Role and Title for Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and Family

[SnowBirds]

I do understand the word ^Permanent^ that she put down, yet she changed her mind, we all change our minds on this at some points in our lives, I do and on things more important in my life then just where to live, so let it be, she is a grown woman, married with 2 babies, her husband works in his own business so really she can do as she pleases. I get the impression here that some what her to jump through hoops to please them, not going to happen. Not one person on this earth is entitled to know everything about her or her husband or their lives, NoBody. We are not her keepers or her judge (well some judge her very harshly for they feel they need to know everything), let the young lady live her life and go live yours (and not through her), I think she is doing fine. As for her father, we don't personally know what he has said or done or anything, this is all guess work.

 

[Lady Nimue]

Good post. Agree: 'she can do as she pleases.' Yep.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

What is Prince Nicolas's official surname: Bernadotte, O'Neill, Bernadotte-O'Neill, or O'Neill-Bernadotte?

 

[LadyFinn]

What is Prince Nicolas's official surname: Bernadotte, O'Neill, Bernadotte-O'Neill, or O'Neill-Bernadotte?

The members of the royal family have no official surname. This said the director of the press department, Margareta Thorgren, on May 2014 when the press found out that Madeleine and Chris had applied for a diplomatic passport for Leonore and written to it that her surname was Bernadotte O'Neill. According to the swedish name law that was wrong. Bernadotte would have been the middle name and O'Neill the surname. According to the name law people in Sweden can have only one surname.
Margareta Thorgren:
- The royals are registered without a surname, so is Princess Leonore. To minimize problems at passport controls, Princess Madeleine and Chris chose to indicate two surnames to Princess Leonore's passport
So Leonore is not named thus Bernadotte as middle name and O'Neill as surname?
- No, the royals only have first names. This was a practical issue when traveling. Princess Leonore is registered just like the other royals. She wears no last name.
Maddes namnstrul inför prinsessdopet _ Nyheter _ Expressen

Daniel is an exception, he is registered as Olof Daniel Westling Bernadotte, Bernadotte as his surname.

 

[Queen Claude]

Wikipedia lists Leonore and Nicolas's last name as Bernadotte. Footnotes are cited, for Leonore the source is Skatteverket / public records but it does not link to an actual document or article. For Nicholas the reported source is his birth certificate and there is a link to a Swedish language document that was posted on Tumblr.

 

[Marty91charmed]

Yeah, I thought that it had already been confirmed that both Leonore and Nicolas had Bernadotte as surname...?

 

[Biri]

The great-great-great-great-grandpa of the King was named Jean Baptiste (given name) Bernadotte (surname).

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Yeah, I thought that it had already been confirmed that both Leonore and Nicolas had Bernadotte as surname...?

Yes, Wikipedia may have listed Nicolas's surname as Bernadotte, but Christopher's surname is O'Neill, not Bernadotte. In the business world, there are some companies and contracts where the surname in the successive male generation (grandfather, father, son) must be exactly the same, thus O'Neill.

 

[Marty91charmed]

Yes, Wikipedia may have listed Nicolas's surname as Bernadotte, but Christopher's surname is O'Neill, not Bernadotte. In the business world, there are some companies and contracts where the surname in the successive male generation (grandfather, father, son) must be exactly the same, thus O'Neill.

I think that for practical reasons,all the descendants of any royal family should take the paternal surname...

 

[Daffodil]

How is it practical for the name of the royal house to change every time a queen regnant's child succeeds to the throne? The practical thing to do is for the royal house's name to pass down to all the heirs, whether their father or mother happens to be the royal. That's what the Swedish royal family is doing.

 

[Mbruno]

How is it practical for the name of the royal house to change every time a queen regnant's child succeeds to the throne? The practical thing to do is for the royal house's name to pass down to all the heirs, whether their father or mother happens to be the royal. That's what the Swedish royal family is doing.

The royal house name has always changed when the dynasty became extinct in male line. That is why in Britain they had the Tudor, Stuart, Hanover, and Saxe-Coburg and Gotha/Windsor dynasties,

The practice of keeping the house name in female line as was done in the Nerherlands is a fairly new one and at odds with genealogical tradition.

 

[Nice Nofret]

It may be at odds with a patriachialic genealogical tradition - but I hope in the modern world it will be normal for every family that they can choose whose Name it will be for the familiy and or for the kids.

In Sweden it is legal to choose ones name when one marries, so why shouldn't their O'Neills Children have the name Bernadotte?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The royal house name has always changed when the dynasty became extinct in male line. That is why in Britain they had the Tudor, Stuart, Hanover, and Saxe-Coburg and Gotha/Windsor dynasties,

The practice of keeping the house name in female line as was done in the Nerherlands is a fairly new one and at odds with genealogical tradition.

European societies are patrilineal, but societies where genealogical tradition is matrilineal are found in Africa, Asia, and the Americas. Relative to Europe, reigning dynasties have not always changed their names following matrilineal succession (for example, the house laws of the Grimaldi family in the Middle Ages obligated the husband of an heiress to change his family name to Grimaldi).

Anyhow, I concur with Daffodil that it would be impractical.

[...] For Nicholas the reported source is his birth certificate and there is a link to a Swedish language document that was posted on Tumblr.

He was indeed registered as Bernadotte.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forum...weden-june-15-2015-a-38766-7.html#post1792531

His passport, though, allegedly put Bernadotte O'Neill as his surname.

 

[Marengo]

"it is the same with the sons of Princess Margriet of the Netherlands, who became 'van Oranje-Nassau van Vollenhoven'. A last name not transferred to any of the princess' grandd children.

 

[Countessmeout]

The Dutch and now Swedush are the first who have really had to consider, but this is going to be an issue in the years to come.

In history it wasn't a common problem. It was very rare a female came to the throne, or her line inherited. You could go many generations without having to consider changing the name. The Dutch on the other hand had three queens in a row.

Now we have progressed to equal primogeniture in most European countries. And the reality is, there could be a female quite often. So there is two choices. One that the house name changes with every female. Or a female heir keeps her name.

Elizabeth has basically done the second. Her heir is a Windsor and the house will continue as such. The Dutch as well. With Daniel becoming a Bernadotte, it ensures Sweden will be for another generation.

Modern monarchies, modern inheritance, requires modern thinking. The archaic thought ones family should only be traced in the male line is being outgrown. It seems at least with the children of a female heir, it makes most sense they take the family name. The younger children of a monarch it matters less their kids.

 

[Queen Claude]

I think that another factor in keeping the same name has to do with the situation that came about in World War I with the both the British and Belgian houses having German names and Britain and Belgium being at war with Germany, so it seems like the reluctance to change the name is also due to the possibility that bad relations with ensue and royal families will have challenges because of their perceived alien-ness, plus I think that going forward an added benefit is having a house name that is quintessentially British, Dutch, Belgian or what have you, although it should be noted that the Swedish royal house name is French.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In history it wasn't a common problem. It was very rare a female came to the throne, or her line inherited. You could go many generations without having to consider changing the name. The Dutch on the other hand had three queens in a row.

Now we have progressed to equal primogeniture in most countries. And the reality is, there could be a female quite often. So there is two choices. One that the house mane changes with every female. Or a female heir keeps her name.

There are no present-day reigning houses in Asia or Africa which follow equal primogeniture.

In Western European history, a further reason that it was an uncommon problem was that most of the earlier royal dynasties did not have names in their day, and were retroactively named more recently.