25th Anniversary of King Baudouin's Death - 2018

[eya]

On 8 September , the Belgium Royal Family will attend a memorial service on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the death of King Baudouin.

"Their Majesties the King and the Queen, Their Royal Highnesses the Grand Duke and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg and the Members of the Royal Family (*) attend the Mass on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the death His Majesty King Baudouin. This celebration, organized by the Archdiocese of Mechelen-Brussels, will be celebrated by Cardinal De Kesel in the Church of Our Lady of Laeken."


In the list so far not the names of King Albert, Queen Paola and Princess Claire:

"(*) La Princesse Astrid et le Prince Lorenz, Le Prince Laurent, Le Prince Amedeo et la Princesse Elisabetta, La Princesse Maria Laura, Le Prince Louis, Le Prince Nikolaus et la Princesse Margaretha, La Princesse Marie-Astrid, La Princesse Maria-Anunciata, Le Prince Josef-Emmanuel, Le Prince Guillaume et la Princesse Sibilla, Le Prince Paul-Louis, Le Prince Léopold, La Princesse Charlotte, La Comtesse Louis-Arnold de Looz-Corswarem, L'Archiduc et l'Archiduchesse Charles-Christian et Marie Astrid, La Princesse Léa et Mr Renaud Bichara, La Princesse Maria-Teresa de Bourbon, Le Comte et la Comtesse Jean-Charles Ullens de Schooten Whettnall"

https://www.monarchie.be/fr/agenda/...me-anniversaire-du-deces-de-sa-majeste-le-roi

 

[Marengo]

Countess Louis-Arnold of Looz-Corswarem was born as Maria Cristina Ruíz de Ojeda y Silva and is the grand daughter of Queen Fabiola's sisters Ana Maria, who married the 18th duke of Lecera.

Do we know who is meant by Pss Maria-Teresa de Bourbon? The aunt of the duke of Parma?

 

[Stefan]

Countess Louis-Arnold of Looz-Corswarem was born as Maria Cristina Ruíz de Ojeda y Silva and is the grand daughter of Queen Fabiola's sisters Ana Maria, who married the 18th duke of Lecera.

Do we know who is meant by Pss Maria-Teresa de Bourbon? The aunt of the duke of Parma?

They have also listed Pricness Marie Astrid and Archduchess marie Astrid as attendign,. Will be interesting to see how she attends twice.

 

[Marengo]

Perhaps they meant Pss Marie-Astrid of Liechtenstein?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

On 8 September , the Belgium Royal Family will attend a memorial service on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the death of King Baudouin.

"Their Majesties the King and the Queen, Their Royal Highnesses the Grand Duke and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg and the Members of the Royal Family (*) attend the Mass on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the death His Majesty King Baudouin. This celebration, organized by the Archdiocese of Mechelen-Brussels, will be celebrated by Cardinal De Kesel in the Church of Our Lady of Laeken."


In the list so far not the names of King Albert, Queen Paola and Princess Claire:

"(*) La Princesse Astrid et le Prince Lorenz, Le Prince Laurent, Le Prince Amedeo et la Princesse Elisabetta, La Princesse Maria Laura, Le Prince Louis, Le Prince Nikolaus et la Princesse Margaretha, La Princesse Marie-Astrid, La Princesse Maria-Anunciata, Le Prince Josef-Emmanuel, Le Prince Guillaume et la Princesse Sibilla, Le Prince Paul-Louis, Le Prince Léopold, La Princesse Charlotte, La Comtesse Louis-Arnold de Looz-Corswarem, L'Archiduc et l'Archiduchesse Charles-Christian et Marie Astrid, La Princesse Léa et Mr Renaud Bichara, La Princesse Maria-Teresa de Bourbon, Le Comte et la Comtesse Jean-Charles Ullens de Schooten Whettnall"

https://www.monarchie.be/fr/agenda/...me-anniversaire-du-deces-de-sa-majeste-le-roi

It is excellent that so many members of the extended Royal Family are expected to attend, albeit I hope that King Albert and Queen Paola, Princess Claire, and the rest of the grandchildren will be eventual additions to the calendar.

As an aside, according to the rules used in 2013, the Royal Family was defined as "all the descendants of Leopold III and their lawful spouses". So, it is an interesting surprise for the Court to refer to relatives of spouses (who are not descendants of Leopold III) as "Members of the Royal Family".

 

[An Ard Ri]

Any one else notice that Prince Amedeo's wife was noted as 'Princesse Elisabetta' something that we were debating in the Belgian titles thread for many years

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Any one else notice that Prince Amedeo's wife was noted as 'Princesse Elisabetta' something that we were debating in the Belgian titles thread for many years

The Court also noted her as "Princess Elisabetta" without "of Belgium" for her birthday and Christmas cards and the card for her first wedding anniversary.

koninklijkepost.punt.nl

The Court used "Princess Amedeo of Belgium" for the confirmation of her pregnancy, the announcement that she had given birth, and the announcement of her daughter's name, and for her second wedding anniversary.

https://www.facebook.com/BeMonarchie/posts/1684077428522557

https://www.facebook.com/PlaceRoyal...182161.301606.313749967160/10153355812262161/

https://twitter.com/x/status/733664995834245120

So, it seems that she is "Princess Amedeo of Belgium" in situations in which she is styled as a Princess of Belgium (as she is not a Princess of Belgium in her own right), however, she is styled "Princess Elisabetta" in situations in which she is styled as a Princess but not a Princess of Belgium.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Belgian court seem to be just as confused as ourselves regarding Belgian RF styles and titles of address.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Any one else notice that Prince Amedeo's wife was noted as 'Princesse Elisabetta' something that we were debating in the Belgian titles thread for many years

The Court also noted her as "Princess Elisabetta" without "of Belgium" for her birthday and Christmas cards and the card for her first wedding anniversary.

koninklijkepost.punt.nl

The Court used "Princess Amedeo of Belgium" for the confirmation of her pregnancy, the announcement that she had given birth, and the announcement of her daughter's name, and for her second wedding anniversary.

https://www.facebook.com/BeMonarchie/posts/1684077428522557

https://www.facebook.com/PlaceRoyal...182161.301606.313749967160/10153355812262161/

https://twitter.com/x/status/733664995834245120

So, it seems that she is "Princess Amedeo of Belgium" in situations in which she is styled as a Princess of Belgium (as she is not a Princess of Belgium in her own right), however, she is styled "Princess Elisabetta" in situations in which she is styled as a Princess but not a Princess of Belgium.

The Belgian court seem to be just as confused as ourselves regarding Belgian RF styles and titles of address.

They would certainly improve from following the Dutch court's example in regard to clear communication.

Still, if we assume that the King and Court see Elisabetta as a princess but not a princess of Belgium (which is the confirmed status of her daughter), then their use of titles for her seems reasonable:

Every time she was called Princess without designation (I assume this is her own title), she has been referred to by her own first name (Princess Elisabetta).
Every time she was called Princess of Belgium (I assume this is sharing her husband's title), she was referred to by her husband's first name (Princess Amedeo of Belgium).

At least, this is the theory which for me makes the most sense out of the information provided by the court.

On 8 September , the Belgium Royal Family will attend a memorial service on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the death of King Baudouin.

"Their Majesties the King and the Queen, Their Royal Highnesses the Grand Duke and the Grand Duchess of Luxembourg and the Members of the Royal Family (*) attend the Mass on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the death His Majesty King Baudouin. This celebration, organized by the Archdiocese of Mechelen-Brussels, will be celebrated by Cardinal De Kesel in the Church of Our Lady of Laeken."


In the list so far not the names of King Albert, Queen Paola and Princess Claire:

"(*) La Princesse Astrid et le Prince Lorenz, Le Prince Laurent, Le Prince Amedeo et la Princesse Elisabetta, La Princesse Maria Laura, Le Prince Louis, Le Prince Nikolaus et la Princesse Margaretha, La Princesse Marie-Astrid, La Princesse Maria-Anunciata, Le Prince Josef-Emmanuel, Le Prince Guillaume et la Princesse Sibilla, Le Prince Paul-Louis, Le Prince Léopold, La Princesse Charlotte, La Comtesse Louis-Arnold de Looz-Corswarem, L'Archiduc et l'Archiduchesse Charles-Christian et Marie Astrid, La Princesse Léa et Mr Renaud Bichara, La Princesse Maria-Teresa de Bourbon, Le Comte et la Comtesse Jean-Charles Ullens de Schooten Whettnall"

https://www.monarchie.be/fr/agenda/...me-anniversaire-du-deces-de-sa-majeste-le-roi

Het Nieuwsblad writes that, according to its source, King Albert and Queen Paola will not be present at the memorial mass for the sake of not disturbing their vacation abroad. I wonder whether their source is correct.

 

[Hannelore]

Not literally for the sake of not disturbing their vacations. They were invited but declined. De facto they don't live in Belgium anymore, spending 80% of the year in Italy, and travelling most of the other 20%. Now and then they still use their Belvédère residence in Laeken.

It seems they took the decision to spend the rest of their lives outside of the public light. Wether this is wise, I don't know, but I certainly don't expect to see them anymore apart from the weddings of their grandchildren, funerals or paparazzi shots.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Not literally for the sake of not disturbing their vacations. They were invited but declined. De facto they don't live in Belgium anymore, spending 80% of the year in Italy, and travelling most of the other 20%. Now and then they still use their Belvédère residence in Laeken.

It seems they took the decision to spend the rest of their lives outside of the public light. Wether this is wise, I don't know, but I certainly don't expect to see them anymore apart from the weddings of their grandchildren, funerals or paparazzi shots.

They are retired. Maybe King Albert will remember his brother in his own private way. That is his good right.

 

[Stefan]

They are retired. Maybe King Albert will remember his brother in his own private way. That is his good right.

Of course that is his good right. But it doesn't show them in the best light when plenty of other Family members from abroad can attend but the only still livinig sibling doesn't attend.
And they have in the years since their abdication usually attended the King's Feast and also some other small Events with their Patronages in Belgium. So it is not that they have complety retired.

 

[leidi]

They never interrumpt their "holidays" (even if they are on holiday all year long), not when their youngest son was in the ICU, not when there's a big anniversary on his brother's untimely death.

Seems like their priorities are to take as much sun as possible and avoid "pesky" familiar obligations.

Some people never change and they have never been dutiful, not even as King and Queen, their priorities have always been their own lives, not family or the royal house.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

They never interrumpt their "holidays" (even if they are on holiday all year long), not when their youngest son was in the ICU, not when there's a big anniversary on his brother's untimely death.

Seems like their priorities are to take as much sun as possible and avoid "pesky" familiar obligations.

Some people never change and they have never been dutiful, not even as King and Queen, their priorities have always been their own lives, not family or the royal house.

I think that is not true. Under King Albert Belgium has been rocking on its foundations with all what came to the surface with Dutroux, the King has faced the longest and most difficult formation of a new Government ever, it saw the rise of separatist parties and a further crumbling of the once so strong unitary state paired with the worldwide crisis. As often as I have seen the fleet of ministerial cars ride to Laeken, so seldom are these images now. It was an eventful and active kingship. Already in 2009 King Albert was the eldest Belgian King ever and all that with a brittle state of health.

His son King Philippe, alike his neighour King Willem-Alexander seems to have abandoned the more political kingship of Albert and Beatrix and has chosen for a more social cohesive role. Less inside the palace with dignitaries. More outside the palace with social projects. But that Albert II was lazy is nonsense. His son never had the workload of his father, simply because the ongoing state reforms have crumbled the national state to the minimum, in advantage of the devolved parts in which there is no role for the King whatsoever.

 

[JR76]

Le Comte et la Comtesse Jean-Charles Ullens de Schooten Whettnall"

https://www.monarchie.be/fr/agenda/...me-anniversaire-du-deces-de-sa-majeste-le-roi

This would be the son of Countess Madeleine Bernadotte, the niece of Queen Astrid. Are her children close to their royal cousins?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

This would be the son of Countess Madeleine Bernadotte, the niece of Queen Astrid. Are her children close to their royal cousins?

I assume so. The Ullens de Schooten family are often present at familial gatherings.

 

[JR76]

I assume so. The Ullens de Schooten family are often present at familial gatherings.

Thanks! I've seen them quite a lot in Oslo. I don't think anyone can forget #nipplegate

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

God as guide, fortune as partner, on the gate to Kasteel Schooten:

https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20180524_03527925/poort-kasteel-van-schoten-straalt-weer-als-vanouds

 

[An Ard Ri]

Its a pity that King Albert and Queen Paula won't be there for the Memorial Mass.

 

[Somebody]

Jet Nieuwsblad writes that, according to its source, King Albert and Queen Paola will not be present at the memorial mass for the sake of not disturbing their vacation abroad. I wonder whether their source is correct.

Not unexpected but still a clear sign of not having your prioriyies straight. If your children, grandchildren, and several nieces and nephews and their children make it a priority to honour your brother, is it really too much to ask to attend as well?

 

[Mbruno]

Of course that is his good right. But it doesn't show them in the best light when plenty of other Family members from abroad can attend but the only still livinig sibling doesn't attend.
And they have in the years since their abdication usually attended the King's Feast and also some other small Events with their Patronages in Belgium. So it is not that they have complety retired.

On top of that, he is still funded by the Belgian taxpayers. I guess one could interpret King Albert's funding as a "pension", which cares no obligation with it, but many people would still expect him to attend a few events, especially in connection with the memory of his very popular deceased brother. I know King Albert's health is said to be frail, but IMHO it's bad PR for him not to attend .

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Not unexpected but still a clear sign of not having your prioriyies straight. If your children, grandchildren, and several nieces and nephews and their children make it a priority to honour your brother, is it really too much to ask to attend as well?

It was slightly unexpected for me because my understanding is that the brothers had an important, reciprocally supportive relationship when Albert was serving as heir to Baudouin.


Along with the change (?) to the definition of the Royal Family given in 2013, the order of precedence is interesting. I would have expected the Belgian court to list "Marie Astrid and Charles-Christian" and "Margaretha and Nikolaus" rather than the reversed order (as Marie-Astrid and Margaretha are descendants of Leopold III while their husbands are not), and to give Marie-Astrid precedence over her younger siblings Margaretha and Guillaume. It also seems irregular for Queen Fabiola's great-niece to be given precedence over both Marie-Astrid and Léa.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The 25th death anniversary is considered to be one of the big milestone ones. I am rather surprised that King Albert, who seems to revere the memory of his much loved and admired older brother, refuses to interrupt his holiday.

But I agree with Duc et Pair that during the years of his reign King Albert II was very much a workhorse.

 

[Princess B]

I was at the palace in August and clicked a picture of this. Hoping this is the right place to post

 

[Somebody]

It was slightly unexpected for me because my understanding is that the brothers had an important, reciprocally supportive relationship when Albert was serving as heir to Baudouin.

My non-surprise isn't based on the relationship between the brothers but on Albert and Paola's very limited appearances in general and them seemingly prioritizing almost anything else over family obligations.

Along with the change (?) to the definition of the Royal Family given in 2013, the order of precedence is interesting. I would have expected the Belgian court to list "Marie Astrid and Charles-Christian" and "Margaretha and Nikolaus" rather than the reversed order (as Marie-Astrid and Margaretha are descendants of Leopold III while their husbands are not), and to give Marie-Astrid precedence over her younger siblings Margaretha and Guillaume. It also seems irregular for Queen Fabiola's great-niece to be given precedence over both Marie-Astrid and Léa.

Indeed, I coulfn't make sense of the order either. Is anyone of them maybe a godchild of king Baudouin or queen Fabiola that might explain their illogical position?

 

[leidi]

I think that is not true. Under King Albert Belgium has been rocking on its foundations with all what came to the surface with Dutroux, the King has faced the longest and most difficult formation of a new Government ever, it saw the rise of separatist parties and a further crumbling of the once so strong unitary state paired with the worldwide crisis. As often as I have seen the fleet of ministerial cars ride to Laeken, so seldom are these images now. It was an eventful and active kingship. Already in 2009 King Albert was the eldest Belgian King ever and all that with a brittle state of health.

His son King Philippe, alike his neighour King Willem-Alexander seems to have abandoned the more political kingship of Albert and Beatrix and has chosen for a more social cohesive role. Less inside the palace with dignitaries. More outside the palace with social projects. But that Albert II was lazy is nonsense. His son never had the workload of his father, simply because the ongoing state reforms have crumbled the national state to the minimum, in advantage of the devolved parts in which there is no role for the King whatsoever.

Albert did what he had to but he has never been dutiful, he would have gladly passed it along if Philippe was married at the time Baudouin died, he has always cared more about his own life and his stormy marriage to Paola than anything else: family, country, etc.

He's on a state of permanent holiday yet he can't take ONE day to visit his son in the ICU or to go to the mass for his supposedly beloved brother.

That's selfish.

Lazy? No and the kingship took his toll on him because he wasn't used to work that hard.
Dutiful as his brother and son were/are? No.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

On top of that, he is still funded by the Belgian taxpayers. I guess one could interpret King Albert's funding as a "pension", which cares no obligation with it, but many people would still expect him to attend a few events, especially in connection with the memory of his very popular deceased brother. I know King Albert's health is said to be frail, but IMHO it's bad PR for him not to attend .

King Albert feels betrayed by the Belgian Government. In contrary to what seems to have been promised, the King only receives some 900.000 Euro a year for him and his spouse. That seems a lot indeed, but it was a decrease from roughly 12 million to 900.000 Euro which is undoubtedly a blow. Apparently something similar to Princess Beatrix was in mind (she enjoys 1,6 million Euro plus staff, an office, a all-inclusive pied-à-terre in The Hague, security, transportation, royal flight, royal yacht et al). King Albert has to use the 900.000 Euro to pay for the use of the Château du Belvédère (think of the energy bill alone) the staff, the transportation, etc. It will still be enough money in normal eyes, but the King had to sack loyal staff, sell properties and end the use of residences like the Château de Fenffe because of the tightened budget.

According magazines and newspapers King Albert apparently feels betrayed since he has abdicated in favour of his son, on base of agreements with the then Prime Minister, M Elio di Rupo. After the abdication M Di Rupo more or less came to the former King: "I am sorry, I can not guide our agreement through the Cabinet and Parliament". The new King Philippe more or less kept himself out of this, reportedly to the frustration of his father. Reportedly King Albert is especially worried about a widowed Queen Paola. What will happen with her? Will she - alike Princess Liliane- be forced to sell properties to make ends meet? Since King Albert has experienced how "reliable" promises are, even by a Prime Minister, out of his own mouth to his own King, he seems not to have confidence that Queen Paola will be left behind in circumstances befitting her rank and status.

So the King - as much as possible - "sends his cat" to use a Flemish verb, to show his discontent. That is the theory which has been described in the current affairs magazine Knack, (despite the name a major and serious magazine).

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Albert did what he had to but he has never been dutiful, he would have gladly passed it along if Philippe was married at the time Baudouin died, he has always cared more about his own life and his stormy marriage to Paola than anything else: family, country, etc.

He's on a state of permanent holiday yet he can't take ONE day to visit his son in the ICU or to go to the mass for his supposedly beloved brother.

That's selfish.

Lazy? No and the kingship took his toll on him because he wasn't used to work that hard.
Dutiful as his brother and son were/are? No.

It is a pity that apparently in the United Arab Emirates King Albert II is seen as a lazy King. In my optics the former King had a much bigger workload, especially constitutional, political and institutional, than the current King. Not that it is Philippe's fault: due to the never-ending State Reforms in Belgium at the cost of the national state in favour of the devolved regions, the current King simply has a smaller role.

80% of the executive powers is in hands of the devolved regions. King Philippe has zero role in these. Not in the formation of the regional Governments, not in appointing regional authorities, not in signing regional Acts and Decrees, nothing.

When King Baudouin died, Belgium was more or less an "unionistic federal state". There were three regions (Vlaanderen, Wallonie, Brussels) with more or less limited authorities, especially on language-related affairs like primary education and culture.

Under King Albert ongoing qualified parliamentary majorities in both language blocks enforced furtherer devolutions: home affairs, health care, social security, secondary and academic education, finances, trade, infrastructure and transportation, nature and evironment, sciences, sports, welfare, foreign affairs even.

Essentially the national state of King Philippe is crumbled to the bare minimum: Justice, Police, Defense (which is in total shambles), the National Debt (which is astronomic) and Pensions. The only reason the last two has not been devolved is that Wallonia and Brussels can not stand on their own legs without the billions from Flanders to dig their financial holes.

In this constellation, the role of King Philippe is substantially different from that of his father. The last one really was a King, still. Alike Beatrix really was a Queen still, so to say. The current King, alike Willem-Alexander, keeps far away from politics and chooses social cohesion to define his kingship. Exactly alike his northern colleague but maybe that is simply the only role left to future kings anyway. Albert II lazy? Really not. Philippe has not half of his father's workload!

 

[leidi]

It is a pity that apparently in the United Arab Emirates King Albert II is seen as a lazy King. In my optics the former King had a much bigger workload, especially constitutional, political and institutional, than the current King. Not that it is Philippe's fault: due to the never-ending State Reforms in Belgium at the cost of the national state in favour of the devolved regions, the current King simply has a smaller role.

80% of the executive powers is in hands of the devolved regions. King Philippe has zero role in these. Not in the formation of the regional Governments, not in appointing regional authorities, not in signing regional Acts and Decrees, nothing.

When King Baudouin died, Belgium was more or less an "unionistic federal state". There were three regions (Vlaanderen, Wallonie, Brussels) with more or less limited authorities, especially on language-related affairs like primary education and culture.

Under King Albert ongoing qualified parliamentary majorities in both language blocks enforced furtherer devolutions: home affairs, health care, social security, secondary and academic education, finances, trade, infrastructure and transportation, nature and evironment, sciences, sports, welfare, foreign affairs even.

Essentially the national state of King Philippe is crumbled to the bare minimum: Justice, Police, Defense (which is in total shambles), the National Debt (which is astronomic) and Pensions. The only reason the last two has not been devolved is that Wallonia and Brussels can not stand on their own legs without the billions from Flanders to dig their financial holes.

In this constellation, the role of King Philippe is substantially different from that of his father. The last one really was a King, still. Alike Beatrix really was a Queen still, so to say. The current King, alike Willem-Alexander, keeps far away from politics and chooses social cohesion to define his kingship. Exactly alike his northern colleague but maybe that is simply the only role left to future kings anyway. Albert II lazy? Really not. Philippe has not half of his father's workload!

If you choose to disagree with me based on what's on my profile information, it's on you since you're hellbent on defending a man that has shown time and time again how selfish he is.

I NEVER said anything about him being lazy or about his or Philippe's workloads, I am merely pointing out Albert's character, which has always been selfish and uncaring towards everyone (except for Paola in some years of their marriage).

Paola has always been selfish as well, there's no denying that either.

That's it, the rest is something you came up with.

 

[Marengo]

And on that uplifting note we can end the discussion about the character and work ethic of King Albert II and return to the topic of this thread, which is the memorial service for the late king Baudouin.