Belgian Nobility

[MAfan]

Count Claude de Lannoy-Cervaux died on 4 may 2014, aged 82.

He was the youngest child but only son of Count Jules de Lannoy-Cervaux and of his second wife, née Jarrakieva Anguelcova.
He was married since 1968 to Karen Butler, by whom he had a daughter Christine.

Le Site du Carnet Mondain : Carnet du jour
Lannoy


Count Quentin d'Ursel died on 8 May 2014, aged 67.

He was the youngest child of Duke Henri d'Ursel, by his second wife Madeleine (née André).
He was married since 1971 to Marianne Dangis, by whom he had two children, daughter Alexandra and son Quentin.

Le Site du Carnet Mondain : Carnet du jour
Ursel

[Marengo]

As copied from this post of Biri:

Originally Posted by Biri

Count Philippe of Limburg-Stirum, who turned 30 three weeks ago [son of Count Christian of Limburg-Stirum (b.1934) & his wife Colienne, nee Countess of Oultremont (b.1956)] is engaged to Countess Caroline von Neipperg (b.10 October 1986) [daughter of Count Stephan-Christoph von Neipperg (b.1957) & his wife Sigweis, nee Freiin von Stotzingen (b.1959)]. They plan to marry this year.

Philippe is second of four children and second one who marries; his older brother Rudolph (b.1979) married Archduchess Marie-Christine of Austria (b.1983) in 2008 and has two sons: Leopold (b.2011) & Constantin (b.2013).
Marie (b.1986) & Francois-Guillaume (b.1989) are still single.

Caroline is the oldest of four surviving children and first one who marries; her older sister Beatrice died in 1994 aged five weeks and three days.
Her younger siblings are: Diane (b.1990), Philippa (b.1991) & Ludovic (b.1994).

On a side note: the grooms brother -count Rodolphe- is maried to ADss Marie Christine of Austria, his aunt-by-marriage is Pss Helene of France and the bride-to-be's aunt-by-marriage is Archduchess Andrea, eldest sister of the present head of the former Imperial family of Austria.

-
The Limburg-Stirum family is originally from Germany and moved to The Netherlands several centuries ago. A junior member moved to Belgium, his descendants are catholics & and at the moment the most well known members of the family are Belgian. The head of the family and his children are living in Finland.

[MAfan]

Xavier Coppetieres de Gibson, husband of Countess Françoise de Lannoy, died on 10 Janauary 2016 in Watermael-Boitsfort.

He was born on 11 October 1928 and was married since 1963 to Countess Françoise de Lannoy, the youngest child of the late Count and Countess Maurice de Lannoy.
They were parents of three children (Clothilde, Arnold and Baudouin).
He is survived by his wife, their children, children-in-law and eleven grandchildren.

inmemoriam.be - Xavier COPPIETERS de GIBSON († 10/1/2016) (FR)
Lannoy

[Blog Real]

Xavier Gibson Coppieters and Françoise de Lannoy are related Stéphanie de Lannoy?

[MAfan]

Yes they are. Countess Françoise de Lannoy is a daughter of Count Maurice, himself the youngest brother of Count Philippe, the great-grandfather of Stéphanie.

Countess Françoise is also the aunt of Minthia de Lannoy, the wife of Prince Lamoral de Ligne (the son of the late Prince Antoine de Ligne and of Princess Alix of Luxembourg).

[iceflower]

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Paola of Assche attended the Paris Fashion Week Womenswear Fall/Winter 2017/2018 on March 2:


** Pic **

[Fashionista101]

What are the rankings of Belgian nobility?
What is the difference between Jonkheer and Lord?

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Fashionista101

What are the rankings of Belgian nobility?
What is the difference between Jonkheer and Lord?

The usual ranks are count (comte/graaf) and baron; there is also, however, the rank of viscount (vicomte/burggraaf) , which is lower than count, but higher than baron, and a hereditary title of knight (ridder), which is lower in rank than baron and is similar to a British baronet. A jonkheer , on the other hand, is basically an untitled member of the nobility.


Many Belgian titles of nobility are transmitted to all descendants in male line , i.e. all sons and umarried daughters of a baron are also barons or baronesses themselves. However, in some families where a title of baron for example is inherited only by the firstborn, the other younger children may hold the rank of jonkheer or jonkvrouw. The rank is, however, also hereditary in male line, so that sons of a jonkheer are also jokheren themselves and daughters of a jonkheer are jonkvrouwen until they get married.

In some other cases, on the other hand, a family may have been recognized as noble without having been given any title such as count or baron. In that cases, all descendants in male line of that family are also born as jonkheren or jonkvrouwen.

[Fashionista101]

Okay.
But what about Marquis and Duke?
Is there a difference between Lord and Jonkheer?

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Fashionista101

Okay.
But what about Marquis and Duke?
Is there a difference between Lord and Jonkheer?

Others may give you a better answer, but, as far as I understand, the titles of duke and possibly marquis have never been granted in the current Kingdom of Belgium (established in 1831). There are a few Belgian families who bear those titles, but they were conferred by a foreign sovereign, usually befote 1795 , for example they are German imperial titles, or French titles, or titles granted in the period of Austrian rule in the southern Netherlands (i.e between the Treaty of Utrecht and the French occupation). By royal decree, the king's firstborn has the title of Duke or Duchess of Brabant, but that is not a hereditary title of nobility, but rather a personal title of the heir to the throne.

In the Kingdom of Netherlands on the other hand, unlike in Belgium, there are no surviving ducal families, and there are only two or three recognized titles of marquis, all of which are held by families who don't live in the Netherlands.

[Fashionista101]

Is a Lord and Jonkheer the same?
What are the style manners of address of the nobility?

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Fashionista101

Is a Lord and Jonkheer the same?

Generally no, but in some cases maybe.

In the UK, any peer of the realm other than a duke is styled a Lord. So, the Earl of Grantham in the Downton Abbey TV series for example is addressed and referred to as Lord Grantham. That is clearly different from a jonkheer, who, as I explained, is an untitled member of the nobility.

However, in the UK, a Lord can also be a younger son of a duke or marquess (i.e. a son who is not the heir to the peerage). In that case though, he is addressed using his full given name(s) and family name, e.g. Lord Alfred Henry Paget, as opposed to Lord + Designation of the Title as it would be the case for peers. A British Lord in the sense of a cadet son of a duke or marquess would be similar to a jonkheer in Belgium and the Netherlands, with the difference that, unlike the rank of jonkheer, the honorific Lord in that case is not hereditary in the UK. i.e. the son of a cadet son of a duke or marquess is not a Lord himself.

I believe that, in the past, the eldest sons of younger sons of peers, and their respective eldest sons in perpetuity used to be designated "esquires" in the UK, which would be perhaps the closest to a Dutch/Belgium jonkheer (sometimes translated in French as écuyer), but I think that convention is no longer used in the UK. Does anybody know for sure ?

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

[...]
In the Kingdom of Netherlands on the other hand, unlike in Belgium, there are no surviving ducal families, and there are only two or three recognized titles of marquis, all of which are held by families who don't live in the Netherlands.

The core base of the Belgian Nobility is the Filiatieregister of all family names which belong to the Nobility. The Hoge Raad van Adel (High Council of Nobility) of the Kingdom of the Netherlands started with this register in 1814, in order of King Willem I of the Netherlands.

Then the first so-called Adelslijst (List of Nobility) - consisting of 305 pages - was published in the State Gazette Nr 61 of 1825, see link.

The biggest chunk of today's hereditary Nobility in Belgium still comes from this Adelslijst of King Willem I. There are 7 princely families in Belgium (There were more but for an example the House of Croÿ has no prince anymore, it went to the German branch Croÿ-Solre. The House of Arenberg has no prince anymore. The House of Béthune-Hesdigneul has become extinct, etc.).

de Ligne
Enlisted into the first Adelslijst of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Habsbourg-Lorraine
Incorporation into the Nobility of Belgium in 1978

Lobkowicz
Admission into the Nobility of Belgium in 1958

de Merode
Enlisted into the first Adelslijst of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Chimay
Enlisted into the first Adelslijst of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Swiatopolk-Czetwertynski
Recognition into the Nobility of Belgium in 2007.

Waterloo
Enlisted into the first Adelslijst of the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

[Lady Nimue]

Am enjoying the conversation. A lot of reading to catch up on.

[maria-olivia]

In French Monsieur (Ecuyer not written) et Madame : in Dutch Jonkheer en Mevrouw
in French Chevalier et Madame(first Order of Nobility) : in Dutch Ridder en Mevrouw
In French Baron et Baronne : in Dutch Baron en Barones
In French Comte et Comtesse : in Dutch Graaf en Gravin
In French Duc et Duchesse : in Dutch Hertog en Hertogin

[Fashionista101]

Is the untitled Belgian nobility gentry?
Are Lord and Jonkheer the same?

[maria-olivia]

Absolutely not LORD is far more important !

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Fashionista101

What are the rankings of Belgian nobility?
What is the difference between Jonkheer and Lord?

Jonkheer is a Belgian title and a Dutch predicate; Lord is a British title.

http://diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/Diensten/Protocol/adel/faq

3. Welke adellijke titels bestaan er in België?
Van laag naar hoog zijn dit: jonkheer/jonkvrouw, ridder (geen vrouwelijk equivalent), baron/barones, burggraaf/burggravin, graaf/gravin, markies/markiezin, hertog/hertogin, prins/prinses.

3. Which noble titles exist in Belgium?
From low to high they are: jonkheer/jonkvrouw, knight (no female equivalent), baron/baroness, viscount/viscountess, count/countess, marquis/marchioness, duke/duchess, prince/princess.

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Many Belgian titles of nobility are transmitted to all descendants in male line , i.e. all sons and umarried daughters of a baron are also barons or baronesses themselves. However, in some families where a title of baron for example is inherited only by the firstborn, the other younger children may hold the rank of jonkheer or jonkvrouw. The rank is, however, also hereditary in male line, so that sons of a jonkheer are also jokheren themselves and daughters of a jonkheer are jonkvrouwen until they get married.

Daughters hold their titles after marriage as well. For example, Queen Mathilde holds the title and surname Countess d'Udekem d'Acoz, as can be seen in a Royal Decree published in December 2001:

Ordre de Léopold
Par arrêté royal du 19 septembre 2000 a été nommée :
Grand Cordon
La Princesse Mathilde, Marie, Christine, Ghislaine, Comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz, Duchesse de Brabant, Princesse de Belgique (19.09.2000).

Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad

Originally Posted by Fashionista101

What are the style manners of address of the nobility?

I believe they are addressed in French as Messire/Madame, and in Dutch as mijnheer/mevrouw.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

Jonkheer is a Belgian title and a Dutch predicate; Lord is a British title.

http://diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/Diensten/Protocol/adel/faq

3. Welke adellijke titels bestaan er in België?
Van laag naar hoog zijn dit: jonkheer/jonkvrouw, ridder (geen vrouwelijk equivalent), baron/barones, burggraaf/burggravin, graaf/gravin, markies/markiezin, hertog/hertogin, prins/prinses.

3. Which noble titles exist in Belgium?
From low to high they are: jonkheer/jonkvrouw, knight (no female equivalent), baron/baroness, viscount/viscountess, count/countess, marquis/marchioness, duke/duchess, prince/princess.




Daughters hold their titles after marriage as well. For example, Queen Mathilde holds the title and surname Countess d'Udekem d'Acoz, as can be seen in a Royal Decree published in December 2001:

Ordre de Léopold
Par arrêté royal du 19 septembre 2000 a été nommée :
Grand Cordon
La Princesse Mathilde, Marie, Christine, Ghislaine, Comtesse d'Udekem d'Acoz, Duchesse de Brabant, Princesse de Belgique (19.09.2000).

Moniteur Belge - Belgisch Staatsblad



I believe they are addressed in French as Messire/Madame, and in Dutch as mijnheer/mevrouw.

Surnames and titles stay with a person their whole life long, also for females. This is the case in the three Benelux countries. The Dutch lady Leila gravin de Marchant et d'Ansembourg is married to the Belgian Jonkheer Henri Van Lidth de Jeude.

Her married name is mevrouw Leila Marie Agnes Genevieve Andrée van Lidth de Jeude - gravin de Marchant et d'Ansembourg. This couple's children are jonkheer or jonkvrouw Van Lidth de Jeude, as only a title or predicate of the father can be inherited.

Names and titles are not given up when engaging into marriage. Tradition is to hypenate to the husband's surname.

[maria-olivia]

I never heard Messire, Madame in my whole life !
Only in Necrologie the word Messire is mentionned.....