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  #41  
Old 01-25-2018, 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
And Carl Philip? Sofia should she have been given a title? And their kids? Sweden has done what the UK needs to do, it has actually embraced equal inheritance. Not just that Victoria is heir before her brother, but that sons and daughters are treated equally. If Madeleine's husband and children had no right to her titles, in fairness neither should CP's wife and kids.
Agreed. The good thing about the current Swedish system is the gender equality among the non-heirs. The bad thing is too many HRHs in the future.

I wish they had done something different to the children of both CP and Madeleine, to indicate their future status as representatives of the royal family. When they come of age, Victoria, Daniel, CP and Sofia and Estelle (and Oscar) will all be working. There is no need to have 7 or 8 of the same generation, and most likely they will be looking for a normal job and occasionally attend family events as minor royals.
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  #42  
Old 01-25-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by carina_a View Post
Agreed. The good thing about the current Swedish system is the gender equality among the non-heirs. The bad thing is too many HRHs in the future.

I wish they had done something different to the children of both CP and Madeleine, to indicate their future status as representatives of the royal family. When they come of age, Victoria, Daniel, CP and Sofia and Estelle (and Oscar) will all be working. There is no need to have 7 or 8 of the same generation, and most likely they will be looking for a normal job and occasionally attend family events as minor royals.
The thing is the way it's set up both by the law (or The Courts interpretation of it) and the customs of the Royal family you're either "in" and carry the title "HRH Prince ... of Sweden" or your "out" as plain "Mr Bernadotte".
The monarch, although responsible for the titles of the Royal House, are not allowed to ennoble anyone and if he for instance created the title Prince Bernadotte for the sons of Carl-Philip that could be seen as an act of ennoblement.
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  #43  
Old 01-25-2018, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
This is why I personally dislike the Swedish system. After marriage she should have been Princess Madeleine, Mrs. O'Neil and no titles for their children. No titles no obligation
All things staying the same, Madeleine's children will eventually drop out of the line of succession as they won't be raised in Sweden. Otherwise, even if they move back to Sweden, I don't see CG or Victoria (whoever is the monarch then) asking the government to consent to a marriage of one of Madeleine's children and, in that case, they and their descendants would also drop out of the line of succession according to current law.

In the past, when an HRH Prince of Sweden was removed from the line of succession (like CG's uncles for example), he was also stripped of his title and style, and even required to return his Order of the Seraphim. In the case of Madeleine's children, my guess is that they will eventually get a courtesy title like Prince/Princess [xxx] Bernadotte, but otherwise will no longer be HRHs, or princes/princesses "of Sweden", or dukes/duchesses.

EDIT: According to JR76 above, "Prince [xxx] Bernadotte" is not possible as either one is a prince of the Royal House (hence HRH) or has no title at all (even by courtesy).
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  #44  
Old 01-25-2018, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Expressen's royal commentator Karin Lennmor wrote yesterday at her chronicle
"Learn from your big sister Victoria, Madeleine"
about Madeleine's difficult relationship with Sweden and the Swedes.
Lennmor writes that we still don't need where Madeleine will give birth. The decision is certainly already taken. But for some reason, Madeleine and Chris O'Neill have it hard to tell where it will be. The hospital is never published in advance, but shouldn't Madeleine tell in which country a new member of the royal family will be born?
Lennmor thinks Madeleine chooses to give birth in London. Whatever Madeleine chooses, she is getting criticism from us here at home. If she chooses London, it will be complained that she doesn't prioritize Sweden and is too good to come home. If she gives birth in Stockholm, there are certainly whiners who think she utilizes Swedish health care.
Lennmor writes that Madeleine received criticism because she didn't attend the Nobel Banquet and many raised their eyebrows when she didn't represent the royal house during the Icelandic state visit. Especially because big sister Victoria was ill.
Sadly Madeleine has come on a collision course with Sweden and Swedes. A colleague on another newspaper recently called her for "a Swedish Marie Antoinette", a scandal beauty princess who can never do anything right. To some extent, Lennmor agrees with this.
Madeleine had only 18 work days noted in the court official calendar last year.
- I really want to be with my children when they are small, she told to Expressen, and Lennmor understand that explanation.
It is cruel to call Madeleine "the laziest in the royal house". It is not just children and Netflix-watching which take her time in London, she prepares in the tasks she is doing. She also works part time for Childhood and writes a children's book.
But there must be something that has happened to Madeleine here in Sweden, something that gnaws and rubs her because she doesn't want to live here, work for the apanage, or barely seem to like to belong to the royal house? Where is the sense of duty?
Lennmor thinks that Madeleine should learn from Victoria, who successfully combines the role of a mom for toddlers with the quite numerous representation duties the Crown Princess role entails.
Lennmor writes: Learn from your big sister, Madeleine! Think about moving home to Stockholm permanently. There is no one who believes in this that you have to live in London for Chris's job. He can work just anywhere. I allow you both apanage and that you have free disposal rights at the apartment in the Royal Mews (that is, you do not have to pay a rent).
But be a bit more princess for us! Like the role! And take responsibility for it!
Come on Madeleine, we like you!
KARIN LENNMOR_ Lär av storasyster Victoria, Madeleine _ Karin Lennmor _ Expressen
Is this woman serious? She's inviting Madeleine back to Sweden, yet, at the same time desperately try to show that Madeleine doesn' like her role, has no sense of duty, and how lazy and careless she is So what Madeleine didn't attend during the state visit? Madeleine has reached her last trimester, this pregnancy seem to affect her harder than her first two pregnancies, and I'm sure they also took into consideration that Victoria was ill, i.e. there's some nasty bug going on that Madde could have catched had she come (expectant mothers can not take the usual medicine, so you must avoid catching any nasty bugs!!). No sane woman would jeopardize her unborn baby's and her own life like this!
If they really want Madeleine and her family to come back to Sweden, then perhaps they should start by not writing all kind of crap about them. Just because she's princess, doesn't mean everyone owns her body and soul! And there's one big difference between Madeleine and Victoria - Madeleine is not the future queen, Victoria is and has bigger role to fulfill! Madeleine knows her place and lets her sister shine. That is admirable quality in her.
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  #45  
Old 01-25-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Biri View Post
About whom are you talking about?
They are talking about Prince Bertil , who was the only brother of GG's late father who could still succeed to the throne.
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  #46  
Old 01-25-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by carina_a View Post
I wish they had done something different to the children of both CP and Madeleine, to indicate their future status as representatives of the royal family. When they come of age, Victoria, Daniel, CP and Sofia and Estelle (and Oscar) will all be working. There is no need to have 7 or 8 of the same generation, and most likely they will be looking for a normal job and occasionally attend family events as minor royals.
I agree with the statement in bold, but if the Royal Family has not revised its policy, it will be impossible for Princes Alexander, Gabriel and Nicolas and Princess Leonore to have a corporate job, although it may be possible for them to work for a nonprofit organization.

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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
The court's press release about the policy of the Members of the Royal Family's ownership in companies from May 2014:

Members of the Royal Family may be the owner or co-owner of a commercial company. Nor are there any constitutional obstacles to the royal family to own shares or part of the company. The royal family is however restrictive when it comes to engaging in commercial activities.

The Royal Court's policy on corporate issues is inter alia, that the Royal Family should not:
Be members of the commercial companies' boards
Be ceo or vice ceo
Be full-time employees

Policy kring Kungafamiljens ägande av bolag - Sveriges Kungahus
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
In the mean time they could still work as long as it is part-time (would working for two different organizations half-time also count as full-time?). Interestingly the policy talks about commercial activities and 'corporate issues', so could they work (full time) for a not-for-profit organization?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
The thing is the way it's set up both by the law (or The Courts interpretation of it) and the customs of the Royal family you're either "in" and carry the title "HRH Prince ... of Sweden" or your "out" as plain "Mr Bernadotte".
The monarch, although responsible for the titles of the Royal House, are not allowed to ennoble anyone and if he for instance created the title Prince Bernadotte for the sons of Carl-Philip that could be seen as an act of ennoblement.
The sons of Prince Carl Philip and the children of Princess Madeleine could use Prince/ss ... Bernadotte in the same way as the king's sisters whose marriages were declared unequal used Princess ... Mrs. [last name]. They would be stripped of their HRH and their title of Prince/ss of Sweden, retaining the title of Prince/ss. They already have the surname Bernadotte.
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  #47  
Old 02-09-2018, 01:11 AM
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Expressen writes about the interview Chris has given to swedish magazine King. The interview is large, over 12 pages (with lot of photos I think). The newest issue of King will be on sale from 15th February.
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/kun...e-jag-gnaller/
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  #48  
Old 02-09-2018, 04:40 AM
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^^ the article and some bits of the interview
'Chris talks about marriage to Madeleine: "I'm mad for her''

Being married to the princess Madeleine involves some challenges - but she is the woman that Chris O'Neill loves.

In a unique interview with KING, he tells us how he was a toilet cleaner in his youth, and about the sacrifices he has made being married a princess.

"I whine to Madeleine about that," he told the King magazine, which is in store next week.

''The Royal House's best kept secret".

Chris O'Neill is featured on the cover of the third edition of the KING, released next week.

In a unique meeting, O'Neill tells us about the challenges of being married to Princess Madeleine.

"I've met the woman in my life, the woman I love. But being married to a princess has its challenging sides too . Of course, it has complicated my life, for obvious reasons, he explains in the interview.

For example, during the interview, media attention and fame are mentioned. This can sometimes be difficult to combine with his work in the financial world.

- I have no desire to become any kind of celebrity, nor does that outcome reap any benefits in my profession. It just happens that I'm mad about Madeleine, who is also a princess. But in the end, you learn to take the bad with the good.

Chris O'Neill chose not to be a prince
Chris O'Neill married Princess Madeleine in June 2013. Prior to this he had conversations with the King and Queen and chose to refrain from receiving a title. Instead, he would devote himself to his business, full time.

At the same time Madeleine kept her princess title.

This is not an easy combination, O'Neill said in the interview with King.

"The challenge has been to combine Madeleine's public role, and her charity work with my job, and especially when we lived in New York, this was not the easiest thing. Hence the move to London, which partly had to do with my job, but just as much Madeleine to be closer to Sweden.

However, it also caused some problems for Madeleine, who is engaged in charity work for the World Childhood Foundation, which has a lot of projects in New York.

However, technology has helped her to continue her work. Work which Chris O'Neill says often goes unnoticed.

"It happens that I do read stories in the media and I am angered by the insinuations that she does not really do what she's supposed to as a princess, and it upsets me on her behalf. She sometimes chooses to not bring up her title in what she does, which means that much of her work goes unnoticed, which in turn means that the press rarely draws attention to it. She has made an effort to draw attention to issues because the cause is just, not because of the allurement of her title,'' he says in the interview with KING.


Chris O'Neill discusses his strict father

Chris O'Neill works in the financial world just like his father Paul O'Neill did. In the interview, he tells us how his father was very strict and never allowed him to lie down. Since thirteen years of age he has worked every summer.

"I spent most of my time: building crafts, as a helper on golf courses. I have cleaned bathrooms and scrubbed toilets, he says to King and continues:

"My father had invested in a Florida plant, and for several summers I worked, and I did bit of everything: cleaning jobs, washing golf carts, gardening. I liked it. It's educational, and fun to be part of something.

The interview with Chris O'Neill will be published in the 3rd edition of King and runs over twelve pages. The issue will be in stores on Thursday, February 15th.''

He comes across as very honest, I hope the reaction is positive
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  #49  
Old 02-09-2018, 05:08 AM
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Thanks, Baron Brockdorf

Yes, a most interesting view from Chris O'Neil.

Wonder how the reception will be in Sweden.
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  #50  
Old 02-09-2018, 02:17 PM
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When Niklas Natt och Dag asks what kind of future Chris sees for his children, he answers:
- Good question. The answer is that we don't know, and therefore we take all steps to prepare them for what we could call a normal life. A good education, for starters. We are in queue for schools in London, which we need to do four years in advance, but otherwise we take a year at a time.
The statement, however, should not be interpreted as that the couple has decided to stay in London, says Margareta Thorgren, director of the press department.
- What Chris is referring to at the interview with King magazine is that now they live in England. I have no information about what the couple thinks for further ahead. But it's natural to keep all doors open to either stay in England, as well as move to Sweden, she says, continuing:
- Just like everyone else, it means getting ready to queue to a school in good time to secure a plan.
Chris O'Neills beslut för prinsessan Leonore om Sverige _ Kungligt _ Expressen
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  #51  
Old 02-09-2018, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
When Niklas Natt och Dag asks what kind of future Chris sees for his children, he answers:
- Good question. The answer is that we don't know, and therefore we take all steps to prepare them for what we could call a normal life. A good education, for starters. We are in queue for schools in London, which we need to do four years in advance, but otherwise we take a year at a time.
The statement, however, should not be interpreted as that the couple has decided to stay in London, says Margareta Thorgren, director of the press department.
If that statement doesn't mean that Chris envisages his children being raised in England, I don't know what does.

The Act of Succession doesn't define what being "raised within the realm" means, but most legal experts seem to believe that, in order to remain princes or princesses of Sweden, Madeleine's children will have to move permanently to Sweden by the time they are of school age. Leonore is already three years old. If she has been put on a four-year queue for a school in England, it seems obvious to me that her parents' expectation is that she will still be living in England by the time she is in 1st grade. Honestly, I don't see how to reconcile those plans with the provisions in the Act of Succession.
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  #52  
Old 02-09-2018, 03:40 PM
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Of course they will stay in England. There is no reason for them to give up their life in London. Their children are not important for the line of succession. There are four children in their generation before them - could be five or six in a couple of years. Leonore was born as the spare. Now she's not. I honestly think that the best thing for the family, and especially the children's future, is to stay in London.
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  #53  
Old 02-09-2018, 04:17 PM
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I agree with Xenobia.

I think Chris O'Neil rather meant that they will leave as many career options open for their children as possible. And of course he won't have a clue right now. - It's after all difficult to make predictions. Especially about the future...
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  #54  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:19 PM
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Notwithstanding that the court has not commented on the children's titles, Expressen says that they would be stripped of their royal titles along with their succession rights.
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  #55  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:32 PM
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Leonor, Nicolas and nr 3 might have to be excluded from the line of succession at some point but i really don't think they will be striped of their titles. They have been made Duke and Duchess of swedish landscapes and although it has no practical meaning, it is a huge prestige for the landscapes to have a Royal Duke/Duchess. That's why i'm almost sure that they will never loose their titles.
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  #56  
Old 02-09-2018, 07:58 PM
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What’s the practical difference between children born in America and children born in Sweden?
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  #57  
Old 02-10-2018, 02:31 AM
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I agree with Hans-Rickard about the titles. As far as I understand, they will still be Prince(ss) xx, duke/duchess of xx. They will just not be included in the line of succession.

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What’s the practical difference between children born in America and children born in Sweden?
When it comes to tittle and succession rights: none. But Leonore has dual swedish/american citizenship.
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  #58  
Old 02-10-2018, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
What’s the practical difference between children born in America and children born in Sweden?
Their place of birth has no legal implication. The Act of Succession, in its current version, places four general constraints though on princes/princesses of the Royal House of Sweden:
  1. They must be brought up "within the realm".
  2. They must profess the Evangelical Lutheran faith as adopted by the Church of Sweden.
  3. They cannot marry without the consent of the Swedish government, granted upon request by the King of Sweden.
  4. They cannot become the sovereign of a foreign country without the consent of the King and the Parliament of Sweden.
My understanding is that, if any of the four conditions above is violated, the affected prince or princess loses his/her place in the line of succession. In particular, if conditions (3) or (4) are violated, the Act of Succession also explicitly excludes the descendants of the affected prince or princess from the line of succession.



As I mentioned before, it is not clear what "being brought up within the realm" entails , but, when Princess Leonore was born, the Marshal of the Court, who is similar to the Lord Chamberlain in the UK, said that she would have to live permanently in Sweden from about the age of 6 (i.e. school age), speak Swedish fluently, and get a Swedish secondary school (in the US and Canada, High School) diploma.
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  #59  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Expressen writes about the interview Chris has given to swedish magazine King. The interview is large, over 12 pages (with lot of photos I think). The newest issue of King will be on sale from 15th February.
https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/kun...e-jag-gnaller/
There is a lot of photoshop going on on the cover
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  #60  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
I agree with Hans-Rickard about the titles. As far as I understand, they will still be Prince(ss) xx, duke/duchess of xx. They will just not be included in the line of succession.

When it comes to tittle and succession rights: none. But Leonore has dual swedish/american citizenship.
Her siblings also have American citizenship as their father was physically present in the United States for more than five years.

Quote:
Birth Abroad in Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen and an Alien

A person born abroad in wedlock to a U.S. citizen and an alien acquires U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the person’s birth for the period required by the statute in effect when the person was born (INA 301(g), formerly INA 301(a)(7).) For birth on or after November 14, 1986, the U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years prior to the person’s birth, at least two of which were after the age of fourteen. (...) The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.
https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...rn-Abroad.html



About the titles nothing has become official.
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