25th Anniversary of King Baudouin's Death - 2018

[Duc_et_Pair]

Albert attended when he had to as king and he attended the general mass of all deceased members of the family after his abdication (in 2015, so that was mostly mainly about Fabiola's memory). This was the first mass specifically organized for his brother after his abdication and he decided not to attend. So, while I sincerely hope that him not attending doesn't mean that he doesn't respect his brother, apparently his regards for his brother did not trump his childish desire to do as he pleases without any regard for the message it conveys.

All in all, we don't know exactly what but something was more important to Albert and Paola than publicly honoring their brother(-in-law)'s memory 25 years after his untimely death.

In the last alinea you are out of line with the qualification childish in your first alinea.

 

[wartenberg7]

Albert attended the general remembrance mass in February, so while you don't believe i these kind of masses, Albert apparently did value them in the past but is boycotting this specific one to apparently make some kind of statement.

So if he attended in february what exactly is still your problem...?!

 

[Denville]

So if he attended in february what exactly is still your problem...?!

This is a special one remembering Baudoin 25 year later.. and he seems to be prioritising his holiday over it.. possibly because he Is in a sulk about his retirement pension.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

This is a special one remembering Baudoin 25 year later.. and he seems to be prioritising his holiday over it.. possibly because he Is in a sulk about his retirement pension.

When he possibly stated something like: "these messieurs can kiss my b*lls, they will not see me anymore. Out of the question!" Then he is actually living up to his words. More so than the messieurs of the Government who promised A but did B.

 

[Denville]

When he possibly stated something like: "these messieurs can kiss my b*lls, they will not see me anymore. Out of the question!" Then he is actually living up to his words. More so than the messieurs of the Government who promised A but did B.

so he is taking revenge against his late brother and his memory, because he is in a sulk against politicans.

 

[Somebody]

In the last alinea you are out of line with the qualification childish in your first alinea.

I cannot come up with a good reason for him not to attend, so I still think him prioritizing something over attending his brother's mass is childish but he is free to give an explanation and I might change my mind.

 

[Somebody]

So if he attended in february what exactly is still your problem...?!

I have to correct myself. He did not attend this year in February. Only in 2015.

And as Denville explains. There is a difference between attending the yearly general mass (which they don't attend each year) and a specific mass organized for his own brother for which lots of nieces and nephews and even greatnieces and nephews turn up but his only brother for some unknown reason decides not to come.

 

[Somebody]

When he possibly stated something like: "these messieurs can kiss my b*lls, they will not see me anymore. Out of the question!" Then he is actually living up to his words. More so than the messieurs of the Government who promised A but did B.

When would he have stated this? It must be fairly recent since he attended last year's king's day.

 

[Denville]

I have to correct myself. He did not attend this year in February. Only in 2015.

And as Denville explains. There is a difference between attending the yearly general mass (which they don't attend each year) and a specific mass organized for his own brother for which lots of nieces and nephews and even greatnieces and nephews turn up but his only brother for some unknown reason decides not to come.

well more ot the point surely, if he's not attending because he is annoyed with the Belgian Politicians, that seems petty. Its not like he was saying "I wotn do any more "occasional engagements" or meet with the PM, because I am annoyed about the money issue.. ". He is saying, "because I feel let down and I feel I should have more money, I wont attend a religious ritual in honour of my late brother..."

 

[Somebody]

Yes his mother Archduchess Yolande.

A very good report from RoyalArjan with many pictures from the Royals and inside the church and the Royal Crypt taken by him from yesteday's mass!

https://t.co/MqCHQzZ4xU

Thanks, Arjan is very knowledgeable, so always a pleasure to read his accounts.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Yes his mother Archduchess Yolande.

A very good report from RoyalArjan with many pictures from the Royals and inside the church and the Royal Crypt taken by him from yesteday's mass!

https://t.co/MqCHQzZ4xU

The tombs of Baudouin, Fabiola and all the others entombed in the Royal Crypt are starkly simple...but grand and elegant as well. It was very moving to see the final resting place of poor little Prince Emmanuel of Lichtenstein who lived for only a day, as well as that of Queen Astrid, the beloved mother of Baudouin, Josephine -Charlotte, and ,Albert.

Thank you eya and Arjan!?

 

[Lee-Z]

Small excerpt on the memorial service from dutch royalty show "Blauw bloed" (starts at 25 minutes, in dutch)
https://blauwbloed.eo.nl/gemist/afl...fwezige-bij-25ste-herdenking-broer-boudewijn/
Here also the question "Why did K.Albert not attend" was mentioned (or rather...that's pretty much the headline..) the invited Belgian royalty watcher Wim Dehandschutter also has no definitive reason for it, but suspects the bad blood between father and son, the former and current King is a big part of that reason...
Apparently it is not known for sure where K.Albert is on vacation, but as he is usually in Italy around this time of the year (Q.Paola's birthday is this week, and she usually celebrates that in Italy), it is assumed that the couple is in Italy

Shame that the rift in the BRF overshadows this memorial... (imo ofcourse)

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Small excerpt on the memorial service from dutch royalty show "Blauw bloed" (starts at 25 minutes, in dutch)
https://blauwbloed.eo.nl/gemist/afl...fwezige-bij-25ste-herdenking-broer-boudewijn/
Here also the question "Why did K.Albert not attend" was mentioned (or rather...that's pretty much the headline..) the invited Belgian royalty watcher Wim Dehandschutter also has no definitive reason for it, but suspects the bad blood between father and son, the former and current King is a big part of that reason...
Apparently it is not known for sure where K.Albert is on vacation, but as he is usually in Italy around this time of the year (Q.Paola's birthday is this week, and she usually celebrates that in Italy), it is assumed that the couple is in Italy

Shame that the rift in the BRF overshadows this memorial... (imo ofcourse)

Yes. He is here in Puglia. Gallipoli, Santa Maria di Leuca, Otranto, that region. By pure coincidence I am in Puglia as well and saw it mentioned in local press.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Archduchess Yolande of Austria is a great age HIH turned 95 earlier this summer.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Small excerpt on the memorial service from dutch royalty show "Blauw bloed" (starts at 25 minutes, in dutch)
https://blauwbloed.eo.nl/gemist/afl...fwezige-bij-25ste-herdenking-broer-boudewijn/
Here also the question "Why did K.Albert not attend" was mentioned (or rather...that's pretty much the headline..) the invited Belgian royalty watcher Wim Dehandschutter also has no definitive reason for it, but suspects the bad blood between father and son, the former and current King is a big part of that reason...
Apparently it is not known for sure where K.Albert is on vacation, but as he is usually in Italy around this time of the year (Q.Paola's birthday is this week, and she usually celebrates that in Italy), it is assumed that the couple is in Italy

Shame that the rift in the BRF overshadows this memorial... (imo ofcourse)

Yes I agree 100%. But the fact is that the Belgian Royal family has ALWAYS been wildly dysfunctional from their very earliest beginnings.

I think Leopold II's daughters(Stephanie and Louise) hated him and the feeling was quite mutual. Didn't he disinherit them both?

Then there were the unseemly rumors about the unusual close relationship of Baudouin and his elegant stepmother Lilian, which ended when Baudouin married Fabiola and launched an all out family feud. Baudouin, J-C and Albert were estranged from their father Leopold III
until his death.

The tangled dynamics between Albert and Paola and their offspring, particularly Laurent need no recounting in this thread.

The Belgian Royal dysfunction doesn't get as much publicity in the European press as that of Spain and Monaco for some reason...but it's just as messy!

 

[leidi]

The treatment of the former King (the government making promises which were not honoured and the new King seemingly not willing to spend energy into it) plus King Albert's fear what will happen to a widowed Queen Paola. Will she become a Liliane 2.0 having to sell items or depending on the generosity of supporters to help her out? After 40 years of public service as Prince de Liège & Heir and 20 years of public service as King of a turbulent monarchy as Belgium, Albert probably was and is very non-amused that a given word, and agreements around his abdication, were not honoured. Relationships can become bitter for less.

Come on, completely different situations and I honestly don't believe for a second that Philippe would allow his mother to be in that position (even if their relationship is inexistent, it would be shameful for a reigning monarch to be like that), Astrid would also try to help as much as possible.

She's the wife and the mother of a King, not the unloved second wife of a King whose children weren't even in the succession line.

so he is taking revenge against his late brother and his memory, because he is in a sulk against politicans.

That's Albert for you, Laurent is REALLY his father's son, both have the same type of "throwing tantrums" character.

Yes I agree 100%. But the fact is that the Belgian Royal family has ALWAYS been wildly dysfunctional from their very earliest beginning.

I think Leopold II's daughters(Stephanie and Louise) hated him and the feeling was quite mutual. Didn't he disinherit them both?

Then there were the unseemly rumors about the unusual close relationship of Baudouin and his elegant stepmother Lilian, which ended when Baudouin married Fabiola and launched an all out family feud. Baudouin, J-C and Albert were estranged from their father Leopold III
until his death.

The tangled dynamics between Albert and Paola and their offspring, particularly Laurent need no recounting in this thread.

The Belgian Royal dysfunction doesn't get as much publicity in the European press as that of Spain and Monaco for some reason...but it's just as messy!

I think (and hope) that bad blood is going the end up with the next generation, because you can say many things about Philippe, Astrid or Laurent but all three are quite devoted parents, maybe they never wanted their own children to suffer like they did during their childhood.

BTW, all three and their families ADORED Fabiola in their own personal way, still remember all the kids, from Amedeo to Gabriel crying their eyes out at her funeral, I think she was the one that basically kept the family unit "together" until she died and something broke when she did.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree that all of the children of Albert and Paola seem to be remarkable parents...given the fact that their own childhoods were not always so happy it's nothing less than astonishing in fact.

The loving and close marriage of Philippe and Mathilde along with the deep connection with their children is wonderful to see, and one can only hope that this will bode well for Elisabeth's prospects for a happy family life when she takes the throne someday.

Fingers crossed that the "curse" will end with her parents' generation.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yes I agree 100%. But the fact is that the Belgian Royal family has ALWAYS been wildly dysfunctional from their very earliest beginning.

I think Leopold II's daughters(Stephanie and Louise) hated him and the feeling was quite mutual. Didn't he disinherit them both?

King Leopold II disinherited ALL his daughters and out of rancune donated all to the State of Belgium (the Donation Royale):
- Louise Prinzessin von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha born Princesse de Belgique
- Stéphanie Gräfin von Nagy-Lónya und Vásáros-Namény, formerly Crown Princess of Austria and Hungary, Archduchess of Austria born Princesse de Belgique
- Clémentine Bonaparte, Princesse Napoléon born Princesse de Belgique

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Come on, completely different situations and I honestly don't believe for a second that Philippe would allow his mother to be in that position (even if their relationship is inexistent, it would be shameful for a reigning monarch to be like that), Astrid would also try to help as much as possible.[....]

That is your assumption. Léopold III, Prince Charles (the Regent between 1944 and 1950), Princess Liliane, all were in financial narrow shoes. The State of Belgium simply forgot them and as you maybe know, is also not the most generous to the actual monarch in comparison with other monarchies. I would not take it for granted that Paola will not be in narrow shoes. Her son Laurent is not in state to help her. Most likely her daughter Astrid also not because she and Lorenz and their big family have an expensive lifestyle, remains King Philippe who sees himself controlled from all sides and has to run a big family and a royal court with a relatively small budget.

 

[leidi]

That is your assumption. Léopold III, Prince Charles (the Regent between 1944 and 1950), Princess Liliane, all were in financial narrow shoes. The State of Belgium simply forgot them and as you maybe know, is also not the most generous to the actual monarch in comparison with other monarchies. I would not take it for granted that Paola will not be in narrow shoes. Her son Laurent is not in state to help her. Most likely her daughter Astrid also not because she and Lorenz and their big family have an expensive lifestyle, remains King Philippe who sees himself controlled from all sides and has to run a big family and a royal court with a relatively small budget.

If Albert dies before Paola, she can move back to Belgium and stay at the complex in Laeken, she doesn't have to pay rent, doesn't have young children to send to school, doesn't have to pay for commodities, security, service or anything of the sort.
Hell, even her holidays would be paid for, Astrid or Claire would take her with them.
She doesn't even have to see the rest of the family if she doesn't want to.
And whatever Albert got as apanage, will go to her.
What kind of narrow shoes will she find herself into?
Will she be living on the streets, having to beg for food?
Come on...

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

If Albert dies before Paola, she can move back to Belgium and stay at the complex in Laeken, she doesn't have to pay rent, doesn't have young children to send to school, doesn't have to pay for commodities, security, service or anything of the sort.
Hell, even her holidays would be paid for, Astrid or Claire would take her with them.
She doesn't even have to see the rest of the family if she doesn't want to.
And whatever Albert got as apanage, will go to her.
What kind of narrow shoes will she find herself into?
Will she be living on the streets, having to beg for food?
Come on...

The Donation Royale provides the Château du Belvédère to the former royal couple and already now the couple is struggling to pay the bills for staffing, energy, utilities and maintenance from the 923.000 (pre-taxation) per year which will result in something between 500.000 and 600.000 netto a year. The former King has requested the Donation Royale (the vehicle which administers Leopold II's gift to the State) to help him to make ends meet. Reportedly the Donation Royale was willing to help the King but was - on its turn- in narrow financial shoes and could not help King Albert.

It is not true that the holidays, services, commodities, transportation, fuel, staffing, etc. are paid for. All of this has to be paid out of the annual dotation. Only the personal security is free, as happens to any Belgian, royal or not royal, who needs protection based on a risk analysis.

When King Albert dies and the dotation of Queen Paola is slashed to the amount of Astrid and Laurent (300.000 euro pre-taxation) then it will be difficult for the old Queen to maintain the Château du Belvédère. When Princess Liliane left Argenteuil, the mansion was in shocking state as in all these years there was not a centime to invest in the maintenance.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Albert and Paola sail around the Med on their private yacht for their summer holidays. How many couples in "tight financial shoes" do that...Royal or otherwise?

Certainly Paola will find herself in straightened circumstances in the sad event that she loses her husband, as do many elderly widows.

Perhaps she can sell her yacht, as Queen Fabiola did after the death of Baudouin?

 

[Marengo]

Queen Fabiola received 1.594.000 euros per year (index 2009), which is over 50% more than Albert and Paola combined and roughly 5 times more than what Paola will receive. Only in the last year of her life her dotation was slashed to 920.000 euros by premier Elio di Rupo. During her widowhood she received a total of approx. 28 million euros from the state.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I see. ..so now that she has passed away can not some of those funds be used to assist Albert and Paola?

Forgive my ignorance..I am not at all sure how this works!

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Albert and Paola sail around the Med on their private yacht for their summer holidays. How many couples in "tight financial shoes" do that...Royal or otherwise?

Certainly Paola will find herself in straightened circumstances in the sad event that she loses her husband, as do many elderly widows.

Perhaps she can sell her yacht, as Queen Fabiola did after the death of Baudouin?

Sailing around on a yacht can be cheaper than living at the "free" Château and Parc du Belvédère, which simply eats away a fortune.

I see. ..so now that she has passed away can not some of those funds be used to assist Albert and Paola?

Forgive my ignorance..I am not at all sure how this works!

Queen Fabiola initially set up foundations in Belgium and in Spain to distribute her wealth. While it was her money, and her inheritance from her Spanish family and from her late husband, still the ladies and gentlemen politicians and press were not far away to blame her for tax avoiding etc. In the end Fabiola left her whole estate to a charity. Period. So unless there were pre-distributions by life, neither the Coburgs nor the Mora y Aragóns got a part from Fabiola's wealth.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

If the situation is reversed and Queen Paola pre-deceases her husband, will his dotation be slashed?

 

[wartenberg7]

so he is taking revenge against his late brother and his memory, because he is in a sulk against politicans.

Revenge against a dead person?! That´s pathetic. Do you really believe B. sits in heaven weeping about his younger brother´s non-attendance of this service...?! Even a devout, deeply religious person believing in afterlife cannot positively claim that a dead relative knows, is aware of, what´s going on on earth.


We don´t know if Albert and Paola might have remembered B. privatly, going into a small church, lighting a candle somewhere (which, in my opinion, has a lot more substance and honesty other than taking part in a a mass as a public display only to satisfy public opinion)?!

 

[maria-olivia]

The day Queen Fabiola passed away means the end of a Royal Family of Belgium.

I attend the 20th Anniversary of King 's Baudouin Death at the Cathedral, 3 Queens of the Belgians attended.

 

[Skippy]

Revenge against a dead person?! That´s pathetic. Do you really believe B. sits in heaven weeping about his younger brother´s non-attendance of this service...?! Even a devout, deeply religious person believing in afterlife cannot positively claim that a dead relative knows, is aware of, what´s going on on earth.


We don´t know if Albert and Paola might have remembered B. privatly, going into a small church, lighting a candle somewhere (which, in my opinion, has a lot more substance and honesty other than taking part in a a mass as a public display only to satisfy public opinion)?!

First bolded part: In general - you would be amazed how much people's grievances carry on after death.
Second bolded part: That's your opinion, not a fact. You simply don't believe in it, which is your right.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The day Queen Fabiola passed away means the end of a Royal Family of Belgium.

I attend the 20th Anniversary of King 's Baudouin Death at the Cathedral, 3 Queens of the Belgians attended.

That surely cannot be the opinion of most Belgians?!

Because from the point of view of a foreigner like myself, the current King and Queen and their beautiful well brought up children are a Royal Family to be proud of.