Belgian National Day - 21 July, 1: 2009-2022

[Durham]

He's American.

Thank you.

 

[Mbruno]

I still think she does not belong there. But then if she want's to attend and the King is ok with it i think she should not be seated in the front row but more in the background.

It is not clear to me yet if Delphine was included in the line of succession or not by the court decision. My understanding would be that she was not, but I don't think that was ever clarified. In any case, that (plus birth order) would be her only substantive difference from Astrid or Laurent. In terms of or rank or precedence, they are equals as HRH Prince/Princess of Belgium, so it would be hard to justify seating her further to the back.

 

[Skippy]

He's American.

Thank you.

Actually he is Irish-American

 

[Mbruno]

Actually he is Irish-American

Do you mean he has dual nationality? Or that he is an American of Irish descent?

 

[Marchesina]

Let's put it this way. This was an no-win situation for Philippe, damned if he invited her, damned if he didn't.
Public opinion wanted to see what the family would do in an occasion like this and Philippe probably thought it best to avoid any criticism for not inviting her. Or he simply wanted to mark this reconciliation/recognition through the invitation, showing to the Nation not only he acknowledges, but also regards her as a member of his family, close enough to be there.
And as for the comparison to Astrid's or Laurent's children who do not receive an invitation every year: unlike Delphine, they were all born princes/princesses of Belgium and their place within the family has never been questioned.
Will her presence be regular from now on or will this be a one-off thing? I don't know and tbh I don't care. IMO it was a good decision to have her there.

 

[Skippy]

Do you mean he has dual nationality? Or that he is an American of Irish descent?

I cannot find a clear explanation, but I suspect the latter (American of Irish descent).

 

[An Ard Ri]

Do you mean he has dual nationality? Or that he is an American of Irish descent?

I always believed he American of Irish descent?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Isn't it up to the King to decide who he wants at which ceremony? Before Delphine there was the annual fuss about what was happening with Laurent.

Do we know if Delphine will be there every year? No. Does it really matter? No. She's family; she's not a random stranger up there, that's the point.

Philippe is sending a message by not excluding her from the first National Day after they are officially siblings. That seems to matter more than prior protocol.

If King Philippe's decisions this year on whom to include or exclude from the official seating at the parade are crafted to send a message about who he does and does not view as family, that would signify that his nieces and nephews, parents, aunts, etc. who have been excluded are not family in his eyes. I hope that is not the case.

It is not clear to me yet if Delphine was included in the line of succession or not by the court decision. My understanding would be that she was not, but I don't think that was ever clarified. In any case, that (plus birth order) would be her only substantive difference from Astrid or Laurent. In terms of or rank or precedence, they are equals as HRH Prince/Princess of Belgium, so it would be hard to justify seating her further to the back.

Other substantive differences include that, at least for the moment, she does not receive a taxpayer funded dotation or have an official role as a working royal.

Let's put it this way. This was an no-win situation for Philippe, damned if he invited her, damned if he didn't.
Public opinion wanted to see what the family would do in an occasion like this and Philippe probably thought it best to avoid any criticism for not inviting her. Or he simply wanted to mark this reconciliation/recognition through the invitation, showing to the Nation not only he acknowledges, but regards her as a member of her family close enough to be there.
And as for the comparison to Astrid's or Laurent's children who do not receive an invitation every year: unlike Delphine, they were all born princes/princesses of Belgium and their place within the family was never questioned.

There have been press reports of dissension and rifts between King Philippe and his full siblings over the years, and his exclusion of his nieces and nephews from official events is a public matter.

But I take your point that the king is not being subjected to the same scrutiny in the court of public opinion for his treatment of his (marital) nieces and nephews as he is in relation to Princess Delphine.

 

[Marchesina]

But I take your point that the king is not being subjected to the same scrutiny in the court of public opinion for his treatment of his (marital) nieces and nephews as he is in relation to Princess Delphine.

Not only that. Many were wondering (on this forum as well) how Astrid had reacted to the ruling and whether or not she had met her half sister - knowing she is the closest to Albert and Paola.
While I agree this should be none of our business, it is inevitable that the most prominent family in Belgium is subjected to a certain degree of scrutiny for the public and the press.
Her presence today silenced any rumour.

 

[leidi]

Let's put it this way. This was an no-win situation for Philippe, damned if he invited her, damned if he didn't.
Public opinion wanted to see what the family would do in an occasion like this and Philippe probably thought it best to avoid any criticism for not inviting her. Or he simply wanted to mark this reconciliation/recognition through the invitation, showing to the Nation not only he acknowledges, but regards her as a member of her family close enough to be there.
And as for the comparison to Astrid's or Laurent's children who do not receive an invitation every year: unlike Delphine, they were all born princes/princesses of Belgium and their place within the family was never questioned.
Will her presence be regular from now on or will this be a one-off thing? I don't know and tbh I don't care. IMO it was a good decision to have her there.

100% agree with you.
The best thing Philippe can do is to normalize Delphine's presence in public acts.
And for why the nieces/nephews aren't treated the same way? Well, they aren't the kids of a King, aren't they? Delphine is.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

And for why the nieces/nephews aren't treated the same way? Well, they aren't the kids of a King, aren't they? Delphine is.

Princesses Marie-Christine and Esmeralda and the late Prince Alexandre are/were children of a King, but are not treated the same way as Princess Delphine.

 

[Marchesina]

Princesses Marie-Christine and Esmeralda and the late Prince Alexandre are/were children of a King, but are not treated the same way as Princess Delphine.

Born of a morganatic marriage, though. In the past this meant they could not be equal to the children born of Leopold's first marriage.
While I agree it was a sad situation, if it was someone's responsibility to fix this disparity, it was Baudouin's or Albert's.

 

[Prinsara]

Princesses Marie-Christine and Esmeralda and the late Prince Alexandre are/were children of a King, but are not treated the same way as Princess Delphine.

Yes, not only was Philippe not the one in charge at the time, but Leopold's younger children never faced a word of controversy as to who their father was, nor were they ever denied princely status or a place in the royal family or a relationship with their older half-siblings.

So, no, they were not treated the same way as Delphine.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Born of a morganatic marriage, though. In the past this meant their children could not be equal to the children born of Leopold's first marriage.
While I agree it was a sad situation, if it was someone's responsibility to fix this disparity, it was Baudouin's or Albert's.

Yes, not only was Philippe not the one in charge at the time, but Leopold's younger children never faced a word of controversy as to who their father was, nor were they ever denied princely status or a place in the royal family or a relationship with their older half-siblings.

So, no, they were not treated the same way as Delphine.

My post was in answer to a comment that Princess Delphine was invited to National Day while King Philippe's nieces and nephews were not because she she is a daughter of a king and they are not. The point was that this cannot be King Philippe's (only) reason, as according to the same logic his aunts would be invited as well.

Regarding Leopold's younger children and the comment about Delphine being "denied princely status or a place in the royal family", I have answered in General Questions and Informations about the Royal Family of Belgium

 

[Marengo]

I still think she does not belong there. But then if she want's to attend and the King is ok with it i think she should not be seated in the front row but more in the background.

If she would be seated in the background would that not signal she is a 2nd-rate family member? Considering the fight Delphine had to deliver to get accepted I imagine many people would have found that rather odd. Although royalty-watchers will understand it, the general public may wonder why such a thing would be happening.

I think the King was wise to show that he has fully accepted her. Compared to some other family members Delphine may even be considered less problematic at this point. It was a difficult situation but the King was able to take control of it and he has come out of the scandal in a stronger position even. I think he has handled it in a very humane but also in a very clever way TBH. I have read and heard nothing but praise. And it was noted that even Pss Astrid stopped to talk to her half-sister, which made royalty-journalists believe that the reconciliation is genuine.

 

[leidi]

My post was in answer to a comment that Princess Delphine was invited to National Day while King Philippe's nieces and nephews were not because she she is a daughter of a king and they are not. The point was that this cannot be King Philippe's (only) reason, as according to the same logic his aunts would be invited as well.

Regarding Leopold's younger children and the comment about Delphine being "denied princely status or a place in the royal family", I have answered in General Questions and Informations about the Royal Family of Belgium

The situation changed since the times of Leopold and Lilian. People wouldn't have stood for Delphine not to be treated "equally" (in terms of protocol at least) as Marengo has said.

 

[Mbruno]

Born of a morganatic marriage, though. In the past this meant they could not be equal to the children born of Leopold's first marriage.

Delphine, on the other hand, is an illegitimate child who was later legitimized by a court decision (as I interpret it).

The fact that children of a legal, albeit morganatic, marriage were treated unequally, while a daughter born out of wedlock is now officially embraced by the Royal Family tells a lot IMHO about how society has changed in the past decades.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The situation changed since the times of Leopold and Lilian. People wouldn't have stood for Delphine not to be treated "equally" (in terms of protocol at least) as Marengo has said.

The fact that children of a legal, albeit morganatic, marriage were treated unequally, while a daughter born out of wedlock is now officially embraced by the Royal Family tells a lot IMHO about how society has changed in the past years.

As two of Leopold and Lilian's children are still living, and the third died only 12 years ago, the explanation still leaves the question of why the changed societal situation has not changed their treatment in terms of royal protocol, unlike Delphine's.

Public opinion is divided in terms of royal duties. I've not read survey figures regarding the children of Leopold and Lilian, or Philippe's nieces and nephews, but in a survey conducted in February 2020 65% of Belgians believed that Delphine should not be given an official role if eventually recognized as Albert II's daughter.


ETA: Perhaps this discussion should be moved to the Princess Delphine thread or the General Information thread, as it is no longer about National Day specifically?

 

[Erin9]

I think it's King Philippe's way of showing that Delphine is included in the family. That's why Delphine is invited to some events where her brothers are.

In fact, the whole family seems to handle it well.

King Philippe was smart and resolved a situation that lasted for many years.

Agreed.

I think he wants to make a point of including her, especially after she fought so long to just be acknowledged. It was a smart decision IMO. Albert treated her very poorly for quite some time- and very publicly poorly at that.

I think it was a kind decision as well.

 

[leidi]

As two of Leopold and Lilian's children are still living, and the third died only 12 years ago, the explanation still leaves the question of why the changed societal situation has not changed their treatment in terms of royal protocol, unlike Delphine's.

Public opinion is divided in terms of royal duties. I've not read survey figures regarding the children of Leopold and Lilian, or Philippe's nieces and nephews, but in a survey conducted in February 2020 65% of Belgians believed that Delphine should not be given an official role if eventually recognized as Albert II's daughter.


ETA: Perhaps this discussion should be moved to the Princess Delphine thread or the General Information thread, as it is no longer about National Day specifically?

I think it also has to do with the public perception of both Leopold and Lilian, who weren't exactly popular due to their wartime actions and other things.

Delphine won't be given any kind of official role, that has been clear from the beginning but she's the daughter of a King and the sister of another King, hence she's invited to certain public acts.

 

[Mbruno]

As two of Leopold and Lilian's children are still living, and the third died only 12 years ago, the explanation still leaves the question of why the changed societal situation has not changed their treatment in terms of royal protocol, unlike Delphine's.

Probably because Lilian's daughters are Philippe's aunts, not his sisters. Only siblings and children of the monarch are normally officially in attendance at the National Day Parade. The question should be why they were not invited during Albert's reign.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I think it also has to do with the public perception of both Leopold and Lilian, who weren't exactly popular due to their wartime actions and other things.

Delphine won't be given any kind of official role, that has been clear from the beginning but she's the daughter of a King and the sister of another King, hence she's invited to certain public acts.

So your assessment, as I comprehend it, is that the set pattern is to invite children and siblings of Kings, and only them, to National Day in a public role, irrespective of their status as working or non-working royals, and the exclusion of Esmeralda and her siblings is an exception to the pattern, possibly due to the unpopularity of their parents.

I hope that is not the case. It would be unkind for the children of Leopold and Lilian to be punished today for the actions of their parents 80 years earlier.

It is still my feeling that the pattern under King Philippe is to invite working royals exclusively to National Day in a public role, but that he decided to make an exception for Princess Delphine, probably, as many here suggested, as a gesture to demonstrate the family's acceptance and reconciliation to her and to the public. But that is a matter of speculation.

Probably because Lilian's daughters are Philippe's aunts, not his sisters. Only siblings and children of the monarch are normally officially in attendance at the National Day Parade. The question should be why they were not invited during Albert's reign.

Interesting thought. During the reign of Albert II, the only living paternal aunt/uncle of the King was Marie-José, the last Queen of Italy. Is it possible that her marriage into another royal family, and not her relationship to the king, was the reason she was not invited?

 

[Somebody]

And it doesn't work for Baudouin's reign either: his full sister and husband weren't invited (they were reigning monarchs in a neighboring country), his full brother was invited but not his 3 half-siblings (same category as Delphine); and I assume that his niece and nephews were invited as well without being children or sibling of the king?!

So, for me, the only logical reasoning is that until today those in line to the throne were invited. More recently, invitation/presence was limited to siblings and children of the monarch within that group as the number would be rather large if they didn't - while the other grandchildren/nieces and nephews in line to the throne sometimes (as an exception to the 'rule') joined their parents.

 

[eya]

Princess Delphine about to be present at the National Day


https://www.instagram.com/p/CRn5y95hbUx/

 

[maria-olivia]

It is sad that such a lot of threads in the Royal Forums are devoted to Delphine who here stole the show of this special National Day devoted to thre sorrow of the belgians.

From the roof to the base of the Royal Palace they placed two big flags one for the Covid and one for the inondations in Wallonia.

In my french Newspaper la Libre Belgique the Cover and 8 special pages about the now terrible devasted situation and two pages about the National Day with the King's Speech He was to change in the last Minutes and 2 small pictures of Elisabeth and Delphine without any comment.

 

[Marchesina]

It is sad that such a lot of threads in the Royal Forums are devoted to Delphine who here stole the show of this special National Day devoted to thre sorrow of the belgians.

From the roof to the base of the Royal Palace they placed two big flags one for the Covid and one for the inondations in Wallonia.

In my french Newspaper la Libre Belgique the Cover and 8 special pages about the now terrible devasted situation and two pages about the National Day with the King's Speech He was to change in the last Minutes and 2 small pictures of Elisabeth and Delphine without any comment.

I am deeply sorry for what happened in Belgium and it was really emotional to watch the parade and the homage paid to the heroes who helped people throughout both the pandemic and the flood, but this is a forum about royalty and it is normal that our focus is on the royal family.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

For those interested in an overview: yes, the children have been attending the National Day celebrations for years (both parade and Te Deum): [...]

Thank you very much for the overview! Unfortunately, TRF does not permit me to quote the post in full. Perhaps you or someone else could give it a try as it is an useful overview.

And here is an overview of which members of the family were acknowledged as official guests in the palace agenda (whose entries currently only date back to 2014)

2021:
Te Deums: King and Queen (Brussels), Astrid and Lorenz (Hasselt), Laurent (Bergen)
Parade: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz, Laurent, Delphine and Jim O'Hare

2020:
Concert: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz, Laurent
Te Deum: King and Queen with Elisabeth & Gabriel & Emmanuel & Eléonore (Brussels)
Ceremony (replacing parade): King and Queen, Elisabeth & Gabriel & Emmanuel & Eléonore, Astrid and Lorenz, Laurent

2019:
Concert : King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz
21 July Te Deums: King and Queen (Brussels), Astrid and Lorenz (Namur), Laurent (Brugge, representing the King)
Parade: the agenda says "they" attended
Festival: King and Queen(?) (the agenda says "they" attended), Astrid and Lorenz, Laurent and Claire


2018:
Concert: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz
Te Deums: King and Queen (Brussels), Astrid and Lorenz (Liège), Laurent and Claire (Ghent)
Parade: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz, Laurent and Claire
Festival: King and Queen

2017:
Concert: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz
Te Deums: King and Queen (Brussels), Astrid and Lorenz (Leuven), Laurent and Claire (Wavre)
Parade: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz, Laurent and Claire
Festival: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz, "the members of the Royal Family"

2016:
Concert: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz
Te Deums: King and Queen (Brussels), Astrid and Lorenz (Arlon), Laurent (Hasselt)
Parade: King and Queen, Laurent
Festival: King and Queen

2015:
Concert: King and Queen, Astrid and Lorenz
Te Deums, parade, festival: King and Queen "and the Royal Family"

2014:
Concert: King and Queen, other "members of the Royal Family"
Te Deum, parade, festival: King and Queen "and the Royal Family"

 

[iceflower]

This year King Philippe, Queen Mathilde, Princess Astrid and Prince Lorenz, Prince Laurent and Princess Claire, Princess Delphine and Jim O'Hare are listed to attend the military and civil parade at the Place des Palais:


** monarchie: La Fête nationale **

 

[iceflower]

King Philippe's National Day speech has been released today:


** rex gallery ** A copy of his speech in French ** ..in Dutch ** ..in German **

And in the evening King Philippe, Queen Mathilde, Princess Astrid and Prince Lorenz attended the traditional concert on the eve of National Day:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 ** rex gallery ** gettyimages gallery **gtresnews gallery ** ppe gallery **

 

[Marengo]

Laurent was supposed to be attending the concert tonight, but apparently he did not.