither Leopold III nor Charles was named Baudouin, and it took another generation for the name to be re-used. Appeasing Leopold II? Too painful for Albert? Something else?

Anybody know?

More surprising was Leopold III using Baudouin for his eldest son.

Leopold I- sons were Louis, Leopold and Philippe
Leopold II- son was Leopold, Duke of Brabant
Albert I- Leopold, Charles (who seems to have been named after his maternal grandfather)


What is surprising is that Leopold III didn't name his eldest son Leopold or Philippe. Or even use Albert for his eldest son. Baudouin didn't have a history as the name for heir/ 2nd in line. Prince Philippe, Count of Flanders gave it to his eldest son but he himself was only a third son of Leopold I. While his son Baudouin was groomed to be king before his death, he wasn't the direct heir to the throne. The name has no historical weight beyond Albert I's brother.

 

[Prinsara]

More surprising was Leopold III using Baudouin for his eldest son.

Leopold I- sons were Louis, Leopold and Philippe
Leopold II- son was Leopold, Duke of Brabant
Albert I- Leopold, Charles (who seems to have been named after his maternal grandfather)


What is surprising is that Leopold III didn't name his eldest son Leopold or Philippe. Or even use Albert for his eldest son. Baudouin didn't have a history as the name for heir/ 2nd in line. Prince Philippe, Count of Flanders gave it to his eldest son but he himself was only a third son of Leopold I. While his son Baudouin was groomed to be king before his death, he wasn't the direct heir to the throne. The name has no historical weight beyond Albert I's brother.

Which is why it would have seemed more likely for Albert to use it. Aside from the name having some weight in Belgian history, Albert was very much affected by his brother's death (and having the throne fall on him) for the rest of his life.

Which is I'm sure why Leopold and Astrid used it; I just don't know why Albert himself didn't. Perhaps Leopold "had" to be Leopold and Elisabeth very much wanted to honor her father? Or perhaps I'm just stuck on the British parallel of George V.

 

[Countessmeout]

Which is why it would have seemed more likely for Albert to use it. Aside from the name having some weight in Belgian history, Albert was very much affected by his brother's death (and having the throne fall on him) for the rest of his life.

Which is I'm sure why Leopold and Astrid used it; I just don't know why Albert himself didn't. Perhaps Leopold "had" to be Leopold and Elisabeth very much wanted to honor her father? Or perhaps I'm just stuck on the British parallel of George V.

The name has really little weight in Belgian history. If you are speaking of the Baldwins of Flanders, they aren't direct descendants of them. And there are Charles and Philips and one Leopold among the ancestral Flanders as well.

Its not unusual a king would choose a name with royal precedence for his heir. Why we have monarchies with names past X in use because its pretty customary to choose a former reigning monarch's name for your heir. Leopold carried that tradition on. If he had chosen to name his son Philippe for his father there would have been some precedence as well as Leopold I's second son was named Philippe.


Perhaps he wasn't as close to his brother as you think. Or he was more effected by the loss of his brother. He didn't even use Baudouin as a middle name for either of his sons.


Leopold using Baudouin for his heir would have been like Elizabeth II using Andrew for her eldest son. Yes, a family name, but not one you'd expect for the future king. Albert and Baudouin's names being reversed would have been far more expected. Naming their heir for one of the former kings, and then giving their second son the name of an Uncle.

 

[Curryong]

Perhaps Albert felt guilt all his life that his brother who was heir was dead and instead he inherited the Throne. It may be that those feelings were known privately within the family and so Leopold and Astrid decided to make a complete change when Baudouin was born and use a non-traditional name for the heir and at the same time pay a tribute to Leopold's father Albert and his brother. After all, the Belgian Crown was not that ancient. Perhaps the family decided not to imitate other Royal Houses and use the same forenames again and again.

 

[Gawin]

Baudouin was the name of several medieval counts of Flanders as well as Hainaut, so it does carry weight in Belgian history. And BTW, the Coburgs are descendants of both dynasties, as are all of Europe's royal families.

The first Prince Baudouin was born in 1869, a short 38 years after the German Coburgs gained the Belgian throne. By choosing a name from Belgian history, his parents allied the new, foreign dynasty with the older, native dynasties.

The Nassaus of Luxembourg (German imports just like the Coburgs) did likewise when Grand Duchess Charlotte chose the name Jean for her son and heir (rather than Adolphe or Guillaume) and again when Jean named his oldest son Henri. Both names were taken from the medieval Counts/Dukes of Luxembourg. Yes, the Nassaus descend from the earlier dynasty (as do all European royal families) but they did not owe their throne to it.

I don't agree that selecting Baudouin for a Belgian heir is analogous to naming a British heir Andrew. Baudouin is a name steeped in medieval Belgian royal history. The Coburgs simply resurrected it. But Andrew has no royal antecedents in Britain. Alfred, Edgar, Edwin, Ethelred, Constantine, Kenneth, or Malcolm would be better examples (all names of medieval British monarchs).

Because Belgium only became a kingdom in 1830, limiting themselves to the name of a former king for their oldest son meant Leopold III and Astrid had only two choices: Leopold or Albert. They may have selected Baudouin because (1) it was suitably royal (2) in the years following World War I, a name from Belgium's medieval past may have been preferable over Leopold and Albert (both German), (3) it honored Flanders, which was often at odds with the rest of Belgium, and (4) they liked it.

 

[Countessmeout]

Baudouin was the name of several medieval counts of Flanders as well as Hainaut, so it does carry weight in Belgian history. And BTW, the Coburgs are descendants of both dynasties, as are all of Europe's royal families.

The first Prince Baudouin was born in 1869, a short 38 years after the German Coburgs gained the Belgian throne. By choosing a name from Belgian history, his parents allied the new, foreign dynasty with the older, native dynasties.

The Nassaus of Luxembourg (German imports just like the Coburgs) did likewise when Grand Duchess Charlotte chose the name Jean for her son and heir (rather than Adolphe or Guillaume) and again when Jean named his oldest son Henri. Both names were taken from the medieval Counts/Dukes of Luxembourg. Yes, the Nassaus descend from the earlier dynasty (as do all European royal families) but they did not owe their throne to it.

I don't agree that selecting Baudouin for a Belgian heir is analogous to naming a British heir Andrew. Baudouin is a name steeped in medieval Belgian royal history. The Coburgs simply resurrected it. But Andrew has no royal antecedents in Britain. Alfred, Edgar, Edwin, Ethelred, Constantine, Kenneth, or Malcolm would be better examples (all names of medieval British monarchs).

Because Belgium only became a kingdom in 1830, limiting themselves to the name of a former king for their oldest son meant Leopold III and Astrid had only two choices: Leopold or Albert. They may have selected Baudouin because (1) it was suitably royal (2) in the years following World War I, a name from Belgium's medieval past may have been preferable over Leopold and Albert (both German), (3) it honored Flanders, which was often at odds with the rest of Belgium, and (4) they liked it.

Since they used Albert for their second son, they weren't too opposed to a German connection clearly. German being one of the official languages of Belgium it seems a moot point to say its a German name.

They could have used Philippe, in honor of Albert's father. Properly French, properly historic, properly not German if they chose to ignore that side of their country. There were also numerous counts of Flanders by that name.

If they wanted to go Flanders roots there is everything from Charles (there were five). Louis (there were two, and the eldest son of Leopold I was Louis). Joseph. Francis. Baldwin was certainly not the only one to honor if they wanted to pick a Flanders name.


My point with Andrew is that it was picking a 'family name' instead of a regal name. The Kings of Belgium had never been a Baudouin. And there had not been a Count of Flanders with the name since 1205. And since that Baldwin had no sons, at least in the male line they most certainly aren't descended from that Count of Flanders. Okay want one that is a historical royal name. It would have been like naming Charles Thomas. There is a historical precedence of an English prince named Thomas (Edward I, Edward III, Henry IV all had sons Thomas), but certainly not the heir to the throne. King Thomas of GB? Royal families in the past have stuck to very traditional names for their heirs, why we have so many high count names.


The original question was why Albert didn't name either Leopold or Charles for his brother. The German question wasn't an issue back then.

 

[LauraS3514]

Leopold using Baudouin for his heir would have been like Elizabeth II using Andrew for her eldest son. Yes, a family name, but not one you'd expect for the future king.

Although I agree that The Duke of York was named after his paternal grandfather, Andrew is also the name of the Patron Saint of Scotland.

 

[An Ard Ri]

I don't think Belgium will ever see a period of such deep mourning for a member of the RF as was seen following the death of king Baudouin.

 

[maria-olivia]

I have to say that King Albert's eldest Brother was supposed to be King Baudouin but he passed away from ilness at 21 years.
When the Duc and Duchess de Brabant had their first Son in 1930 , King Albert I asked them to call him Baudouin to remember his beloved Brother.

 

[maria-olivia]

Concerning the Bugatti , it was sold in 1967.
When it was sold again Princess Lilian wanted to buy it but another person did
So the 10 miillons euros will not go to the Royal Family but to the present owner 's family.
The price is unexpected , but when it belonged once to a Royal , it is a Honor ...

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Baudouin was the name of several medieval counts of Flanders as well as Hainaut, so it does carry weight in Belgian history. And BTW, the Coburgs are descendants of both dynasties, as are all of Europe's royal families.

The first Prince Baudouin was born in 1869, a short 38 years after the German Coburgs gained the Belgian throne. By choosing a name from Belgian history, his parents allied the new, foreign dynasty with the older, native dynasties.

The Nassaus of Luxembourg (German imports just like the Coburgs) did likewise when Grand Duchess Charlotte chose the name Jean for her son and heir (rather than Adolphe or Guillaume) and again when Jean named his oldest son Henri. Both names were taken from the medieval Counts/Dukes of Luxembourg. Yes, the Nassaus descend from the earlier dynasty (as do all European royal families) but they did not owe their throne to it.

I don't agree that selecting Baudouin for a Belgian heir is analogous to naming a British heir Andrew. Baudouin is a name steeped in medieval Belgian royal history. The Coburgs simply resurrected it. But Andrew has no royal antecedents in Britain. Alfred, Edgar, Edwin, Ethelred, Constantine, Kenneth, or Malcolm would be better examples (all names of medieval British monarchs).

Because Belgium only became a kingdom in 1830, limiting themselves to the name of a former king for their oldest son meant Leopold III and Astrid had only two choices: Leopold or Albert. They may have selected Baudouin because (1) it was suitably royal (2) in the years following World War I, a name from Belgium's medieval past may have been preferable over Leopold and Albert (both German), (3) it honored Flanders, which was often at odds with the rest of Belgium, and (4) they liked it.

Since they used Albert for their second son, they weren't too opposed to a German connection clearly. German being one of the official languages of Belgium it seems a moot point to say its a German name.

They could have used Philippe, in honor of Albert's father. Properly French, properly historic, properly not German if they chose to ignore that side of their country. There were also numerous counts of Flanders by that name.

If they wanted to go Flanders roots there is everything from Charles (there were five). Louis (there were two, and the eldest son of Leopold I was Louis). Joseph. Francis. Baldwin was certainly not the only one to honor if they wanted to pick a Flanders name.


My point with Andrew is that it was picking a 'family name' instead of a regal name. The Kings of Belgium had never been a Baudouin. And there had not been a Count of Flanders with the name since 1205. And since that Baldwin had no sons, at least in the male line they most certainly aren't descended from that Count of Flanders. Okay want one that is a historical royal name. It would have been like naming Charles Thomas. There is a historical precedence of an English prince named Thomas (Edward I, Edward III, Henry IV all had sons Thomas), but certainly not the heir to the throne. King Thomas of GB? Royal families in the past have stuck to very traditional names for their heirs, why we have so many high count names.


The original question was why Albert didn't name either Leopold or Charles for his brother. The German question wasn't an issue back then.

Gawin's point wasn't that there were no other equally historic and traditional options, but that the name Baudouin/Boudewijn was a regal name and did carry serious weight in Belgian royal history, having been the name of numerous monarchs of the medieval county of Flanders, whose historical territory is comprised in the Kingdom of Belgium.

As Gawin points out, the Coburgs are far from alone in naming their kings and princes after monarchs from dynasties that historically reigned over their territories, even when the new dynasty neither owed their throne to those older dynasties nor was descended in from them in male line. He raised the examples of Jean and Henri of Luxembourg, who were named not for grand dukes of Luxembourg from the House of Nassau but for ruling counts of Luxembourg from its medieval reigning dynasty, which was not related to the Nassaus in the male line.

Another recent example of this: Kings Haakon VII, Olav V, and Harald V of Norway were named after medieval kings of Norway, even though the House of Glücksburg does not owe their throne to those kings and is not descended from them in the male line.

 

[Gawin]

Since they used Albert for their second son, they weren't too opposed to a German connection clearly. German being one of the official languages of Belgium it seems a moot point to say its a German name.

But Albert was a second son and not expected to become king.

They could have used Philippe, in honor of Albert's father. Properly French, properly historic, properly not German if they chose to ignore that side of their country. There were also numerous counts of Flanders by that name.

Yes, Philip was properly French, but not as identifiably Belgian as Baudouin. Nine counts of Flanders were named Baldwin. Three were named Philip, six if you count the Habsburgs who ruled what is now Belgium from afar as foreign rulers and for the most part never set foot in it and never thought of themselves as Belgian.

If they wanted to go Flanders roots there is everything from Charles (there were five). Louis (there were two, and the eldest son of Leopold I was Louis). Joseph. Francis. Baldwin was certainly not the only one to honor if they wanted to pick a Flanders name.

But Baudouin was the name they chose. It certainly had more historical importance to the Belgians than the others, especially Joseph or Francis (Habsburg names).

My point with Andrew is that it was picking a 'family name' instead of a regal name. The Kings of Belgium had never been a Baudouin. And there had not been a Count of Flanders with the name since 1205. And since that Baldwin had no sons, at least in the male line they most certainly aren't descended from that Count of Flanders.

All European royal families descend from the last Baldwin's daughter Margaret who became Countess of Flanders and Hainaut.

Okay want one that is a historical royal name. It would have been like naming Charles Thomas. There is a historical precedence of an English prince named Thomas (Edward I, Edward III, Henry IV all had sons Thomas), but certainly not the heir to the throne. King Thomas of GB? Royal families in the past have stuck to very traditional names for their heirs, why we have so many high count names.

No, it would NOT be like naming Charles Thomas. You are ignoring very important differences between Belgian and British royal history. Thomas (and Andrew) were never the names of a sovereign ruler of any territory that later became part of the UK. The name of a king of Mercia, Wessex, the Picts, Strathclyde, etc. would all be better examples.

But Baudouin was the name of several counts of Flanders and Hainaut, once-sovereign territories that later became part of the kingdom of Belgium. It was not simply a "family" name. Before it became a kingdom in 1830, Belgium was made up of various independent provinces including Flanders and Hainaut. The counts and dukes who ruled over these provinces were sovereign, independent rulers, whose territories ultimately fell by inheritance to the Habsburgs. The Coburgs chose to honor this independent past (and link themselves to it) when they selected the name Baudouin. It specifically honored Flanders, which had a fractious relationship with the rest of Belgium, and harbored a strong secessionist sentiment.

Belgium did not become an independent kingdom until 1830. Therefore there were only two REGAL names to choose from: Leopold or Albert.

The original question was why Albert didn't name either Leopold or Charles for his brother. The German question wasn't an issue back then.

Yes, but those aren't the statements I was addressing.