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  #21  
Old 10-12-2020, 02:31 AM
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Queen Mathilde have her third goddaughter , a 7th daughter in the row


Queen Mathilde: Hyle-Mathilde Blakaj
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2020, 03:09 AM
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What a wonderful tradition.
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  #23  
Old 10-14-2020, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Not all immigrants and not only immigrants. For example the Orthodox Jews, of which there are many in Belgium, has a high birthrate.
Judaism doesn't have godparents, though, so it's not applicable to this discussion.
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  #24  
Old 10-14-2020, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Judaism doesn't have godparents, though, so it's not applicable to this discussion.
According to the article on Mathilde's third goddaughter by this tradition, one of the three families is Jewish:
Quote:
So far Mathilde has two other goddaughters who are seventh daughters: Zaineb Tebbi from Ghent, and the daughter of a Jewish family who prefer to remain anonymous.
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  #25  
Old 10-14-2020, 04:57 PM
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I'm... really not sure how devout Queen Mathilde or the family managed to square that one, but there are still no godparents in Judaism. Perhaps it's some sort of purely honorary recognition, but I'm not surprised that family is anonymous. Calling it a godparent is a few religious laws getting broken by all sides.
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  #26  
Old 10-14-2020, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Judaism doesn't have godparents, though, so it's not applicable to this discussion.
If you read my three-year old post again you'll see that it was written as a comment about Belgium's birth rate not about Judaism.
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  #27  
Old 10-14-2020, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
If you read my three-year old post again you'll see that it was written as a comment about Belgium's birth rate not about Judaism.
I read the age of the post and still thought it was applicable to point out Jewish kids would not be eligible for this, before Queen Mathilde apparently proved me wrong.
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  #28  
Old 10-14-2020, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I'm... really not sure how devout Queen Mathilde or the family managed to square that one, but there are still no godparents in Judaism. Perhaps it's some sort of purely honorary recognition, but I'm not surprised that family is anonymous. Calling it a godparent is a few religious laws getting broken by all sides.
I do think it is by both parties considered a 'honorary recognition'. Even Mathilde's own youngest daughter has a non-Catholic (crown princess Victoria) as 'godparent' - although 'sponsor' would be a more correct term as they needed an (additional) Roman Catholic godmother to fulfill the religious position.
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  #29  
Old 10-14-2020, 05:26 PM
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Trying to figure this one out for myself:

"The godparent’s function is intrinsically Christian, and as a result, for many Jews, the idea of designating godparents seems very un-Jewish[...]Officially in Judaism we do not have godparents–it is not a Jewish tradition. Jewish families may appoint them if they wish, but there are no attending religious obligations or responsibilities. It is simply an honorary title. Families can appoint as many as they want or none at all.”

So, yes, it's a name without any intrinsic religious stuff implied in this case. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that the BRF have links with Belgian children of other faiths — very, very far from it — but saying "godparent/godchild" is... odd.
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  #30  
Old 10-14-2020, 06:44 PM
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Given that it is reported that the children do receive a present from the queen (through some government official) but will only meet her as a teenager, the queen clearly doesn't show up at any kind of religious event.

One of my non-religious co-workers named the 'godparents' on the birth announcement (which I didn't expect as it is quite unusual imho), which indicates that the term is indeed used more broadly than in the original sense of someone supporting the child in it's religious upbringing which seems to be primarily practiced in the Roman Catholic and Anglican tradition (not sure about the Lutheran - it isn't normally part of the Calvinistic tradition - nonetheless, the Dutch king's daughters all have godparents).
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  #31  
Old 10-14-2020, 08:09 PM
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Perhaps "godparents" is being used more broadly elsewhere, but the Belgian monarchy is Roman Catholic and quite conservative. (I think I would have expected this of Queen Elisabeth. And nobody else.)

Wouldn't the fact the Dutch princesses have a Catholic mother have something to do with their godparents?
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  #32  
Old 10-15-2020, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I'm... really not sure how devout Queen Mathilde or the family managed to square that one, but there are still no godparents in Judaism. Perhaps it's some sort of purely honorary recognition, but I'm not surprised that family is anonymous. Calling it a godparent is a few religious laws getting broken by all sides.
I recall that the family of Zaineb Tebbi was Muslim (and I think there have been other Muslim seventh sons/daughters who became royal godchildren, although I haven't checked), so it is not the first time this tradition has been used as a non-religious honor.

What happened when a seventh daughter was born at a time when there was no queen of the Belgians, most recently between 1951 and 1960?
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  #33  
Old 10-15-2020, 07:27 AM
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A piece of trivia which I found interesting.
Godfathers and godmothers

The King and the Queen are traditionally godfather or godmother to any child born as the seventh son or daughter in a row. This royal favour is not granted automatically. Children from a non-Belgian family that has been resident in Belgium for a long time are also eligible. Baudouin had 679 godchildren, and Fabiola 260. The godchildren often bore the name of their godparent. About 70 godchildren still meet regularly and so there have been cases of a Baudouin marrying a Fabiola.
What was the cause of the ratio of seventh-son godsons to seventh-daughter goddaughters being so extremely skewed?
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  #34  
Old 10-15-2020, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
A piece of trivia which I found interesting.
Godfathers and godmothers

The King and the Queen are traditionally godfather or godmother to any child born as the seventh son or daughter in a row. This royal favour is not granted automatically. Children from a non-Belgian family that has been resident in Belgium for a long time are also eligible. Baudouin had 679 godchildren, and Fabiola 260. The godchildren often bore the name of their godparent. About 70 godchildren still meet regularly and so there have been cases of a Baudouin marrying a Fabiola.
What was the cause of the ratio of seventh-son godsons to seventh-daughter goddaughters being so extremely skewed?
Are these figures just the 7th son etc godchilldren? Or their overall numbers?
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  #35  
Old 10-15-2020, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Are these figures just the 7th son etc godchilldren? Or their overall numbers?
Given the context, I would think the former. Besides, it is not very likely that King Baudouin would have had several hundred godchildren on the basis of personal relationships alone.
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  #36  
Old 10-15-2020, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
A piece of trivia which I found interesting.
Godfathers and godmothers

The King and the Queen are traditionally godfather or godmother to any child born as the seventh son or daughter in a row. This royal favour is not granted automatically. Children from a non-Belgian family that has been resident in Belgium for a long time are also eligible. Baudouin had 679 godchildren, and Fabiola 260. The godchildren often bore the name of their godparent. About 70 godchildren still meet regularly and so there have been cases of a Baudouin marrying a Fabiola.
What was the cause of the ratio of seventh-son godsons to seventh-daughter goddaughters being so extremely skewed?
That is the most obscure royal trivia that I have ever heard. Oddly according to the King James how to find witches handbook - the seventh child is blessed by God. Then again in that age - if you had seven children someone had to bless you. But also that made you doubly attractive to the influence of the devil.
Terry Pratchet also had the seventh son of the seventh son as the origins of wizards.
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  #37  
Old 11-27-2020, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
What happened when a seventh daughter was born at a time when there was no queen of the Belgians, most recently between 1951 and 1960?
I'd like to know this. As I'd like to know what will happen with 7th sons when Princess Elisabeth becomes Queen, meaning for the first time in the country's history there will be no King of the Belgians.
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  #38  
Old 11-27-2020, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by SirKnight1399 View Post
I'd like to know this. As I'd like to know what will happen with 7th sons when Princess Elisabeth becomes Queen, meaning for the first time in the country's history there will be no King of the Belgians.
Wouldn't her husband be a perfect godfather just like the king's wife is currently godmother to the 7th daughter?
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  #39  
Old 11-27-2020, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SirKnight1399 View Post
I'd like to know this. As I'd like to know what will happen with 7th sons when Princess Elisabeth becomes Queen, meaning for the first time in the country's history there will be no King of the Belgians.
It's an interesting thought. Maybe Prince Gabriel will be called into service, if they prefer a born royal with no chance of divorce?
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  #40  
Old 11-28-2020, 12:43 AM
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I would think the Queen's husband, no matter his title, more likely.

It's the honor to have 'the monarch or consort'. Having the prince consort would be a far higher honor then having the queen's younger brother.

A born royal doesnt seem a concern. Queen consorts have been serving as godmother. I don't know why they would be any more concerned Elisabeth would get divorced and her husband no longer be prince consort.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I recall that the family of Zaineb Tebbi was Muslim (and I think there have been other Muslim seventh sons/daughters who became royal godchildren, although I haven't checked), so it is not the first time this tradition has been used as a non-religious honor.

What happened when a seventh daughter was born at a time when there was no queen of the Belgians, most recently between 1951 and 1960?
There was a dowager queen at the time. Possibly Queen Elisabeth would have served as godmother? Elisabeth died in 1965.
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