Names of the Belgian Royals

[Prinsara]

Yes, but those aren't the statements I was addressing.

That was the question I asked, though, to see if anyone had a more concrete answer than I did.

Rightly or wrongly, Albert openly said, thought, and believed his brother Baudouin would have made a better king for most of (if not his entire) life. Perhaps he was too haunted to give the name to his sons, but was obviously quite happy to approve it and see it again in his future-king grandson. If he indeed asked Leopold and Astrid for the name, perhaps it shows some difference between younger and older Albert.

 

[maria-olivia]

Royal Traditional names noo but affection names,
Normally we should have had Leopold III, Son of King Leopold II , but he passed away when he was 10 years old.
Albert II , because he was born some months after his grand father King Albert I passed away.
Leopold I first born Son did not have Leopold as name.

 

[Somebody]

If Elisabeth's firstborn would be a son, I wouldn't be surprised if we see another Boudewijn/Baudouin.

If her firstborn would be a daughter, it would be a little harder to predict. Charlotte would probably be one of the safer bets? But given that the future grand duke is already a Charles, I hope she'll pick something else. Clementine would both be a traditional name, one with some history within the family (both in male and female form - most famous: princess Clementine); and one of Mathilde's great-grandfathers was Clément, ridder van Outryve d'Ydewalle, so that part of her family would also be recognized.

 

[Alison H]

Some people do like the historical links - I'm not sure why they'd have been particularly into Baldwin of Flanders, Emperor of Constantinople, et al, but maybe they were, like Henry VII calling his eldest son Arthur, and Nicholas and Alexandra calling their son Alexei rather than Nicholas or Alexander.

I think you're right - Leopold III had to be Leopold, the second son got named after his Bavarian grandfather, and then they didn't have any more sons.

 

[Prinsara]

Royal Traditional names noo but affection names,
Normally we should have had Leopold III, Son of King Leopold II , but he passed away when he was 10 years old.
Albert II , because he was born some months after his grand father King Albert I passed away.
Leopold I first born Son did not have Leopold as name.

I think you're right - Leopold III had to be Leopold, the second son got named after his Bavarian grandfather, and then they didn't have any more sons.

I thought there might have been an element of "placating awful Uncle Leopold" in this somewhere; I just forgot about "deceased Prince Leopold" taking precedence over "deceased Prince Baudouin", so to speak. It makes sense, too – surely Albert would have remembered his young cousin and minded him far less as a namesake?

It doesn't quite answer why neither Leopold III nor Charles had Baudouin even as a middle name, but it skews it slightly away from "unresolved grief" to "lack of opportunity".

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Before it became a kingdom in 1830, Belgium was made up of various independent provinces including Flanders and Hainaut. The counts and dukes who ruled over these provinces were sovereign, independent rulers, whose territories ultimately fell by inheritance to the Habsburgs. The Coburgs chose to honor this independent past (and link themselves to it) when they selected the name Baudouin. It specifically honored Flanders, which had a fractious relationship with the rest of Belgium, and harbored a strong secessionist sentiment.

You make some good points. The historical perspective of modern-day Belgians apparently views the reigns of the Spanish, Austrian, French and Dutch monarchs over the Belgian provinces as a period of colonial rule, with independence being resurrected only in 1830. So as you say, it was sensitive to optics to link the new royal house to the provincial monarchs of the earlier medieval period.

If her firstborn would be a daughter, it would be a little harder to predict. Charlotte would probably be one of the safer bets? But given that the future grand duke is already a Charles, I hope she'll pick something else. Clementine would both be a traditional name, one with some history within the family (both in male and female form - most famous: princess Clementine); and one of Mathilde's great-grandfathers was Clément, ridder van Outryve d'Ydewalle, so that part of her family would also be recognized.

In European ruling families, which typically choose names of prior monarchs for male heirs, I hope to see female heirs equally identified with the royal history of their realm. Therefore, I would like to see the name of a Belgian monarch used for a potential firstborn daughter of Elisabeth.

Note: names are mostly in Dutch... They typically also use a French version of the name.

Apart from the kings, I would say they mostly use the French versions of their names. Prince Laurent for example is known as Laurent even in Dutch.

Amedeo Marie Joseph Carl Pierre Philippe Paola Marcus (1986- );

Amedeo's birth certificate shows his forename to be "Amedeo Maria Josef Carl Pierre Philippe Paola Marco d'Aviano".

His daughter's forename in its entirety, according to her birth certificate, is "Anna Astrid Marie".

https://www.lesoir.be/53935/article...ur-les-princes-qui-ne-seront-plus-de-belgique

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Wikipedia lists the eldest child and heir-apparent of King Leopold I as Louis Philippe Leopold Victor Ernest. I believe the Louis Philippe is after his maternal grandfather, King Louis Philippe I of the French.

 

[maria-olivia]

Indeed and Charlotte for his daughter for Leopold I first wife.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Is Leopold viewed as a reusable name for a future royal prince, or have the actions of Leopold II, and to a lesser degree Leopold III, ended its viability as a royal name for the foreseeable future?

I am aware of Princess Esmeralda's son Leopoldo Moncada, but he was raised outside of the realm as a private citizen and is probably not considered to be royal.

 

[maria-olivia]

For the Rooyal Belgians it is better to have a name which is not different from french and Dutch
Leopold = Leopold
Philippe = Filip
Baudouin = Baudewijn
Charles = Karel
Astrid = Astrid
Laurent = Laurent
Elisabeth = Elisabeth
Gabriel = Gabriel
Emmanuel = Emmanuel
Eléonore = Eléonore.

 

[Prinsara]

Is Leopold viewed as a reusable name for a future royal prince, or have the actions of Leopold II, and to a lesser degree Leopold III, ended its viability as a royal name for the foreseeable future?

I am aware of Princess Esmeralda's son Leopoldo Moncada, but he was raised outside of the realm as a private citizen and is probably not considered to be royal.

You mean as a first name, since (due to Somebody's excellent chart in post #17) we currently have Philippe Leopold on the throne, and his son Emmanuel Leopold even more recently?

There may not be enough enthusiasm or nerve to have an actual "Prince Leopold", but it clearly hasn't turned into some kind of taboo. I honestly think "Leopold" is associated with such a broad amount in Belgium that there could be a Leopold IV in a few generations/someday, always assuming monarchy and country persist.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

You mean as a first name, since (due to Somebody's excellent chart in post #17) we currently have Philippe Leopold on the throne, and his son Emmanuel Leopold even more recently?

There may not be enough enthusiasm or nerve to have an actual "Prince Leopold", but it clearly hasn't turned into some kind of taboo. I honestly think "Leopold" is associated with such a broad amount in Belgium that there could be a Leopold IV in a few generations/someday, always assuming monarchy and country persist.

Yes, I meant as the name that is used in practice. It is one thing to include it in a string of names on a birth certificate, but if Prince Emmanuel announced that going forward he wishes to be known as Prince Leopold/Léopold or if King Philippe proclaimed himself King Leopold IV, I wonder if there would be negative comment.

For the Rooyal Belgians it is better to have a name which is not different from french and Dutch
Leopold = Leopold
Philippe = Filip
Baudouin = Baudewijn
Charles = Karel
Astrid = Astrid
Laurent = Laurent
Elisabeth = Elisabeth
Gabriel = Gabriel
Emmanuel = Emmanuel
Eléonore = Eléonore.

I think the Dutch versions of the names Laurent and Eléonore would by tradition be Laurens and Eleonora respectively. In their cases, the Royal Family made the decision to use the French versions even when writing in Dutch.

Oddly enough, a Dutch version is used for Eléonore's oldest brother, who is officially called Gabriël in Dutch.

 

[maria-olivia]

I am sorry but Laurens and Eleonora are no Belgian Dutch names .

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I am sorry but Laurens and Eleonora are no Belgian Dutch names .

What would be the Belgian Dutch versions of those names?

 

[Prinsara]

It is one thing to include it in a string of names on a birth certificate

Try that when the name is "Adolf". If it were at that level of negative specificity and potential public outrage, I think the name would not be used at all.

but if Prince Emmanuel announced that going forward he wishes to be known as Prince Leopold/Léopold or if King Philippe proclaimed himself King Leopold IV, I wonder if there would be negative comment.

Since it is, and continues to be, in easily-sensitized Belgium, it would seem perhaps it doesn't have automatically negative or problematic connotations. Emmanuel is almost surely not going to be a major player in the monarchy, so I imagine it would be about the same level of interest as the Dutch prince wanting to be simply "Friso".

Philippe? Other than people thinking he was a bit strange, I'm inclined to say no (two long reigns since the Question Royale and his father Albert is the current biggest source of embarrassment) – perhaps they would have simply wished him better luck than the last two Leopold kings and a poor prince?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Try that when the name is "Adolf". If it were at that level of negative specificity and potential public outrage, I think the name would not be used at all.

I'm not familiar with how much public outrage exists in Belgium over children having "Adolf" as one of their names, so I can't comment on the comparison. I was only wondering whether Leopold is for practical purposes excluded from the list of names usable for Belgian royals in the foreseeable future.

Since it is, and continues to be, in easily-sensitized Belgium, it would seem perhaps it doesn't have automatically negative or problematic connotations. Emmanuel is almost surely not going to be a major player in the monarchy, so I imagine it would be about the same level of interest as the Dutch prince wanting to be simply "Friso".

Philippe? Other than people thinking he was a bit strange, I'm inclined to say no (two long reigns since the Question Royale and his father Albert is the current biggest source of embarrassment) – perhaps they would have simply wished him better luck than the last two Leopold kings and a poor prince?

Yes, if there is any potential for negativity over a Prince/King Leopold, I could imagine the seniority of the royal and (in the event of adopting the name as an adult) his reputation influencing the outcome.

 

[Somebody]

Unfortunately, when logged in I still cannot visit the second page of this thread but Tatiana Maria suggested that also future female monarchs should go back in history to find 'monarch's names'.

I would suggest the name 'Margaretha' in that case as the best contender for a future queen: history counts 3 reigning countesses of Flanders with this name.

 

[Somebody]

I think the Dutch versions of the names Laurent and Eléonore would by tradition be Laurens and Eleonora respectively. In their cases, the Royal Family made the decision to use the French versions even when writing in Dutch.

Oddly enough, a Dutch version is used for Eléonore's oldest brother, who is officially called Gabriël in Dutch.

I am sorry but Laurens and Eleonora are no Belgian Dutch names .

What would be the Belgian Dutch versions of those names?

Found a list from 2007 and Laurens is listed at 134 (47 babies) for Flanders and 249 (48 babies) for Belgium in total. Laurent is on the list for Belgium at 741 (12 babies) and at 1028 (4 babies) for Flanders. So, I think we can safely conclude that Laurens is indeed the Flemish/Dutch name for Laurent, not just in the Netherlands but also in Belgium.

Neither the name Eléonore nor Eleonora were given to any child in 2007 (it probably rose in popularity when one year later a princess was given this name). However, Eléonore with the 'é', clearly isn't Dutch/Flemish but French; whether the final letter would be an e or an a (a would probably considered slightly more old-fashioned), it would without a doubt be without the accent on the second e.

As I don't know which sources to use for Belgium, I checked the Dutch Meertens Instituut: Eleonora was given 20 times in 2007 (to keep the same year of reference), Eleonore 9 times and Eléonore 'too few times to produce a popularity graph'; however, it does indicate that if the name appears it is mostly by those born in France.

Edit: Found something for Belgium (StatBel):
Popularity of Eleonora in Flanders: between 10-20 births per year (prior to the princess' birth it was about 5 a year)
Popularity of Eleonore in Flanders: between 5-10 births per year (the name is even less popular in Wallonia)
(Unfortunately, they don't distinguish between names with and without accent aigu)
So, it seems that Eleonora is the preferred version in Flemish/Dutch.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

There have been three Counts of Flanders named Robert. Robert could be used for the name of the King of the Belgians.